s/o: PSA: CC + transfer does not always equal "2+2"

[Arcadia]

6 minutes ago, Lawyer&Mom said:

We are so spoiled in with community college in California.  Clear articulation agreements with UC and CSU *and* $46/unit!  (I remember when it was $13!)

The community college my kids picked for dual enrollment waives tuition fees as well for two years under the California Promise program for first time college students. They also waive tuition fees for high school students if taking two courses or less per quarter. These waivers are regardless of family income.

https://www.cccco.edu/About-Us/Chancellors-Office/Divisions/Educational-Services-and-Support/Student-Service/What-we-do/California-Promise

“As part of the California Promise, colleges can, but not required to, waive enrollment fees for all first-time, full-time students who do not qualify for the California College Promise Grant.”

[shawthorne44]

I don't know if this is still true but something to look into.   Also it would only work for those near a good 4-year University.   

When I was in college at the 4-year university, I took some of basic classes at a nearby community college while also at the University.   The reason was that I didn't want to invest the time/energy into classes worthless to me.   At the community college I was able to take a 'video' class which meant I only had to drive to the community college twice for each class.  Once for each exam.    But I was pleasantly surprised at the cost savings.  Not only was the hourly tuition much lower but they didn't charge any of the stupid student fees or other extras because I was also a student at another university.   That is the key part of the cost savings.   At my 4-year University the other fees were much more expensive than the tuition.   

So, a thought might be to do the second year of CC with some classes at the 4-year, the classes being those at the start of a long chain of required classes.  
 

[JanetC]

I will add that I think the first year, calc-based physics my daughter did at CC was probably better than the equivalent big state u version. She got to do a capstone project which just isn't something those huge lecture classes have resources for. 
Community colleges do vary widely. The best ones offer more than just a lower price tag.

[Soror]

Late to the party here....

I popped in here as ds thinks he wants to do 2 yrs at Tech and then transfer to a 4 yr school. I told him we need to find out a lot more details about what transfers and how exactly it transfers as and how many credits he'll actually have left after 2 yrs.  

My dh has dealt with this extensively as he did 2 yrs locally and transferred to a 4 yr school for an engineering degree. He has extensive multi-page spreadsheets outlining everything. His CC advisor didn't have good info- she recommended he do an AA degree for Engineering but so many of the courses wouldn't have transferred he was better off picking and choosing which classes to take based on his specific degree and what transferred. He also ended up taking some classes at another CC as they offered more higher math classes that would transfer than our local CC (and were half the cost of the uni without the commute). 

Based on dh's experience, I'd add in make sure to check and recheck what something transfers as before taking a class. Dh had to have a Physics class he checked and verified that a class at the CC would transfer as that class as it was listed on their transfer list.  (It was cheaper to take it locally and saved him driving 3 hrs round trip 4 days a week). Lo and behold he finished the semester and it showed as transferred but not as the class he needed. He went to the registrar and yes, they had changed it in the middle of the semester. In the end, he was able to get it to count since it was listed as acceptable when he took the class but it was a headache. He is glad to be past that hassle as the rest of his classes will be taken at the 4 yr college now.

Not applicable to most transfer students but the biggest issue dh has had is advisors being unfamiliar with non-traditional students. His Uni Advisor is entirely oblivious to the fact that he is commuting 3 hrs to and from classes and has a busy FT job on top of college. He needs to consolidate classes on days as much as he can as he has to leave work to take classes and make up those hours later. Because of this he cannot take a FT load (he takes a 3/4 load) and dh has mapped out for the last 5 yrs when every class has been offered days/times/online--- some classes are only offered Fall/Even years and some spring/odd years etc. If he misses a class one year, he might not be able to take it for 2 yrs. So, if one comes in with an odd number of credits or has to spread out their degree like dh they need to be aware of the big picture of the schedule- some things aren't offered every semester, even at the Uni.

 

[Arcadia]

8 hours ago, Soror said:

Late to the party here....

I popped in here as ds thinks he wants to do 2 yrs at Tech and then transfer to a 4 yr school. I told him we need to find out a lot more details about what transfers and how exactly it transfers as and how many credits he'll actually have left after 2 yrs.  

My kids are using dual enrollment as high school. Our main focus is on finishing the general education requirements of our state universities. The student tour guide of the state university we visited confirmed that the general education requirements classes are very large (> 200) and my kids love the small classes ( < 30) at the community college. My kids are good at STEM and weak in humanities so they really need the small class sizes for English and foreign languages. So saving money wasn’t the top priority for us but a nice peak.

[prairiewindmomma]

FWIW, here, the only way to move directly from CC to the BSEE program at the nearby universities with no lag is to do the following:

1. Follow the articulated agreement

2. Year two at the cc, dual enroll and take digital systems and ECE 3 through the university. (At one of the other universities in the area, there's another required class also, but I can't find the paperwork for that from when we did the spreadsheets.) You can still take the bulk of your classes at the community college, paying the community college rates. 

Math isn't the hold up at all here. Neither are the three courses of physics with labs. You can easily knock those out. In fact, there are some really outstanding math instructors at the cc level who do a better job at it than a couple of the university instructors. Some instructors teach at both institutions. You won't be admitted to the electrical engineering program, though, unless you have digital systems and ECE3 under your belt. Signal systems and power systems are in the track for year 3 at both universities and you've got to have those pre-reqs done first. 

On the financial end of things, there's really no free community college here for the straight up middle class homeschooler. Oregon Promise here is based on family financials. It's in the small print, and the EFC amount varies year to year. If you can afford to live in a house here, and it's one you acquired after the year 2000, odds are you don't qualify for Oregon Promise. The only way to be a middle class family and get community college paid for is to do it through a charter or the local high school Early College program. Even then, it's not $0. 

[catz]

I am late to this discussion, but our local CC's do have some 2+2 engineering options.  But you have to really know ahead of time that is what you are doing, the sequencing is very specific and tight.  Alot of the teachers involved go back and forth between a 4 year and a CC to teach.  I know a couple students doing the sequence right now.

My kids are doing 2 years of DE.  But I never considered that college credit.  We used it to fill holes in their high school transcript and if some of those credits work as general eds (many did for my oldest) all the better.  It is 100% free in our state for qualifying students and has been great set up for launching independantly to college.  That said, I think people don't always have their ducks in a row when they start and think their child will magically have a degree of some kind at 20.  Sometimes what a students thinks they want to do at 15 doesn't align to their 19 year old self.  

Dual enrollment here is 100% free for qualifying students.  CC in our urban options are free after graduation for students in our metro in families earning less than 70K per year I believe.  They changed this recently, it is now sliding scale for higher incomes I think.  It does not include books but all tuition.  That is also a very specific program with additional counseling and resources available for students hoping to transfer to a 4 year university/college.  

Edited March 17, 2022 by catz