Running Start eligibility date/ dc going to CC too young (long, sorry)

[Beth in SW WA]

If I want Bio, Alg 1 & Latin to count toward ds's high school credits, he will be eligible for our local CC Running Start program as a sophomore. That's too soon!

 

I recently learned that the Running Start clock begins when a student reaches junior standing, according to credits. My son is on track to be a "junior" when he is 15 and that is too soon for him (my baby:)) to go to our local community college, imho. One only gets 2 years of Running Start, w/ the state paying the bill.

 

I'm thinking I will slow down on Bio so I can put it on his transcripts for 9th grade. He was due to finish the text in the spring. Its his toughest class but he doesn't complain.

 

What if he finishes it in the Fall and then we start Chem? Can I ethically put Bio on 9th if he completes it in the Fall of 9th?

 

Any other Washingtonians out there that have had to deal w/ this? I'm not sure what other states require.

 

Thanks!!

[Pamela H in Texas]

hmmmm, that is a mess. Our college doesn't even know (or care) how many credits my daughter has. They COULD have known, but didn't look for more than 3 seconds (tops) at her transcript.

 

Is your son going to have an appropriate number of math and foreign language credits if Algebra I and Latin I don't count for high school? I would figure those are common courses for kids to have from 8th grade and they aren't penalizing all bright kids in the state.

 

Biology is different though. And won't you still have the same issue if you put Biology and Chem for 9th grade? At some point, won't it catch up with you?

 

BTW, my daughter started college at 15 (actually, had done some college even earlier, but we didn't do it for credit). I only wish I had let her start sooner. In her case, that would have been more appropriate. You may have some other reasons you'd rather wait but 15 really isn't too early as many of us on here have found.

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

I personally do not think there is anything to gain in the long run by going to college early. Just my humble opinion.

[Maverick]

Hi Beth,

 

I don't think you need to stress about when the credits show up on his transcript. According to the guidance counselor I have talked to, it is not unusual for kids to have algebra, biology, and other high school classes on their 8th grade transcripts. They can still have junior standing and start Running Start (with 2 full years of eligibility) at 16 or 11th grade, whether they have completed 12 credits or 18 or somewhere in between. Also, you don't have to tell the school superintendent about all their credits (I really don't think this is dishonest). All they want to know is if your kid can handle the work--they are more worried that they have done *enough* than *too much*. As long as your kid is normal junior age and has approx. the amt of credits on their transcript and can pass the COMPASS or ASSET test, that's all that matters. At least that's what I hear from our cc Running Start coordinator. Ask me again next year after ds has done it. :D

[Beth in SW WA]

Thanks, gang. This is helpful.

 

Mav, I'm going to call my local school district and see if I have my facts straight.

 

I met a mom last week whose son had to go at age 14 to CC because he was at junior standing. I obviously need to do more research.

 

Thanks again!!

[NancyL]

I also wanted to caution you because if you only get the two years free, you might want to be able to take a larger load since it is free. However you should also be aware that these grades are part of your permanent college transcript and will follow you throughout your life. When you apply for programs in the future you need to put down all of your post secondary schools, and then have an official transcript sent. (some schools say that if you "neglect" to put down a particular school (say you didn't apply yourself at one school, but then changed schools and went on to get good grades--you still have to include all your schools) This could be considered a violation of the honor code if applicable, and you would be disenrolled from that school if they found out you had "cheated" (note--this isn't really cheating but such is how they look at it)

So you may want to make sure that they have good grades (ie smaller course load) for the future. My dd's friends who did start running start as 16 yo's really weren't prepared for the commitment and this caused problems. -some kids take the liberty too seriously once they are around the other college kids--many who really are goofing off. One friend who was very smart just got in over his head, and then he wasn't proud of his grades since he couldn't get the automatic transfer to the UW. He never went farther than the CC and is now managing a bank branch. (and this kid was very smart) His mom never had gone to college and she let the advisor sign him up for whatever he tested into, and it was too much for a 16 yo. I personally would keep them at home as long as you can since you can monitor their progress. Once they are ready then you can take advantage of the free 2 years.

I wouldn't let my dd1 do running start---at 16 she was too interested in doing things with friends and she wanted to do more "normal teen" activities. (school dances and activities) She thought she was missing out by being home schooled. So she enrolled at the High School for a few classes. (I would have sent her full time for her senior year, but she couldn't get finished in only what the school could offer) So her last 2 years she combined PS with Homeschool. It wasn't easy, but she really wanted to identify with other teens her age.She also became very lackadasical about her studies compared to earlier in high school --thanks to having a boyfriend--- (she changed a lot from age 14 in this way) So no way would have I wanted this permanent record to follow her. (was happy to leave those grades behind!)

So she started fresh when she went off to college. (boyfriend stayed behind) She will graduate this next spring (09) Her other friends still haven't graduated from college (and they had 2 years head start) Some kids enjoyed the CC too much, and when they went to the univ. they were disappointed, and dropped out. I don't mean to be critical but I wanted to mention my experience. The most studious kid can really be influenced by their friends after age 16. Try to have a quality peer group if you can!!! If you can make solid progress in early high school at least they have a good foundation if they get a little crazy as a junior or senior. I should also mention that she did really buckle down when she went to college, because she had a fresh start. Her opportunities to see a lot of other teens helped her. We were gritting our teeth her senior year as she was pushing ALL the rules (like curfew) etc. But I think this helped her move onto to being more mature for college, when she really did have more freedom. HTH

[Beth in SW WA]

Great advice, Nancy. LOTS to think about! My son has a lot of maturing to do before he steps foot into CC. Right now he is GIRL crazy! That will surely be under control at age 16 or 17, right? :)

[Laura in VA]

Great advice, Nancy. LOTS to think about! My son has a lot of maturing to do before he steps foot into CC. Right now he is GIRL crazy! That will surely be under control at age 16 or 17, right? :)

 

 

Certainly, ;).

[Nicole M]

My son began running start this fall, and here in Tacoma they went solely by his Intent to Homeschool form stating that he was in 11th grade and did even ask for a transcript.

 

In fact, it was a bit of a mess, because they did not tell us that they needed the Intent form for him to register, and I had already submitted it to the Superintendent and they did not send back a copy of the stamped form like they have in years past. When I called to ask if they could please fax me a copy with the "received" stamp on it, the woman went on and on about how there were other forms he'd need and gosh, she didn't think she'd saved any of those forms, they just went right into the recycling. Cripes.

 

So my experience is that the community college really doesn't care that much about your child's academic background, just the right grade number on your intent form.

[K-FL]

I recently learned that the Running Start clock begins when a student reaches junior standing, according to credits. My son is on track to be a "junior" when he is 15 and that is too soon for him (my baby:)) to go to our local community college, imho. One only gets 2 years of Running Start, w/ the state paying the bill.

 

 

 

Here in FL (for what it's worth) dc can start the program after they've finished 9th grade & can test into the college classes (either SAT/ACT or their placement test.) My oldest dd started high school classes at 12 so by the end of her peers' 9th grade year, she was a senior. Now while there's nothing in the Fl rules re: credits taken in hs, they just cared what her scores were & that she was past "9th grade." She did start classes at 15yo & it's been fabulous for us. Granted, our cc is tiny & a student/teacher ratio of 7/1 is common! HTH :)

[EKS]

I had heard that the cc system here in WA is a bit of a problem for homeschoolers. I may have this totally wrong. This is what I heard. You have to have junior standing at a high school, not homeschool credit, to be admitted to a cc before age 18 *and* in order to get Running Start funds you need to be enrolled in a public high school. So what this means is that homeschoolers with homeschool credit cannot attend cc until age 18 even if they want to pay themselves.

 

Again, I may have this totally wrong. I'd be interested to know what you find out.

[Nicole M]

I had heard that the cc system here in WA is a bit of a problem for homeschoolers. I may have this totally wrong. This is what I heard. You have to have junior standing at a high school, not homeschool credit, to be admitted to a cc before age 18 *and* in order to get Running Start funds you need to be enrolled in a public high school. So what this means is that homeschoolers with homeschool credit cannot attend cc until age 18 even if they want to pay themselves.

 

Again, I may have this totally wrong. I'd be interested to know what you find out.

 

The first part is right. All they care about is junior standing. And heck, you can get that if you simply put "grade 11" on your Intent form. But no, you don't have to be enrolled in PHS, in our experience. You do have to tell them which district you're technically in, however.

[Moni]

What if he finishes it in the Fall and then we start Chem? Can I ethically put Bio on 9th if he completes it in the Fall of 9th

 

Sure.

You are the School.

"Offer" the courses when you want them to post on the transcript.

He can do (read, study) anything he wants to in addition to his courses (such as pre-read, pre-study his biology class)

When the semester comes that you want to , as The School, "offer" that second semester of Biology, do so.

And award credit instantly on the basis of "prior knowledge."

 

:seeya:

[kate in seattle]

A question I know something about (having two kids in their second year of running start).

 

NEVER put a grade on your declaration of intent - put an age. This gives you much more flexibility for when that clock starts ticking.

 

If you are a 'pure' homeschooler (not associated with a school district/school) you do not have to have any credits on your transcript. They simply have to pass the COMPASS test. I thought this was true of all homeschoolers, but my friends who use the Seattle HRC (and are, thus, partially enrolled in a school) had to have at least 10 credits and pass the competencies on both parts of the COMPASS test (math and reading/writing). My dc only had qualifying reading/writing scores but had no problems registering.

 

The first year we went through our local high school to have the form filled out. This year we are using the local ERAC (Educational r? Administration Center) (district offices). This is where we submit our declaration of intent. The Running Start form is very simple, get it from the Running Start office of the CC, student/parent have to sign and one signature from the district office.

 

Even though my daughter did 4 years of high school at home and my ds did 3 years of high school at home, they were both eligible for 2 years of running Start. Because they did not have enough official (public school/private school) credits to be anything more than a freshman. This is when it is a blessing that our home school credits don't count for much in the public school system. You have until your students are 21 to use up that Running Start eligibility.

 

Also, you need to think of the end from the beginning - where do you think your child will end up - 4 year school? will cc be the end of their formal education? These kinds of questions need to be answered before you automatically jump into the Running Start track. It is not the answer for every homeschooling student. even though it is a great $ saver. PM me - i have lots more to say about cc enrollment now that I have a few years of experience.

 

kate in seattle

Edited December 12, 2008 by kate in seattle
remove repeated sentence

[Nicole M]

NEVER put a grade on your declaration of intent - put an age. This gives you much more flexibility for when that clock starts ticking.

 

kate in seattle

 

Shoot. Now I can't remember what I put on ours! I think just the birthdate. But I do remember the CC gal looking at it and saying, "Oh, yes, he'd be a junior."

 

We found that it was a nightmare getting my son enrolled (lots of misinformation and run-around) but it's been worth the trouble.

[Kimm in WA]

-

[Beth in SW WA]

Thanks, gang. So many different perspectives/angles!

 

Kate, Yes 4-5 years of university ed for my dc. My son wants to go to high school for the social reasons. We want him to attend Running Start to satisfy that desire AND get college credit AND get his feet wet on college.

 

Nicole, thanks for the insight. I'll check on that birthday/grade issue. My sons' DOI is already messed up because I bumped him up a grade after pulling him out of private school last year.

 

IF -- and this is a big IF -- my kids wont get the education at our local community college that compares w/ let's say TPS or Scholars Online or one of the other top online schools, they won't be going to cc for high school. Money savings or not. I'm not sacrificing education for my kids' desire for a social scence.

 

Track my vibe? :)

[kate in seattle]

IF -- and this is a big IF -- my kids wont get the education at our local community college that compares w/ let's say TPS or Scholars Online or one of the other top online schools, they won't be going to cc for high school. Money savings or not. I'm not sacrificing education for my kids' desire for a social scence.

 

Track my vibe? :)

 

You will have to vet the classes your student takes if you want quality at that level. Few, if any, of my children's classes have been that demanding (it seems to me). Also, the bias is QUITE liberal - but that was one reason I kept my kids at home longer till I felt they were more than ready to deal with it.

 

Classes I was happy to have my kids take at CC: languages, lab sciences, math, music theory, foreign policy. In other words, technical type classes where a professor's expertise and lab equipment make a difference in the quality of class.

 

Classes I have been less than happy with: history, literature, "humanaties" "global awareness". I am glad that both of them went to CC with a firm foundation of logical thinking, rhetoric, great books and chronological history and writing.

 

Part of the benefit of CC is for our students to experience class schedules, readng a syllabus, meeting deadlines, etc. I think it is great for homeschool kids to have this for free through Running Start. (Though I know many home school students do just fine going straight from 100% home school to 4 year institution).

 

My next dd is only in 8th grade. I know I will concentrate even more on great books, logic, wriiting, chronological history and public speaking at home. I may have her do less at community college and more of a true "dual" enrollment, maybe taking only 5 or 10 credits at CC and still doing stuff at home. She is a more biddable child than the first two. I would even consider paying for some classes before I start the Running Start clock for her (certainly no more expensive than a good on-line class and you are done much more quickly).

 

Every student, and every family is different.

 

Hope you come to some great answers for you and your son!

 

kate in seattle

[Beth in SW WA]

Thanks, Kate! I appreciate your reminder about the rhetoric, logic & great books and others.

 

Any snow up there yet? :)

[kate in seattle]

there was a small bit last night out in the East Kent/Covington area, but none around here.

 

I guess the proof is in the pudding with classical education. It is not a direct correllation - study great books = smart or insightful or "x" quality. But a steady diet, over three or four years, of great thinkiers and writers, learning to focus on the main argument, being able to develop a thesis and defend it, both orally and in writing, understanding books/ideas/events in their historical context, again and again and again, does make an impact.

 

I think they need to do the cycle at least twice. The logic stage, reading the historical fiction and/or retellings of the great books so they understand plot/character make it easier to appreciate 'the real thing'.

 

Though I am taking a pause in the 4 year cycle to do SL 5 with the two left at home.

 

Keep warm,

Kate