algrebra for young 12 year old

[pjssully]

Looking for a suggestion for Alegbra 1 for a 12 year old. She started Saxon and though she has been getting A's on her tests, she hates it. it has begun to take too long for each lesson and she hates the constant review. She and I talked and she would prefer more of a mastery program. We have VideoText but i am a bit nervous about using this-not sure why. Any opinions?

thanks

pam

[Perry]

We're using Foerster and the Math Without Border DVDs. We're all happy with it.

[Nan in Mass]

There are a number of people on the accellerated board who have done algebra with their 12 year olds. They might have an opinion on which programs work for the young and which don't.

[EKS]

Just this week, my 12 yo finished Jacobs Algebra. He did very well with it.

[Pamela H in Texas]

My daughter was a bit younger than 12, but used Dolciani (older book). Later, we changed to the Lial series. My ds is using Dolciani (newer book) also as that is what K12 uses.

[Maverick]

My younger ds started Algebra at 11, we used Foerster and really liked it. Older ds used Jacobs (at 13) it was fine but I like Foerster better.

[AnnetteB]

I may be risking outrage here, but when our eldest became bored with all the review in Saxon Algebra 2 she started doing the new lesson work and just a few review problems. Her tests were all A's through the rest of the book and her PSAT and SAT scores were excellent.

[Beth in SW WA]

Ds started CD Alg 1 at 12. No problems.

 

Dd 11 will do CD Prealg, and CD Alg 1 at 12.

 

Prof Mosely is a great teacher and explains everything in a way my dc understand.

 

Expensive, but worth it for us. I don't lose any sleep worrying about math.

[Jenny in Florida]

It's online, open access. There is no teacher, but the daily work and practice tests (which we use as regular tests) can be submitted for automatic grading.

 

My guy is 10, 11 in March, and is doing really well with this course.

 

http://www.ucopenaccess.org/

[Moni]

Looking for a suggestion for Alegbra 1 for a 12 year old. She started Saxon

 

Oh, there are the usual suggestions that will be posted here, but then she may end up hating all of them and taking too long with those too.

Why would Saxon Algebra-1 take too long?

Too long for what?

Maybe she actually needs the practice so she can work the problems more quickly.

 

It's not popular on this board but we use Saxon. :lol:

 

I don't know that my son "likes it" (of course he would rather do something else) but "it works" because "his brain works" the problems day in and day out and gets better at it as he goes along.

Maybe it works because he "works" all the problems re-Works all the incorrect ones (himself) until all problems are finally correct.

Maybe it works because "he works" at his own pace of mastery.

 

Doesn't mean it's easy.

Doesn't mean it takes really short to do.

Doesn't mean he likes it.

 

But yeah, Saxon is pretty unpopular on this Board. ;)

 

:seeya:

[Pamela H in Texas]

I agree with Moni, somewhat. If it is taking too long, it's likely due to needing something foundational whether it's maturity or just a bit more of the intermediate math skills.

 

However, in the OP, it was mentioned that part of the problem might have been the spiral. Honestly, when I was a kid, I really liked Saxon. However, my daughter would have HATED Saxon with a passion. That spiral would have been problematic. She really is a mastery and move on person. My son however does better with constant review, so as I'm pulling him out of the virtual academy next month, I'm considering different options for him and Saxon IS on that list.

[bettyandbob]

I'm really liking Videotext for my dd, who just turned 11. We also do Life of Fred Decimals and will move to LOF Algebra later this year. We just started the second module of VT. The second module steps up a bit in abstract thinking. I really like the explanations. The only thing I think the program needs is more practice problems. I don't find we need more problems with every assignment, but once in a while I'd like to reach for an extra practice sheet and I have to make my own. We do LOF once or twice a week and VT the rest of the time.

[Moni]

That spiral would have been problematic.

 

I hear this often enough that is may be a real issue. ;)

Even so, a student could still "do" a Saxon textbook. Many at-school students do when there isn't another option.

 

:)

 

That said, I am fairly convinced the folks change math books from Saxon because the student thinks it's difficult....because then they end up changing again from their 2nd choice to a 3rd choice.

 

Usually the 3rd choice "works" for the student, probably because he's had the first four chapters of algebra three times by then. I think by repeating the first quarter of Algebra-1 three times that probably any textbook would work by then.

It's likely the repetition is what the student needed, not necessarily a different publisher, not that it was that Saxon was incremental (or spiral or whatever it's termed.)

 

It's likely the student could have just repeated chapters in the Saxon (or Chalkdust or Foerster or other publisher) three times and gained that same solid foundation needed for the remainder of the math book, the foundation that was lacking still with the 1st and 2nd publishers.

 

Just a little gentle caution that jumping publishers isn't always a best choice.

:seeya:

Edited December 12, 2008 by Moni

[EKS]

This is interesting. My son did the first half of Jacobs Algebra in 5th grade then hit a wall (maturity, I think, because he couldn't or wouldn't write out the work for the problems) so we did about 50 lessons in Saxon 8/7 and then Module A of VideoText. Then we went back to Jacobs in January of 6th grade and repeated the first half. It worked wonderfully. I was worried that when he got to the new material (which was also quite a bit harder) he would again hit a wall but it never happened. In fact, he seemed to get better and better as the course went on. He finished the final exam just this past week with a 98% and an overall grade of 98% in the course.

 

So, this is my long winded way to say that I think you're absolutely right about the foundation.

[Pamela H in Texas]

Usually the 3rd choice "works" for the student, probably because he's had the first four chapters of algebra three times by then. I think by repeating the first quarter of Algebra-1 three times that probably any textbook would work by then.

It's likely the repetition is what the student needed, not necessarily a different publisher, not that it was that Saxon was incremental (or spiral or whatever it's termed.)

 

I think you're right for most situations :)

 

Actually, I PLANNED my kids would do two Algebra I programs because *I* had to. Though I had done well the first time, I had to take it again when I entered back into public school. I thought it was RIDICULOUS and believed my straight 99s were PROOF that it was unnecessary, but I felt SO much more confident after that.

 

My daughter was only 7 when she started Algebra. We "played" with it and she did beautifully. We did a lot of other things and didn't worry about going linearly too much. I followed it up a couple years later and she went from there. She then played a bit longer and then went to college. She's strong and confident in math.

 

My son is doing just fine with Dolciani currently (88 average). He feels fine about how he's doing. However, when I pull him out of the virtual academy, he'll start over with Algebra (whether I do it in Jan, April or wait til Fall). I haven't decided the program yet. Regardless, the point is that I think he needs to have a solid foundation and feel confident going into Geometry, ALgebra II, PreCalc and Calc if he does so.

 

Now we PLAN on a 2nd Algebra text, but I think you are absolutely right that many kids would just plain benefit from it. And that curriculum hoppers are just benefitting from doing the first several chapters of Algebra a couple/few times.

[angela in ohio]

My 12 yo is using Foerster. We also have a Dolciani book that I pull things from.

[MotherLode]

You could check out ProfB.com; his online materials give a good presentation of the text. It's easy to teach, even for them to teach themselves. His materials are designed to teach algebraic concepts from the beginning (the power books). With the Algebra books, you can jump in at any grade, and the younger the grade, the more relaxed the pace.

 

We've really enjoyed their materials. There are reviews regularly, but not as often as Saxon (the common complaint) and plenty of time to reach mastery on a new concept (the other downfall of Saxon).

 

Let us know your successes!

 

ML

[plimsoll]

My 9yo son hated Saxon because it's boring and repetitive and does not make it easy to move ahead at a faster pace. If math is a problem subject and you require a lot (a really, really lot) of practice, then I think Saxon would be good. We switched to Singapore (better) and later switched to Life of Fred (best). He just started Life of Fred Beginning Algebra and likes it quite a lot.

[AngieW in Texas]

My middle dd started algebra right before her 12th birthday. I had planned for her to use Jacobs, because I had used it with her older sister the previous year, but she thought it looked very intimidating (had used Singapore up to that point). She asked me to see if I could find something else. Kinetic Books had just come out with their Algebra I program and was offering it as a free download, good for one year, so we tried that instead. She enjoyed it, but got very irritated with the instant feedback (she's as Aspie and gets very emotionally attached to her work). She decided to try one chapter of Jacobs.

 

She liked Jacobs okay, but like KB better. However, she really needed to have the periodic break from instant feedback. She ended up doing both programs. She did chapter 1 in KB and then chapter 1 in Jacobs, did chapter 2 in KB, then chapter 2 in Jacobs, ... This continued throughout her entire 7th grade year until she got to chapter 8. That was when she got to exponents in Jacobs before she got to it in KB. That chapter was very frustrating for her in Jacobs, so she decided to switch to using only KB.

 

She's been using KB by itself since May and it's going very well. She can deal with the instant feedback a lot better now. And since the feedback is instant, she doesn't work a whole page of problems incorrectly. She finds out that she's wrong immediately and can either fix it (if she knows what she did wrong) or click on the step button to get the first step (and can keep clicking all the way to the solution if that's what she needs).

 

KB doesn't have the free download anymore. That was a limited-time offer when they first released it. They do have a free trial, but it's only 3 days, so make sure that you are ready to explore the program immediately if you sign up for the free trial.

 

KB covers everything that Jacobs did and goes a little deeper as well. For instance, Jacobs covers solving systems of two equations, KB goes to systems of three equations and optimizing solutions as well.

[Storm Bay]

My dd started Algebra at 11, and the advice I received from the Accellerated Board at the time was Jacob's. Many like it, but it bored my dd to tears. Since we had so much time, we've tried a few things. She liked Lial's, but it needs a teacher, and she likes to learn by reading. She's using an older Dolciani along with Gelfand's, which for us is the perfect mix. She's now a young 13 yo and is redoing Algebra 1 with theory and proofs this time. Before it was more of the plug in the numbers kind of Algebra. With dd's future goals, I felt a good review incorporating the theory and proofs made sense, and she agreed, because she hopes to win a full scholarship so she can leave home for university without incurring debt. She has the potential to win such a scholarship, but so far lacks the academic drive (but she's a young 13, and going through big changes at the moment).

 

I should add that she did 3 levels of Saxon, but I didn't want to do Saxon Algebra--Saxon is definitely not my style of math program, so I'm rather opinionated, although some have had success with it.