one semester, half-credit intro science courses - would this work?

[kristin0713]

My 9th grader is taking biology this year.  She really dislikes science and wants to take as little as possible.  She will probably start out at community college after high school and her current life goal is to become a country singer.  🤷‍♀️  I think she would hate physics and struggle with chemistry if we did them for a year.   So I was wondering if it would work next year for her to do one semester of Intro to Physics, then one semester of Intro to Chemistry (both with labs and lab reports).  Has anyone done that?  Should I just call it Physical Science and give one credit for the year?  Or is this a really bad idea?  I have seen the list of non-traditional sciences and there are great ideas on there, but I do think she needs a year of physical science.  

[Sherry in OH]

Physical science is the typical high school level intro to physics and chemistry.  

[Farrar]

She needs a year of physical science, but for a student who is not college bound, it's fine to do a single physical science credit. I mean, you could do what you're suggesting, but there are literally 9th grade physical science courses from a variety of curriculum sellers out there. If you want something secular, Conceptual Science has a physical science course. A bunch of Christian science curricula have a 9th grade physical science course. Many options.

You could also consider doing something like Guest Hollow's Kitchen Chemistry. Meaty enough for a year and to be considered science, but not a traditional chemistry course.

[Lori D.]

re: Physical Science
That is usually an intro/overview of Chemistry and Physics (now it is more frequently being called "Integrated Physical Science"), and about half the time in public high schools, it is the first in the standard progression of science credits in 9th grade, esp. for future non-science majors, or for students not headed to a 4-year university after college. Physical Science taken min 10th grade runs the risk of looking like a remedial science, or if taken *after* Biology, could look like the student was "coasting". If you do the Physical Science credit in 10th grade, one idea might be to order the transcript by *subject* rather than by *grade/year*, which would de-emphasize the order of when the sciences were taken.

re: science options
Other sciences are acceptable as well -- no need to limit yourselves to the "traditional big 3" of biology, chemistry, physics. As long as the student completes at least 3 high school level science credits, and at least 2 of those credits have labs, the student will still have the minimum requirement for a majority of colleges, should her plan change for the future.
 

6 hours ago, kristin0713 said:

...I have seen the list of non-traditional sciences and there are great ideas on there, but I do think she needs a year of physical science...

Sadly, sometimes it comes down to "What can I get my high school student to actually complete", rather than "I want my high school student to do _____ because I think she needs it."

How likely is she to buck you with doing Physical Science next year? Might it make it virtually impossible to get a 3rd credit of Science done later on? What if next year you did an alternative science topic--or two 0.5 credits of two different alternative science topics--to help get over the "Science hate" of Biology this year, and THEN see about doing Physical Science?  

Just brainstorming, here... 😉 


re: ideas for alternate sciences
Check out PAGE 5 of the big pinned thread "High School Motherlode #2" at the top of the High school Board for some ideas for doing alternative science credits. Perhaps even consider doing a solid 0.5 credit of choice of 4 different sciences to keep it interesting -- added to her 1.0 credit of Biology, that would result in a total of 3 credits from 5 different Science areas. Or, if she is ready for dual enrollment AND WILLING for dual enrollment, check out the Natural Science options at the community college -- a 1 semester course will equal 1 YEAR of high school science, and there may be 2 different courses that would be of more interest (or at least "more tolerable), than the usual line up of high school sciences.

Here are some alternative sciences that DD might find more interesting than the "traditional big 3":
- Astronomy
- Botany/Horticulture
- Ecology
- Environmental Science
- Equine (Horse) Science
- Ornithology (Bird) Science
- Forensic Science
- Geology/Earth Science
- Meteorology (Weather Science)
- Zoology (Animal Science)

BEST of luck, whatever you guys decide! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited January 17, 2021 by Lori D.

[BusyMom5]

My current 10th grader is doing Earth Science by Holt this year, and its been a good choice for her.  She did Biology in 9th, but I didn't think she was ready for the math portion of Chemistry,  so we will do that in 11th grade next year.  Topics in our Earth Science have included Chemistry- how metals are mined from rock, chemical weathering, acid rain, hydrigen-, carbon-cycle, ect. Other topics- plate tectonics, earthquake,  volcanoes,  weather, river systems,  oceans, astronomy.  I'll admit I didn't know if it would be a good choice, but my kids have learned a lot about how the earth works- things theybjust didn't think about before. 

[cbollin]

wanted to share my opinion and story. I noticed you were leaning toward community college right after high school. My youngest is in community college now and it was right after high school. no DE during high school.  She had an unusual science sequence on her transcript (think, coasting or remedial if you will).  Community college here has open admissions so it didn't matter. If it helps you any?  her chemistry labs were primarily kitchen based with foods.  Turns out for her college non major science she will transfer in a non major biology course that she took from arizona state university earned admissions (she was in beta test group with a course they will most likely call Living World on the earned admissions and already passed it and has it on asu transcript).  Oh the irony! ASU is the all uptight university that wants to see that homeschoolers did real labs.  ba ha ha ha hah...  yet they offer virtual option for this course that they give 4 college credits (regionally accredited college credits at that).  ba ha ha ha..  sorry, I just found that funny in light of all the years on this forum that members  share how to deal with the oddball case of proving you did real science labs because of ASU's policy.  Yet they changed policy and have all these online courses. soon when that course is open to general public....  giggle. 

anyway, my youngest.  I decided to have a "integrated physical science" high school credit which was intro to chem and physics in a way similar to what you described.  Then biology.  and 3rd science was conceptual chemistry (used Friendly Chemistry and kitchen labs) as a full year credit.  I know that the community college really didn't care that she did it in the order she did, or that Bio and conceptual chemistry were both listed in the 10th grade year and no science in 11th or 12th.

if the situation were about a student going to highly selective university, it might matter.  glean what you can from our community college case and non competitive approach in course sequence.

 

 

[kristin0713]

18 hours ago, Sherry in OH said:

Physical science is the typical high school level intro to physics and chemistry.  

I guess I thought Physical Science was more general than what I was thinking.  

 

16 hours ago, Farrar said:

You could also consider doing something like Guest Hollow's Kitchen Chemistry.

I thought about this, but what would I call it?  I just feel like it's wrong to call it a high school level chemistry course.  I also thought about combining their Kitchen Chemistry and Conceptual Physics and calling *that* Physical Science for the year.  

14 hours ago, Lori D. said:

How likely is she to buck you with doing Physical Science next year? Might it make it virtually impossible to get a 3rd credit of Science done later on?

When it comes down to it, she will do what I say to do.  She's pretty cooperative with school.  But she has *no* interest in activities that are physics or engineering focused, and I know that a traditional chemistry course would be very hard for her.  That's why I was thinking that half year of each might be more palatable. 

 

14 hours ago, Lori D. said:

What if next year you did an alternative science topic--or two 0.5 credits of two different alternative science topics--to help get over the "Science hate" of Biology this year, and THEN see about doing Physical Science?  

You don't think this would look even more like she was "coasting"? Although going into CC, I'm not sure it will matter?  

 

13 hours ago, BusyMom5 said:

My current 10th grader is doing Earth Science by Holt this year, and its been a good choice for her.

She did Earth Science in 7th grade and didn't like it at all.  She was very excited to study rocks and minerals but quickly realized that was just a fraction of what was in the course. 

 

2 hours ago, cbollin said:

I know that the community college really didn't care that she did it in the order she did, or that Bio and conceptual chemistry were both listed in the 10th grade year and no science in 11th or 12th.

 

This is helpful.  I will probably do her transcript by subject rather than grade level anyway. 

I'm also thinking that with COVID, there will be a lot less questioning of transcripts for kids who went through high school during the years of 2020-2024.

[Lori D.]

8 minutes ago, kristin0713 said:

...You don't think this would look even more like she was "coasting"? Although going into CC, I'm not sure it will matter?  ...

No, I think anything outside of the "traditional 3 sciences" is so outside the box for typical students that colleges are more likely to take note that the student did something unique and find that to be a positive. But since it sounds as though she is unlikely to go to a 4-year university, or will go to a community college first before a 4-year university, then it really doesn't matter what order you do your sciences. 😉 

 

8 minutes ago, kristin0713 said:

...I'm also thinking that with COVID, there will be a lot less questioning of transcripts for kids who went through high school during the years of 2020-2024.

Agree!

Edited January 17, 2021 by Lori D.

[cbollin]

1 hour ago, kristin0713 said:

 

 

I thought about this, but what would I call it?  I just feel like it's wrong to call it a high school level chemistry course. 

...

I'm also thinking that with COVID, there will be a lot less questioning of transcripts for kids who went through high school during the years of 2020-2024.

 

If you're concerned on calling something chemistry, then Conceptual Chemistry with Lab works.  I used that title for a course youngest did using the text Friendly Chemistry mixed with labs from Gourmet Lab: The Scientific Principles Behind Your Favorite Foods.  I used to have this feeling it was wrong to call it high school level on stuff until I realized how flexible high school courses really are for general classes.  "Conceptual" chemistry or physics tends to be less math needed approach. It is legit to do that for high school credit.  and my youngest surprised us a few weeks ago in that she (who has limited speech ability due to autism) starting saying something about "I remember that in chemistry class" as she was hearing something and called out some chemistry facts about it. can't remember exactly what is was but it was about reactions and bonding.  My husband (who holds a phd in chemistry) said "well, that's right." looks at me and says "well, she is a high school graduate so she knows some chemistry."  I really am off track. But all of that to say "Conceptual Chemistry" may be the title you prefer to use on your transcript and that's not wrong for high school.

and with covid.. agreeing.  I don't think I mentioned this part already.  if I did, oops. but with my youngest and community college? because of covid restrictions, we couldn't do ACT or Accuplacer.  Guess what? they used her high school gpa and transcript for placement. She had one class that needed "college level reading" as pre-req or had to take the developmental course.  I was all prepared for it just being take the developmental course because her grades in English 9, 10, 11, 12 were "C"s and I knew it was modified and accommodated due to disability.  overall gpa was higher. But instead, they decided that it was good enough to be placed in the course without a co-requisite developmental course.  and it turns out the course was online with a textbook that had speech to text options and videos, so she didn't need "college level reading for literature" in the first place.  And she did just fine. It was a computer applications course in her technical diploma.    I'm not saying to slack off in high school. I"m saying that when she was in grade 10, I never thought any of this would happen. I thought at best she'd do a Penn Foster career diploma as administrative assistant and that would be a stretch for her. 

what does that have to do with science sequence for you?  nothing.  just saying how weird covid has made everything right now for college and community college.  and if the student of someone random were college prep for 4 year STEM degrees, then ignore the stories about my youngest.  It doesn't apply to you.

[Farrar]

In the end, one of the big benefits of knowing that a student is headed right to community college is that beyond checking the box, it literally does not matter what they do. You're free to coast when they need to, explore a passion when it's right, work with them on specific skills that will help them succeed long term but aren't traditional school focuses... As long as you check off those basic credits in some form, the order, the rigor, the style... absolutely nothing matters. No one cares if they "coasted" or not. So you're free to focus on what's right for your student just like in 4th grade or something. For families with a student they know with 99%+ certainty is not applying to selective colleges (by which I just mean schools that don't take all students), then this is a huge benefit that I see some families really eschewing or handwringing over and it's just really unnecessary. Open admissions means open admissions. 

[ieta_cassiopeia]

One option would be to do a little bit of several sciences and call the course Integrated Science. If one of them surprises both of you by exciting dd,  then you can take note and study it in more depth later. If not, you can do Integrated Science 10th, 11th and 12th and most likely, no-one will bat an eyelid (a fair number of schools do this for all their students, even those who later major in a specific science).