lewelma Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/123114127/election-2020-why-you-cant-see-any-election-coverage-right-now The NZ election is today! But there is a news blackout from midnight to 7pm today. All election posters and billboards had to be down by midnight. You are not allowed to influence the vote today. More than half of eligible voters have already voted, including me! There were 5 polling stations open in my area that you could walk in during business hours and vote early. We are having an election party tonight! 17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted October 16, 2020 Author Share Posted October 16, 2020 We voted for 1) Our parliament member 2) The Party we wanted (we have an MMP system, so there are "list members", who aren't voted in directly, but get in based on the party vote) 3) Referendum: To legalize and control recreational marijuana 4) Referendum: To legalize the right to die (terminal illness with 6 months to live, plus uncontrollable pain) That was all that was on the ballot. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 18 minutes ago, lewelma said: We voted for 1) Our parliament member 2) The Party we wanted (we have an MMP system, so there are "list members", who aren't voted in directly, but get in based on the party vote) 3) Referendum: To legalize and control recreational marijuana 4) Referendum: To legalize the right to die (terminal illness with 6 months to live, plus uncontrollable pain) That was all that was on the ballot. Is that typical or is it unusually small ballot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted October 16, 2020 Author Share Posted October 16, 2020 Just now, Pen said: Is that typical or is it unusually small ballot? We usually don't have the referendums. So it was a large ballot for NZ. 🙂 We vote in the American election too, so I know what a large ballot looks like!!! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted October 17, 2020 Author Share Posted October 17, 2020 57% of eligible voters voted before election day! 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, Pen said: Is that typical or is it unusually small ballot? UK ballots are usually even smaller. In a general election, I usually just vote for my local member of Parliament. Most local officials are civil servants , not elected. Edited October 17, 2020 by Laura Corin 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted October 17, 2020 Author Share Posted October 17, 2020 (edited) Labour has clearly won, but it is touch an go as to whether Labour (Ardern's party) can rule without a coalition. They are right at 50% with overseas votes due in the next 2 weeks. If they can rule without the Greens, it will be the first time since MMP was started 30 years ago, that a single party will hold all the power. Now we wait. In 2 weeks we will know the final results. No news on the referendums as they are counted separately. Edited October 17, 2020 by lewelma 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 I like that you do election news blackout. Wish the US would be smart like that. I’m so nervous on what might happen on/shortly after election day here, it knots my stomach if I think about it too much. I think it would be good if we had a blackout of X number of hours, maybe even 24 hours. Im sure that would never happen here; people would just use SM to try to disseminate election news. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 3 hours ago, lewelma said: Labour has clearly won, but it is touch an go as to whether Labour (Ardern's party) can rule without a coalition. They are right at 50% with overseas votes due in the next 2 weeks. If they can rule without the Greens, it will be the first time since MMP was started 30 years ago, that a single party will hold all the power. Now we wait. In 2 weeks we will know the final results. No news on the referendums as they are counted separately. The second news item on my news feed said that Ardern won in a “landslide” — making it sound like she gets voted for directly. But I didn’t think it worked that way. Could you explain how it actually does work in terms of if people in NZ want a particular PM to continue, are they voting for that person? Or that person’s Party? Or both? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassenach Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 4 hours ago, Quill said: I like that you do election news blackout. Wish the US would be smart like that. I’m so nervous on what might happen on/shortly after election day here, it knots my stomach if I think about it too much. I think it would be good if we had a blackout of X number of hours, maybe even 24 hours. Im sure that would never happen here; people would just use SM to try to disseminate election news. I could go for a blackout starting now. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Pen said: The second news item on my news feed said that Ardern won in a “landslide” — making it sound like she gets voted for directly. But I didn’t think it worked that way. Could you explain how it actually does work in terms of if people in NZ want a particular PM to continue, are they voting for that person? Or that person’s Party? Or both? In a parliamentary system, the party that has support from enough members of Parliament governs, and the leader of that party is the PM. Ardern's party has won more than 50 percent of the seats, so can govern without coalition partners. That's a landslide. Edited October 17, 2020 by Laura Corin 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Pen said: The second news item on my news feed said that Ardern won in a “landslide” — making it sound like she gets voted for directly. But I didn’t think it worked that way. Could you explain how it actually does work in terms of if people in NZ want a particular PM to continue, are they voting for that person? Or that person’s Party? Or both? Just adding to what Laura said... in the US, we tend to focus a lot more on local and individual politicians and elect them based on their own identities - it's not uncommon for people to vote split ticket here, for example. But that's not a thing in a parliamentary system at the national level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 I tried to find what actual NZ ballots might look like and images I found show fruit pictures beside party and electorate names - is that real or some phony web thing? 9 minutes ago, Farrar said: Just adding to what Laura said... in the US, we tend to focus a lot more on local and individual politicians and elect them based on their own identities - it's not uncommon for people to vote split ticket here, for example. But that's not a thing in a parliamentary system at the national level. It looks possible though in the images I found - if they are similar to reality - if the Party chosen on left side and the person chosen on right side of ballot is not from the Party chosen. It looked like in theory a local representative could be chosen for each area of NZ who never fits the Party chosen... Does that mean there are a lot more total Members of Parliament who are there from being appointed by the Parties which get votes than there are representatives who were voted for by name? wait—are the people voted for by name even part of the Parliament? Or something else entirely ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted October 17, 2020 Author Share Posted October 17, 2020 3 hours ago, Pen said: I tried to find what actual NZ ballots might look like and images I found show fruit pictures beside party and electorate names - is that real or some phony web thing? It looks possible though in the images I found - if they are similar to reality - if the Party chosen on left side and the person chosen on right side of ballot is not from the Party chosen. It looked like in theory a local representative could be chosen for each area of NZ who never fits the Party chosen... Does that mean there are a lot more total Members of Parliament who are there from being appointed by the Parties which get votes than there are representatives who were voted for by name? wait—are the people voted for by name even part of the Parliament? Or something else entirely ? NZ voted by referendum 30 years ago to switch to an MMP system which makes the parliament proportional to the parties voted for. We have TWO votes: one for the person we want to represent our district, and 1 for the party we want to represent us in the parliament. Electorate MPs: This is like a standard US election. Candidates run against each other and whoever gets >50% wins and gets into parliament. 70 MPs out of 120 total are electorate MPs. List MPs: The remaining 50 MPs out of 120 are list MPs. We don't vote for them directly. The parties rank the people they want to get in. Then our second vote, the party vote, determines who gets in. They consider how many electorate MPs have been chosen from each party, and then top up the MPs with those from the lists so that each party is represented proportionally based on the % of the party vote they won. So since Labour won 50% of the vote, they get 50% of the MPs. But then all the smaller parties also get MPs. So the Greens got 8% of the votes so they get 8% of the MPs. This means that smaller parties are represented in Parliament, which obviously does NOT happen in the American system. Two more details: 1) the party must reach 5% to get represented in parliament. So there were like 20 parties that got party votes, but will get no representation. This is why you will see on the news that Labour won 49.1% of the party votes, but will get about 64 out of 120 MPs. They have to divvy up the percentage of party votes that don't go to any party. 2) Sometimes the only way to get the percentage correct is to go above 120 MPs. 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted October 17, 2020 Author Share Posted October 17, 2020 (edited) From my point of view, the best way to describe the effect this system has on our politics compared to America is that coalitions here are built *after* the election rather than being embedded in the parties like in the USA. In America, the parties always talk about being big umbrellas, bringing together large very different groups of people. So the Democrats have the progressives, the environmentalists, the unions, etc. And the Republicans have the rural vote, the christian conservatives, the pro business lobby, etc. This does shift in America over the decades, but it is hidden within the party. When Americans vote for a party, it is a mixture of what they want and don't want. In NZ, all these different groups form their own parties and the coalitions form after the election. We have a green party, and a christian conservative party, and a libertarian party, and they get into Parliament as minority parties. Then they are courted by the larger parties to form a 'government' - a group of MPs who have more than half of the seats. The impact of this is 2 fold as I see it: 1) transparency. We are clear on the coalitions built and the impact of them on the policies made. 2) fluidity of coalitions: The coalitions do not always form in the same way. This means that parties have to work with other parties that they don't usually choose to work with. This requires different types of compromise. Edited October 17, 2020 by lewelma 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted October 17, 2020 Author Share Posted October 17, 2020 3 hours ago, Pen said: I tried to find what actual NZ ballots might look like and images I found show fruit pictures beside party and electorate names - is that real or some phony web thing? haha. I just went to see the images. No, we don't have fruit next to people's names. But Yes, each party gets to put their colored symbol next to their name. So in America you would have a donkey and an elephant next to the names based on party, or whatever image the party chose to use. The ballot is as colorful and as simple as the images you are seeing. In the past, we voted with a pink magic marker - one tick party vote, one tick electorate MP. They chose PINK because no party uses this color currently. But this year, they didn't want everyone using the same marker because of covid, so we each got our own pen which they then washed before passing it out again. I was very sad that we didn't get the pink marker. That always gave me the giggles. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted October 17, 2020 Author Share Posted October 17, 2020 3 hours ago, Pen said: It looks possible though in the images I found - if they are similar to reality - if the Party chosen on left side and the person chosen on right side of ballot is not from the Party chosen. I voted for an MP from one party, and gave my party vote to a different party. You don't have to align them. You can be strategic. So I really like my electorate MP, but I wanted the other party represented in parliament 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted October 17, 2020 Author Share Posted October 17, 2020 7 hours ago, Pen said: The second news item on my news feed said that Ardern won in a “landslide” — making it sound like she gets voted for directly. But I didn’t think it worked that way. Could you explain how it actually does work in terms of if people in NZ want a particular PM to continue, are they voting for that person? Or that person’s Party? Or both? She was directly voted in by her district. She is chosen by her party to be its leader, but the party could change its mind if it wanted to. She is equivalent to Mitch Mcconnell if the US did not have the House or the president. NZ has one chamber of 120 people, she is the leader of the party in power. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drama Llama Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 23 minutes ago, lewelma said: haha. I just went to see the images. No, we don't have fruit next to people's names. But Yes, each party gets to put their colored symbol next to their name. So in America you would have a donkey and an elephant next to the names based on party, or whatever image the party chose to use. The ballot is as colorful and as simple as the images you are seeing. In the past, we voted with a pink magic marker - one tick party vote, one tick electorate MP. They chose PINK because no party uses this color currently. But this year, they didn't want everyone using the same marker because of covid, so we each got our own pen which they then washed before passing it out again. I was very sad that we didn't get the pink marker. That always gave me the giggles. Why couldn't they get a bunch of pink magic markers and wash them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted October 17, 2020 Author Share Posted October 17, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, BaseballandHockey said: Why couldn't they get a bunch of pink magic markers and wash them? haha. I'm guessing they got a deal on cases and cases of Bic pens. Way cheaper than cases and cases of pink magic markers. 🙂 We are talking like 3 million markers if everyone gets one. That is a LOT of pink magic markers! In previous elections, the pink magic markers were on a little string at each booth, so you could not take them. But everyone touched them. This year, they asked if we had our own pen (oops, didn't think to bring one), and if you didn't they gave each of us a Bic pen to use and then there was a box to put them in when we were done. I'm not sure how you would wash them, my guess is that they threw them away. I missed the pink. Edited October 17, 2020 by lewelma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 5 hours ago, sassenach said: I could go for a blackout starting now. Four years ago I did my own news blackout one month before the election when I saw the handwriting on the wall. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pen Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 1 hour ago, lewelma said: haha. I'm guessing they got a deal on cases and cases of Bic pens. Way cheaper than cases and cases of pink magic markers. 🙂 We are talking like 3 million markers if everyone gets one. That is a LOT of pink magic markers! In previous elections, the pink magic markers were on a little string at each booth, so you could not take them. But everyone touched them. This year, they asked if we had our own pen (oops, didn't think to bring one), and if you didn't they gave each of us a Bic pen to use and then there was a box to put them in when we were done. I'm not sure how you would wash them, my guess is that they threw them away. I missed the pink. Pink does sound fun! I would think letting pens sit for a couple of weeks and then any basic group object disinfection method like sunning them on each side , or an H2O2 mist or a disinfectant wipe ? would probably make them pretty safe especially given close to no cases in NZ or maybe they will be thrown away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 I enjoyed reading this. Truly very interesting how other places handle things. I voted Friday partly because I wanted to step away from the drama. Now I don't have to watch election news until the evening of Election Day. 😄 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted October 18, 2020 Author Share Posted October 18, 2020 We are dual citizens, so can vote in both elections. The ballots are very different! Looks like over 80% of the electorate voted which is slightly higher than in previous years, and obviously much higher than in the USA. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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