Home canning issues

[skimomma]

I am a victim of the Covid canners.  I can a LOT of food annually but apparently I was living under a rock and had no idea there was a global run on canning supplies due to Covid.  I  was able to scrape together the bear minimum number of lids I need between what I had leftover and what I could "borrow" from fellow local canners.  All this to say, every single lid I have is precious.

Because I have a hodgepodge of collected lids of questionable age and prior storage, I am working with some lids I have never used before.  About half are my usual Ball or Kerr lids.  Those have been working fine, even the ones that appear to be pretty old, but I have used those up.  Then I have several boxes of Golden Harvest lids which I am told are made in the same Kerr factory in the US and appear to be new.  I also have some Tattler re-usable lids.  

I have had zero luck with the Tattlers.  I have tried them on several different foods, water and pressure bath.  I followed the directions, watched videos, interrogated a friend that swears by them....  I cannot get any to work.  Anyone here ever have bad luck with these?  I need to know this is not just me. In theory, I LOVE the idea of having reusable lids....if I could get them to seal!

What about Golden Harvest?  Anyone use these?  I am getting about 50% seal rate on them.  Before I dismiss the lids, it is important to mention here that by the time, I resorted to these, I was down to my "problem" jars....which is my real question here.

So, the real question:  Do any of you find that a certain type of jar tends to seal less successfully for you than others?  My problem jar type is quart sized regular mouth jars.  They make up about half of my jar stock and are my preferred jar type as hey fit perfectly in my canned good storage space.  They have a significantly lower seal rate for both water and pressure canning.  Most will seal upon processing for a second or third time.  I have about 100 of them and they are mostly hand-me-downs from my MIL.  They vary in brand.  I have discarded any that have rough or chipped rims.  I am wondering if there is something specific to the shape/volume of quart-regular mouth jars that make them more problematic.  Anyone know or have this experience?  Any tricks I can try?  More or less head space?  More or less ring tightening?  

I have 80# of tomatoes sitting in my garage and all I have left is these "problem" jars and a rapidly depleting collection of "problem" or "maybe-problem" lids.  If there is anything I can do to up my seal rate, I need to try it or else my family is going to be eating nothing but fresh tomatoes in very large quantities for the next week or two.

[Ausmumof3]

My fam just used recycled jam jars etc now.  They used to use all the proper preserving jars but couldn’t get a good size and ended up switching.  Very rarely and issues with sealing.  
 

I don’t know much about canning so there may be reasons why that’s a bad idea but they’re all still healthy and alive.

[RootAnn]

We stock to Ball & Kerr, so I can't help with your issue with the reusables. Can I send you some quart, regular mouth lids? How soon do you need them?  

[cjzimmer1]

I only use regular quart jars.  My only problem jars have been really old canning jars.  The glass (at least on the neck/rim) seems to be thicker than the more modern ones and I don't have good luck getting them to seal. I know they say that modern lids use less of the rubber/sealing compound (which is why you can't reuse them) so my theory is there isn't enough to deal with the older jars that have a thicker rim and thus might need more sealing compound.  But that's just my guess. 

I've always been intrigued by the Tattlers but have never tried them.  I also haven't used the Golden Harvest, I bought Empire one year and while they sealed, most of them rusted during storage, since then I've never bought anything but Kerr or Ball.

Sorry you're having such difficulties. It's been a such a rough year already that I know the frustration of having yet another thing to deal with.  I had to abandon some of my tomatoes  in the garden because I just couldn't deal with any more.  As it is I still have a couple of bushel on my counter that we will be eating this week. 

[Miss Tick]

I've used Golden Harvest. It was the brand they had at Big Lots! (cheap, overstock place) when I started canning. I've never noticed a significant difference in sealing percentage, but it has been years since I canned the volume you are talking about. My problem has been jars breaking during processing. Argh! I've never even heard of resealables, and I'm sorry to hear they aren't working.

Perhaps cook everything down to tomato paste - less volume, fewer jars...

[Beth S]

I use Walmart generic canning lids, & reuse those in perfect condition.
Our WM (rural, & our canning aisle was "ransacked" as of yesterday) has Ball lids in stock for $2+. 
FWIW, I shop at a tourist-location WM (where no one cans!) for mustard seed each year.  😉

Amazon sells them for twice the price.
You can "shop" specific WM stores (via Walmart.com pickup), then maybe have a friend go buy them for you?

This seems like a stressful situation, to have to reprocess them.
We usually freeze tomato chunks & eat LOTS of tomato-ingredient meals.
Agreeing with others to cook it all down to thicker paste.

Best wishes!

Edited September 29, 2020 by Beth S

[itsheresomewhere]

I use for kids either Ball or the bulk ones from Lehman’s.  Less than a one percent failure rate over the years for me. 
 

The Tattlers are either loved or hated in my homesteading group.  I am in the  I can’t get these to work no matter what I do group.

[skimomma]

3 hours ago, RootAnn said:

We stock to Ball & Kerr, so I can't help with your issue with the reusables. Can I send you some quart, regular mouth lids? How soon do you need them?  

That is very kind of you!  I do have some coming in the mail from a friend but we live in an area with very slow mail service so I'm not sure the lids will get here before the tomatoes start to get too old.  Otherwise, I'd totally jump on your offer.  You should consider selling them on the black market!

[skimomma]

2 hours ago, cjzimmer1 said:

I only use regular quart jars.  My only problem jars have been really old canning jars.  The glass (at least on the neck/rim) seems to be thicker than the more modern ones and I don't have good luck getting them to seal. I know they say that modern lids use less of the rubber/sealing compound (which is why you can't reuse them) so my theory is there isn't enough to deal with the older jars that have a thicker rim and thus might need more sealing compound.  But that's just my guess. 

 

This is super interesting.  These are my oldest jars and I'm guessing some could be 50+ years old.  I'm going to get out the calipers and check for thickness.  That might just be the cause!  If so, this will solve a huge mystery for me!

[skimomma]

2 hours ago, SusanC said:

 

Perhaps cook everything down to tomato paste - less volume, fewer jars...

This is an option I am considering, for sure!

[skimomma]

1 hour ago, Beth S said:

Amazon sells them for twice the price.

Yep.  And even if you are willing to pay that much, which I was, the delivery dates are waaaay out there.  I did order a larger lot for almost-normal prices off of Amazon just to be able to "pay back" the lids I owe all over town and the estimated delivery date is December.

[skimomma]

1 hour ago, itsheresomewhere said:

 

The Tattlers are either loved or hated in my homesteading group.  I am in the  I can’t get these to work no matter what I do group.

At least it is not just me!  

[amiesmom]

I have used Tattlers in the past (I haven't canned anything in years). I had success with them for the most part, although it seemed like every batch of jars would have 1 that wouldn't seal whereas with the regular Ball or Kerr lids I hardly ever had one not seal.

I don't have any great advice, I remember the directions saying tighten all the way, then loosen a small amount, then tighten when the hard came out and allow to cool.

[73349]

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Edited October 2, 2020 by Carolina Wren

[skimomma]

2 minutes ago, whitehawk said:

Is there anyone near you who would trade regular lids for your Tattlers? (I only use wide-mouth myself, but I think I'm an outlier.)

Can you freeze tomato sauce while you wait for more supplies?

 

I actually borrowed the Tattlers.  So, I am going to return them.  They were new and the person I borrowed them from basically wanted me to test drive them for her and if they worked she planned to use them next year once I was done with them.  The only person I know who uses them successfully uses them exclusively so she does not have any normal ones to trade with.  I was pretty excited to try them as lid prices have been increasing over the recent years and I'd love to save that cash and waste.  But.  I am a Tattler failure.  I got 1 of 12 to seal after multiple attempts.  It really could be my jars.  It is just so odd that my seal rate in general is so low.  I'm pretty exacting in all things so it is not like I am skipping steps or being sloppy.

Thanks for Facebook, I did successfully "harvest" about 100 lids locally from everyone I know who had any to spare but I have for sure tapped out that supply.  And I had about 40 leftover from last year.  I only need another 60 or so and those are coming.  I just need to be patient.  I owe lids all over town!  It never occurred to me to panic-buy lids.  

My freezer is packed full with summer produce and bulk grains but I am quite sure something will work out.  At the very least, I think I can make my tomato sauce and keep it in the fridge/coolers until my package arrives with more lids.

[cjzimmer1]

27 minutes ago, skimomma said:

 

My freezer is packed full with summer produce and bulk grains but I am quite sure something will work out.  At the very least, I think I can make my tomato sauce and keep it in the fridge/coolers until my package arrives with more lids.

If your packages doesn't arrive when expected, I would take the grains out of the freezer and stick the tomatoes in for the time being.  It's not going to hurt the grains.  Also if you haven't considered it, I would look into storing grains into buckets.  I've had very good luck with gamma lids and you could even throw in some oxygen absorbers for good measure if you wish.  

[skimomma]

7 minutes ago, cjzimmer1 said:

Also if you haven't considered it, I would look into storing grains into buckets.  I've had very good luck with gamma lids and you could even throw in some oxygen absorbers for good measure if you wish.  

I have toyed with the bucket idea.  Do you find off-gassing to be a problem?  I have tried storing grains in big rubbermaid bins, more for animal protection than moisture.  We found the grains often tasted/smelled like plastic.  It also did not prevent/contain pantry moths.  A sealable bucket system would be the ticket if there is no smell.  I assume someplace like a Gordon food store would have food grade buckets?  I have a bunch of Subway pickle buckets but try as I might, I cannot get the pickle stink out of the bucket!

[cjzimmer1]

49 minutes ago, skimomma said:

I have toyed with the bucket idea.  Do you find off-gassing to be a problem?  I have tried storing grains in big rubbermaid bins, more for animal protection than moisture.  We found the grains often tasted/smelled like plastic.  It also did not prevent/contain pantry moths.  A sealable bucket system would be the ticket if there is no smell.  I assume someplace like a Gordon food store would have food grade buckets?  I have a bunch of Subway pickle buckets but try as I might, I cannot get the pickle stink out of the bucket!

I just got 3 and 5 gallon buckets from the bakery of local grocery stores.  I've had mine for 10+ years but at the time I would just ask and they would give them to me for free or very low cost (50 cents each).  All of mine were from frosting.  I know what you mean about the smell with rubbermaid but I can't say I've ever had that problem with the buckets, whether its because of the thicker/different material or because they were used, I can't say. I don't think I would use pickle buckets.