lewelma Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 The idea is to silence him forever, no chance at parole. Ever. He will begin his sentence in solitary confinement to protect him from others and others from him. The court did not allow him to broadcast his ideology during the proceedings. And until yesterday I did not even know his name because most of the press here refused to publish it and Jacinda and others refused to use his name. 18 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lb20inblue Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 I wish that type of justice was allowed here in the US, especially for the one responsible of the Charleston Massacre. The idea of not even acknowledging his name really powerful. 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted August 28, 2020 Author Share Posted August 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Seasider too said: The report I heard stated that it’s the harshest penalty NZ laws allow, and that it’s the first time it’s ever been dealt. Is that true? Yes. It will cost the NZ government millions of dollars to store him for his entire life. He could be sent to Australia as he is not a NZ citizen, but rather an Australian citizen. But then we would not be assured how he was handled. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lewelma Posted August 28, 2020 Author Share Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) Here is an example of how he is discussed in our news. Notice he is referred to as the ''Australian national', the 'terrorist,' the 'gunman,' the 'killer,' or the 'prisoner.' Nowhere does his name appear in the article. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/122596740/prime-minister-scott-morrison-willing-to-consider-imprisoning-christchurch-terrorist-in-australia Edited August 28, 2020 by lewelma 7 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amira Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 I loved Jacinda’s statement to the victims and their families. It included the photos of everyone who was killed. Quote Last night I sat down and read some of the statements by those who were injured or lost loved ones on March 15. I probably felt the same as the rest of New Zealand - devastated all over again. This time though, we heard the lasting impact of the terrorist attack that day. The hugs with papa that won’t happen again. The lost support of a partner and best friend. I can’t imagine what it would be like to have an experience of loss like that, let alone share it in front of the person responsible for your pain. To those who have been in that court room, and who have had that experience of such grief, I hope you have felt the arms of New Zealand around you all over again, and that you continue to feel that support and love for the rest of your lives. New Zealand gives me hope in so many ways. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 6 hours ago, Amira said: I loved Jacinda’s statement to the victims and their families. It included the photos of everyone who was killed. New Zealand gives me hope in so many ways. See, this is what I just said in the Sturgis COVID thread. Post names and photos of the victims; it is humanizing. I love the policy of not using the terrorist’s name AND publishing the photos and names of the victims. I wish we could post photos of human beings who die from COVID. We know how powerful that is! People make visuals all the time to bring humanizing weight to crises. Remember the HIV/AIDS quilts? When 9/11 happened, one memory so vivid in my mind was the pictures of people posted on buildings and telephone polls, “Have you seen me?” Families making a last desperate attempt to find their missing loved ones. It broke my heart in pieces. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 On 8/28/2020 at 3:00 PM, lewelma said: Yes. It will cost the NZ government millions of dollars to store him for his entire life. He could be sent to Australia as he is not a NZ citizen, but rather an Australian citizen. But then we would not be assured how he was handled. It seems we don't actually have a legal way to send him back to Aus until he has finished his sentence - which is never. After what happened with the Rainbow Warrior bombers no one would risk it anyway. I don't mind paying for him to sit in a cell for 50 years then be buried in an unmarked grave He can have TV and books etc just not freedom or the ability to damage anyone. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 On 8/28/2020 at 1:31 PM, Seasider too said: The report I heard stated that it’s the harshest penalty NZ laws allow, and that it’s the first time it’s ever been dealt. Is that true? I actually didn't realise we had that sentence still. I thought indeterminate detention (sometimes used for sex offenders) was the worst. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 There’s a bit of discussion in Aus about whether we should be taking him back. We have this thing where we send convicted criminals back to their country of origin (maybe only after they’ve served their sentences) so it seems only fair that it goes the other way and we deal with our own mess. Of course there’s no guarantees we’d actually deal with it appropriately 😬 so I don’t blame NZ for keeping him there 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 18 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said: There’s a bit of discussion in Aus about whether we should be taking him back. We have this thing where we send convicted criminals back to their country of origin (maybe only after they’ve served their sentences) so it seems only fair that it goes the other way and we deal with our own mess. Of course there’s no guarantees we’d actually deal with it appropriately 😬 so I don’t blame NZ for keeping him there That is where the send him back is coming from. Australia is sending a lot of New Zealanders back after they have served prison sentences. Which sounds fair except in many cases the people deported have been in NZ since they were infants and are the product of Australian preschools, schools etc. Their whole family is in Australia and they are being returned to a country they left 20 plus years ago and don't even remember. And they are bring Australian gang culture with them. Australia is welcome to pay for his upkeep though :). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 2 hours ago, kiwik said: That is where the send him back is coming from. Australia is sending a lot of New Zealanders back after they have served prison sentences. Which sounds fair except in many cases the people deported have been in NZ since they were infants and are the product of Australian preschools, schools etc. Their whole family is in Australia and they are being returned to a country they left 20 plus years ago and don't even remember. And they are bring Australian gang culture with them. Australia is welcome to pay for his upkeep though :). Yeah I know there’s a whole lot of Australians that think it’s a ridiculous policy. Kind of ironic considering our history as well ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said: Yeah I know there’s a whole lot of Australians that think it’s a ridiculous policy. Kind of ironic considering our history as well ! well it is a great way to get rid of drug dealers... which is what most of them went to prison for. NZ should send him back AFTER he has finished his prison sentence. Life here is only something like 20 years.... it is ridiculously low 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 5 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said: well it is a great way to get rid of drug dealers... which is what most of them went to prison for. NZ should send him back AFTER he has finished his prison sentence. Life here is only something like 20 years.... it is ridiculously low Well in this case life means just that so we would be sending his body back. I think a quiet cremation is more likely as no one will want to give him more attention. It is a good way to get rid of drug dealers. However if the person spent their formative years in Australia it is passing the buck a bit Of course they may have become drug dealers if they had been raised in NZ too. We don't know that though, only that they weren't raised here, didn't get educated here, didn't join gangs here and didn't deal drugs and get caught here. It is for the politicians to sort out though not us luckily. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 7 hours ago, kiwik said: Well in this case life means just that so we would be sending his body back. I think a quiet cremation is more likely as no one will want to give him more attention. It is a good way to get rid of drug dealers. However if the person spent their formative years in Australia it is passing the buck a bit Of course they may have become drug dealers if they had been raised in NZ too. We don't know that though, only that they weren't raised here, didn't get educated here, didn't join gangs here and didn't deal drugs and get caught here. It is for the politicians to sort out though not us luckily. Yeah I think it was initially aimed at dealing with recent migrants who committed crimes but somehow became much more broad scale to the point of being ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz CA Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 On 8/27/2020 at 1:48 PM, Lb20inblue said: I wish that type of justice was allowed here in the US, especially for the one responsible of the Charleston Massacre. The idea of not even acknowledging his name really powerful. Was just going to post this. I think this was an excellent way to handle it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said: Yeah I think it was initially aimed at dealing with recent migrants who committed crimes but somehow became much more broad scale to the point of being ridiculous. The law has existed for a long time. Any non citizen can be deported if they commit a crime that involves a 12 month or more prison sentence. It is not NZ specific. It has just become more focused in the media lately. Edited August 30, 2020 by Melissa in Australia 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 2 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said: The law has existed for a long time. Any non citizen can be deported if they commit a crime that involves a 12 month or more prison sentence. It is not NZ specific. It has just become more focused in the media lately. Hmm I thought it was a more recent change or maybe it’s just been enforced more aggressively in the last decade to previously. Can’t say I’ve followed it that closely though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 Looks like from what I can quickly google there’s two changes - one in 2014 relating to people applying to permanent residents and one in 2015 applying to dual citizens https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-25/bradley-how-you-could-lose-your-citizenship/6572382 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwik Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 It has become more enforced over the last 5 years or so. I am sure we have it too but Australians are exempt as the are exempt from welfare and medical restrictions that apply to non citizens from other countries. Of course their are way more NZers in Australia than Australians in NZ so the cost isn't as high. Either way Australia deports after the sentence is served and this guy's sentence won't finish until he dies so we can't deport him. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa in Australia Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said: Looks like from what I can quickly google there’s two changes - one in 2014 relating to people applying to permanent residents and one in 2015 applying to dual citizens https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-25/bradley-how-you-could-lose-your-citizenship/6572382 I personaly know someone who was a resident not a citizen and had to go to court for something over 16 years ago. the Barrister told him that if he ended up with a suspended prison sentence of 12 months or even a 12 month good behaviour bond and then breached it , he would have a very high chance of being deported. also a permanent resident, non citizen, if they leave the country, say to go overseas to visit family. If they have had a criminal record they may be denied entry back into Australia Edited August 31, 2020 by Melissa in Australia 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausmumof3 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 53 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said: I personaly know someone who was a resident not a citizen and had to go to court for something over 16 years ago. the Barrister told him that if he ended up with a suspended prison sentence of 12 months or even a 12 month good behaviour bond and then breached it , he would have a very high chance of being deported. also a permanent resident, non citizen, if they leave the country, say to go overseas to visit family. If they have had a criminal record they may be denied entry back into Australia Interesting. I’m assuming other countries must have similar laws as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura Corin Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Ausmumof3 said: Interesting. I’m assuming other countries must have similar laws as well. The UK does 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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