Personal Religious Beliefs vs Greek Myths

[G5052]

When they were younger, it was a Children's Bible (the DK one), and now we use a regular one. So from a young age they were exposed to the gods and idolatry of the Old Testmenet and the contrasts between the Jews, Greeks, and Christians in the New Testament. When we hit the myths, both children (even my younger one who was 5-6 years old) had no problem working out the differences in their minds.

 

If you have a solid foundation of Bible teaching including other gods and idolatry, I don't believe that the Greek and Roman gods will cause a problem.

[AuntPol]

I will confess - I haven't read all 6 pages of this thread yet so I hope i am not repeating what someone else said.

 

First I waited until mine were 7/8. Secondly, we treated the Greek and Roman gods as the "super heroes" of the that era. They know that superman and wonderwoman and batman and spiderman are not real but "pretend". They also understood that today's hero myths are not perfect but each one has a weakness because they are not the real God.

 

So in our family, Mt. Olympus was the ancient version of the Justice League. Only problem was back then people didn't know as much about God as we do so they started worshipping the super heros as if they were God. Even today, people do that by worshipping a politician or a movie star, etc.

[jaysdarlin]

:lol: I like it!

[nmoira]

 

See, if all these are 'just stories' then how do you know that a certain book/teaching is different? I think this is really easy if you're approaching it from an atheist or perhaps just a broadly 'spiritual' perspective because we do treat them all evenly.

It's different, I think, because my children know people who practice the religions I mentioned. We also hang out with pagans and neo-pagans. I know (online "know") some atheists who steadfastly refuse to teach their young children *anything* about Christianity, not because they are afraid of exposure or teachings per se, but rather because it's everywhere around them and, in most places in North America, part of the dominant culture. While I can sympathize, I strongly disagree because I think by hiding it away, it's given even more power from the perspective of the child, as is anything so obviously "not discussed." Edited December 1, 2008 by nmoira
typo

[KarenNC]

It's different, I think, because my children know people who practice the religions I mentioned. We also hand out with pagans and neo-pagans. I know (online "know") some atheists who steadfastly refuse to teach their young children *anything* about Christianity, not because they are afraid of exposure or teachings per se, but rather because it's everywhere around them and, in most places in North America, part of the dominant culture. While I can sympathize, I strongly disagree because I think by hiding it away, it's given even more power from the perspective of the child, as is anything so obviously "not discussed."

 

I've struggled with this over the years myself and I agree with you. We don't have a "blueprint" for raising a child in a minority religion, because we were both raised very Christian so we've muddled through the best we can and in hindsight made some mistakes.

 

I've tried to become very aware of ways in which I was unintentionally treating Christianity as in some way uniquely "other" instead of the same way in which we treat Judaism, Buddhism, etc. In some areas, I realized I was acting just as fearful of Christianity as I was seeing some Christians act of other groups. Overall this has been a bigger problem for my husband than me, as he left Christianity in a different way and at a different point in his life than I did, which left him with more negative feelings he has had to deal with. I realized that we were subliminally giving the message to our daughter that while other religions were okay and interesting to learn about, Christianity was something to be avoided at all costs---not a good message at all or the one we intended.

 

It's hard to walk the fine line when one is not part of the dominant culture--what's too much accommodation vs religious isolationism. I'm very fortunate that my daughter now knows people who are Christian (conservative/liberal, Protestant/Catholic), Buddhist, Jewish, Hindu, various forms of Neopagan, agnostic, atheist, etc. We aren't personally acquainted with anyone Muslim that I know of, but strive to point out positive examples of Muslims to try to help counteract the media images.

 

Yes, she's gotten into some pretty heated religious discussions with other kids already at age 8, but they have been with people she already knew as something other than just their religious label. That helped them come out of it still friends and work harder to respect each other's differences. It also means if she makes a negative remark about "Christians", I can ask if she means her cousins or her grandparents or her best friends---that usually brings her up short and makes her think.

[Lizzie in Ma]

Here's an article I wrote on this subject. It doesn't directly address teaching the myths to very young children, but it does talk about the role of myths in ancient Greek culture.

 

My dd has been exposed to ancient myths since she was very small. They are just stories to her, little different from fairy tales. She has never confused the stories with our religious beliefs, for the simple reason that we don't pray to those gods. By the same token, she has learned about the religious practices of our non-Christian neighbors and friends (including those who do worship those gods) without becoming confused about what we believe. It's really not any more complicated than that.

 

:iagree::iagree:

[Erica in PA]

For me, I disagree with it because every time I read about or hear about this topic it's always in the context of fear: fear about what exposure to someone else's beliefs will do to a child. I just fundamentally disagree with the idea that hearing stories about other religious beliefs will be so confusing to a child.

 

Tara

 

Do you believe that it really matters which faith a child follows when they are an adult? Is it of eternal significance which faith they choose to follow? I believe that it is of incredible eternal significance, so of course I am going to be concerned. Am I operating out of *fear*? No more than a mother who teaches her child to watch out for cars when crossing the street, for example. It's giving guidance that will be for the child's ultimate benefit. But if someone doesn't believe that all that is at sake, I'm sure it's easy to say don't sweat it.

 

I don't know your position on this, Tara, but I have a hunch that many of the people advocating that it wouldn't confuse a very young child to various faiths/explanations of how the world came to be, are also of the perspective that there is no one right answer to these things. I think there's a connection there.

[Erica in PA]

I'd be interested in hearing exactly which statements you consider erroneous and why. My statements are the result of the experiences of my 30+ years as a member of the Christian community in various denominations and extensive study, not random assumptions.

 

 

Really? Have you read some of the other posts in this thread and similar ones?

 

 

I think if one is going to teach about a civilization and never mention their religious system because it is different than one's own, then yes, they are pretending other religions don't or didn't exist.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I have read before that you have a long history of being involved with Christianity, and frankly it is surprising to me because what you describe as your experience has not been mine at all. The way you seem to think that Christians think is not the way I think, or what I hear from my Christian friends, family, or my church. I have read back through this thread, and no one has said what you're claiming Christians say. (examples are in my next paragraph)

 

The way you portray Christians as thinking that "learning that people believe/believed other Gods exist is dangerous," being "so concerned about even the mention of the Gods in the context of an ancient culture damaging their children's faith," giving "the appearance of being incredibly uncertain of the strength of their own religion," and "pretending folks who don't agree with us don't exist and never have"-- that is just not an accurate expression of what I believe. I can think of *one* Christian family that I know who I think some of that might be true of.. and that is out of hundreds that I've known. I am sure you have one or two secular friends out of the hundreds you've known that have some weird, extreme views too. There are some weird people in any group-- but generally speaking, what you are describing is not typical, in my experience, and my circle is probably what you would consider extremely conservative.

 

You do live in a different area than I do, and some of this might be cultural. Maybe there is more of this attitude in your area. However, I also think it's possible that you may be misinterpreting what others have said, as I believe has been done in this thread.

 

As I said before, if someone thinks I am a fear-filled, weak-faithed Christian because I don't think it's in my children's best interest to be immersed in other faiths (ancient or otherwise) before they have any inkling of their own, we will have to agree to disagree. And I have to say, I think such a person would be the one who is extreme, not me.

 

Erica

[Haiku]

Do you believe that it really matters which faith a child follows when they are an adult?

 

Yes, I do, and like people of many other faiths, I believe that mine is the right one.

 

Is it of eternal significance which faith they choose to follow?

Eternal as in, "This is a one-shot deal and if you screw it up now there's no recourse for you, ever"? No. However, I do believe that what my children do and how they believe now will continue to affect them for eons to come.

 

Am I operating out of *fear*? No more than a mother who teaches her child to watch out for cars when crossing the street, for example.

 

I don't see it the same at all. There is empirical, demonstrable, reproducible evidence that fast car+human body=splat. Religious beliefs are not like that. People have to choose to believe religious ideas in a way that they don't for physical facts such as velocity and breakability of bones. That's why I feel that all my guidance for my children amounts to nothing if they ultimately decide that my beliefs are not personally meaningful to them. Do I believe that they are wrong if they reject my beliefs and do I believe that it will negatively impact them? Yes. But I also don't believe that my exposing them to other ideas will be the one thing, or the major cause, of their decision to turn from my beliefs, should they decide that. I think religious beliefs are entirely more complex than that, and, personally, I welcome questioning and doubt as a way to more fully understand, embrace, incorporate, choose, and cherish beliefs. I was exposed to many religions in my life and I chose none of them, until I encountered that one that meant something to me. I also rejected (ultimately) my parents' attempts to raise me to be nonreligious. That's why I believe as I do about exposure to other's beliefs, and to me it seems ... I don't know what the right word is ... perplexing? that parents would think that they somehow control whether or how fervently their children believe. Religion is intensely personal, and to me it seems arrogant to believe that I will be the one who molds my children's religious beliefs. The best I can do for them is provide the exposure. I guess that's why I am not concerned about exposure to differing beliefs.

 

I have a hunch that many of the people advocating that it wouldn't confuse a very young child to various faiths/explanations of how the world came to be, are also of the perspective that there is no one right answer to these things.

I don't believe in a god sitting on high dispensing inflexible answers to everyday matters, but I do believe that there is one "correct" set of guiding principles.

 

Tara

Edited December 1, 2008 by TaraTheLiberator
formatting

[KarenNC]

Yes, I have read before that you have a long history of being involved with Christianity, and frankly it is surprising to me because what you describe as your experience has not been mine at all. The way you seem to think that Christians think is not the way I think, or what I hear from my Christian friends, family, or my church. I have read back through this thread, and no one has said what you're claiming Christians say. (examples are in my next paragraph)

 

The way you portray Christians as thinking that "learning that people believe/believed other Gods exist is dangerous," being "so concerned about even the mention of the Gods in the context of an ancient culture damaging their children's faith," giving "the appearance of being incredibly uncertain of the strength of their own religion," and "pretending folks who don't agree with us don't exist and never have"-- that is just not an accurate expression of what I believe. I can think of *one* Christian family that I know who I think some of that might be true of.. and that is out of hundreds that I've known. I am sure you have one or two secular friends out of the hundreds you've known that have some weird, extreme views too. There are some weird people in any group-- but generally speaking, what you are describing is not typical, in my experience, and my circle is probably what you would consider extremely conservative.

 

You do live in a different area than I do, and some of this might be cultural. Maybe there is more of this attitude in your area. However, I also think it's possible that you may be misinterpreting what others have said, as I believe has been done in this thread.

 

As I said before, if someone thinks I am a fear-filled, weak-faithed Christian because I don't think it's in my children's best interest to be immersed in other faiths (ancient or otherwise) before they have any inkling of their own, we will have to agree to disagree. And I have to say, I think such a person would be the one who is extreme, not me.

 

Erica, you are taking my comments about segments of the Christian community and saying that I apply them to *all* Christians. This is not about "what Christians think," it is about what a specific segment of the Christian community has stated themselves. Yes, I know folks who have said all of them and continue to do so, on these boards and IRL. Search on "Greek mythology" in the threads and you will see that it pops up regularly. I have specifically limited my statement to apply to those folks who have flat out stated that they are concerned that reading Greek myths or encountering even minimally stories from other religions is dangerous to the faith of their children. Given that my extended family is of this mindset and the differing areas of the country in which we live, I am not surprised that I may have encountered it more often than you have. You know one, I know many. That does not make either of our experiences untrue.

 

These folks are a large *part* of my experience with Christianity, but far from the totality of it. I have also been involved with conservative Christians who do not feel this way, moderate Christians, very liberal Christians, etc. I do not paint all of Christianity (or any group) with any single brush and it is not because of this mindset in a subset of Christianity that I am no longer Christian. I also have encountered folks with a similar mindset in Judaism, Neopaganism and even atheism. It's not unique to Christians.

 

You are also exaggerating the position of most folks who have replied when you say it is being advocated that children be "immersed in other faiths before they have any inkling of their own". I have specifically said several times that I understand and agree with the gradual introduction of topics--I've even said I practiced it. I would hardly call reading a few sacred stories "immersed" in anything. If I were to take my child to a Christian church every Sunday, do Bible study regularly, encourage them to pray to the Christian God daily, etc, *that* would be immersion in a faith not our own. Listening to the stories of Abraham, Joseph, Jesus, etc once or even a few times is not immersion.

 

Personally, at 5, I drew the line between my child Christmas caroling in a secular group with general carols (including some religious ones *about* the holiday) and Christmas caroling with the same group with almost entirely extremely personally confessional Christmas carols.

 

I would also be quite surprised if any 5 year old of average understanding raised in even only a somewhat religiously active household could be described as not "having an inkling of their own" faith's beliefs unless your church and family is vastly different than any other with which I am familiar, particularly given the societal reinforcement for Christianity. They certainly would be unlikely to be able to articulate the finer points of theology at that age, but I would be surprised if they couldn't hit the major highlights by 5 or even younger.

 

I don't know your position on this, Tara, but I have a hunch that many of the people advocating that it wouldn't confuse a very young child to various faiths/explanations of how the world came to be, are also of the perspective that there is no one right answer to these things. I think there's a connection there.

 

I'm combining posts here, but as I have specifically said, I, at least, am not of the opinion that "there is no one right answer to these things". My answer is, however, not the same as yours, which is why I have been at pains to discuss it from the perspective of someone who is dealing with the same issues but with Christianity. I would hazard a guess that most of the self-professed Christians who have replied in a similar manner don't think "there is no one right answer to these things" either and may not appreciate your post.

[Erica in PA]

Yes, I do, and like people of many other faiths, I believe that mine is the right one.

 

Eternal as in, "This is a one-shot deal and if you screw it up now there's no recourse for you, ever"? No. However, I do believe that what my children do and how they believe now will continue to affect them for eons to come.

 

 

 

I don't see it the same at all. There is empirical, demonstrable, reproducible evidence that fast car+human body=splat. Religious beliefs are not like that. People have to choose to believe religious ideas in a way that they don't for physical facts such as velocity and breakability of bones. That's why I feel that all my guidance for my children amounts to nothing if they ultimately decide that my beliefs are not personally meaningful to them. Do I believe that they are wrong if they reject my beliefs and do I believe that it will negatively impact them? Yes. But I also don't believe that my exposing them to other ideas will be the one thing, or the major cause, of their decision to turn from my beliefs, should they decide that. I think religious beliefs are entirely more complex than that, and, personally, I welcome questioning and doubt as a way to more fully understand, embrace, incorporate, choose, and cherish beliefs. I was exposed to many religions in my life and I chose none of them, until I encountered that one that meant something to me. I also rejected (ultimately) my parents' attempts to raise me to be nonreligious. That's why I believe as I do about exposure to other's beliefs, and to me it seems ... I don't know what the right word is ... perplexing? that parents would think that they somehow control whether or how fervently their children believe. Religion is intensely personal, and to me it seems arrogant to believe that I will be the one who molds my children's religious beliefs. The best I can do for them is provide the exposure. I guess that's why I am not concerned about exposure to differing beliefs.

 

I don't believe in a god sitting on high dispensing inflexible answers to everyday matters, but I do believe that there is one "correct" set of guiding principles.

 

Tara

 

Uh huh... I actually agree with you on most of that. I asked what I did because I was trying to figure out where you were coming from, because I honestly don't know what you are disagreeing with so fervently. As far as I can tell our only difference is that you might introduce detailed descriptions of other faiths to your child a couple of years earlier than I would? I don't think that's much to disagree about, personally.

[Veritaserum]

Here's an article I wrote on this subject. It doesn't directly address teaching the myths to very young children, but it does talk about the role of myths in ancient Greek culture.

 

My dd has been exposed to ancient myths since she was very small. They are just stories to her, little different from fairy tales. She has never confused the stories with our religious beliefs, for the simple reason that we don't pray to those gods. By the same token, she has learned about the religious practices of our non-Christian neighbors and friends (including those who do worship those gods) without becoming confused about what we believe. It's really not any more complicated than that.

 

:iagree: Honestly, it never occurred to me that my kids would get confused. To them these are just stories, like other fairy tales. :)

[Erica in PA]

I'm going to let this conversation go. Have a good evening!

 

ETA: I didn't mean to sound abrupt here. I just feel that I must not be expressing myself well, and that I don't have the time or attention to express myself better at the moment. I feel like I'm repeating myself, and yet am still not getting my point across. At a certain point it will just be aggravating for both of us to go on, so I'd like to just drop out of the thread at this point, hopefully with no hard feelings!

Edited December 1, 2008 by Erica in PA

[KarenNC]

That's why I feel that all my guidance for my children amounts to nothing if they ultimately decide that my beliefs are not personally meaningful to them.

 

Well said, Tara. I am living proof that all the efforts in the world to control exposure, mold belief, etc may not turn out as one intends. I was intensely immersed in Calvinist Christianity from an extremely young age---in church every time the doors opened--twice on Sunday, daily when there were revivals, hour long devotionals every single night, memorizing reams of Scripture, severe limitation of what I could read/watch/do and with whom I could associate and in a culture that overall supported the overall form of the religion I was being taught. Oddly enough, unlike many raised this way I did not rebel as soon as I was a teen, but continued to try to find some way to remain a Christian into my 30's even though something else had been calling me since I was a child. I just didn't know what it was until much, much later, close to a decade after I left Christianity because I just couldn't continue to say words in which I could not believe. It was never a choice I made because it was in any way "simpler".

 

Until I was almost at the end of my journey I would have laughed at anyone who said that I might ever actually worship the Olympian Gods, but it was ultimately undeniable for me. It's a strange world :001_smile:. There's a story in Judaism about converts being Jewish souls born into Gentile bodies who are finally coming home. Sometimes I think that's the case for many converts to any religion. They will keep searching until they find home.

[hornblower]

:iagree: Honestly, it never occurred to me that my kids would get confused. To them these are just stories, like other fairy tales. :)

 

 

Well, this is I guess where I get a bit fluffed.

 

They're NOT just stories. They were part of a faith, a long lasting, deep, and presumably incredibly meaningful to the people who held those beliefs and to those who neo hellenists who hold those beliefs today.

 

I'm still feeling really inarticulate about this but I think this is the sticky point of it: to do it justice, I don't think you can dismiss these as just stories. And to do comparative religion, I think children need a certain level of maturity.

 

Like I was trying to articulate before, if you're an atheist and ALL the religious stories are 'just stories' then it's easier (though I think it still requires a certain maturity from the child). But if you've decided that one story is not just a story, but the word of God, then it's different, isn't it?

 

And I don't think it has anything to do with exposure to people of different faiths at all. We do know people of various faiths & my kids actually did a comparative religion study through a UU church .....

 

Even as an atheist, I try to not dismiss these as JUST stories. No more than I would dismiss the Bible as JUST a story. There's something disrespectful in that which bothers me....

 

I think I'm still not really nailing this but I do think the OP raised an important issue.

[Veritaserum]

Well, this is I guess where I get a bit fluffed.

 

They're NOT just stories. They were part of a faith, a long lasting, deep, and presumably incredibly meaningful to the people who held those beliefs and to those who neo hellenists who hold those beliefs today.

 

I'm still feeling really inarticulate about this but I think this is the sticky point of it: to do it justice, I don't think you can dismiss these as just stories. And to do comparative religion, I think children need a certain level of maturity.

 

Like I was trying to articulate before, if you're an atheist and ALL the religious stories are 'just stories' then it's easier (though I think it still requires a certain maturity from the child). But if you've decided that one story is not just a story, but the word of God, then it's different, isn't it?

 

And I don't think it has anything to do with exposure to people of different faiths at all. We do know people of various faiths & my kids actually did a comparative religion study through a UU church .....

 

Even as an atheist, I try to not dismiss these as JUST stories. No more than I would dismiss the Bible as JUST a story. There's something disrespectful in that which bothers me....

 

I think I'm still not really nailing this but I do think the OP raised an important issue.

 

I suppose I mispoke about "just stories". I do tell my children that people really believed in these gods, just as we believe in our version of God. We've also discussed Islam, Buddhism, and Judaism in very basic terms (my oldest is only 8, after all). I'm not afraid of discussing other religions or even pointing out the beauty and good in them. I realize my comment sounded dismissive and demeaning, which was not my intent. :)

 

I do hope that my children choose to practice my religion as adults, but I also hope that they do so because they really believe and not because they didn't know there were other options. :)

[hornblower]

I suppose I mispoke about "just stories".

<snipped>

 

Thanks for explaining. :001_smile:

 

p.s. I like your sig line. I was just looking at Austen stuff for a present for my almost 14 yo dd who an Austenphile. I'm thinking of getting her this:

http://t-shirts.cafepress.com/item/womens-dark-tshirt/266447161

[beansprouts]

I haven't read the entire thread. I think there are probably good reasons why ancient cultures worshipped things like the planets, and I look forward to exploring these with my children as they get older:

 

 

There is some evidence that changes caused by orbital resonance between the orbits of Earth and Mars may have been the cause. The recent space age discovery of “orbital resonance” - the tendency of orbits to synchronize on a multiple of one another - has led to a fascinating conjecture that the orbits of the Earth and the Planet Mars were once on resonant orbits of 360 days and 720 days, respectively. A computer analysis has suggested that this could yield orbital interactions that would include a near pass-by on a multiple of 54 years, and that this would occur on either March 25th or October 25th. Such near pass-bys would transfer energy, altering the orbits of each.

 

In near proximity, such pass-bys would be accompanied by meteors, severe land tides, earthquakes, etc., and this would help explain why all the ancient cultures were so terrified by the Planet Mars4 and why calendars tended to reflect either March or October.5 A series of such pass-bys may have accompanied several of the “catastrophes” of ancient history, including the famous “long day of Joshua” and several other Biblical episodes.6

 

www.khouse.org

 

 

[Brenda in FL]

Haven't read any other posts, but here's my two cents.

 

We read D'aulaires Greek myths for the first time when my kids were 4 and 6. I found no problem with reading these stories to them. Since they were 2 years old, they had been doing the shorter catechism in Sunday School - so prefacing the greek myths with "Is there more than one God?" "No, there is only one true God." was just a great way to emphasize once again a biblical/christian worldview.

 

We read Egermeier's Bible Story Book that year as well. I often mention here in these types of discussions, how exciting it was to come to the part where Paul is asked to speak on Mars Hill and I am able to say to the kids - "Look at this - These people who believed in all these false gods - want to know about the one true God! Isn't it exciting how God works."

 

Furthermore, studying ancient history and all the polytheistic cultures really sheds an amazing light on just what it must have been to faith in One God dutring those times - The Ancient Hebrews were the only ones. That's an important contrast that young kids can grasp.

 

Oh - and one last thing - I learned so much that year - so much of the ancient literature is referenced in so much of our literature and language through time. Common phrases, plot lines, etc. have made it into our current culture - and I never recognized it because, I never really studied this before. Its a great intro for our kids into literature.

[Veritaserum]

<snipped>

 

Thanks for explaining. :001_smile:

 

p.s. I like your sig line. I was just looking at Austen stuff for a present for my almost 14 yo dd who an Austenphile. I'm thinking of getting her this:

http://t-shirts.cafepress.com/item/womens-dark-tshirt/266447161

 

Cool shirt! :)

[Apiphobic]

I do sometimes wonder how many centuries it will be before modern religious tenets are relegated to the same status as Egyptian, Norse, Greek, and Roman myths. Will they look back on us as poor, misguided fools who didn't know any better?

[alpidarkomama]

We're orthodox Jews, and I think I'm going to gloss over most of Greek and Roman mythology/religion until the second time through ancient history. Just some general understanding of that they did not have Jewish beliefs in one G-d, and that actually the Greeks and Romans were (most often) enemies of the Jewish people. I want to look at all of history through the lens of torah, but especially in these earliest years (our oldest is 5-1/2).