XP- Jacob's algebra (and separate pre-algebra) questions

[Quercus]

1. We have an old set of Jacob's Algebra & TG. If we use these, can we use the Dr. Callahan videos with them? Or do you have to have the new Masterbooks set for the videos to line up and make sense?
2. What would be a good program to use between Singapore and Jacob's Algebra?

We own College of The Redwoods, Lial, Math Mammoth 7, Mathematics, A Human Endeavor, and Prentice Hall. 

I do not really love any of them, for various reasons. Math Mammoth seems like it would be the best choice, and I really admire that company, but for some reason every time we sit down and look at it, we all feel deflated.

What about AOPS pre-A? I've read that it is kind of separate from the rest of the AOPS high school math series since it was written afterward, and that makes me think it might be an ideal choice for a one-off year of math using the AOPS approach, between different sequences. Singapore elementary and Jacob's high school in this case. What do you think of that sequence? The kids are willing and able. I like having videos we can consult if needed, but that we don't have to watch to do the day's work. If we used it and it was a smashing success, I wouldn't mind continuing with AOPS, but right now I am interested in how it might work if it precedes Jacobs. 

We also might just use Derek Owens. 

Saxon, CLE, TT, MUS, Videotext, Thinkwell, and BJU are not options. But if there's anything else you think might be worth looking into I am all ears. 

 

[MamaSprout]

They should be the same book.

Math Mammoth 7 is PreAlgebra and similar to the Singapore series. Derek Owens PreAlgebra is also good. I like the Prentice Hall math series because of the way it follows examples with problems for the student to do to help cement concepts. If nothing else, it's excellent as a second explanation text if it is the same series that I have.

Russian Math is another good option. I could rummage around my files. I might have chapter 5 answers somewhere. He can be a little slow to respond.

Here is a thread about RM6. It makes me nostalgic for the days before most of the questions here were about where to outsource everything.

[Farrar]

I'm pretty sure the Jacobs text is pretty much unchanged so the Dr. Callahan videos should work, though we didn't use them, so I can't be completely sure.

If you feel your student needs more review of concepts, then I'd find a pre-algebra, but otherwise... Jacobs is pretty gentle to start. I'd just dive in and take it a little slower. Singapore should have well prepared a student to do it.

[MamaSprout]

I agree with Farrar- if you've done Singapore 6. I know some skip 6.

[EKS]

If your student doesn't need a review of arithmetic, then you can jump right in to Jacobs.  It has the prealgebra algebra already there.  If you want a review of arithmetic, DO prealgebra is excellent.  

[kokotg]

Agreeing that skipping pre-algebra is fine. All of mine have started Jacobs in 6th grade after finishing Singapore (Singapore 6 always went very fast for whatever reason) and then gone very slowly through Jacob's Algebra. With my oldest, we flailed around looking for a pre-algebra we liked for a little while first then gave up and went straight to Jacobs....he's in his first year of college, doing great in Calc 3 and planning on majoring in math now, so it worked well! 

[RootAnn]

I would not use AoPS Pre-A & then go back to Jacobs Algebra.

Jacobs Algebra is kinda weird but in a wonderful-for-certain-kids way. It isn't for everyone, of course.

The Masterbooks stuff didn't change the books much. I'm not sure you need the videos though.

[Clear Creek]

The videos were designed to go with the original book and solutions guide. If you go down to the bottom of the page that you linked, there is a free pdf teacher's guide download that has the schedule for the videos, the assigned problem sets from the book, and the tests (and answer keys). Masterbooks split up the problem sets so that you would have to spend more money to buy the whole package; that is the only difference.

[Quercus]

2 hours ago, RootAnn said:

I would not use AoPS Pre-A & then go back to Jacobs Algebra.

 

 I would love to hear your thoughts about this if you are up for sharing!

[Farrar]

I can't speak for Root Ann... but I also think that's an odd sequence. AoPS is really challenging and hard. Jacobs isn't easy exactly, but it certainly is by comparison. All the ways that Jacobs is challenging are just really different from AoPS. I think the student who excels with AoPS in their main sequence starting with Pre-A is a different student who excels with Jacobs. 

[Quercus]

30 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I can't speak for Root Ann... but I also think that's an odd sequence. AoPS is really challenging and hard. Jacobs isn't easy exactly, but it certainly is by comparison. All the ways that Jacobs is challenging are just really different from AoPS. I think the student who excels with AoPS in their main sequence starting with Pre-A is a different student who excels with Jacobs. 

Ah, I see, thanks.

What kind of student would do better with a Jacobs sequence than the AOPS sequence? 

[kokotg]

29 minutes ago, Quercus said:

 

What kind of student would do better with a Jacobs sequence than the AOPS sequence? 

AOPS pre-algebra is one of the one we tried after Singapore...the main one we tried, really. It didn't work well for my very strong in math, but super perfectionist oldest.  He was not a fan of not getting every answer right every time. It's possible it would have been worth it to battle through, but it wasn't something I had the energy for at the time. My 6 year old, who reminds me of my oldest in a lot of ways, is going through Beast Academy now with no problems; had Beast Academy been around when my oldest was the right age, the whole program might have worked well for him. So my experience is that AOPS can be rough for perfectionist kids who are very hard on themselves even if they're excellent at math.  Although he now regularly threatens to drop out college every time he gets a B on an assignment, so it might have been better to work on that particular character trait back in middle school, come to think of it 😂 But he loved Jacobs. Jacobs geometry is when he really started to see himself studying math long term. 

[Farrar]

I think AoPS is generally for kids who either like to struggle through things or are gifted with math. Not to say that all kids in those categories will thrive with it and certainly I've heard of "average" kids who did great with it. But that's the profile.

I think Jacobs is better for a few different sorts of kids. I think it's good for creative thinkers - humanities types or artsy types who don't struggle with math but who also don't always gravitate towards it. I think it's good for kids who like things straightforward and a little pared down to essentials - kids who can get things without a ton of practice. There are plenty of practice problems, but there are two sets at the same level (II and III) and one nice thing about Jacobs is that if a kid gets it and aces the first set, you really don't generally need to do the second. It's slow moving enough that kids who are truly gifted with math might find it too easy.

[Quercus]

This is so helpful! Thank you all so much for taking the time to parse this out with me. 

[RootAnn]

Thanks to the others for chiming in. I think that a kid who successfully completed AoPS Pre-Algebra (even without trying the challenge problems) would feel ... almost insulted starting at the beginning of Jacobs Algebra. JA starts with almost it's own Pre-A so it would seem like going backward.

Jacobs was good for my visual, artsy kid. I wrote Sometimes Jacobs Algebra just blows my mind when my dd#2 was working through it. It might give you some helpful impressions.

[Farrar]

Jacobs is how I would have wanted to learn algebra. I did fine in Algebra I in 8th grade - I had probably the best math teacher I've ever had that year - but it was the teacher and not the text. The text for Jacobs just sings to me. It's beautiful. But... I totally get why it's not right for all kids. However, it worked for both my boys - one who likes math and likes the puzzly aspect but wasn't a good fit for AoPS and one who just likes to get things done, but for him, I think it was that Jacobs meshed so well for me as a teacher that it was the right text for him for that reason. I was able to teach from it more effectively.