Spelling with several children

[countrymum]

We have 4 children.

I have been using All About Spelling (AAS) levels 2 and 3 currently with my 2 school aged children (3rd and 2nd) grade. I like it and it seems to be working fine. Neither can really "spell" much yet but they are young and they do seem to be progressing.

With that in mind, the school day is taking too long. We start around 8:30 and with a short lunch break aren't done till 3 many days. Some of it is dwadling and some is the toddler and baby. 

We do All About Reading(oldest is finished) and RightStart math(which I love) so alot is mama heavy. Handwriting for both and Grammar for (3rd grader) are mostly independent. We do Bible, history, science, spanish, ect together for about 1 to 1.5 hours.

It just seems like an independent spelling might help. I don't have any with dislexia that I know of. They both can read chapter books like Childhood of Famous Americans or Little House in the Big Woods. However, they both mix up b, d, p sometimes bet are improving and sometimes flip words when reading.

Any thoughts On shorter days or spelling???? I'm considering Spelling by Sound and Structure and Building Spelling Skills, I'd even look at an old speller. I'm open to about anything now....

[Miss Tick]

59 minutes ago, countrymum said:

 

Any thoughts On shorter days or spelling???? I'm considering Spelling by Sound and Structure and Building Spelling Skills, I'd even look at an old speller. I'm open to about anything now....

We've used Spelling Power for a while now. It is really a book of spelling lists with implementation guidelines. None of mine are natural spellers, but none have particular problems picking it up, either. What we do for a typical list is I give ds a spelling test, and I make note of what he misses on a Post-It "missed list". Next time he does spelling we repeat that. Occasionally I just test from the missed list. If he isn't learning the words on there by repetition he does something to help - either the 10 step process from the book, or taping his list around the house, or writing the words correctly multiple times. There are a bunch of ideas in the book, we just go for quick and easy. The whole process takes about 15 minutes, and the book starts from the beginning and goes through all the words you need, so no year after year costs.

I've never seen a truly independent spelling program. Spelling needs interaction with an expert to make corrections right away. 

[wendyroo]

Perhaps you could tweak All About Spelling to more closely meet your needs?

I also have four children, grades Pre-K, 1st, 3rd, and 5th.  We have used AAS from the time the eldest was in 1st grade.  The three oldest are now currently in books 2, 3 and 4.

Something we do to keep the program manageable:
- We don't ever use tiles.  Too much time and hassle!!  Instead the kids just work in notebooks, or sometimes on a white board.

- We don't ever use any of the flash cards during lessons.  If a child seems to be having a particularly hard time with a rule or spelling word I will grab that flashcard and stick it on the cork board near the table to review during breakfast, but we don't systematically review the cards.

- We only do spelling lessons 3 days a week.  We alternate that time slot with grammar.

- I keep the lessons short.  As long as we are making progress, I don't really care how fast we are moving, so I break each "Step" up into several pieces.  On the first day we skip any review and jump right into the new material; the child normally ends that day by orally spelling some of the word list, writing some of the word list in his notebook, and then "helps" me add notes to his notebook about what rule was learned and how it was applied in the words he wrote.  Day 2, we review the new rule, flip the page and try writing some more words and perhaps a couple of the dictation sentences.  Day 3, we write the rest of the dictation sentences, and then perhaps backtrack and do the word review from the beginning of the Step...or perhaps flip the page and preview what we will learn next.  Total time: ~10-15 minutes per day.

- One added benefit that I see to slowing down the pace is that over time the program becomes just a bit less challenging.  Spelling is not particularly hard for any of my kids partly because we are working a bit below their true instructional level.  I am a-okay with that - it keeps the lessons short and pleasant.

Wendy

[Syllieann]

I like Spelling by Sound and Structure.  We do AAR and then a Spalding-style spelling to start, but r&s is a decent program to move into once that phonics framework is laid.  It is written in a way that the rules are reinforced and the kids must really interact with the words.  It's way better than most other workbook-style programs.  I also like the vocabulary inclusion.  My 8 and 10 year olds are independent with it.  I spend about 2 minutes each correcting each day and I call out test words and sentences once per week.

[Momto6inIN]

All of wendyroo's suggestions are good ones! We adapt AAS in very similar ways. If you're happy with it as a program and they are progressing, I'd be hesitant to change programs too quickly.

As far as streamlining your day goes ...

When you say you're not done til 3, what does that mean exactly? (1) That you, as the teacher, are still doing something with somebody until 3, but both kids are not doing school that whole time? Or (2) that both kids are working consistently that whole time? Or (3) that they dawdle and don't get done til then even though instructional time is over? Or (4) other scenario that I haven't thought of?

If it's (1) then that might just be the reality of hs'ing with a baby and a toddler and 2 littles who need you for everything 🙂

If it's (2) then yes definitely something can be streamlined because a 3rd and 2nd grader don't need to be doing 6.5 hours of schoolwork a day! But it doesn't sound like that's the case. You listed 1-1.5 hours of together stuff, then approx 1.5-1.75 hours for each kid individually (handwriting and grammar on their own probably max about 20 minutes, math probably 30-45 minutes each, AAR which takes about 20 minutes a day, and AAS which takes about 20 minutes a day). That totals 5.5 hours max of your time, but only about 3 hours for each kid. Is that how it looks in reality for you or is something else happening?

If it's (3) thhen I would just let them know that no screens or outside time or free play will be happening until their schoolwork is done and then let them live with those consequences. My 2nd grader is plenty able to figure out that she doesn't like the impact of dawdling on her play time and adjust her actions accordingly 🙂

If it's (4) then let us know what that is and hopefully we can help!

[lots of little ducklings]

To add to the above:

I combine my kids (6th,5th,and 4th are all doing the same level... hitting right at the 5th grader’s ability). The 6th grader is dyslexic so he benefits from it too, and I just go easy on the 4th grader. 

[Ellie]

I really like Spelling by Sound and Structure...beginning with the fourth grade book. My vote would be not to work on spelling the dc are 9ish, and *then* do SSS. You can correct any spelling errors in their written assignments until then.

[BakersDozen]

I have used A Reason for Spelling since we started schooling our firstborn. I love the layout - predictable, only 2-3 days are needed from me (giving test words/sentences). Kids can knock it out in 5-10 minutes and enjoy the variety of activities plus the independence of working on their own. I don't read the stories - kids can do that on their own. I've used it with as many as 4 levels at once - just line the kids up and give each their words/sentences. Having used it with 11 children thus far I would say I'm mighty pleased with the program.

[countrymum]

The reasons it takes so long are partly me and partly children dwadleing. It can take me time to move from 1 thing to the next with the baby and toddler needing me too. It helps when I have school books and supplies all put and sacked up on the table the night before. It just seems that i have too much to do 1 on 1 with each one. I try to do preschool too about 2-3 timed a week as little guy really likes it. He gets lonely during school time playing by himself. 

Having them move toward independence in a few things means that I can help without them being needed 100% of the time like in AAS. I'm am also not sure whether it's"working" or not. My older child more often than not doesn't remember words. He spells phonetically, but a few weeks later doesn't remember if its pain or pane or payn or sky or skie..... The younger one has a quite visual memory, and I've wondered if studied dictation would help her later...

Really just more thoughts; thanks all

[PeterPan]

6 hours ago, countrymum said:

but a few weeks later doesn't remember if its pain or pane or payn or sky or skie

That's quite a bit of confusion. Their reading sounds like it's coming along, but the spelling isn't going so well. Sometimes spelling issues are the lagging indication of dyslexia. You're using a pretty solid reading program (AAR) that will nail reading for some kids even with a reading disability. I was going to suggest SWR to you, because it's similar methodology (minus the hands-on) that would allow you to combine all your kids in one instruction period. You could load the words to Spelling City or whatever for independent practice. However SWR is not, not, not adequate for dyslexia.

Given the amount of mistakes, personally, I'd do a little screening https://bartonreading.com/students/#ss  (this is a basic screener to see if he has the skills to go into an OG program, NOT a dyslexia test), maybe get his eyes examined by a developmental optometrist, figuring out what's going on there. You're doing a lot of parent intensive stuff, like I did, so maybe he's not getting enough practice. However my dd who wasn't retaining spelling in spite of all our practice turned out to have really horrible VISUAL MEMORY. So you could have one kid with great visual memory and another with say some convergence issues or something going on where the visual memory got glitched. That's why you would see a developmental optometrist.

And if you've wondered if they had dyslexia or something going on, sure they could still flag for it.The test you'd be looking for there is a CTOPP, and sometimes you can get a tutor to administer it inexpensively. Dyslexia is not a vision problem, so again I'd be sorting out why and making sure you're not working harder because of a vision problem or a phonological processing problem or something. I'll also suggest that you tease apart what is dawdling and what is inattention/ADHD. I was pretty used to my dd (and had a lot of bias about what diagnoses meant based on absurd preaching I was under over the years), so we were pretty shocked when dd got an ADHD diagnosis at 11. It was obvious in hindsight, but we were thinking of it so many other ways. Whether you do meds or not is your business, but sometimes getting the right WORDS means you get the right TOOLS and strategies.

[Momto6inIN]

12 hours ago, countrymum said:

The reasons it takes so long are partly me and partly children dwadleing. It can take me time to move from 1 thing to the next with the baby and toddler needing me too. It helps when I have school books and supplies all put and sacked up on the table the night before. It just seems that i have too much to do 1 on 1 with each one. I try to do preschool too about 2-3 timed a week as little guy really likes it. He gets lonely during school time playing by himself. 

Having them move toward independence in a few things means that I can help without them being needed 100% of the time like in AAS. I'm am also not sure whether it's"working" or not. My older child more often than not doesn't remember words. He spells phonetically, but a few weeks later doesn't remember if its pain or pane or payn or sky or skie..... The younger one has a quite visual memory, and I've wondered if studied dictation would help her later...

Really just more thoughts; thanks all

I hear ya on feeling needed all day long and wanting to give more time and attention to younger kids 🙂 The baby here at our house is making juggling all the hats difficult for me as well!

If that's your goal, I actually would work for independence for your 3rd and 2nd grader in subjects other than math or spelling or phonics, perhaps something in your together time? Those language skills are just so so important and need Mom's guidance more so than content areas like history and science, especially in the elementary ages. If it was me, I'd cut Spanish before I'd have them do spelling in their own (and did actually cut Spanish this past year in fact because of constraints on my time).

Good luck figuring it all out!