HSLDA throws CA charter homeschoolers under the bus

[SeaConquest]

The article is filled with inaccuracies, which we are dealing with in letters to the editor, but the worst part IMO is being thrown under the bus by members of the homeschooling community itself. Read the quotes from HSLDA. People should know, when they support this organization, where their money goes. But, I guess we don't matter since we are not "real" homeschoolers.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/education/story/2019-06-15/home-school-charters-let-families-use-state-dollars-to-buy-disneyland-tickets-private-lessons-and-more?fbclid=IwAR3Yz3_Xs4xalpSqUynoXzkNF66GeInP7rc0tja0rQga-jVHTAfspKT1rSw

Edited June 17, 2019 by SeaConquest

[SeaConquest]

You should also know that this hit piece is being run at a time when California charter homeschoolers are presently facing 4 anti-charter bills in the legislature -- bills that could have serious affects to families on this board. 

[moonflower]

That didn't read like a hit piece to me.

[JustEm]

This isn't surprising to me.  I wouldn't imagine that HSLDA would support home school charters.  I'm not a fan of HSLDA and have never considered becoming a member but charter schools are governed by a different set of laws, in most states, than home schooling in general and I wouldn't expect them to have any stake in that game.

[SeaConquest]

Just now, Plum said:

What's ironic is growing up in SoCal, I must have gone to Disneyland at least twice a year starting in middle school through honor roll and band. 

Yup.

[Arcadia]

Unfortunately the news article tallies somewhat with what you said in this thread about Disneyland passes.

 

[Farrar]

The idea that parkour isn't PE is absurd. Like, come on.

It seems to me that there are different issues here. On the one hand, there is corruption in the California charter system. There just is. On the other hand, lots of kids go to Disney through school, especially the education days. And the list of "special" classes don't seem absurd to me at all. And then there's the idea that you can home educate for a lot less. Well, yes, you really can. But it's a lot harder at the high school level. And some kids need that much funding because of special needs.

[SeaConquest]

Just now, hjffkj said:

This isn't surprising to me.  I wouldn't imagine that HSLDA would support home school charters.  I'm not a fan of HSLDA and have never considered becoming a member but charter schools are governed by a different set of laws, in most states, than home schooling in general and I wouldn't expect them to have any stake in that game.

In California, there is homeschooling through your own private school or homeschooling through a public charter. Public charters are more popular today than filing a private school affidavit because of the financial assistance they provide (among other reasons), so that is the majority of homeschoolers in CA (the largest state in the country).

[SeaConquest]

Just now, Arcadia said:

Unfortunately the news article tallies somewhat with what you said in this thread about Disneyland passes.

 

 

Yes, some of it is accurate. There are many inaccuracies and the article is clearly written with bias and loaded language. We have never used funds for such purposes (and it has never been allowed at Sacha's charter), but I am aware of what has gone on at certain charters and the behavior by some parents. 

[JustEm]

9 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

In California, there is homeschooling through your own private school or homeschooling through a public charter. Public charters are more popular today than filing a private school affidavit because of the financial assistance they provide (among other reasons), so that is the majority of homeschoolers in CA (the largest state in the country).

Yes, I understand that.  But it isn't surprising to me at all that HSLDA would consider going through a public charter to be homeschooling and hence the not having a stake in this issue.  Now, i they accept membership from people who use homeschool public charters than they should be fighting for their rights.  I do not know if they are clear on that matter since I've never considered using their services

[HS Mom in NC]

HSLDA has always maintained that it only gets involved in homeschool situations where there are no taxpayer dollars involved.  They aren't throwing anyone under a bus, they simply disagree with you and so do I. They're maintaining a philosophically consistent position of complete autonomy from the public system, which includes public funds.  Do I agree with everything they do?  No, I wish they only dealt with homeschooling laws and nothing else.  Do I agree that it would be a terrible idea to give taxpayer funds to homeschoolers?  Yes.  It blurs the lines which has the potential to create all sorts of legal precedents and legal definitions that in the long run have a worse effect on homeschooling as a whole.  And I do fully support tax credits for homeschoolers?  Yes,  because they aren't taking tax money out of the government coffers, they're crediting taxpayers for the relief they're provided the system (on average $10,000 per kid per year.)  

I have used the public system for homeschoolers at Eagleride in Mesa, AZ.  I knew I was enrolling my kid for extra curricular public school classes.  I have no problem with the legal distinction. I made the distinction when people asked where my kid goes to school. (Public enrichment school for extra curriculars 2 days a week,  homeschooling for core subjects 3 days a week.) Whether or not that made me a real homeschooler in someone else's eyes doesn't matter me. It' a bad mental habit to get upset about other people's classifications.  You can tell people how you classify yourself, and then they'll agree or not.  Whatever.  I only care about legal issues because that can really cause people serious problems down the road.  Those were public school classes open to only legally registered homeschoolers.  They set the schedule, content, rules, testing requirements, vaccination requirements, etc. I'm in or I'm out, but I have no say over what they do and HSLDA doesn't either.

[SeaConquest]

4 minutes ago, Farrar said:

The idea that parkour isn't PE is absurd. Like, come on.

It seems to me that there are different issues here. On the one hand, there is corruption in the California charter system. There just is. On the other hand, lots of kids go to Disney through school, especially the education days. And the list of "special" classes don't seem absurd to me at all. And then there's the idea that you can home educate for a lot less. Well, yes, you really can. But it's a lot harder at the high school level. And some kids need that much funding because of special needs.

 

Yes, tons of different issues going on and being conflated.

Let's look specifically at what HSLDA said:

"I don’t know of any states where they’re paying for the kinds of things they’re paying for in California,” said Mike Smith, president of the Home School Legal Defense Association, a national group that advocates for home-schooling families.

Several states have homeschool charters that operate similar to CA's, so that's just false. But he goes on:

“As you know, that’s why some of the problems have occurred, because there’s so much money in it,” Smith said. “It’s very easy to do.... It’s just ripe for the kind of things that are going on.”

To Smith, home school charters are antithetical to the point of home-schooling, which he believes is to be free of government control over education and to avoid touching education funds. These charters have created a divide within the home school community between families who pay for home school out of their own pocket and families who opt for the free money, according to Smith.

“They want that money, and they’re willing to give up that freedom to get it,” Smith said.

Smith adds that home-schooling isn’t typically expensive; a family can afford enough curriculum and books for $500 to $700 in a year.

Public education dollars should be spent on education, “and that’s it,” he said.

Implication: they weren't spending money on things that were educational. With friends like HSLDA, who needs enemies?

 

Edited June 17, 2019 by SeaConquest

[SeaConquest]

Just now, hjffkj said:

Yes, I understand that.  But it isn't surprising to me at all that HSLDA would consider going through a public charter to be homeschooling and hence the not having a stake in this issue.  Now, i they accept membership from people who use homeschool public charters than they should be fighting for their rights.  I do not know if they are clear on that matter since I've never considered using their services

 

But, it is taking a stake. That's my point. Read the quotes I listed below. It's take a very obvious position that charters are ripe for abuse.

[SeaConquest]

Just now, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

HSLDA has always maintained that it only gets involved in homeschool situations where there are no taxpayer dollars involved.  They aren't throwing anyone under a bus, they simply disagree with you and so do I. They're maintaining a philosophically consistent position of complete autonomy from the public system, which includes public funds.  Do I agree with everything they do?  No, I wish they only dealt with homeschooling laws and nothing else.  Do I agree that it would be a terrible idea to give taxpayer funds to homeschoolers?  Yes.  It blurs the lines which has the potential to create all sorts of legal precedents and legal definitions that in the long run have a worse effect on homeschooling as a whole.  And I do fully support tax credits for homeschoolers?  Yes,  because they aren't taking tax money out of the government coffers, they're crediting taxpayers for the relief they're provided the system (on average $10,000 per kid per year.)  

I have used the public system for homeschoolers at Eagleride in Mesa, AZ.  I knew I was enrolling my kid for extra curricular public school classes.  I have no problem with the legal distinction. I made the distinction when people asked where my kid goes to school. (Public enrichment school for extra curriculars 2 days a week,  homeschooling for core subjects 3 days a week.) Whether or not that made me a real homeschooler in someone else's eyes doesn't matter me. It' a bad mental habit to get upset about other people's classifications.  You can tell people how you classify yourself, and then they'll agree or not.  Whatever.  I only care about legal issues because that can really cause people serious problems down the road.  Those were public school classes open to only legally registered homeschoolers.  They set the schedule, content, rules, testing requirements, vaccination requirements, etc. I'm in or I'm out, but I have no say over what they do and HSLDA doesn't either.

 

How lovely that you had that option. We don't. We have homeschool charters, which is our form of a hybrid schooling option. Thankfully HSLDA wasn't there to undermine your parenting decisions about what is best for your child to foreclose those options for you. I am just asking for the same courtesy. I don't want them to advocate on our behalf; I want them not to throw us under the bus. Is that too much to ask?

[SeaConquest]

Just now, Plum said:

The newspaper should have interviewed EdChoice or some other charter school related group. What is the point of interviewing HSLDA for an article about charter schools? This does not help clarify the homeschool vs. home-school confusion. 

 

Exactly. This is our lobbying organization: https://www.ccsa.org/

[JustEm]

17 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

 

But, it is taking a stake. That's my point. Read the quotes I listed below. It's take a very obvious position that charters are ripe for abuse.

By taking a stake I meant with fighting for charter school laws in the courtroom.  Smith clearly stated his opinion on it but I wouldn't say he 'throws anyone under the bus' because that implies that HSLDA was ever loyal to public charter schools. 

[JustEm]

11 minutes ago, Plum said:

The newspaper should have interviewed EdChoice or some other charter school related group. What is the point of interviewing HSLDA for an article about charter schools? This does not help clarify the homeschool vs. home-school confusion. 

 

This would have made a lot more sense

[SeaConquest]

And if people don't think this is a big deal and a hit job, this stuff is making national news right now. Our legislators are watching all of this in light of the Valiant/A3 charter management scandal:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2019/06/17/how-does-million-charter-scam-work-heres-what-happened-california-before-people-were-indicted/

Edited June 17, 2019 by SeaConquest

[moonflower]

I think anything where there's significant money available with limited oversight is ripe for abuse - heck, I think public schools are ripe for abuse!

I'm not as ideological about homeschooling as the HSLDA people, but I can see the POV that says taking government money in return for (admittedly limited) oversight is giving up freedom to get services, sure. It doesn't bother me much that homeschoolers do it and I'd do it if I lived in a state that allowed it, because I'm willing to give up the freedom for the money - but I wouldn't think  I was doing something else.

I think the thing about Parkour classes is that for people in public school, that kind of thing is extracurricular, and they pay for it themselves.  They don't necessarily see homeschooling as an educational option where you can do whatever you like for the various subjects and have the state pay for them in the same way that when you tell people you're homeschooling, they often automatically think you're doing "school-at-home."  For them, their conception of homeschooling PE is not Parkour classes, it's Homeschooling PE at the local gym, where kids go and replicate what public schoolers are doing.  So when they hear that the government is giving you $5k or whatever a year to do these things they pay for out of pocket, that they're not getting through the local public school, there's disbelief and probably some resentment.

As far as Disney goes, the writer admitted that public schoolers in CA go on Disney field trips too.  It does make me as a person who doesn't live in CA and hasn't been to Disney wonder what, on the whole, a Disney field trip has to do with education, for any group of school kids.  

 

But anyway, the article didn't feel like a hit piece to me because it made the $ charters sound pretty awesome, if potentially a bit scammy of gov't money.  I'd think on the whole it would be an advertisement for homeschooling in CA - hey look, you too can get horseback riding and Latin online and etc. paid for! - for people who don't mind trading a bit of freedom for the $.  It is good to be cautious about this new advent of free money, many thousands of dollars per kid is not chump change and of course there are companies and people drawn to it like flies to honey.

[HS Mom in NC]

8 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

 

How lovely that you had that option. We don't. We have homeschool charters, which is our form of a hybrid schooling option. Thankfully HSLDA wasn't there to undermine your parenting decisions about what is best for your child to foreclose those options for you. I am just asking for the same courtesy. I don't want them to advocate on our behalf; I want them not to throw us under the bus. Is that too much to ask?

They take issues with hybrids.  Hybrids are point of all of this.  They're opposed to hybrids because it blurs lines and causes all sorts of potential and legal problems and it conflicts with their cause.  They aren't supporting me in that option, they are completely detached and have nothing to say about that option.  If I had an issue with a teacher at Eagleridge calling CPS on me for some nonsense reason, they wouldn't have helped me, even as a paying member, because I voluntarily chose to get involved with a government funded school system.  Again, that's not throwing me under the bus.  They don't do taxpayer funded school situations. They never have.  They have been clear about that all along. (I've been a member for 19 years.)  I don't feel entitled to them changing their organization to something other than its been just because it personally suits me and some other homeschoolers.  I'm not entitled to have them at my beck and call for issues they have said they don't get involved in and neither does anyone else.

If someone wants a legal organization that supports hybrid versions of homeschooling then they can get up and make the effort to create and maintain it themselves instead of fussing that an established organization refuses to change its entire philosophy.

Repeat after me:
I'm not entitled to to the services of an organization that is dedicated to a cause different than mine. 
I'm not entitled to to the services of an organization that is dedicated to a cause different than mine.
I'm not entitled to to the services of an organization that is dedicated to a cause different than mine.
I'm not entitled to to the services of an organization that is dedicated to a cause different than mine.
I'm not entitled to to the services of an organization that is dedicated to a cause different than mine.

[JoJosMom]

26 minutes ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

HSLDA has always maintained that it only gets involved in homeschool situations where there are no taxpayer dollars involved.  They aren't throwing anyone under a bus, they simply disagree with you...

 

This.

[SeaConquest]

On our local homeschooling boards in So Cal, I've been rather critical of some of the excesses, and I can certainly see areas in need of reform. I'm just outraged that instead of a simple 'no comment' or 'we don't represent charter/public school students,' HSLDA had to make comments that actively work against us. Moonflower, you are correct that this is all about resentment on the part of the public. But, right now, we need public support if we are going to keep independent study charters as an option for homeschoolers.

[HS Mom in NC]

Just now, SeaConquest said:

 But, right now, we need public support if we are going to keep independent study charters as an option for homeschoolers.

They are philosophically opposed to keeping independent charters as an option for homeschoolers.  They always have been.  You are not entitled to their support for something they're opposed to.

[SeaConquest]

Just now, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

They take issues with hybrids.  Hybrids are point of all of this.  They're opposed to hybrids because it blurs lines and causes all sorts of potential and legal problems and it conflicts with their cause.  They aren't supporting me in that option, they are completely detached and have nothing to say about that option.  If I had an issue with a teacher at Eagleridge calling CPS on me for some nonsense reason, they wouldn't have helped me, even as a paying member, because I voluntarily chose to get involved with a government funded school system.  Again, that's not throwing me under the bus.  They don't do taxpayer funded school situations. They never have.  They have been clear about that all along. (I've been a member for 19 years.)  I don't feel entitled to them changing their organization to something other than its been just because it personally suits me and some other homeschoolers.  I'm not entitled to have them at my beck and call for issues they have said they don't get involved in and neither does anyone else.

If someone wants a legal organization that supports hybrid versions of homeschooling then they can get up and make the effort to create and maintain it themselves instead of fussing that an established organization refuses to change its entire philosophy.

Repeat after me:
I'm not entitled to to the services of an organization that is dedicated to a cause different than mine. 
I'm not entitled to to the services of an organization that is dedicated to a cause different than mine.
I'm not entitled to to the services of an organization that is dedicated to a cause different than mine.
I'm not entitled to to the services of an organization that is dedicated to a cause different than mine.
I'm not entitled to to the services of an organization that is dedicated to a cause different than mine.

 

I don't want their services. I want them to shut the eff up about a topic which they know nothing about. They don't represent us. They don't like us. They don't know anything about us. So, they should have simply not commented. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

[SeaConquest]

Just now, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

They are philosophically opposed to keeping independent charters as an option for homeschoolers.  They always have been.  You are not entitled to their support for something they're opposed to.

 

I don't want their support. I personally think they are a bunch of bigots and wish they would go pound sand. I was referring to support from the California public.

[JustEm]

10 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

On our local homeschooling boards in So Cal, I've been rather critical of some of the excesses, and I can certainly see areas in need of reform. I'm just outraged that instead of a simple 'no comment' or 'we don't represent charter/public school students,' HSLDA had to make comments that actively work against us. Moonflower, you are correct that this is all about resentment on the part of the public. But, right now, we need public support if we are going to keep independent study charters as an option for homeschoolers.

 

If in their minds, public charter schools that have a home schooling option is harmful to their cause of keeping non publicly funded home school laws intact then their comments shouldn't be shocking.  I'm sorry that your home school option is being threatened right now but I think being angry at HSLDA is misplaced.  Be angry at the people/representatives in CA who are actively working to take away your options

[lewelma]

Interestingly, NZ homeschoolers get an allowance with no oversight at all.  It is an allowance for the *supervisor* (the homeschool parent) not for educational expenses.  We are allowed to spend it on anything we want, including food, bills, petrol etc.  

[JoJosMom]

7 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

 

I don't want their services. I want them to shut the eff up about a topic which they know nothing about. They don't represent us. They don't like us. They don't know anything about us. So, they should have simply not commented. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

 

But, Monique, why can they not comment when asked? My understanding is that HSLDA opposes public charters, in part, because of the risk of the type of abuse at issue here. Their goal is to keep (their definition of) homeschooling legal and available. To the extent that abuse of the public charter school system might put at risk ALL homeschooling in California, I would honestly be very surprised if the HSLDA did NOT take a position.

ETA: Okay. You just posted "I don't want their support. I personally think they are a bunch of bigots and wish they would go pound sand. I was referring to support from the California public." I think your personal dislike of the organization has you turning them into the bogeyman here. So never mind. 🙂

Edited June 17, 2019 by JoJosMom

[Farrar]

I totally see what you're saying. You're not bothered by HSLDA's position per se, but by the fact that to get the homeschooled charter family side of it, the newspaper asked HSLDA and HSLDA walked right in happily, basically claiming to speak for you, when they've always opposed your method of education.

[JustEm]

13 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

 

I don't want their services. I want them to shut the eff up about a topic which they know nothing about. They don't represent us. They don't like us. They don't know anything about us. So, they should have simply not commented. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

 

Of course they know about independent study public charter schools.  And they believe it threatens non publicly funded home school families, hence their comments.   

[moonflower]

Well if there were an organization operating somewhere that claimed say free speech but used that claim to speak in ways you thought were out of bounds or abusive, say to march in a Neo Nazi parade in TN or something, and you were a pretty famous free speech organization out in SoCal, and someone from TN called you up and said what do you think about these free speech guys out in TN who are staging the White Power Parade this year, would you say oh, well, I don't really have anything to do with that kind of free speech, I have no opinion?

Some people probably would but a fair number would have an opinion and voice it.

(not that you guys in charters out there in CA are Nazis, I'm just trying to make an over-obvious comparison)

Personally I think the idea of using public funds for swimming lessons is great, but I'm not an ideological homeschooler and never have been.  I just don't always like the local public schools.  Maybe part of it is a divide between the older homeschoolers who had often more Abstract Reasons and newer homeschoolers who often just want the best thing for their kid.

[SeaConquest]

Just now, hjffkj said:

 

If in their minds, public charter schools that have a home schooling option is harmful to their cause of keeping non publicly funded home school laws intact then their comments shouldn't be shocking.  I'm sorry that your home school option is being threatened right now but I think being angry at HSLDA is misplaced.  Be angry at the people/representatives in CA who are actively working to take away your options

 

Oh, we certainly are upset and are working tirelessly to stop the legislation. I posted about this because I wanted others to be aware that HSLDA is not "remaining detached," as described above; they are actively working against charter homeschoolers in California -- the vast majority of homeschoolers in California. We are not asking for their services or their help. We are not asking them to compromise their principles by saying things they don't believe. We are asking them to stay out of it and let our charter school organization represent us to the media. If you all are peachy keen with HSLDA actively working against tens of thousands of homeschoolers (including many families on this board), by saying things like what I have quoted above during a crucial political battle, well then carry on. 

[moonflower]

I'm fine with HSLDA speaking their minds about anything they think; free speech is fine with me.  If they have an opinion about homeschooling and a platform to give it, that's their business.  I disagree with them (partially, anyway - I do think there's a possibility for abuse with the charter system, like with any confluence of public money and private spending) but I don't see disagreeing with them as requiring them to shut the hell up, or whatever.

Is the idea that all types of homeschoolers should support or at least not work against all other types of homeschoolers, even when they are ideologically opposed?

[HS Mom in NC]

13 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

 

I don't want their services. I want them to shut the eff up about a topic which they know nothing about. They don't represent us. They don't like us. They don't know anything about us. So, they should have simply not commented. Why is this so difficult for you to understand?

Are you assuming that the person doing the reporting didn't ask HSLDA? Based on what I've seen, HSLDA gets asked to comment on just about any story that involves homeschooling. You also don't get to decide what other people have to say about these issues when they come up.

[SeaConquest]

2 minutes ago, JoJosMom said:

 

But, Monique, why can they not comment when asked? My understanding is that HSLDA opposes public charters, in part, because of the risk of the type of abuse at issue here. Their goal is to keep (their definition of) homeschooling legal and available. To the extent that abuse of the public charter school system might put at risk ALL homeschooling in California, I would honestly be very surprised if the HSLDA did NOT take a position.

ETA: Okay. You just posted "I don't want their support. I personally think they are a bunch of bigots and wish they would go pound sand. I was referring to support from the California public." I think your personal dislike of the organization has you turning them into the bogeyman here. So never mind. 🙂

 

I do dislike them as an organization because of their behavior towards LGBTQ families -- you are right. But, I can understand your point -- that charter abuse risks homeschooling altogether. That's a fair point. One that I don't think is a real risk, given that homeschooling isn't actually a thing in California. They are just private schools by law, so I don't see private schools going away. The issue is really one about our crappy public schools losing so many students to charters -- not just homeschooling charters, but charters in general. So, the teacher's unions are fighting back with the legislation to curb charter expansion, etc. Homeschooling charters are a tiny fraction of the charters in CA, but we are getting caught in the crossfire.  

Edited June 17, 2019 by SeaConquest

[SeaConquest]

Just now, Farrar said:

I totally see what you're saying. You're not bothered by HSLDA's position per se, but by the fact that to get the homeschooled charter family side of it, the newspaper asked HSLDA and HSLDA walked right in happily, basically claiming to speak for you, when they've always opposed your method of education.

 

Yes, exactly. 

[HS Mom in NC]

7 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

 

Oh, we certainly are upset and are working tirelessly to stop the legislation. I posted about this because I wanted others to be aware that HSLDA is not "remaining detached," as described above; they are actively working against charter homeschoolers in California -- the vast majority of homeschoolers in California. We are not asking for their services or their help. We are not asking them to compromise their principles by saying things they don't believe. We are asking them to stay out of it and let our charter school organization represent us to the media. If you all are peachy keen with HSLDA actively working against tens of thousands of homeschoolers (including many families on this board), by saying things like what I have quoted above during a crucial political battle, well then carry on. 

That's an unreasonable expectation.  When asked, they're going to give their point of view.  If the situation had been reversed would you expect those supporting hybrid homeschooling options to say, "No comment".? I don't believe you would.  That's not how life works.  When issues come up people from all different points of view take the opportunity to speak up. Expecting anything else is unrealistic.

And no one who is at all familiar with HSLDA is being informed of anything they don't already know.  We know what kind of organization they are and how the respond to this particular issue.  They always have so far.

[SeaConquest]

Just now, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

Are you assuming that the person doing the reporting didn't ask HSLDA? Based on what I've seen, HSLDA gets asked to comment on just about any story that involves homeschooling. You also don't get to decide what other people have to say about these issues when they come up.

 

Of course, I assume they were contacted. The reporter is clueless and didn't know to speak to the charter organization that actually represents us.  

"You also don't get to decide what other people have to say about these issues when they come up."

Why do you keep speaking to me like I am 3? Obviously, I don't get to decide; I still get to have an opinion about it. I see that we don't share the same opinion. That's fine. We're adults. It happens.

[SeaConquest]

Just now, moonflower said:

I'm fine with HSLDA speaking their minds about anything they think; free speech is fine with me.  If they have an opinion about homeschooling and a platform to give it, that's their business.  I disagree with them (partially, anyway - I do think there's a possibility for abuse with the charter system, like with any confluence of public money and private spending) but I don't see disagreeing with them as requiring them to shut the hell up, or whatever.

Is the idea that all types of homeschoolers should support or at least not work against all other types of homeschoolers, even when they are ideologically opposed?

 

No. You do you.

I just wanted people to be aware of what their money was supporting. People are now aware.

[JoJosMom]

4 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

 

I do dislike them as an organization because of their behavior towards LGBTQ families -- you are right. But, I can understand your point -- that charter abuse risks homeschooling altogether. That's a fair point. One that I don't think is a real risk, given that homeschooling isn't actually a thing in California. They are just private schools by law, so I don't see private schools going away. The issue is really one about our crappy public schools losing so many students to charters -- not just homeschooling charters, but charters in generally. So, the teacher's unions are fighting back. Homeschooling charters are a tiny fraction of the charters in CA, but we are getting caught in the crossfire.  

 

"They are just private schools by law" under current law. That could easily be changed, though. And, like it or not, public charter school abuses draw the spotlight to ALL forms of homeschooling. Again, I am not at all surprised that the HSLDA actively seeks to protect the form of homeschooling that it is chartered to represent and protect.

[moonflower]

Oh, sure, it's always good to understand the goals and actions of associations you're part of.  

[HS Mom in NC]

7 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

 

 

I just wanted people to be aware of what their money was supporting. People are now aware.

You mean you are now aware.  Everyone who listened to them and read their materials and website were fully aware of that because they don't hide it and they never have.  It's never been a secret.  It's been explicitly stated for decades now. They stay completely out of public school options and they oppose (in words and actions) hybrid options.

Edited June 17, 2019 by Homeschool Mom in AZ

[SeaConquest]

Just now, JoJosMom said:

 

"They are just private schools by law" under current law. That could easily be changed, though. And, like it or not, public charter school abuses draw the spotlight to ALL forms of homeschooling. Again, I am not at all surprised that the HSLDA actively seeks to protect the form of homeschooling that it is chartered to represent and protect.

 

Well, I don't appreciate him misrepresenting the truth and making insidious comments about homeschool charters in his efforts to do so. 

[SeaConquest]

Just now, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

You mean you are now aware.  Everyone who listened to them and read their materials and website were fully aware of that because they don't hide it and they never have.  It's never been a secret.  It's been explicitly stated for decades now. They stay completely out of public school options and they oppose (in words and actions) hybrid options.

 

Again with the unnecessary condescension. It's really grating. 

I'm very aware of HSLDA's agenda. I'm alerting people on this board to how their statements to the media could impact tens of thousands of California homeschoolers, which is very different from the scenario you posted about: "They aren't supporting me in that option, they are completely detached and have nothing to say about that option." 

If you don't care or are thrilled, then just scroll on by.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Your headline AKA thread title is just as loaded and misrepresents HSLDA's contribution which was to simply comment when asked.  There is no throwing under the bus because they aren't there to keep those in charters away from the bus to begin with. 

Edited June 17, 2019 by Jean in Newcastle
got the organizations letters out of order

[SeaConquest]

1 minute ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Your headline AKA thread title is just as loaded and misrepresents HSLDA's contribution which was to simply comment when asked.  There is no throwing under the bus because they aren't there to keep those in charters away from the bus to begin with. 

 

Alrighty then. I am going to step away. I see that I've come to wrong place for support, which makes me sad because this has always been my homeschooling "home" on the internet. I have an 11 mm kidney stone at present, so I am not in the mood to deal with the possible loss of our homeschooling charter on top of it. I don't know how to delete a thread, or if it's possible, so consider this my pathetic flounce for the time being.

[sassenach]

1 hour ago, SeaConquest said:

 

Yes, tons of different issues going on and being conflated.

Let's look specifically at what HSLDA said:

"I don’t know of any states where they’re paying for the kinds of things they’re paying for in California,” said Mike Smith, president of the Home School Legal Defense Association, a national group that advocates for home-schooling families.

Several states have homeschool charters that operate similar to CA's, so that's just false. But he goes on:

“As you know, that’s why some of the problems have occurred, because there’s so much money in it,” Smith said. “It’s very easy to do.... It’s just ripe for the kind of things that are going on.”

To Smith, home school charters are antithetical to the point of home-schooling, which he believes is to be free of government control over education and to avoid touching education funds. These charters have created a divide within the home school community between families who pay for home school out of their own pocket and families who opt for the free money, according to Smith.

“They want that money, and they’re willing to give up that freedom to get it,” Smith said.

Smith adds that home-schooling isn’t typically expensive; a family can afford enough curriculum and books for $500 to $700 in a year.

Public education dollars should be spent on education, “and that’s it,” he said.

Implication: they weren't spending money on things that were educational. With friends like HSLDA, who needs enemies?

 

TBH, my friend has used her charter money to fund 2 trips to Hawaii and a DC trip, including flights. I was pretty shocked my that. Yes, kids around here do DC trips, but parents pay. 

Having used a charter to hs in California, I’m not upset by this article. Charter homeschoolers are legally public schoolers- that’s a well established fact and a line the HSLDA has always towed. HS charter abuse in CA is a problem. I don’t see any reason why HSLDA should be expected to defend hs charters or their students. 

[Farrar]

I'm often greatly bothered by HSLDA purporting to represent all homeschoolers in the media. They go in and say that such and such a thing is or isn't mainstream in homeschooling. It's like, you don't represent me. But secular and hybrid schoolers don't have a good, strong, nationwide media voice. AND WE NEED ONE. Because until we have one, HSLDA will keep speaking for us all and news outlets will keep asking them to.

[EmseB]

I haven't read everything, but I homeschool in CA under a private school affidavit. I interact with a lot of public charter school peeps. I am not a member of HSLDA. I don't take government funds for a whole lot of reasons, but mostly because, to me, homeschooling is opting out of the public system. I don't want to be in a position to be reliant on those dollars when/if they get taken away or if the restrictions and requirements for using them become something I'm unwilling to live with. And I couldn't justify taking those dollars for dance lessons or fencing or whatever when public school systems seem to need them so badly and I don't. Even if public schools are using funds for Disney trips, that doesn't mean I have to or should try to justify it for myself. Public charters just weren't ever an option for me (personally, not speaking about ANYONE else) after researching extensively.

All that said, what some parents brag about getting paid for via their public charter is astounding to me. And the way they get the dollars seems kind of sketchy, and the way they talk about it is always about how they submitted the request thinking there's no way the purchase would qualify, but either their ES looked the other way or just didn't notice. It always made me think that if word got around to those who are ideologically opposed to homeschooling and active in state government, there would be a huge push to end the current system. And since homeschooling privately with an affidavit is blessedly easy in this state, I really am worried that what we do on this side of things would get caught up in that mess because the general public doesn't distinguish between types of homeschooling.

[EmseB]

22 minutes ago, Plum said:

Wait a minute, the HSLDA guy is saying public education dollars should be spent on education and that's it? Why does he care how public education dollars are spent? Their whole goal is to make sure homeschoolers avoid using tax dollars in the first place. HSLDA tries very hard to be an island in the sea of education yet here they are on ps/charter school shores.

Also, if private lessons are considered educational when the students are traditionally homeschooled and paid for by the parents, then shouldn't it be just as educational if the charter schools pay for them? 

The question might as well be why does anyone care how public education dollars are spent? I care and I've opted out of the system entirely (or as far as I can), but the whole system of education in this state affects homeschoolers/charter schoolers/public schoolers in different ways. I don't see any organization involved with education, including HSLDA, not having an opinion on these things and being free to comment on said positions. The reason he said that is because it is bad for homeschoolers who aren't using tax dollars getting lumped in with those who would use the dollars for things that public school parents would otherwise be paying for as extra-curriculars. If HSDLA's stance is that any money going to homeschoolers should be for education, that's probably to protect homeschoolers in general from looking like freeloaders. I am a homeschooler and my perception here of people using charter dollars for certain things is NOT good. And I am not really that much in opposition to them, but there are people here who are rabidly anti-homeschooling in any form and especially in a form that gets little Jane's ballet lessons paid for via PS dollars.