What do we need to ponder for college now?

[Terabith]

My oldest will be finishing 9th grade this year.  She's moderately gifted academically....she's top of her classes, A's in pre-AP classes, 98th-99th percentile on all standardized tests taken, including the PSAT 8/9 last year.  She likes learning, but she is far from driven.  She is not a genius in any area; her writing could use some work (especially with transitions), and her interests lie more in the art/ playing D&D/ watching Doctor Who and hanging out with friends on Discord than recreational academics.  She sings in the school choir and is in the school musical, but she's not especially involved in any particular extracurriculars that indicate passion.  Really.....she's not passionate.  She's talked about wanting to be a systems administrator on computers maybe.  

Basically, I think her level of enthusiasm is probably normal and age appropriate, but it's not the kind of thing that's going to get her lots of top scholarship offers.  I think she would be happiest at a small, liberal arts college, where she can take a variety of classes and be challenged but not overwhelmed and be somewhat of a big fish in a small pond.  But she would like her intellectual peers to be more engaged than most of her classmates are at public school in pre-AP classes.  (It's a large high school...about 2000 kids.)  

It feels early to be thinking about where to go to college and what she wants to do with her life, but I don't think it really is.  But, I'm not really sure where to start.  When I was a kid, my Dad took me on a two week long road trip my junior year during school, and we stopped and toured and interviewed at every college between South Dakota and Tennessee.  Like....20 or 30?  I got a LOT of interviewing experience, and I won a full ride (tuition, room and board scholarship), probably as a result of that experience.  I don't think she's likely to win a big scholarship, partly because there are fewer of them around than 25 years ago and partly because she's not as driven intellectually as I was.  I think she can probably get some scholarship money but probably not a full ride.  And we haven't done the FAFSA, but we probably make too much to qualify for a ton of need based stuff, but we also don't have enough money to fully pay for much.  (We make a bit under $100,000 a year in a medium cost of living area.  Certainly plenty....but probably not going to be able to pay for a $50,000 a year school, if that makes any sense.)  

So, where do we start?  What do parents of rising high school sophomores do?  

[Guest]

I’d suggest looking at your in-state schools and figuring out which have automatic merit aid for 98-99% ACT/SAT scores, and see if any of those are a good fit. In general, most state schools, especially non-flagships, have relatively relaxed admissions, where you don’t need a “passion” to stand out,  and high grades and test scores are enough. And with honors colleges, etc, schools with fairly relaxed admissions policies can still be a good choice for many fairly high performing, but not necessarily super competitive, kids. 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

38 minutes ago, Terabith said:

My oldest will be finishing 9th grade this year.  She's moderately gifted academically....she's top of her classes, A's in pre-AP classes, 98th-99th percentile on all standardized tests taken, including the PSAT 8/9 last year.  She likes learning, but she is far from driven.  She is not a genius in any area; her writing could use some work (especially with transitions), and her interests lie more in the art/ playing D&D/ watching Doctor Who and hanging out with friends on Discord than recreational academics.  She sings in the school choir and is in the school musical, but she's not especially involved in any particular extracurriculars that indicate passion.  Really.....she's not passionate.  She's talked about wanting to be a systems administrator on computers maybe.  

Basically, I think her level of enthusiasm is probably normal and age appropriate, but it's not the kind of thing that's going to get her lots of top scholarship offers.  I think she would be happiest at a small, liberal arts college, where she can take a variety of classes and be challenged but not overwhelmed and be somewhat of a big fish in a small pond.  But she would like her intellectual peers to be more engaged than most of her classmates are at public school in pre-AP classes.  (It's a large high school...about 2000 kids.)  

It feels early to be thinking about where to go to college and what she wants to do with her life, but I don't think it really is.  But, I'm not really sure where to start.  When I was a kid, my Dad took me on a two week long road trip my junior year during school, and we stopped and toured and interviewed at every college between South Dakota and Tennessee.  Like....20 or 30?  I got a LOT of interviewing experience, and I won a full ride (tuition, room and board scholarship), probably as a result of that experience.  I don't think she's likely to win a big scholarship, partly because there are fewer of them around than 25 years ago and partly because she's not as driven intellectually as I was.  I think she can probably get some scholarship money but probably not a full ride.  And we haven't done the FAFSA, but we probably make too much to qualify for a ton of need based stuff, but we also don't have enough money to fully pay for much.  (We make a bit under $100,000 a year in a medium cost of living area.  Certainly plenty....but probably not going to be able to pay for a $50,000 a year school, if that makes any sense.)  

So, where do we start?  What do parents of rising high school sophomores do?  

 

I would start by going through an EFC calculator, like this one from College Board.  Select both Federal Methodology (FM) and Institutional Methodology (IM).  You will get two Estimated Family Contribution (EFC) numbers, which represent what colleges estimate you family can contribute as a minimum annual parental share of college costs.  This doesn't mean they think that you will pay that amount out of current income, but rather out of savings and assets, current income, and loans combined.  The two methodologies are used by different schools (the IM is more detailed and is used mainly by private schools.  The IM EFC is often higher, but those schools also often offer more institutional aid, so the net cost may end up similar to public schools).  https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/pay-for-college/paying-your-share/expected-family-contribution-calculator

Once you have your EFC, go to a handful of colleges that might be possibilities and run their Net Price Calculator.  This will give you an estimate of what the total cost of attendance at that school is and what average grants for a family of your income and a student of your daughter's ability tend to get.  I suggest just a handful of schools to begin with, but a selection of private and public schools of different selectivity (ie, both an in demand flagship public school and the less difficult to enter local public college, private schools should also represent different sizes and selectivity).

I would do these calculators with your drink of choice and some good chocolate at hand.  The first time I did this, it felt exactly like what I think an encounter with Dementors would be like - as if my soul had been sucked out of me.  Give yourself some time to adjust to what the numbers look like.  Doing this early in high school is a great idea, because then you have time to think through your options.  What would your budget have to look like to meet some of these costs?  Is it doable with a stretch or just not possible.  

At the same time, I think this is a good point for your kid to be considering what she wants to be or do in 10 years.  That can start pretty general.  What type of activities and encounters is she comfortable with and bring her joy?  Where is she really uncomfortable?   There are some interest surveys like the Holland Codes  https://muir.ucsd.edu/_files/academics/Personality-Mosaic.pdf  and http://stdv-jenny-peters.com/documents/HowToObtainONETResults.pdf  You aren't trying to narrow down exactly what she will be doing at age 25, but prompting discussion and consideration.  Do you have family friends who do interesting things that she might like?  Can she meet with them to talk about their job and what got them there?  

Another resource I like is the book College Match by Steven Antonoff.  He addresses a lot of personality features, academic strengths and weaknesses, and issue of fit academically, socially, and financially.  He has some great student surveys to help a kid think through what they are looking for in a college.  You can find several of his worksheets under the Writing tab on his website.  http://schoolbuff.com/

I don't think you need to drag her to 20 colleges right now.  But it might be a good idea to do a couple practice college visits.  Often students don't know what they don't know.  I remember one of mine commented during his first college visit that he had no idea that he might have fun at college.  He was looking at classrooms, dorms, fitness facilities, and dining halls and it wasn't what he expected.  He was listening to the tour guides talk about what sort of internships and research opportunities they'd had.  This wasn't the image he had in his head.  Often when I talk to high schoolers, it hasn't occurred to them that they have much more control over their schedule, course selection, and major than they would in high school.  Even the idea that they won't be in class from 8am until 3pm can be a revelation.

 

[kokotg]

She sounds a fair bit like my 9th grader 🙂 . I have a senior in the thick of the college search right now and also a 9th grader....here's what I'm prioritizing for my 9th grader, based on what I've learned from the process with my 12th grader (with the caveat that he's still waiting on the majority of his decisions, so we don't know yet how well we did first time around....)

*start visiting colleges early to find out what kind of environments he likes, but don't make a huge thing about it. I do wish I'd done some college visits earlier (we didn't do any until spring of junior year), but, at the same time, I don't want my 9th grader to feel like everything he's doing for the next 3 1/2 years is all about college. It's pretty easy to show him colleges casually, since he's along for the ride on some visits with his older brother. But otherwise, I'd check out different types of colleges locally and some in other places when we happen to be in the area.

*help him figure out which extracurriculars he's most interested in and facilitate/encourage him to stick with them. ECs were probably the weakest part of my oldest's application, and I wish I'd pushed him a little earlier into the things he wound up doing....but honestly he's my super introverted kid who's prone to social anxiety, and I was already so tired from YEARS of trying to figure out how much to push him out of comfort zone that I was on a bit of a break by the time high school rolled around. But he did take piano lessons starting in 8th grade, and in 10th grade I pretty much shoved him out the door one day to audition for a play....so he found some things he loved doing and wanted to stick with through 12th grade. Again, we haven't heard back yet from his most selective colleges, but it's been striking to see how much of an impression his ECs seem to have made on the small LACs he's been accepted to so far. They seem to think of him as the mathy kid who does theater, which is kind of what we were going for in his application (his common app essay focused on his theater experiences). This is my long-winded way of saying that I'm not as worried about ECs as I was when I started out. I've read over and over again that colleges want to see kids have a couple of things that they're passionate about and stick with, and so far that's ringing true. And, of course, there are tons of less selective colleges out there that just flat out don't consider ECs.

My 9th grader's main EC is music (he plays piano and clarinet, and might be interested in a music major), and he's pretty happy to do as much of that as I suggest (so far); he has lessons in both, plays in two different ensembles in a homeschool band group, and he'll add in some more stuff next year. He also spends a lot of time at our local library doing D&D with a group there, so I encouraged him to sign up to volunteer shelving books as well and go to their Teen Advisory Board meetings. I feel like he's doing plenty now, but he's doing things he really enjoys--not just stuff for applications. 

My other stuff wouldn't apply much since your DD is in school (stuff like "take subject tests after finishing a class, in case he needs them"). As far as the EFC--definitely run some Net Price Calculators and see how things turn out. I would guess you'd get a decent amount of aid at needs met colleges at that income level (though they'll also expect you pay a decent amount), but you just have to plug things in and find out. And there are a lot of great schools that offer substantial merit, too. 

[Terabith]

3 hours ago, dmmetler said:

I’d suggest looking at your in-state schools and figuring out which have automatic merit aid for 98-99% ACT/SAT scores, and see if any of those are a good fit. In general, most state schools, especially non-flagships, have relatively relaxed admissions, where you don’t need a “passion” to stand out,  and high grades and test scores are enough. And with honors colleges, etc, schools with fairly relaxed admissions policies can still be a good choice for many fairly high performing, but not necessarily super competitive, kids. 

That's a great idea!  It actually never occurred to me that there WAS automatic merit aid.  My dad was a college dean at a private college, so my own personal college search focused on the schools with reciprocal tuition agreements, and then I applied for scholarships, where, since I was coming from South Dakota and applying to pretty much anywhere NOT in corn country made me check a bunch of unique boxes for scholarship purposes.  

[catz]

The best thing we did when my oldest was about that age was work with a financial adviser to give us a sense what we should be looking at for a college budget and to give us advice for planning for retirement going forward.  Full ride scholarships are pretty rare in this day and age.  All you can do is have a budget in mind and work with that.  She will be in a good spot for merit at many schools and I bet the focus and motivation will come.   I definitely agree to be checking out your in state options.  Is it correct your child is in school and not homeschooled?  Because homeschooling obviously takes another level of planning.  

I don't think your oldest sounds out of the range of normal for age at all.  My oldest changed so much from age 14 to 18 (now).  He changed his idea for a major like 3X.  So I wouldn't get invested in a particular direction.  I'd give her plenty of space to explore interests and dive deep.  We toured our first college between sophomore and junior year.  I think if you have some local and she's open to it, it's fine to just get on a general tour or info session.  Eat lunch in a student center.  If that stresses her out or feels overwhelming, I think it's fine to back down and wait a year.  I actually had to drag my younger (currently 9th also) on a tour last summer due to a scheduling glitch and that did actually spark her imagination a bit though she is not chomping at the bit to tour more schools for her so I'll probably wait another year.  

Edited February 28, 2019 by FuzzyCatz

[Lori D.]

- Career exploration?
- Very casually visit a college campus or two when on the road for vacation?
- Part time job when 16yo?

But mostly, I would suggest spending 10th grade supporting her in trying out interests, involvement in extracurriculars, do some volunteering. (Not only can those possibly help her find what brings joy in life, but could help her stumble across a possible career interest. Not to mention that volunteering and extracurriculars can help develop leadership, responsibility, and all those other great skills that are looked for on college and scholarship applications... ;o) )

Edited February 28, 2019 by Lori D.

[...................]

Some things I didn't know: 

1. Well one thing I didn't know about is that Parent Plus loans are paid while the student is in school, they are 7% interest, and the max loan period is ten years.  So, for a 45k school (pretty average price-wise) you're looking at 400 the first year, which increases to 1500 by the 4th year and then stays at 1500 for the following 6 years.  so, just be ready and aware that's what your cost will be. If she goes public, in-state maybe that amount will be 200 lower.  If you can't afford that payment she needs to get into her head now she will need to live at home and commute because there's not much out there for less than 30K to live at the campus.

Here is a parent plus loan calc.  https://calcxml.com/do/parent-plus-loan?skn=96

2.  MANY public university systems don't offer a lot of scholarships, in many states.  There are exceptions but generally speaking, the scholarships are few and far between and very small.  Some parents and kids make it a game/hobby/goal to apply for tons of small scholarships, and spend a lot of time at the beginning of senior year on them.  If you do lots of them they do add up,  like 500 here, 1000 there and so forth.  But if your kid is already at her max as far as academics, and doesn't understand the value, it will be slow going to get her to do enough of them to really make a dent.  As far as private scholarships offering merit, the way to get those snagged is to get high SATs' (above 1300) but apply to LOWER tier schools (aka where your daughter would be well above the 75 percentile for their SAT range.) Again, if her goals in life are local and fairly simple, this is an excellent approach to get tons of scholarship money! My son could have gotten tons of scholarship money that way, but due to his desire to work at Google, and intern there, those schools were not on his list.  However, for someone who is happy with working at a smaller local company choosing the lower tier schools, can really pay off!

3.  Just pick about 5 colleges and apply to those- 2 safeties, 2 targets and one reach (or an extra target if she doesn't care about name or it doesn't matter for her life goals/degree)  ...because IT IS A LOT OF WORK applying, but it is ALSO A LOT OF WORK keeping up with every single college portal and constantly checking to make sure all the info they're requesting is in. SOme use just hte fafsa, some use Fafsa and CSS and idocs, some use both and there will also inevitably be glitches- we've had glitches with sign-in, glitches with a suposed birthday discrepancy, glitches with one college thinking I did not file my W2, another glitch with a college putting financials on hold because my son did not register for selective service (He's 17!)...it just goes on and on and on.  There's always something, and then multiply that by the number of colleges.  We started out with 13 and have withdrawn 7, out of courtesy due to an excellent acceptance, but also because it's a pain in the rear keeping up with all of it!  Do all due diligence to narrow down the colleges and then pick 5 and stick with those   It's also expensive! You have to pay the application fee, pay community college send any DE transcripts, pay the College board to send extra SATs...it goes on and on🙂

Also, longevity is more important than being involved in ten million things.  They also like leadership 🙂  So try to make her stick with Choir and whatever else she's into, for the whole four years.  That shows longevity which is a good trait nowadays.  Kids have so many options, so when they stick with things it shows good character. 

Good luck! THis was super random but just a sampling of things I didn't really understand.

[...................]

Oh- my examples above for the 45k school were with putting some cash into it each year as well (I think it was 6k) so do the calculator yourself to get exact numbers. It’ll be in the 2000 per month range. 🙂

[catz]

Ok - I just wanted to say some parents finance their kids college without parent plus loans or any loans at all. This is what our financial adviser helped clarify for us.  If you take out a parent plus 10 year loan of 30,000 at 7.6% your payment will be $358 a month and you'll end up paying back something like 42,000.  Plus loans are a bit dangerous because they just give them out without evaluating if parents can actually take on and afford the loans.  And yes, you'll start paying back right away.  Here's an article about PP loans that is stuck at the top of the parent board on college confidential.

https://www.chronicle.com/article/the-parent-loan-trap/134844

Obviously not taking out any loans is not possible for every family.  I just think it's really good to have your eyes wide open as early as possible in terms of what finances are actually realistic for your family.  That can save a lot of agony and heartache at application time.  If what you can afford is 2 years CC and transfer, that's fine.  It's not life limiting and it's good to know up front.  If you can afford any school in the country, great, that's easy.  We arranged to pay off our mortgage early so we do have a 529 plan for each kid, but mortgage payments will now be able to roll into tuition payments.  If we do at some point decide we need a loan (our 2 kids may overlap by a year or 2), we may do a HELOC since we won't have a mortgage.   We also may just pull from other savings.  It depends what make sense at that time.  

Anyway - the financial adviser business we've done has been really worth every minute and every penny.  

 

[Momto6inIN]

At the 9th/10th grade level we do a lot of discussion about possible career interests and they are usually working part time jobs by that time and figuring out what they like/don't like to do and I give them lots of room for pursuing stuff on their own time. We also talk in general about college and what we are/aren't able to pay for so there's some injection of reality there. But really getting down to the "nitty gritty" of looking at majors and colleges doesn't happen here til junior year. And even then it depends on the kid. My oldest was very driven and knew exactly what he wanted to do and worked his butt off to make it happen. My 2nd oldest hasn't been as sure about what direction he wants to take, so he might go the CC route to buy some time to figure it out. Still too early to say for my current 9th grader.

[...................]

Good warnings about the PP loans. Yes, many parents of college age students are already in their 50s, and they have lower incomes. How can they repay such monumental loans? We are Young (early 40s) and have a high enough income that we expect to pay the loans off early. 

People should use loan calculators! I can’t imagine taking on a loan without considering the long term cost! That is terrifying.

With all of that said, PP does allow you to contact them to adjust your loan amount if your circumstances or income change. If that ever happens you have to call them immediately and readjust the loan, not wait till it’s in default. Just like any loan, once it’s in default you’ve burned your bridge and will likely not get a favorable response. 

[Chris in VA]

We didn't use any of the financial aid loans offered by the college, choosing a home equity line of credit instead, because interest was only 3%.  We knew I could go back to work during dd's time in college to help, too, and we decided instate was best. Tuition and room and board plus fees at our instate uni is about 24K. We really couldn't go over that. We did visit 3 out of state colleges, and expected scholarships, but none came, except an automatic 10K one at WVU, and it made dd cry to think of having to go there. . It was a little stunning that straight As, 5 APs and a 31 ACT didn't yield more $. Dd ended up getting scholarships from 2 churches, her high school (for music), and a church organization.  2 of those are renewable. 

AFA passion, it may or may not come. She might enjoy an aptitude test and interest survey. Finding Your Focus is a good service to help with that, but I would wait a year and just let her develop. We rush kids so much!

[Terabith]

I half jokingly say that maybe we should move to somewhere remote for the rest of high school just so she would stand out more.  A 32 ACT is nothing special in Virginia, but it might really be in South Dakota.  

[Guest]

Very seriously, check states with reciprocal agreements or out of state tuition waivers. I know TN has such agreements within an X radius, and in a state where the state scholarship starts at a 24, many schools will give a few thousand dollars automatically for scores in the 30’s, and DD discovered that she was eligible for an out of state waiver two ways for Arkansas State-being a neighboring county and for her ACT scores.