Geometry - Summer "school"?

[EmilyGF]

Could you help me think this through?

DS13 is going to go to school next year, we just decided. He's taken Algebra I and II but not geometry. I'm getting signals from school that he'll be better off if he comes in with Geometry under his belt (unless he wants to retake Algebra II). 

I took Geometry in 3 months as a 13-year-old. Can you think of a good resource for him to get enough Geometry to pass the geometry section of a placement test? I guess I'm wondering about a compressible Geometry course. DS13 is pretty good at math and is concerned with being placed in a challenging class this coming year.

Thanks, Emily

[LJPPKGFGSC]

Hi Emily,

I am a former public school teacher, and now I teach Geometry, among other things, at homeschool coops.  Geometry is the only high school math class that could be accelerated and finished over the summer.  There are a variety of less rigorous Geometry texts out there.  I hesitate to recommend any, because in general (and in my opinion) they are not appropriate for most college-bound teens.  Many students will need that year to consolidate their algebra skills. But the most challenging thing about Geometry is learning about proofs - how to we prove things mathematically.  But, in my view, proofs are not emphasized in public schools so much any more.  This has turned Geometry from the hardest to the easiest of all high school math courses for typical students. In my experience, a proof-based course is difficult for younger kids.  Even if their skills at algebraic manipulation are top-notch, they might struggle with other parts of Geometry.  It is important to take some time working with the diagrams in a geometry course.  Procedures are not as obvious as in algebra.  Those other mental skills are valuable for a growing teen brain.  So I would not minimize a Geometry course for someone who is interested in math.

However, even if you do zoom through Geometry this summer, having a 13 year old in Pre-Calculus (whatever it might be called at your neighborhood school), might not be the best option either.  If the class is filled with older students, the teachers will expect more mature study skills, reasoning abilities, persistence, and those sort of non-math skills.  So, it might not be the worst thing for your son to slow down his math progression and focus on other things.  If the class is a bit easy, that can be okay sometimes. 

You could take that time at home to review Algebra (since a Geometry class will not be using those Algebra II skills).  You could also do a challenging book at home, such as something from AoPS.  If you are interested in considering another way to think about accelerated math learners, read "The Calculus Trap".

https://artofproblemsolving.com/articles/calculus-trap

Since your son is so skilled in math, it might not be ideal for him to take enough Geometry just to pass the assessment.  A thorough treatment of a very important part of math might be in his best interest for his long-term success in mathematics and science!

[EmilyGF]

Hi LJP...

I'm familiar with the article you've referenced. As I said, I myself did Geometry in 3 months (and Algebra II during the following 3 months) at his age. I'm aware of the downsides, but there are compelling reasons to go this way. One is that he's done Algebra II, but if he takes Geometry at the brick and mortar school he'll be required to take Algebra II the following year in order to check all the boxes. That seems like a major waste of time and might be enough to make kiddo quit the school (this is a kid who complains things are "too easy" if he isn't frustrated).

There are some major advantages to going to the school in question that I don't want to get into. I've also tried to get the school to allow us to follow our own math progression via AOPS, but if we do, he'll be considered a homeschool student and that would deprive him of many of the benefits associated with the school (the district has red tape galore). I may end up having him do something "independent study", but at this point, doing enough Geometry to accelerate through it seems to make sense. As someone who took classes with peers years older than me and did fine, I'm aware of and OK with the pressures that brings.

Emily

[RootAnn]

Do you know when he'd have to take the placement test?

A few places have Geo for the summer. Mr D Math . . . well, most of the places that normally have it are not listing it or say "registration closed". I don't see that WTMA has released their summer schedule yet, but I don't remember them normally offering Geo, so that probably won't help. 

TabletClass & Derek Owens are both self-paced so a motivated student might be able to make it through most or all of Geo. There is also ALEKS - which I'd tend to use a review & hole-filler vs. teaching class, but it is an option.

[LJPPKGFGSC]

Hi Emily,

You have a uniquely complicated situation!  I cannot imagine why the school would insist that he take Algebra II again?!? Your question makes much more sense now.  If he has finished all of AoPS Algebra II, even the next level of a public school course might be somewhat review at the start.

So, with that said, MathUSee covers the material that a high school student needs to know from Geometry.  I would not suggest it for any other situation but this one.  And, as a mom and a math teacher, I would only give it to my kids if I was confident that they would work through a rigorous curriculum later.  So if he is willing to do AoPS Geometry later, that might be a good way to fulfill the requirements of this school and keep moving ahead. I have only looked at the textbook.

What if you get a textbook and just have him work through it?  Every math textbook I have even seen has the odd answers in the back. That should be enough for him to learn the material for a placement. Perhaps you can find out which publisher they use.  In my area, this is the textbook series I see the most often.....

https://www.amazon.com/Geometry-Grades-9-12-Mcdougal-McDougal/dp/0618250220/ref=pd_sim_14_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0618250220&pd_rd_r=2ZRB5NRQZC3WASSDD8Y2&pd_rd_w=goQBA&pd_rd_wg=RoUvZ&psc=1&refRID=2ZRB5NRQZC3WASSDD8Y2

If the link does not work, it is McDougal / Littell"Concepts and Skills".  I even see a teacher's edition on Amazon if you need it.  I have no doubt that a motivated student could work through the material (minus proofs) in a summer.  In fact, there are very few proofs in this particular text, either in the exercises, or even in the presentations.

In my class, I use Jurgenson Geometry.  But they provide a more complete coverage of proofs.  In fact, I think that if a student works through some of the "C" problems at the end of each exercise set, this course could be as rigorous as AoPS.

https://www.amazon.com/Geometry-Ray-C-Jurgensen/dp/0395977274/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1526141145&sr=8-1&keywords=geometry+textbook+mcdougal+littell

Hope these ideas help you a bit more!   ~ Anne

[daijobu]

Can you find out what the placement test covers?  My dd also wanted to place into a specific math class at her B&M school after homeschooling, so we asked for the list of topics covered on the exam.  She was able to hit those topics hard over the summer and breeze through the test.  Of course, she wasn't learning them for the first time, but you want to be efficient in your studying.  It'd be a shame to spend weeks on 2 column proofs if this school doesn't test you on it.  

[Roadrunner]

Have you looked at the community college summer classes locally? Ours offers geometry. That would be my preference for my kid. 

 

I am assuming your cc allows 13 years olds. Ours does.

[Bocky]

Or how about a local high school? DD16 took Geometry in six weeks over summer at one of our local private high schools. 

[PeterPan]

I would definitely use a standard, rigorous geometry that does proofs (unless they've somehow gone out of vogue, but I doubt it) and gets through introductory trig. As long as he hits those things, it's enough. Yes, totally fine to do over the summer, would definitely do it. That's cool that they're accepting your credits to place him into the next levels. We used BJU for Geometry, and it fits those criteria. I just used an old edition, picked up cheap, and we hammered it out, working through, proof by proof. I like the Derek Owens option. Anything standard and normal. The proofs are to develop his maturity and logical thinking, and the intro trig is so he's good to go with pre-calc. 

MUS stuff is thorough, but I don't think they do proofs. That's really your call. I think it is possible to belabor them for some students. MUS is more pragmatic, going what will show up on a test, what will make a difference in scores. Fine. So the trig intro material will be there but the proofs won't be. Maybe fish out what your new school does or what text they use. If they're not doing proofs, then MUS could be on the table. Geometry isn't really a hill to die on course, but it can be a maturing experience with the logical, orderly work. My student hit some walls, which I think were due to low working memory. Another good reason to do the proofs I guess, lol.

[EmilyGF]

We came up with a plan - he's doing the AOPS Geometry online class starting tomorrow and he'll be studying up with a self-study geometry guide to prep for the test throughout the summer. 

He reminded me that the summer math camp he did last year for four weeks focused on Geometry (though in a more creative and less systematic way), so he has more background with it than most kids. Also, he finds his current AOPS class not that hard, so I think it should be OK to have two going at the same time for a bit.

It'll be interesting to see what he thinks of school math next year...

Thanks, everyone. Emily