If you did Beast Academy from 2 or 3 through 5, did you still do chapter 1 of AOPS Pre-Algebra?

[Tsuga]

The question's in the title. I'd love your feedback. My child is preparing to skip 1/2 of the pre-algebra section for school.

Here's the thing. She needs the algebra-algebra stuff at the end of the book.

And looking at Chapter 1, I see properties of arithmetic (summing to 10/distributive property), multiplication, associative property of multiplication, negation, basic subtraction with negative numbers, reciprocals, division, and challenge problems.

I think of all these, the only new concept is reciprocals. She's familiar with exponents as well. Most of this she either learned in Beast Academy, or at school in her Horizons math book. 

If we pick and choose questions at the end of the sections, do you think she'll be missing out? It doesn't look like it to me, but then... I've never taught 5th grade math before.

For the record, the test she will be taking over the summer is this:

http://www.corefocusonmath.com/

Stage 1. Whatever the competencies are--I'm looking into it. The testers will say "take our all-summer class for $1,000" so they're not a ton of help. I know my child and I know that rest and recreation is important to her long-term health so I'm not doing summer school at that level, period. I want to continue AOPS because I feel it's been perfect for her critical/creative-thinking but challenge-averse self.

Thanks for your thoughts on this!

[rebbyribs]

Has she used Alcumus? I tried it out for a while, and was thinking to let my daughter use it as her math over the summer and see what topics in Pre-Algebra she masters and which ones we should work through in the AOPS book.

[Tsuga]

No, I don't do online math. My kids get plenty of screen time so I'm loathe to add to it, especially not for test prep. But it seems like you're suggesting it for placement, is that right? That's an interesting idea, I didn't think of that. Thank you!

[Porridge]

For DD, even though she remembered the concepts, doing chapter 1 helped her to transition from Beast to AOPS— the style of AOPS is very different from Beast. Tacking it with something you’re already familiar with might be easier.

[Targhee]

DS did BA 3A-5B and yes, we still did the first chapters of AoPS preA. He did say “I learned this in Beast” but he also was getting accustomed to the AoPS book and still had challenging questions.  

I think you could try a few problems from the chapter review section and gauge whether or not the material is mastered.  If so move forward, if not do the chapter.  I know you said you don’t do online math, but I will second the suggestion of alcumus anyway.  Can she pass the topics (into the blue)? If so that’s another way to determine that she’s mastered the content and doesn’t need to do the chapter.

[nixpix5]

On the AoP website they have two quick tests to determine who should do pre-algebra and who should skip it. It might be worth taking a look at if you haven't already. 

 

https://artofproblemsolving.com/store/item/prealgebra

[Roadrunner]

Don’t skip it. If she knows it, she will zoom through it and if there is something new there, she will learn. I am assuming she is a math lover if she is using AOPS. So let her enjoy some of the little proofs in that chapter. It’s very different from Beast.

[Tsuga]

Okay, okay, I think in my heart I knew you all would say it, but it's such a time crunch that I was hoping you'd let me get out of it.

Re: skipping pre-algebra altogether, it's definitely a hard choice--we are sort of skipping one year in middle school but the school district won't even let the gifted kids skip more. You have to pull them out and put them in college or private school.

We aren't considering skipping all of pre-algebra for a few reasons. 1, geometry is in high school and she's not going to high school in 7th grade, end of story. If she were profoundly gifted fine, but that's not a need for this particular kid. 2, Even if she were profoundly gifted she has a rather extreme social need to be part of a group and belong so we'd have to find an alternative and 3, she's the type of person to get anxious if she doesn't fully get it, one of those girls who lacks the confidence to charge ahead, so even if she put in the time and finished the test (which she could if I trained her, versus taught her) I don't think it would serve her well confidence-wise and it would bite her later when she went to take high-school level exams like the PSAT.

Thanks everyone for your input. We'll start doing it concurrently with BA. She loves Beast Academy. They are her math friends. I wish we could buy like... a stuffy to go with the AOPS book.

[Roadrunner]

I am with Rusczyk when he says that acceleration isn’t the answer. I know so many accelerated kids in our district and their math knowledge is paper thin despite their impressive class course names. Chew on AOPS, slowly. :)

[Tsuga]

I agree on acceleration but the problem with their current course is that she has already done the entire 6th and 7th grade math because of the spiral...I'll let her lead AOPS in terms of skill. But I do not want another year of her coming home saying "why do I have to do 30 of the SAME PROBLEM?!?!" if I don't have to. They spend like a month on negative numbers. :/ I'm pretty sure she'd rather dig a hole than go through more head-banging repetition... "when am I going to learn math in school and stop afterschooling?" is a real question for her.

[Roadrunner]

1 hour ago, Tsuga said:

I agree on acceleration but the problem with their current course is that she has already done the entire 6th and 7th grade math because of the spiral...I'll let her lead AOPS in terms of skill. But I do not want another year of her coming home saying "why do I have to do 30 of the SAME PROBLEM?!?!" if I don't have to. They spend like a month on negative numbers. :/ I'm pretty sure she'd rather dig a hole than go through more head-banging repetition... "when am I going to learn math in school and stop afterschooling?" is a real question for her.

Which grade is she in? If she is in 6th or 7th, I would skip the basic problems that you might find at the end of section exercises. Have her work through proofs and the challenging problems, and those challenging problems aren’t all in the challenging section. You will know just looking at problems what is straightforward and what isn’t. Also a third of that book deals with topics other than arithmetic and they are absolutely worth doing as written. If she is in 8th grade, you can maybe try Intro to Algebra instead. That’s what I would do at least. 

[Tsuga]

5th. We don't plan to skip the book. I was just thinking chapter 1 was heavily review. She will skip 1/2 of the school's pre-algebra sequence if she passes the test. That is 6th grade math equivalent.

[daijobu]

While I think chapter 1 is technically skippable if you are already familiar with it, I found that chapter to be very difficult, dense reading.  Probably because it was so familiar to me.   Recall, this is the chapter where we define negation, in contrast to negative numbers.  The book also defines subtraction, reciprocals, and division.  It's all a great exercise and an introduction to the rigor of formal mathematics.  This depth helps provide more of the back story on these previously mundane operations.  

[hellen]

 You may be able to cover it in 1 - 3 days.  The pace for the online classes is .5 - 2 chapters per week with 1 chapter per week being pretty common, so doing it that quickly isn't crazy.

 

 

[Tsuga]

2 hours ago, hellen said:

 You may be able to cover it in 1 - 3 days.  The pace for the online classes is .5 - 2 chapters per week with 1 chapter per week being pretty common, so doing it that quickly isn't crazy.

That is super helpful to know, thank you! We have 13 weeks until the test and she definitely doesn't need the entire book, so that sounds very do-able.

[Roadrunner]

If you are just prepping her to for a public school placement test, I would pick anything but AoPS. Use something the school is using for test prep and come back to AOPS when you have time to spend on it. 

[Tsuga]

12 minutes ago, Roadrunner said:

If you are just prepping her to for a public school placement test, I would pick anything but AoPS. Use something the school is using for test prep and come back to AOPS when you have time to spend on it. 

This doesn't align with my experience of math or math tests.

It's not a percentile test: she just has to pass. The concepts are laid out, so I know what the test covers, and it's similar to AoPS Prealgebra. If she's studied AoPS and fails the test, then she's not ready--she hasn't understood the concepts. Solid knowledge will transfer.

Moreover, if I'm sitting my kid in math through the summer it had better be useful. I have told her that she can pass the test or not, the goal is to show her knowledge and be able to be placed where she will learn the most. That's all I ask. We will continue supplementing with AoPS whether she's in the first or second year or not. The difference will be how much we do in addition to school.

So I appreciate the advice, it makes sense if the goal is just to jump the queue, but we're not so much prepping to pass as we are to know. We are in an urban area and if she is not getting the education she needs because she failed the test, we have plenty of choices.

She has passed the math section of the gifted test three times and consistently placed several grade levels ahead in math. She is not accelerated because of English requirements. That's a whole other bone to pick.

[LMD]

I wouldn't skip it.

Dd did most of BA5, as well as some other preA things, but we still found ch 1 interesting, challenging and important. It really introduces a new way of thinking about math and has their usual challenge questions.