still need science help

[kristin0713]

I've been researching science programs like mad.  I decided on Masterbooks General Science 1 & 2 for my upcoming 7th grader.  I'm going to get both sets and have her pick one unit at a time.  She wants to do minerals, fossils, geology type subjects.  I think this will be generally independent for her with my supervision and help.

I'm struggling to find something for my upcoming 5th grade DS.  He said he wants chemistry, but what he really wants is to be able to mix a lot of things together and see what happens. I am not opposed to that, but I want it to be fairly independent.  He is very capable and thorough with this sort of thing. Reading a textbook would make him cry, but following the directions for an experiment and then thoroughly cleaning up, he can totally do that. 

The three I keep looking at are--

1) Mystery Science - this format was engaging for my kids and the supplies were easy to find; downside is that there is not much chemistry and it's not even a full year's worth of different topics considering that we have done a lot of the units already. Also, I prefer a Christian worldview.

2) Masterbooks Science Starters: Elementary Chemistry and Physics - This has enormous list of materials.  UGH!  I'm not sure how independent the books are, but it seems like he could follow the experiments on his own if I get all the stuff (again, ugh)

https://www.masterbooks.com/science-starters-elementary-chemistry-physics-pack

3) Real Science 4 Kids - I think I would get the K-4 set because we haven't studied chemistry yet, and I really want it to be as independent as possible.  But I am having trouble finding samples of this.  Any insight? Also, the website doesn't have a kit but I thought I heard somewhere that they sold kits for it. 

https://gravitaspublications.com/product/focus-on-bundle/

I looked at Nancy Larson but it's way over my budget.  I'd like to spend less than  $150 on the books and supplies for the year, even if I have to add grocery items through time to time. 

[Vintage81]

Just my opinion, but I think Mystery Science would be too light for a 5th grader, and like you said, there aren’t many chemistry mysteries. 

Have you seen Guesthollow’s chemistry? 

http://www.guesthollow.com/homeschool/science/otters_chemistry/chemistrybooks.html

She uses Real Science 4 Kids along with Ellen McHenry’s The Elements and Carbon Chemistry, plus a whole bunch of other books. The pdf schedule is free, so it might be worth a look. 

[kristin0713]

I agree about Mystery Science.  I just loved that it was so engaging and independent.  

I saw that GH schedule; it's just too involved for me with the different programs and books.  I still feel like at 5th grade this is more about exposure than anything else. We are focusing on math and LA intensively and doing science and history 2-3 times a week with my oversight but on their own as much as possible.  I want him to be able to follow a book, understand the scientific method, do the experiments, and keep track of his results. 

I looked at Christian Kids Explore--this is probably a really dumb reason to not consider it,  but I don't like that the font of the book is Comic Sans. It just looks really babyish to me.  And I can't tell if it is something he could follow on his own or not. 

[SilverMoon]

.

Edited May 23, 2023 by SilverMoon

[kristin0713]

Oh, I was mistaken.  RS4K is the one printed in Comic Sans.  I'll look at CKE again. And I'll check out the GH schedule, too.  Thanks!

 

Any other suggestions? I know these programs use simple materials, but I really wish there was one that came with a kit.  

[carriede]

We're using Elemental Science's Chemistry. The experiments are mostly found in Janice VanCleave's Chemistry for Every Kid with others written into the instructions. I could definitely see handing those off the a 5th grader to do.  There are also research days, but the books used are cool little topical books that a 5th grader would enjoy, I think.

It includes a workbook with a place to write the research (4-8 sentences a week) and experiment pages. There's a complete supply list and a kit available from the publisher.

[alisha]

For what you're looking for, I wouldn't pick RS4K. It's rather heavy in the text and one experiment per chapter, is fine, but I don't feel it's a very independent experiment. Some of them were, but others were not. Those that were simple enough to do on their own was too simple (mixing lemon juice with milk and seeing the changes).

I would also suggest that you choose the Middle Grade rather than the Elementary level one. I read somewhere that the grade levels are below what's listed. I have my 3rd grader doing the Middle level with his older brother and it's been fine. When I was choosing the materials, I read somewhere that it's a year or two below grade level. For instance, the K-4 level is really best for K-2 or 3, and the middle level good for 4-6. Or something like that.

Other than just using a book with just science experiments and explanations (like 365 simple science experiments with everyday items, or Janice Van Cleave books), I haven't found anything. 

Also, the samples are hard to find. They are on the publishers website: gravitaspublications.com in the "getting started" tab, just above the lizzard it says "Samples", so click there and on the next page, you can go down and see 3 chapters of each subject in elementary or middle school book.

[mom@shiloh]

I was just looking over A Reason for Science.  They have a level for each grade.  I'm not sure if one level deals more with chemistry or not, but it seemed to include lots of hands-on activities.  There was a supply kit that could be purchased from Home Science Tools, but in looking over the supply list, i think most things would be pretty easy to gather yourself with less expense.

I also came across this: https://www.homeschoolsciencepress.com/shop

They have an e-book which is specifically about chemistry experiments.  It looks as if it's geared more toward the high school level, but once again, they say that most of the supplies are easy to find and maybe it can be adapted to suit your needs.

[TheAttachedMama]

I too think that Mystery Science is light for the 5th grade.   Even the few labs that are for that age are very very basic.   

I would highly, highly recommend http://www.explorationeducation.com/.    It is a PHYSICAL science course, so it combines physics and chemistry concepts.

My kids cheer and jump up and down when they have this assigned.   (And isn't that what we want from a science course at this age.)  

What I like about it:

1) You are learning science through experimentation and hands-on projects.   There is very little reading, lots and lots of doing.    Normally I am not a crafty, hands-on mom....but.....

2)  .....EVERYTHING you need for the labs comes shipped to you in a little box.  EVERYTHING.   So it makes it incredibly easy to actually get the labs finished.   I was NEVER able to stay consistent with labs until this year.   And I really mean...EVERYTHING is included in the box.    You know how some science guides say they are giving you everything, but then you really need to find "common household objects that you never have at your house?   Then you have to drive all over town on some crazy scavenger hunt looking for metal paper clips, jello, a plastic cup, and a 1" bolt (or crazy things like that)?   Well, that never happens with this science curriculum.    If memory serves me correctly, the only thing you need to provide is a hot glue gun and batteries.  But the book is very upfront that you need to purchase those.

3)  All of the directions to the science experiments are available digitally and written to the student.   (You can read them on a computer, CD, or ipad/phone.  And if your child has a learning disability, you can download a "speak it" plug in for your browser which will read the directions when you highlight them.) And they even have little movies which demonstrate the steps to the experiment sort of like Mystery Science does.   This has been great for my kids!  They have learned how to follow instructions and build complex projects--which was a skill they were sorely lacking before.   (I had to give them a few training sessions on how to not skip steps, read directions carefully, take care of your supplies.)   

NOTE:  There are a few labs which require adult supervision because they have the potental to be dangerous.   (For example, the lab on fuses.)   However, there are about 50 warning reminders to go get a parent...and about 50 more reminders to the parent to go and help your kid.   

4)  The students build more complex projects that they use in the labs which is really fun for the kids.  For example, when you first start out you build a little battery powered car that you use to explore Newton's laws of motion, gravity, and simple machines.    The kids had so much fun playing with their car!  For the the electricity / electronics section, you build a little circuit and modify it to complete all of the labs.  When you are exploring magnetism, at the end you build a little motor and explore how magnets / current effect the motor direction.   Just fun little projects like that.    Some of the projects are better than other, for example, with sound you build a rubber band guitar which was sort of lame...but they all work well.  (And we are the type of people who always fail at science labs.)   And if they don't.....

5)....The customer service is FANTASTIC.   If something doesn't work, the guy who wrote the program (a homeschool dad who teaches science in a school setting) will help you troubleshoot, send out parts for free (if you break something), etc.    My kids have been doing the labs mostly independently, and they have been able to troubleshoot all problems themselves.   (For example, at one point, they glued something too far away so it wasn't making contact with the battery.  They had to figure this out themselves which again is a valuable skill to learn.)   

 

Cons:

1)  I think the science reading is a little light.   They have a little blurb you read before the lab which explain the science.  They are fine, just light.   (We are a science loving family.  So maybe they would be fine for people who don't love science as much as us.)    Because of this, I have added in the associated reading from our QR Linked Usborne Science Encyclopedia and my kids use their ipads to scan the QR code and watch the videos.)   I have also assigned related brain pop videos (we are huge brain pop fans!)   When I have my act together, I will also check out related books from the library and give them free reading time from the shelf.

2)  We also do not put a lot of emphasis in the quizes that come with Exploration Education.   Instead, we made flashcards for the terms & equations & laws from the usborne encyclopedia and review those instead.   

Summary:

In short, I think Exploration Education is a great source for doing physical science labs for kids.    I am using it as the spine/lab portion of our homeschool science.  Then I add in additional reading / videos from other books.  (There are SO many great physical science books for this age that it is hard not to make use of them.)   

[ktgrok]

Check out Noeo science...no textbook, instead it is a set of topical books that are less intimidating and more interesting. Plus an experiment kit. 

 

Or, he's in5th grade. get him a big book of chemistry experiments, a really cool chemistry set, and turn him loose. Teach him to write up a lab report for them. Watch some chemistry videos on crash course kids and call it good. 

[kristin0713]

Oh!! Exploring Education looks really good! Can I print out all the directions?  How many days a week do you do experiments?

[TheAttachedMama]

On 4/6/2018 at 5:31 PM, kristin0713 said:

Oh!! Exploring Education looks really good! Can I print out all the directions?  How many days a week do you do experiments?

 

No, you can't print out the directions.   WELL---they are web-based (or CD based), so I guess you **could** technically print them.   However, I am going to guess it would waste a ton of ink and may not be formatted correctly.   Plus, you would then miss all of the videos.   (It would be like trying to print out the mystery science directions.   It would be so much better to just watch online.   You know?)   You can watch and read on your smartphone, a laptop, a tablet, a desktop, your amazon firestick...basically anything that can get to a web browser with.

To answer your questions about how many days/labs and how long everything takes:

The course is divided into 36 chapters.  Each chapter has 3 lessons, so I think it is designed so that you spend 3 days per week on science.   Each lesson has a very short reading (done online or via the CD) and each lesson has a lab/experiment/project to build (directions are also online or on the CD).   The 36 chapters are divided into 8 units and there is a quiz on vocabulary terms at the end of each unit that replaces a lab.  (We put very little emphasis on the quizes because I don't think they are that great personally.)   

We personally prefer to do a whole week's worth of science on one day.   That way we are only dragging out all of the stuff one day per week.   This has worked out GREAT this year.  The other days per week, the kids just review and drill some memory work flashcards that I have made for them so they don't forget anything.  (Newton's laws, vocabulary, basic concepts, etc.)    

We find that we are able to get all of our science in easily in one longer day.   I made a master "checklist of assignments" and the kids just work at their own pace until we have to leave for our field trip / co-op.   They pick up wherever they left off next "Physics Day".  

How long does it take:

We are having a "Physical Science Day" today.    So here is exactly what my kids were able to finish (they check off assignments as they go working at their own pace).    They work together as lab partners, so there is a bit of time wasted giggling and being silly with their siblings if you know what I mean.  They started around 7AM (we are early risers) and have been working happily having fun for about 3 hours.   They have been doing this independently with me nearby if they need assistance.   The rest of the week they will review vocabulary and basic concepts that I have pulled from the Usborne Science Encylopedia/BrainPop.   (Again, you don't necessarily NEED to add any additional reading, videos, or review to the Exploration Education program.   We just did because we like these resources.   When we did simple machines, we did a lot of reading from The Way Things Work Now. Some weeks I have them read from library books on the topic for a set amount of time.  However, I didn't have my act together to get any library books about this topic this week.)

• Read Usborne Science Encyclopedia pp. 234-235, Watch QR linked video (Topics- Electromagnets and Motors)
• Exploration Education Lesson 16.3 (Electromagnets)
• Experiment:  Build and experiment with an electromagnet
• Exploration Education Chapter 17.1 (Uses of Magnets)
• Project:  Complete worksheet in lab book and build motor part 1 instructions
• Exploration Education Chapter 17.2 (Generators and Motors)
• Activity:  Complete worksheet in lab book and build motor part 2 instructions
• Watch Brain Pop Videos on Electromagnets, Electromagnetic Induction, and Tesla
• Exploration Education 17.3 Magnets and Motors
• Activity:  Magnetic field and the motor
• Exploration Education 18.1 Motors and DC Current
• Experiment:  magnets/currents effect on the motor direction

The kids have a lot of fun learning science this way.   We don't require a ton of written output in science.   (No outlining or written narrations in science, but they do fill out their EE lab manuals.)   

I hope that helps some to see how we use the program.   

[kristin0713]

Thank you so much for all of that detail! I really appreciate it! I have been looking at this program a lot since you posted it, and I do think it is perfect for my DS.  They will be at the CHAP convention in June so I will take a good look at it there, but I'm pretty sure I am going to get him the advanced course.  He can totally handle the projects and I know he will love them.  I don't mind at all helping for the dangerous activities.  Things like building the models and wiring them, I'm sure he will do a great job, he is just very skilled in that way. 

Now I'm stuck again for my DD.  She is saying she also wants experiments now.  I really do not want to put them in the same program because 1) They will fight if they are doing one project together, but they will compare if they are doing the same project separately.  2) DS, who is two years younger, is incredibly skilled at engineering type things and he will rock this program; DD will need help but not want to accept help.  3) I really think DD will get bored of the physics part.  She wants the thrill of mixing stuff together to see what happens, but I don't think she will care much about the models. 

So now I'm pondering two possibilities--get DS Exploring Education and get DD Elemental Science (chemistry), or get Exploring Education for both of them but have DS start at the beginning and have DD start in the middle with chemistry.  Then when DS gets to the chemistry section, I can buy another kit if we need more materials.  I'm almost positive DD will not want to do the physics projects after she finishes the second half of the program. If she does, I can buy another full set of materials so they can each do the half that they didn't do yet.  This is also a cheaper option than getting them each a separate program.  The other thing I'm wondering about doing it that way is if DD will miss important info from the beginning of the course?  Or is it all separated topically so that doesn't really matter?  I can ask the company this when I see them at the convention, too.  Although I don't think Elemental Science will be there for me to look at that one. 

[ghcostafamily]

Is Exploring Education a Christian based curriculum? Cant find any info on their site, so im assuming not....But their stuff looks really nice! And the text to speech is a total bonus for my kiddos!

[kristin0713]

8 hours ago, ghcostafamily said:

Is Exploring Education a Christian based curriculum? Cant find any info on their site, so im assuming not....But their stuff looks really nice! And the text to speech is a total bonus for my kiddos!

I’m not sure, but with this subject matter I’m not concerned. I’m going to thoroughly check it out at the CHAP convention in June. I just wish Elemental Science was going to be there as well.

[TheAttachedMama]

9 hours ago, ghcostafamily said:

Is Exploring Education a Christian based curriculum? Cant find any info on their site, so im assuming not....But their stuff looks really nice! And the text to speech is a total bonus for my kiddos!

 

We are in week 19, and there has been no religious content whatsoever.    

[Jenkins]

What about master books Gods design? (Same content as answers in genesis - Gods design) They have reworked it and the whole program is supposed to be very user friendly. I think we are going to give this one a try for next year. 

[TheAttachedMama]

On 4/11/2018 at 8:40 PM, kristin0713 said:

So now I'm pondering two possibilities--get DS Exploring Education and get DD Elemental Science (chemistry), or get Exploring Education for both of them but have DS start at the beginning and have DD start in the middle with chemistry.  Then when DS gets to the chemistry section, I can buy another kit if we need more materials.  I'm almost positive DD will not want to do the physics projects after she finishes the second half of the program. If she does, I can buy another full set of materials so they can each do the half that they didn't do yet.  This is also a cheaper option than getting them each a separate program.  The other thing I'm wondering about doing it that way is if DD will miss important info from the beginning of the course?  Or is it all separated topically so that doesn't really matter?  I can ask the company this when I see them at the convention, too.  Although I don't think Elemental Science will be there for me to look at that one. 

FWIW, the Chemistry section of Exploration Education is very short and very basic.   I was fine with that because we spent a whole year studying elementary level chemistry last year.  So it gave us a nice review.   However, if you are looking to focus on Chemistry next year, I think you will be disappointed with *just* Exploration Education.   It covers just enough chemistry to explain some basic concepts in physics.   

We've used Elemental science before.   (We used part of the Elementary Chemistry and part of the Elementary Biology.)  Have you ever read the WTM science chapters?   Elemental science follows that plan very closely...just in a nice little, easy to use lesson plan format.   (And I admit that it is a better lesson plan than I would be able to come up with given my limited time.)   It schedules readings, memory work, vocabulary words, etc. etc.   It is not the most exciting science in the world, but it is thorough and easy to use.  The labs in Elemental Chemistry were fine.   

 

[kristin0713]

4 hours ago, Taren said:

What about master books Gods design? (Same content as answers in genesis - Gods design) They have reworked it and the whole program is supposed to be very user friendly. I think we are going to give this one a try for next year. 

Nothing I can find by Masterbooks comes with the hands-on materials, unless I am missing something.  My kids want "experiments" and I really, really need science to come with the "stuff" in order to keep my stress level manageable.  

[kristin0713]

2 hours ago, TheAttachedMama said:

FWIW, the Chemistry section of Exploration Education is very short and very basic.   I was fine with that because we spent a whole year studying elementary level chemistry last year.  So it gave us a nice review.   However, if you are looking to focus on Chemistry next year, I think you will be disappointed with *just* Exploration Education.   It covers just enough chemistry to explain some basic concepts in physics.   

We've used Elemental science before.   (We used part of the Elementary Chemistry and part of the Elementary Biology.)  Have you ever read the WTM science chapters?   Elemental science follows that plan very closely...just in a nice little, easy to use lesson plan format.   (And I admit that it is a better lesson plan than I would be able to come up with given my limited time.)   It schedules readings, memory work, vocabulary words, etc. etc.   It is not the most exciting science in the world, but it is thorough and easy to use.  The labs in Elemental Chemistry were fine.   

 

Thank you, your replies have been SO helpful!  My DD is very strong in reading comprehension / textbook type work so I think that would be a good fit for her, and she will be happy to have the experiments.  I really am more inclined to keep them separate for so many reasons.  

Phew, I'm so glad to have a plan for next year! 

[ghcostafamily]

14 hours ago, kristin0713 said:

I’m not sure, but with this subject matter I’m not concerned. I’m going to thoroughly check it out at the CHAP convention in June. I just wish Elemental Science was going to be there as well.

Very true! 

13 hours ago, TheAttachedMama said:

 

We are in week 19, and there has been no religious content whatsoever.    

Thank you!