With this schedule, will PAH APUSH be overload?

[Joyful]

As a reference, DS1 is taking the following this year:

AoPS Precalc

Pre-AP Honors Chem w/ TPS

AP Macro & Micro Econ w/ PAH

Hist using TOG

English 10 using TOG

Latin using Cambridge Latin books IV & V w/ tutor

 

It was quite a challenge for him to get used to the workload in the fall, but he's adjusted to it after a few months. From time to time though, he'll still be a bit stressed with the amount of work. He's getting A's in his courses. His extracurricular are piano and chess (plays at a local club one evening a week, but not much studying)

 

So, I'm trying to think of how to schedule the last 2 years of HS for DS1. Here is what are certain for grade 11:

AoPS Calculus with AP Calc BC exam

AP Physic C with PAH

Advanced Composition (Honors w/ TPS)

elective

 

and grade 12:

DE college math (depends on what is available and fits with schedule)

AP Chem with PAH or Chem Advantage

AP Eng Lang and Composition

 

So, he'd like to take APUSH either year.

 

For Latin, he has 2 options: 1) Latin readings for gr11, and AP Latin for gr12; or 2) AP Latin for gr11, and independent studies for gr12 or do another elective. He's not too fond of literary analysis (and there's a lot of that in AP Latin) even though he likes learning the language. So, I'm thinking perhaps another year will give him some more confidence to tackle the literary analysis in AP Latin and all the reading.

 

If he does AP Latin and APUSH in gr12, then he will be carrying 5 college level courses. I worry that that would be too much.

 

But then, if he does either APUSH or AP Latin in gr 11, I worry that it might be too difficult also, given that he will be taking AP math and science.

 

These are courses that he's interested in, and would put work into. But I also want him to have some buffer time to think, and explore since he doesn't know what he'd like to major in, although STEM seems likely. I've been flipping back and forth in my mind, still no answer... DS1 is not sure which to choose either. Since we are overseas, and his friends attend local school, he doesn't have a reference point. What do you suggest?

 

(PS - I would need to outsource Latin and APUSH...)

 

[snowbeltmom]

I have no suggestions on the AP History and Latin dilemma, but do have a suggestion that you didn't ask about: I would consider taking AP Chemistry in 11th (PA Homeschoolers and ChemAdvatntage are the same provider) and AP Physics C in 12th grade. Physics C is much easier if the student isn't also learning calculus concurrently, and AP Chemistry will most likely be easier if taken immediately after a year of high school level chemistry while that material is still fresh.

[8filltheheart]

I have no suggestions on the AP History and Latin dilemma, but do have a suggestion that you didn't ask about: I would consider taking AP Chemistry in 11th (PA Homeschoolers and ChemAdvatntage are the same provider) and AP Physics C in 12th grade. Physics C is much easier if the student isn't also learning calculus concurrently, and AP Chemistry will most likely be easier if taken immediately after a year of high school level chemistry while that material is still fresh.

That was my immediate reaction, as well. I, equally, have no suggestions for your dilemma bc we don't focus that much on APs. But, our ds took AoPS cal and AP Chen through PAH at the same time and it wasn't overwhelming.

[Kathy in Richmond]

And I had the same reaction before reading snowbeltmom's and 8Fill's responses.

 

Take AP Chem next year while his knowledge of chem is still fresh. Take AP Physics C after calculus is completed. I've taught this class, and it's much easier to concentrate on the physics when derivatives and integrals are automatic, not brand new. I've seen too many kids struggle while taking both simultaneously.

 

As for AP Latin, it sounds like he's ready. Would he be working with a tutor still? If so, then would he have the flexibility to change his mind mid-stream to Latin readings if necessary? My kids found AP Latin to be time consuming, but not really tough once they'd mastered the basics. My son also had a dislike of literary analysis, but it wasn't too bad (grade 11 also). I showed him examples of graded AP essays from the CB archives, and he was able to use those to get an idea of how to model his own essay answers.

 

No knowledge of AP history here...neither of mine wanted to do those courses.

 

I would recommend building some margin into the 12th grade year. College and scholarship applications are time and energy consuming!

[katilac]

 I would recommend building some margin into the 12th grade year. College and scholarship applications are time and energy consuming!

 

This, a thousand times. Plus time to talk to colleges and departments about the nitty-gritty specifics, sometimes interviews have to be scheduled . . . 

[Joyful]

That is certainly something that I hadn't considered before. I'm so glad that you (3) have brought it up! I'll talk to DS about your advice about taking AP Chem next year instead of AP Physics. He was kind of looking forward to doing some physics. (Maybe he can do a little work on it over the summer?)

 

I can understand how being fluent with the Calc will make doing Physics C easier. So, when the teachers say that it is all right to take the two courses concurrently, is it because they think that the students can grind through it, even though not so smoothly?

[Joyful]

As for AP Latin, it sounds like he's ready. Would he be working with a tutor still? If so, then would he have the flexibility to change his mind mid-stream to Latin readings if necessary? My kids found AP Latin to be time consuming, but not really tough once they'd mastered the basics. My son also had a dislike of literary analysis, but it wasn't too bad (grade 11 also). I showed him examples of graded AP essays from the CB archives, and he was able to use those to get an idea of how to model his own essay answers.

 

Glad to know that AP Latin is workable for gr11! I was thinking of trying the course at TPS, since the schedule is doable from Asia. (Not so excited about meeting twice a week, though). I did ask our current tutor. Although he's helped students with prepping for the SAT subject test, he's unfamiliar with the AP test. Also, he noted that he's not very good with literary analysis. But he'll be available for tutoring help as needed.

 

DS will probably have to work a bit harder, since your kids excelled academically. :thumbup: But I'll factor in the fact that it still can be workable. I'll have to check the TPS policy, but our tutor will be fine to support DS if he needs to drop AP Latin after a few weeks.

[Joyful]

I would recommend building some margin into the 12th grade year. College and scholarship applications are time and energy consuming!

 

 

This, a thousand times. Plus time to talk to colleges and departments about the nitty-gritty specifics, sometimes interviews have to be scheduled . . . 

 

OK. Makes sense. Thanks!

So, should he be looking at 5 courses: DE math, AP Physics (or Chem if he insists on doing Phys first), AP English Language & Comp, Latin readings, and an elective? Or less?

 

I'm so glad I asked about this. Together, you've pointed out issues that I hadn't thought of before. (thank you, thank you) By myself, I'd been spinning around trying to imagine how things might be on my own for a few nights without getting anywhere.

[Kathy in Richmond]

That is certainly something that I hadn't considered before. I'm so glad that you (3) have brought it up! I'll talk to DS about your advice about taking AP Chem next year instead of AP Physics. He was kind of looking forward to doing some physics. (Maybe he can do a little work on it over the summer?)

 

I can understand how being fluent with the Calc will make doing Physics C easier. So, when the teachers say that it is all right to take the two courses concurrently, is it because they think that the students can grind through it, even though not so smoothly?

 

Yes, I suppose you could do both simultaneously, but it's not ideal. Factor in more time, especially in the beginning of the year, if you do choose that route. It would also be a good idea to get a head start on calculus over the summer.

 

In the old days when I was in college, we didn't start the calc-based physics till spring semester of freshman year. Then you've already mastered basic calc when you're doing mechanics, and you're in multivariable calc when doing E&M. The latter requires line integrals (from multivar calc) to really understand concepts like conservative forces. And you do a lot of integrals in E&M; it's great to have mastered them first.

 

Since my kids wanted to start our science classes in September (and since May AP testing is constraining that way), we waited till finishing Calc BC & took Physics C simultaneously with multivariable calc.

 

I understand having a kid who's anxious to do physics and not so crazy about chem!

 

Glad to know that AP Latin is workable for gr11! I was thinking of trying the course at TPS, since the schedule is doable from Asia. (Not so excited about meeting twice a week, though). I did ask our current tutor. Although he's helped students with prepping for the SAT subject test, he's unfamiliar with the AP test. Also, he noted that he's not very good with literary analysis. But he'll be available for tutoring help as needed.

 

He might like the Caesar part of AP Latin...all that war stuff!  Vergil, on the hand, is poetry, and has more of the literary analysis. Still, the stories are good and were intriguing enough for my son to enjoy. The AP test is half reading unknown passages on the MC (get Excelability and look at old level 5/6 NLE exams for practice) and half FRQs on Caesar and Vergil.

 

Not all of the FRQs are essays either! I just googled last year's exam, and 2 of the FRQs were literal translations, 2 were sets of short answer questions, and 1 was an essay. That's not so bad!

[Kathy in Richmond]

OK. Makes sense. Thanks!

So, should he be looking at 5 courses: DE math, AP Physics (or Chem if he insists on doing Phys first), AP English Language & Comp, Latin readings, and an elective? Or less?

 

I'm so glad I asked about this. Together, you've pointed out issues that I hadn't thought of before. (thank you, thank you) By myself, I'd been spinning around trying to imagine how things might be on my own for a few nights without getting anywhere.

 

We did fewer APs and less outsourcing in grade 12 than in grade 11, and in retrospect were glad we did.

 

Ds did AP Bio, both Econs, and Latin Vergil (there were 2 AP Latins back then) in grade 12. They were all self-designed classes taken at home. He also self-studied advanced math that year and took a couple AoPS classes, and we did one short Write at Home research paper class to get him ready for college writing.

 

No dual enrollment here, so I can't comment on that. It would have been too much of a time suck commuting back and forth here. For electives he just did PE and piano and some programming; nothing he wouldn't have done in his free time anyway!

 

Your proposed schedule looks fine. Are you thinking of AP language with PA Homeschoolers? I couldn't get my son to do that, but my daughter took it in 11th grade. She loves reading and writing, and she found it quite time consuming.  So keep that in mind. Will you be doing any classes self-study at home? Outsourcing always added lots of time and stress here. :)

[Joyful]

Yes, I suppose you could do both simultaneously, but it's not ideal. Factor in more time, especially in the beginning of the year, if you do choose that route. It would also be a good idea to get a head start on calculus over the summer.

 

In the old days when I was in college, we didn't start the calc-based physics till spring semester of freshman year. Then you've already mastered basic calc when you're doing mechanics, and you're in multivariable calc when doing E&M. The latter requires line integrals (from multivar calc) to really understand concepts like conservative forces. And you do a lot of integrals in E&M; it's great to have mastered them first.

 

See, I was a bio major, so a lot of this is beyond me. I appreciate you explaining things to me.

 

So, the AoPS Calc course in the fall seems to have started in Oct for the past 2 years, if I remember correctly. That would then put him behind on the math, unless he starts working through the text on his own this spring/summer (which he might be willing to do, since his Precalc class finishes mid-March). I just checked the AoPS class schedule, and they have a Calculus class starting end of June and will finish Dec 15 or so. I took a quick look at the topics, it looks like by the time the AP Physics starts, they would be finished with chapters on derivatives, and would start on integrals. At least that gives DS some options if he's really dragging on the chem.

 

We did fewer APs and less outsourcing in grade 12 than in grade 11, and in retrospect were glad we did.

 

Ds did AP Bio, both Econs, and Latin Vergil (there were 2 AP Latins back then) in grade 12. They were all self-designed classes taken at home. He also self-studied advanced math that year and took a couple AoPS classes, and we did one short Write at Home research paper class to get him ready for college writing.

 

No dual enrollment here, so I can't comment on that. It would have been too much of a time suck commuting back and forth here. For electives he just did PE and piano and some programming; nothing he wouldn't have done in his free time anyway!

 

Your proposed schedule looks fine. Are you thinking of AP language with PA Homeschoolers? I couldn't get my son to do that, but my daughter took it in 11th grade. She loves reading and writing, and she found it quite time consuming.  So keep that in mind. Will you be doing any classes self-study at home? Outsourcing always added lots of time and stress here. :)

Yeah, outsourcing really locks in our schedule too. But our kids really like having some interactions with classmates and other teachers. It's their social entertainment. ;)  We were thinking of AP Lang with PAH, not with Maya Inspektor, but with Kathryn Walker. He loves to read. Writing, not so much. But he wants to put in the effort to keep improving. I'll keep the workload in mind, and maybe look for other venues for him to accomplish his goals.

 

He wanted to do APUSH because he likes history, and his PAH MacroEcon classmates were raving about what a great class that is. But one only has so much time...

[Kathy in Richmond]

See, I was a bio major, so a lot of this is beyond me. I appreciate you explaining things to me.

 

So, the AoPS Calc course in the fall seems to have started in Oct for the past 2 years, if I remember correctly. That would then put him behind on the math, unless he starts working through the text on his own this spring/summer (which he might be willing to do, since his Precalc class finishes mid-March). I just checked the AoPS class schedule, and they have a Calculus class starting end of June and will finish Dec 15 or so. I took a quick look at the topics, it looks like by the time the AP Physics starts, they would be finished with chapters on derivatives, and would start on integrals. At least that gives DS some options if he's really dragging on the chem.

 

Yeah, outsourcing really locks in our schedule too. But our kids really like having some interactions with classmates and other teachers. It's their social entertainment. ;)  We were thinking of AP Lang with PAH, not with Maya Inspektor, but with Kathryn Walker. He loves to read. Writing, not so much. But he wants to put in the effort to keep improving. I'll keep the workload in mind, and maybe look for other venues for him to accomplish his goals.

 

He wanted to do APUSH because he likes history, and his PAH MacroEcon classmates were raving about what a great class that is. But one only has so much time...

 

Starting AoPS calc in June sounds like a possibility if he has the time for it over the summer. 

 

My ds took a year off between chem and AP chem. He's like your son... couldn't wait to do physics and didn't particularly love chem. When he did start AP chem later, he had to re-memorize the basics (no fans of memorization here!) So when my dd got to that point, I had her do chem and AP chem in back-to-back years. It made the basics much easier since everything was fresh in her memory.

 

Oh, my kids liked their online friends, too, especially from AoPS and PA Homeschoolers. Dd did find that AP lang was a little reading (mostly essays or shorter pieces; only a handful of books) and a LOT of writing. Just a heads up.

 

I really, really wanted one of my kids to do APUSH because I'd had such a fantastic AP class in high school. But like you said, there's limited time & it never happened for us. Both of the kids went on to do history classes of their choice in college...though still no fans of US history. :001_smile:

[mjbucks1]

AoPS Calculus with AP Calc BC exam

AP Chem with PAH or Chem Advantage

Advanced Composition (Honors w/ TPS) 

elective (APUSH)

 

and grade 12:

DE college math (depends on what is available and fits with schedule)

AP Physic C with PAH

AP Eng Lang and Composition

AP Latin

 

My kids have taken all of the above classes with PA Homeschoolers, except AP Latin which was taken with Lukeion.  I think the schedule is a lot, but doable with a motivated student.  One thing that would be nice is to take AP Lit before AP Latin because that would help with the essays.  But 4 AP classes junior year would be a lot.  Also, I think AP Language and Composition would be nice to have for APUSH, but again that would place 4 AP classes in the junior year.  APUSH and AP Latin are time consuming, so I would not place them in the same year if it were me.  As an aside, my son hated lit analysis until he took AP Lit with Maya Inspektor at PA Homeschoolers.  He loved the class and finally enjoyed lit analysis! 

[Joyful]

Starting AoPS calc in June sounds like a possibility if he has the time for it over the summer. 

 

My ds took a year off between chem and AP chem. He's like your son... couldn't wait to do physics and didn't particularly love chem. When he did start AP chem later, he had to re-memorize the basics (no fans of memorization here!) So when my dd got to that point, I had her do chem and AP chem in back-to-back years. It made the basics much easier since everything was fresh in her memory.

 

Oh, my kids liked their online friends, too, especially from AoPS and PA Homeschoolers. Dd did find that AP lang was a little reading (mostly essays or shorter pieces; only a handful of books) and a LOT of writing. Just a heads up.

 

I really, really wanted one of my kids to do APUSH because I'd had such a fantastic AP class in high school. But like you said, there's limited time & it never happened for us. Both of the kids went on to do history classes of their choice in college...though still no fans of US history. :001_smile:

 

I hear what you mean about memorization. When DS got to a chapter in chem that was mostly math and not much to memorize, so to speak, he was so happy. But when I talked to him earlier tonight, he still wanted to give the physics a try. So, I ordered the Calculus books. And he said he would work through some physics as well.

 

The local library has copies of Conceptual Physics (11th ed), and even an earlier edition of the practice book. So, he'll work through that, or if he needs some extra, I'm considering DO physics.

 

Got it on the writing load for AP Lang. Will see how he does with next year's English course first. Maybe receiving writing instruction with a seasoned teacher will spark something? There's always hope... :D

 

Yeah, he's a bit disappointed about the APUSH... but he can always do a homemade course. :001_smile:

[Joyful]

My kids have taken all of the above classes with PA Homeschoolers, except AP Latin which was taken with Lukeion.  I think the schedule is a lot, but doable with a motivated student.  One thing that would be nice is to take AP Lit before AP Latin because that would help with the essays.  But 4 AP classes junior year would be a lot.  Also, I think AP Language and Composition would be nice to have for APUSH, but again that would place 4 AP classes in the junior year.  APUSH and AP Latin are time consuming, so I would not place them in the same year if it were me.  As an aside, my son hated lit analysis until he took AP Lit with Maya Inspektor at PA Homeschoolers.  He loved the class and finally enjoyed lit analysis!

 

Thanks for weighing in! Appreciate your feedback. Since I've read the replies to my post, I will not attempt to do 4 APs in his junior year. Although, if I could find an AP Latin course where the schedule works, then he'll do 3. (Most of the online AP Latin classes start past midnight in our time zone,... but that's for another thread.) We're going to skip the APUSH.

 

I've read so many rave reviews about Maya Inspektor. Your son's experience just shows how a great teacher can be a game changer. Maybe DD can take a class with her in a couple of years.

[daijobu]

My dd is a junior and was set to take AP physics C and AP calc BC this year.  Against my advice, she added AP Lang and Comp (Maya Inspektor).  Then she added APUSH.  

 

She's doing fine.  She is enjoying Inspektor's class so much she signed up for AP Lit with her next year.  

 

It is funny how she has friends overlapping between PAH, AoPS, and SOHS classes.  

[Joyful]

Just goes to show what happens when the student is motivated!

[Pink and Green Mom]

I just wanted to thank everyone for asking these questions and providing all this great info for a newbie on the AP Calculus BC and AP Physics C classes.  My youngest wants to be an aerospace engineer and will enter high school in Precalculus, so these discussions of what to take when and in what order are so helpful to me as I try to envision some sort of math and science sequence for him.  Thank you all so much!

[katilac]

 

I would recommend building some margin into the 12th grade year. College and scholarship applications are time and energy consuming!

 

I already agreed with this, but thought I would come back and give some true to life details. 

 

Looking strictly at stuff that has to be done in person, my dd has had six meetings and interviews in a month's time, totaling four one-hour each way drives and one two-hour each way drive with an overnight stay. 

 

Sussing out scholarships is time-consuming!