11y.o. and WISC Test Scores

[scbusf]

DS is 11, fairly bright, and was diagnosed with SPD back when he was 5. I also suspect that he has Dysgraphia, but we've never had him fully evaluated. He is very easily distracted and he can hyper focus on something he wants to.

 

We finally had him see a Psychologist and she ran some tests. I knew that she wouldn't diagnose Dysgraphia or anything like that, but figured it was a good starting point. My main purpose for doing this now was to get a formal diagnosis (if there was one) and start documenting a history of accommodations in case he needs them in college.

 

Conner's Continuous Performance Test II - 79.92

 

WISC-V

Full Scale 113

Verbal Comprehension  106

Visual Spatial  119

Fluid Reasoning  118

Working Memory  125

Processing Speed  98

 

Also, various behavior, Autism, and personality checklists.

 

Based on all of that, she diagnosed DS with ADHD - Primarily Inattentive and Generalized Anxiety Disorder. She said her opinion was that he is not on the ASD spectrum. The anxiety diagnosis was a bit of a surprise to me, but I know all of these things can overlap.

 

Her recommendations are to start therapy with him to work on Executive Functioning skills, social skills, and coping skills in general. She also said she'd refer us to a Psychiatrist if we wanted to discuss meds, which we don't at this point.

 

At this point, I'm thinking we don't need to pursue a Dysgraphia diagnosis - we can get him accommodations with the ADHD diagnosis. And I know that ADHD can cause issues with handwriting and schoolwork in general.

 

I guess my question is - Does this all seem reasonable? Do any of you see anything in those WISC scores that need further investigation? She did say that she thought the Full Scale IQ score wasn't accurate because the processing speed one was so much lower than she would expect.

 

I'd appreciate any input anyone has! Thank you!!!

 

ETA: Psychologist IS supportive of homeschooling. She said we'd be able to accommodate him much easier than being in school. Pretty much why we homeschooled in the first place.

Edited December 21, 2017 by scbusf

[Storygirl]

ADHD, anxiety, and the related EF issues can cause issues even without other learning disabilities. Did the psych run an achievement test such as Woodcock Johnson, to see where the academic skills are, compared to same grade peers?

 

Lower processing speed is common in kids with dysgraphia. There isn't a single test for dysgraphia, but one thing evaluators look at is the coding subtest of the WISC, which also is a measure of processing speed. The coding test is something like this -- there is a row of numbered boxes, each with a little symbol drawn in it. The student is given a row of boxes with the number only in it, and they have to copy the correct symbol into each box. Students with fine motor and/or handwriting difficulties are going to have trouble with this and end up with lower score.

 

Now, the test measures more than handwriting skills. It is meant to measure how the student is able to think through the exercise as well. Someone with slower processing is going to find the task more cumbersome and will take longer (even if they get all the answers correct). And even if they have no fine motor problems.

 

And there are different types of dysgraphia. One is a motor issue, which affects handwriting, etc. And the other is the ability to get thoughts onto paper, as in organizing thoughts and getting them down. DS13 has both of these issues. I'm not sure how many people with dysgraphia have both. And DD12 actually has SLD written expression diagnosed in her IEP, because her spelling was so terrible that her sentences were impossible to decipher (she has dyslexia), but she doesn't have either of the other two components of dysgraphia that I mentioned.

 

It can be a tricky diagnosis. The kind of accommodation and support needed in an IEP or 504 is going to depend on what your specific child's needs are. You can google IEP accommodations for dysgraphia (or SLD written expression, which is what schools call it) to see what you think your son might need. Whether or not those things would be addressed by addressing the ADHD... that depends. Not all of the accommodations that my kids get would be the same for their dysgraphia as for their ADHD.

[Storygirl]

Also, the average score for the test is 100. That processing speed score is average. BUT in comparison with the other scores, it is quite a lot lower. That discrepancy can cause difficulties, even though the actual number doesn't look low.

 

Were you concerned about possible ASD? You say the psych ran some screening tests and doesn't think it is there. But the fact that someone thought the test should be run shows that there are concerns about possible autism. ADHD plus anxiety plus slower processing plus SPD plus need for social skills training. I wonder if there is rigid thinking? Emotional regulation issues? (Those are things I might expect to go along with the others.) Those things can all be present without autism.

 

However, it doesn't sound like this psych is an expert in diagnosing autism and just ran a checklist like the GARS (?). I'll just say that if you have wondered if autism is present, you can get a more thorough screening than that, by an expert, to find out for certain, if you still wonder. It's just really possible for ASD to be missed by psychs who haven't been trained to evaluate for it thoroughly.

[geodob]

If he has handwriting difficulties, you could get an OT to diagnose 'fine motor difficulties'.

Which notes that it effects his handwriting.

Therefore he should be provided with accommodations that allow use of a keyboard, rather than handwriting.

Also provided with notes, rather having to take notes.

 

Also a record should be kept, of him using a keyboard for doing all tests.  With future accommodations, they are more interested in a documented history of using a keyboard.  A diagnosis is secondary.

 

While we have this term Dysgraphia, it isn't an official term and therefore doesn't have a definition. 

A handwriting difficulty, isn't recognised as a specific disorder.

Just as a difficulty with using a knife and fork, or scissors. Isn't recognised as disorders.

These are just symptoms.

 

 

[shinyhappypeople]

Why do you think he has dysgraphia?  

[scbusf]

To answer some question ......

 

Why do you think he has dysgraphia?  

 

He has always had difficulties with the actual fine motor part of handwriting (although, he has trouble with most fine motor tasks) and he also has problems with getting his thoughts onto paper. 

 

 

Also, the average score for the test is 100. That processing speed score is average. BUT in comparison with the other scores, it is quite a lot lower. That discrepancy can cause difficulties, even though the actual number doesn't look low.

 

Were you concerned about possible ASD? You say the psych ran some screening tests and doesn't think it is there. But the fact that someone thought the test should be run shows that there are concerns about possible autism. ADHD plus anxiety plus slower processing plus SPD plus need for social skills training. I wonder if there is rigid thinking? Emotional regulation issues? (Those are things I might expect to go along with the others.) Those things can all be present without autism.

 

However, it doesn't sound like this psych is an expert in diagnosing autism and just ran a checklist like the GARS (?). I'll just say that if you have wondered if autism is present, you can get a more thorough screening than that, by an expert, to find out for certain, if you still wonder. It's just really possible for ASD to be missed by psychs who haven't been trained to evaluate for it thoroughly.

 

I was only considering ASD because the Psychologist brought it up as one of the things she assesses for. The checklists she ran were: Autism Spectrum Rating Scale, Personality Inventory for Children, and Achenbach Child Behavior Checklist. He definitely has rigid thinking, and emotional regulation issues!!!

 

ADHD, anxiety, and the related EF issues can cause issues even without other learning disabilities. Did the psych run an achievement test such as Woodcock Johnson, to see where the academic skills are, compared to same grade peers?

 

Lower processing speed is common in kids with dysgraphia. There isn't a single test for dysgraphia, but one thing evaluators look at is the coding subtest of the WISC, which also is a measure of processing speed. The coding test is something like this -- there is a row of numbered boxes, each with a little symbol drawn in it. The student is given a row of boxes with the number only in it, and they have to copy the correct symbol into each box. Students with fine motor and/or handwriting difficulties are going to have trouble with this and end up with lower score.

 

Now, the test measures more than handwriting skills. It is meant to measure how the student is able to think through the exercise as well. Someone with slower processing is going to find the task more cumbersome and will take longer (even if they get all the answers correct). And even if they have no fine motor problems.

 

And there are different types of dysgraphia. One is a motor issue, which affects handwriting, etc. And the other is the ability to get thoughts onto paper, as in organizing thoughts and getting them down. DS13 has both of these issues. I'm not sure how many people with dysgraphia have both. And DD12 actually has SLD written expression diagnosed in her IEP, because her spelling was so terrible that her sentences were impossible to decipher (she has dyslexia), but she doesn't have either of the other two components of dysgraphia that I mentioned.

 

It can be a tricky diagnosis. The kind of accommodation and support needed in an IEP or 504 is going to depend on what your specific child's needs are. You can google IEP accommodations for dysgraphia (or SLD written expression, which is what schools call it) to see what you think your son might need. Whether or not those things would be addressed by addressing the ADHD... that depends. Not all of the accommodations that my kids get would be the same for their dysgraphia as for their ADHD.

 

 

No achievement test. If he has Dysgraphia, I'm sure he has both - fine motor issues and difficulty getting thoughts onto paper. But maybe I've been reading too much into everything and it's the ADHD causing these issues.

 

Thank you everyone for your thoughts!!!! I agree that these can be tricky diagnoses and there is so much overlap!!!

 

I think the accommodations he needs - and what we've already been doing are: quiet place for doing work (this is very difficult in our house!!!!), using a computer to type assignments, and he will probably need to be able to use an electronic device for notetaking in the future.

[Storygirl]

It sounds like dysgraphia to me, not just ADHD.

 

There are other accommodations that you can consider. DS13 had a huge list of recommendations from the school OT. You can find many ideas online, such as http://www.ldonline.org/article/6202

 

Look at lists like that and consider what will help your son, not only now but when he is high school and college. Remember colleges want to see a history of accommodations being used, so if he would benefit from having a note taker in his classes or getting copies of the teacher's notes from the board, for example, you would want to document needing and using those.

 

There are many things you can do to scaffold the writing process to help organization skills and reduce frustration as well. I think you can find some additional ideas.

 

The accommodations for ADHD would not be enough help for my son.

Edited December 23, 2017 by Storygirl

[Pawz4me]

DS19 (ASD-1, GAD, 2e) was only formally diagnosed at 17. He had no significant history of accommodations. And he's had no problem at all getting them at his university, only relying on the psychologist's report/recommendations and a doctor's note. I'm sure there can be a lot of variation from institution to institution, but in our experience a history of accommodations is not needed.

 

DS doesn't have a formal dysgraphia diagnosis, but visual/spatial deficits make handwriting, and especially note taking, challenging for him (and those challenges are detailed in the psychologist's report/recommendations). He's found a LiveScribe smart pen to be very useful.

[summerreading]

Sorry this isn't what you asked about but just wanted to share a few things

 

I think it would be worth pursuing a dysgraphia diagnosis if your insurance would cover OT for it. Otherwise, you would need to retest closer to college board tests for accommodations of a keyboard. 

 

My 11 yo is a bit ADDish, dyslexic and deals with anxiety issues. He takes a daily supplement Genexa Calm Keeper and he will ask for it if we forget. It seems to help him focus and calm down. I will have to start looking for something else natural b/c it's for kids up to 11. There are natural things that can help. He also likes using a deep breathing app. 

 

For EF skills, check out Smart but Scattered Teens.

[exercise_guru]

Have you considered testing him for CAPD(audiologist) and Vision Therapy(Pediatric optomologist) ?

 

I can share our experience not sure if it helpful. My son had WISC and all was high but working memory and a the processing speed . Both were normal but everything else was high. Based on this and some feedback from the Neuropsychologist and his teacher noting that he couldn't always hear her in class we pursued CAPD testing. Then on my own I pursued VT testing because the handwriting. 

 

My son had a very hard time getting his words on paper and his handwriting popped up and down and all over the place. There was definitely a visual motor component and there was also a trying to organize the words in his mind component. Can your son complete a clear dictation with a dication software or having you scribe for him? If so then I would consider it more of a visual motor component and ours certainly fell into dysgraphia area. If your son has a hard time coming up with clear sentences you can scribe I would consider it a CAPD component. 

 

We had both issues so I pursued Vision Therapy (3-4 months) and ILS together (100 hours at home). Then I pursued a handwriting method that was motor friendly ( Getty and Dubay  3-4 months) well now his teacher says his handwriting is comparable to other students so ..... I solved a problem so I guess there is an argument with the diagnosis. Also  the inattentiveness reduced to a point that the teacher doesn't feel there are any problems focusing and following directions in class as long as he is on the front row with minimal background noise. He just won student of the month for being responsible so probably not ADHD either. I haven't had him retested yet for WISC because they only do that every 4 years or so.  He still gets overwhelmed at the beginning of the writing process organizing his words. So we do prewriting together at home and shape the story then when he has direction he is able to form the sentence and write it.  I am actively pursuing livescribe for dictation because he wears out far faster than other students in handwriting. I am also working on typing but that takes a lot of time to shape for a student with dysgraphia issues. 

 

We still work on aural therapy because certain parts of CAPD can be improved ( listening in background noise and phoneme discrimination etc) My son is a good reader and  articulate in normal conversation it is just in multiple speaker situation and the literature writing process that is where we can slam into a wall. After we finish aural therapy this year I plan to spend all summer working on the prewriting & "writing" process in the funnest way I can. 

Edited December 23, 2017 by exercise_guru