Math suggestions for 8yo mathy boy

[CanaryMelody]

Background:

I've used MUS since my oldest (now graduated) was in elementary.  It worked for her really well as she needed lots of white space (ADHD) and a simple no-frills approach.  It was easy for me to teach which was helpful when I had 3 under 5 at one point.
 

For DD2 and both DSs, we briefly tried Singapore which resulted in tears every day and promptly switched everyone to MUS with great relief to all. Singapore was confusing for all... even with the HIG, I was struggling to figure it out.   

 

MUS has been "ok" for DD2 and DS1 - sufficient.  They are succeeding well enough, though, I have this troubling, niggling feeling that they won't be as well-prepared for upper math as I hope they will be.  (Just entering those waters for DD2 so the jury is still out.)  

 

We have continued with MUS simply because I own all levels through pre-alg, there are no tears, and I am very familiar with the teaching.

 

 

So here I am with DS2 who is 1/2 way through Gamma (multiplication).  DS is very math-oriented and understands the lessons quickly.  It's too easy for him.  He is eager to do it but he is a bit bored with it as well.  He is my "I like to figure things out myself," loves puzzles kind of kid.  He is bright (he read the KJV Bible by age 4).  I feel like MUS is not enough.  Yes.  It gets the basic concepts across but it's not challenging him.  

 

But I'm not sure if I should be fixing what's not broken. :confused1:  So I'm here for objective opinions.  :D 

 

I'm debating:

 

(1) Keeping MUS as a spine (through pre-alg? or switch before?)

and either supplementing with BA or/and other material.  I just bought BA 2A but it looks terribly easy for him. 

 

or

 

(2) Switching now from MUS to something else - BA only or perhaps try Singapore again or even MEP - supplementing as needed.

 

If I make a switch and since the MUS S&S is so different from other math programs, how do I figure out where to start him?

 

My goal is for him to be able to challenged and appeal to his desire to figure stuff out.  Eventually Forester's or AOPS is our academic goal.

 

I currently own MUS through pre-alg, MM (both series), and BA 2A level.   I also own LOF but I'm not happy with it either and will be selling it.

 

Willing to entertain Khan Academy, CWP, MEP, etc. if they fit our needs.

 

TIA!

 

 

[desertflower]

I would do #1.  start with BA 3A.  Somewhere in level 3 talks about multiplication. 

 

If your child is liking BA more, then switch.  :) 

 

My son is a mathy person too.  He loves BA. 

 

Hope this helps.

[HomeAgain]

MUS wasn't a match for my second kid, either.  He hated it, and we only did part of Alpha.  I think MEP would be a good switch.  You could start in level 3, but to prepare you may want to back up and do some of the puzzles from level 2.  We ended up doing MEP and slowly moving to what we're doing now:  LOF provides the bulk of new instruction and fun, and Right Start is our review.  So a math lesson here might look like half an hour of playing with functions and long division and then another half hour doing a lesson on multiplying by 3 in Right Start.

[Zoo Keeper]

MEP  is really good for this kind of kid.   Starting somewhere in Year 2 or 3 would probably work;  Many of the puzzle type problems are in the Teacher's Notes, so don't just look at the student pages and think that's it. 

 

 

 Singapore Challenging Word Problems, or the Intensive Practice  make a great supplement to any math program. You don't have to go whole hog on Singapore if you don't want to.  Just sprinkle a little on top of whatever math you've got.

 

My math lover enjoyed adding MEP and Singapore to his boring old R&S math.   The whole combo worked well for 4th - 6th grade; 7th and 8th grade was Dolciani Pre-A (with Khan Academy and other rabbit trails); he is in high school now and using a combo of Dolciani supplemented with Foerster for Algebra--and doing very well. 

[fralala]

I would do #1.  start with BA 3A.  Somewhere in level 3 talks about multiplication. 

 

If your child is liking BA more, then switch.  :)

 

My son is a mathy person too.  He loves BA. 

 

Hope this helps.

 

This. My mathy 8 year old loves BA3.

 

One thing I have to resist, and I don't know if this is true with you, is thinking that a kid who can do math with some facility is never doing enough because they "get" concepts rather quickly and intuitively and have a knack for problem solving.

 

FWIW, the first chapter of BA 3A was in some places very challenging for my DD when we first started, so we sort of used that chapter in a spiral-sort of way as she completed the rest of the book, which she found less daunting.

[CanaryMelody]

Thank you everyone!  Looks like I'll look at MEP a bit more closely and figure out where to start.

 

 

This. My mathy 8 year old loves BA3.

 

One thing I have to resist, and I don't know if this is true with you, is thinking that a kid who can do math with some facility is never doing enough because they "get" concepts rather quickly and intuitively and have a knack for problem solving.

 

FWIW, the first chapter of BA 3A was in some places very challenging for my DD when we first started, so we sort of used that chapter in a spiral-sort of way as she completed the rest of the book, which she found less daunting.

 

Yes!  This is so hard.  He can do all of the math mentally as well (which MUS doesn't even really stress that) and it's hard not to think it is not enough. I usually have him teach me the lesson back that way I can "see" the process he uses to come to his answers.  That helps to rein me in a bit.   :)

[Amy M]

I agree with the others. I think supplementation is a good idea to challenge him, but please don't leave MUS! Demme presents the lessons in a clear way, and the ideas progress logically, and I think it lays a great conceptual foundation. I tried supplementing with the following:

BA, but it wasn't my favorite for my kid--might be perfect for yours, though.

MEP--I've looked at it, but couldn't figure out how to wade my way through all the material and didn't want to go through the learning curve to figure out what to use and what to cut and what to print, etc. Free is very good though. :)

MM--I only have the Blue series on .pdf, but honestly I don't think I do well with stuff I have to wade through, pick and choose, and print out. For some reason I don't get around to it. But I did take the time once for clocks, which a child was struggling with from MUS.

SM--I go through the books after an MUS level as a review. My kids have flown through it. It's nice to present another way of looking at things, but usually, I feel that MUS's instruction was more thorough, and liked their set-up better. The only things my kids struggled with so far in SM (after going through MUS) was division, so we often skipped that and wait for MUS. I will use the Challenging Word Problems as a supplement, but probably ignore going through the whole level as a supplement now. It's overkill. Even the mental math isn't needed that much, since MUS does such a good job with the blocks and teaching the concepts.

LOF--This is what I'm liking now as a supplement. After Epsilon, my son read fractions on his own, and after Zeta, Decimals/Percents. I think we'll keep going with that plan.

 

For my more mathy kids, I plan to use MUS in the high school years as an intro to the topic, and then go through Foerster's or Jacob's Geometry. I really love MUS as a spine though, obviously! lol.

[CanaryMelody]

MEP--I've looked at it, but couldn't figure out how to wade my way through all the material and didn't want to go through the learning curve to figure out what to use and what to cut and what to print, etc. Free is very good though. :)

 

This was a concern for me as well.  I'm looking at the MEP website now and it seems overwhelming. Of course, I am willing to wade through it and learn if it is the best fit.  I think that is why I've leaned heavily on MUS - it's easy on me.  :)

 

 

MM--I only have the Blue series on .pdf, but honestly I don't think I do well with stuff I have to wade through, pick and choose, and print out. For some reason I don't get around to it. But I did take the time once for clocks, which a child was struggling with from MUS.

 

With my oldest, I used MM's clock PDF to supplement MUS as well. 

 

 

SM--I go through the books after an MUS level as a review. My kids have flown through it. It's nice to present another way of looking at things, but usually, I feel that MUS's instruction was more thorough, and liked their set-up better. The only things my kids struggled with so far in SM (after going through MUS) was division, so we often skipped that and wait for MUS. I will use the Challenging Word Problems as a supplement, but probably ignore going through the whole level as a supplement now. It's overkill. Even the mental math isn't needed that much, since MUS does such a good job with the blocks and teaching the concepts.

 

So, you went through the MUS level and then followed up by going through a SM level and didn't find anything really new for them to learn from it?   If I did SM, I'd probably switch completely over (unless I just supplement something like CWP).  I'm not sure my son would be on board with doing 2 complete programs. lol  

 

Thank you for your thoughts!   That helps!

[sweetpea3829]

Personally, for a mathy kid, I would advise ditching MUS. It's just not enough. It's boring, lacks depth and exploration and gives a basic math education.

 

Perfect for some kids. Not for others.

 

And keeping it while supplementing would be difficult because of its tight scope and sequence.

 

If Singapore is a challenge for you to teach, even with the HIG, how about Singapore's counterpart Math in Focus?

 

From what I understand, MIF is easier to teach.

 

Singapore is an excellent curriculum for mathy kids. I combined it with Beast for my mathy kid and have been pleased with the results.

 

If I had put him through MUS (which I have used with DD), he would have been so so bored and he would not have the problem solving fundamentals he has.

[Xahm]

Don't be too daunted by MEP. Basically, you have a student workbook that is broken into parts so you can print just one part at a time, and a teacher's lesson book that tells how to teach, broken into the same parts as the workbook. I refer to it on a screen rather than printing. Read though a few lessons in the teacher's book while looking at the corresponding workbook page. They are very detailed, but intended for a classroom setting, so you need to adapt, but it's mostly the "my kid gets this, I can move on instead of drilling for 4 more minutes" kinds of adaptation. After you see the kinds of things you'll be doing, look over at the printables. Most of them are unnecessary outside the classroom setting. We use the number line a fair amount, but that's it.

[PeterPan]

Wasn't on your list, but BJU math is going to be one of the stronger options out there. Not in the free category though.

 

He's at a good age to do Primary Challenge Math and begin living math books.

[CanaryMelody]

Personally, for a mathy kid, I would advise ditching MUS. It's just not enough. It's boring, lacks depth and exploration and gives a basic math education.

 

Perfect for some kids. Not for others.

 

And keeping it while supplementing would be difficult because of its tight scope and sequence.

 

If Singapore is a challenge for you to teach, even with the HIG, how about Singapore's counterpart Math in Focus?

 

From what I understand, MIF is easier to teach.

 

Singapore is an excellent curriculum for mathy kids. I combined it with Beast for my mathy kid and have been pleased with the results.

 

If I had put him through MUS (which I have used with DD), he would have been so so bored and he would not have the problem solving fundamentals he has.

 

I haven't heard of MiF.  I'll take a look at it.  And you're right.  DS is bored with MUS but he does it cheerfully for me if I ask him to.  No complaining.  But that's just how he is... he doesn't complain about anything I give him. :wub:

 

Don't be too daunted by MEP. Basically, you have a student workbook that is broken into parts so you can print just one part at a time, and a teacher's lesson book that tells how to teach, broken into the same parts as the workbook. I refer to it on a screen rather than printing. Read though a few lessons in the teacher's book while looking at the corresponding workbook page. They are very detailed, but intended for a classroom setting, so you need to adapt, but it's mostly the "my kid gets this, I can move on instead of drilling for 4 more minutes" kinds of adaptation. After you see the kinds of things you'll be doing, look over at the printables. Most of them are unnecessary outside the classroom setting. We use the number line a fair amount, but that's it.

 

I was looking at MEP again last night and searching through threads on here to see others use MEP. I think I'm getting a handle on how it works (and what I really need to use).   I keep hearing that the learning curve to use it is steep.   Why is that?

 

Wasn't on your list, but BJU math is going to be one of the stronger options out there. Not in the free category though.

 

He's at a good age to do Primary Challenge Math and begin living math books.

 

Thanks, OhElizabeth.  I hadn't looked at a BJU math since my oldest was kinder.  We ditched it fairly quickly due to her aversion to clowns plus she needed more simplicity and white space in her math workbooks.

[Xahm]

 

 

 

I was looking at MEP again last night and searching through threads on here to see others use MEP. I think I'm getting a handle on how it works (and what I really need to use).   I keep hearing that the learning curve to use it is steep.   Why is that?

 

 

 

 

I don't know that I can answer that because we started with it at the beginning, but I suspect it is largely because ideas are presented in a very different order than typical, so you may have to do some real looking to find proper placement. For example, the beginning of year one deals first with only the numbers 0, 1, and 2 but does all the addition and subtraction possible with those numbers, including algebraic seeming ones like ___+1=1  Then it starts with zero through three, then zero through 4, and so on. Mixed throughout are bits on geometry, measurement, etc, and there are lots of puzzles and word problems.  Year two has multiplication very early on, though again, it starts with small numbers. Looking over the whole thing, it's easy to see that there's clear development and solid reasoning behind the scope and sequence, but I imagine that if you were to switch to it from a different curriculum, you should probably start back a year or half a year, then move quickly through that as a review/catching any bits that are covered in a different order.

[CanaryMelody]

I don't know that I can answer that because we started with it at the beginning, but I suspect it is largely because ideas are presented in a very different order than typical, so you may have to do some real looking to find proper placement. For example, the beginning of year one deals first with only the numbers 0, 1, and 2 but does all the addition and subtraction possible with those numbers, including algebraic seeming ones like ___+1=1  Then it starts with zero through three, then zero through 4, and so on. Mixed throughout are bits on geometry, measurement, etc, and there are lots of puzzles and word problems.  Year two has multiplication very early on, though again, it starts with small numbers. Looking over the whole thing, it's easy to see that there's clear development and solid reasoning behind the scope and sequence, but I imagine that if you were to switch to it from a different curriculum, you should probably start back a year or half a year, then move quickly through that as a review/catching any bits that are covered in a different order.

 

DS has done inequalities and algebraic type problems such as  x + 6 = 15 and  2x=10 in MUS.  So those won't be unfamiliar.  Geometry, measurements, and word problems are our weak spots.  He's currently working on single digit multiplication; he's on lesson 8, so it looks like halfway through Year 2 might be a good landing spot. :)

 

[SoCal_Bear]

If you are unfamiliar with Singapore math, then an alternative to the CWP is Fan Math's Process Skills in Problem Solving which has explicit instruction for SM style word problems. I really like the IP books as well.

I personally would not use MUS with a mathy kid, but that's me. If you switch, I don't like using BA stand alone. This has been discussed extensively on these boards. I choose to use it a level behind SM. We do a lot of math around here. So Zaccaro, Hard Math, Cleo Borac's books, Borenson's Hands on Equations, Michael Serra's books. MOEMS, etc.