Large Carseat Recall PSA and question

[Guinevere]

I just got a notification from Amazon that a carseat we bought a few years ago has been recalled.  It is the Sunshine Kids/Diono Radian, manufactured between Nov 2013 and Sep 2017.  It says over 500,000 seats are included, so I thought I would post it here just in case someone has one and doesn't see the recall.  It says they are sending an updated kit to fix it.  

 

https://www.nhtsa.gov/recalls?nhtsaId=17C003000

 

I'm not feeling very good about all the errands I was supposed to run today, though.

 

ETA After reading it all again, I have a question.  Our vehicle doesn't have the latch system, so we can't use the tethers.  I also thought you were only supposed to tether the top of the seat when it was rear facing? Anyway, our seat is installed with a lap and shoulder belt combination, forward facing.  Does this recall still effect us?

Edited October 13, 2017 by Guinevere

[HomeAgain]

I just got a notification from Amazon that a carseat we bought a few years ago has been recalled.  It is the Sunshine Kids/Diono Radian, manufactured between Nov 2013 and Sep 2017.  It says over 500,000 seats are included, so I thought I would post it here just in case someone has one and doesn't see the recall.  It says they are sending an updated kit to fix it.  

 

https://www.nhtsa.gov/recalls?nhtsaId=17C003000

 

I'm not feeling very good about all the errands I was supposed to run today, though.

 

ETA After reading it all again, I have a question.  Our vehicle doesn't have the latch system, so we can't use the tethers.  I also thought you were only supposed to tether the top of the seat when it was rear facing? Anyway, our seat is installed with a lap and shoulder belt combination, forward facing.  Does this recall still effect us?

 

You should use a top tether whenever possible, especially forward facing.  Even cars that don't have the lower anchors will sometimes have a top tether location and/or be able to be modified (old Subarus, for example, had a tether anchor that fit into a third row seat belt buckle to retrofit the car).  Double check your manual and write the car manufacturer to see if you do have options for tethering.

 

"Lap belt" could mean lap and shoulder seat belt, but I would encourage you to call Diono directly and have them clarify.  They're the only ones who could give you a direct answer.

 

[Kiara.I]

Ah, I see my confusion.

 

The recall suggests that when not using the top tether, children could be less protected.  In my country, using a top tether when forward facing is *mandatory* and therefore the recall doesn't really apply to us.

 

So...yes, you need to use your top tether!  ;)

(In my country it's optional to tether rear-facing, but mandatory forward-facing.)

 

Latch system is not connected to tethering at all.  Latch is instead of seatbelt.  Tethers are used with either latch or with seatbelt.

[Guinevere]

Oh, now I understand. Yes, I was confusing the latch system versus tethering. While we figure this out, I'll move dd7 into a high back booster, and my youngest into her 5-point.

 

Thanks for the help.

[HomeAgain]

 

 

Latch system is not connected to tethering at all.  Latch is instead of seatbelt.  Tethers are used with either latch or with seatbelt.

 

Not quite.  LATCH stands for Lower Anchors and Tethers for CHildren, so tethers are used with the lower anchors and/or seatbelt (Clek allows a dual form of securing the seat, I don't think anyone else does off the top of my head).  LATCH doesn't simply mean lower anchors.  And many seats require the top tether in the forward position now. 

 

Guinevere, a further story on the matter shows that it was due to children over 65lbs being at risk when harnessed without the top tether being installed.  https://www.cbsnews.com/news/diono-issues-national-recall-for-car-seats/ You should definitely call the company, though, or at the very least email them.  I don't have any experience with their customer service but most car seat companies I have dealt with welcome questions and the chance to help parents.

 

 

[heartlikealion]

I don't even know how a top tether would work rear facing. I am trying to picture that? Where does it go?? When ds had a forward facing Nautilus we had a top tether and I pulled it to the back of the car where there was an anchor. We never used the LATCH system.

[HomeAgain]

I don't even know how a top tether would work rear facing. I am trying to picture that? Where does it go?? When ds had a forward facing Nautilus we had a top tether and I pulled it to the back of the car where there was an anchor. We never used the LATCH system.

 

You can Australian tether it, where it comes up and hooks in where you would do a forward facing tether.  My car allowed for the tether to be connected to the seat track in front and our seat had an extra belt that looped around it with a tether ring at the end.

 

But only a few seats allow rear facing tether, and some car manuals don't address it at all so you have to look at both manuals carefully and be willing to call as needed.

 

ETA: pictures of Aussie and Swedish tethering: https://carseatblog.com/12749/how-to-use-a-rear-facing-tether/

Edited October 13, 2017 by HomeAgain

[heartlikealion]

You can Australian tether it, where it comes up and hooks in where you would do a forward facing tether.  My car allowed for the tether to be connected to the seat track in front and our seat had an extra belt that looped around it with a tether ring at the end.

 

But only a few seats allow rear facing tether, and some car manuals don't address it at all so you have to look at both manuals carefully and be willing to call as needed.

 

ETA: pictures of Aussie and Swedish tethering: https://carseatblog.com/12749/how-to-use-a-rear-facing-tether/

 

Oh ok. Maybe that is not available in the US.

 

[ashfern]

Thanks. I have a Radian but not sure which model #. Will have to check it out.

[wendyroo]

Oh ok. Maybe that is not available in the US.

 

 

 

It all depends on the model of the seat.  We have always used Britax and Diono seats, and they include a strap to create a rear-facing tether point.  You wrap the strap around one of the anchor points where the front vehicle seat is bolted to the floor and then you tether the rear-facing car seat to the strap.

 

OTOH, many car seat manufacturers in the US do not allow for rear-facing tethering.  And some, like Britax, are moving from rear-facing tethering to anti-rebound bars.

 

Wendy

Edited October 13, 2017 by wendyroo

[sarasue7272]

I read in the past year or so there was something about using latch with bigger children- a possible problem when the child + car seat= 65+lbs. I use the seatbelt so I don't remember the specifics!

[wendyroo]

I read in the past year or so there was something about using latch with bigger children- a possible problem when the child + car seat= 65+lbs. I use the seatbelt so I don't remember the specifics!

 

This recall is about something entirely different.

 

The rule about installing car seats with the seatbelts (as opposed to the lower LATCH anchors) for larger children has been around for a long time.  Not everyone knows about it, so they continue to try to educate the public, but those rules are in all car seat and vehicle manuals.

 

The recall is about tethering forward facing car seats (with a strap that runs over the back of the vehicle seat).  In the US this is still optional, and most car seats do not require it.  The recalled Diono seats, however, are having safety issues when they are not tethered.  In most cases, the simplest fix is to make sure the seats are always tethered...which is required by law in many countries.  This doesn't help, though, with older vehicles that are lacking tether anchors.  Diono says it is going to mail out new chest clips that are going to supposedly fix the issue.

 

Wendy

[mamaraby]

I read in the past year or so there was something about using latch with bigger children- a possible problem when the child + car seat= 65+lbs. I use the seatbelt so I don't remember the specifics!

The issue is that there is a weight limit to the anchors and it varies depending on car maker. Our Ford had a higher weight limit than our VW.

[HomeAgain]

Oh ok. Maybe that is not available in the US.

 

 

I'm in the U.S.  :)  It's just the style of tethering.  Only a few seats offer rear-faced tethering, and the current trend is moving toward the anti-rebound bars, like Wendyroo said, and stability legs (like the Nuna Pipa has).

 

I was a CPST for 4 years, and honestly I think car seats are some of the worst things on the market.  Not because of safety - but because each design is different and car manufacturers don't often work with car seat designers.  Seats work differently in different cars.  Some have one feature, others have another.  Minivans made for large families offer a single tether point on the bench seat, and do crossover seatbelts so if you use LATCH you can only have two children back there.  It's bloody frustrating for parents to have to read two different manuals to do something that they need to be able to do while sleep deprived and multitasking.

 

/end rant.  *sigh*  It would be so much easier on everyone to standardize features, or even better, find a way to integrate them into a more user friendly product that's either a part of the car (like the concept for the Volvo XC90), or is click and go.

[KungFuPanda]

I'm in the U.S. :) It's just the style of tethering. Only a few seats offer rear-faced tethering, and the current trend is moving toward the anti-rebound bars, like Wendyroo said, and stability legs (like the Nuna Pipa has).

 

I was a CPST for 4 years, and honestly I think car seats are some of the worst things on the market. Not because of safety - but because each design is different and car manufacturers don't often work with car seat designers. Seats work differently in different cars. Some have one feature, others have another. Minivans made for large families offer a single tether point on the bench seat, and do crossover seatbelts so if you use LATCH you can only have two children back there. It's bloody frustrating for parents to have to read two different manuals to do something that they need to be able to do while sleep deprived and multitasking.

 

/end rant. *sigh* It would be so much easier on everyone to standardize features, or even better, find a way to integrate them into a more user friendly product that's either a part of the car (like the concept for the Volvo XC90), or is click and go.

When my dd20 was a toddler, we had a car with an integrated seat. When it wasn't needed, the seat flipped up to it's normal position and the child seat disappeared. It was a great idea and we never needed to worry about correct installation. I thought by now something like this would be built into more rear seats, but the idea never really took off. It was so user friendly and you could raise the shoulder straps as your kid grew.

[HomeAgain]

When my dd20 was a toddler, we had a car with an integrated seat. When it wasn't needed, the seat flipped up to it's normal position and the child seat disappeared. It was a great idea and we never needed to worry about correct installation. I thought by now something like this would be built into more rear seats, but the idea never really took off. It was so user friendly and you could raise the shoulder straps as your kid grew.

 

I remember those!  It would be great if they took that and made a retractable 5pt harness.

 

The XC90 has a different set up: http://autoweek.com/article/car-news/volvo-xc90-child-seat-and-lounge-console-could-reach-production

Another cool idea.

 

Oh, and this one from the UK bolts into the seat entirely: https://multimac.co.uk/home How freaking sweet would something like that be - simply sliding the belts up/adding a univeral seat for infants?

 

Pipe dreams. :)  I told my husband if I ever design a minivan it would have something like this in the back seat along with pull out foot rests.