Math + Spelling recs. for Auditory learner with retention struggles

[thelilyandsparrow]

Hi All :)

I desperately need recommendations for my 10 year old.  She's a very intelligent auditory learner, but she struggles with retaining facts and abstract concepts so math and spelling are difficult.  She LOVES history, and can remember every detail from listening to Story of the World.  I wish I could find Math & Spelling in similar formats.  She does really well with First Language Lessons too if that's helpful.

So far, she's done the best with a spiral approach to math as she doesn't have the retention needed for mastery approach.  She likes the narrative style of beast academy, but a lot of it was too conceptual for her.  She does okay with Horizons math, but I'm wondering if something that incorporated more auditory aspects might be good.  

Spelling is a trainwreck.  We've tried Spelling U See and Sequential spelling.  I've read that Phonetic Zoo might be good though?

Any input is very much appreciated!!!

[ElizabethB]

If she does well with video, I would try my online spelling movies:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Spelling/spellinglessonsl.html

 

The movies are pretty boring for that age, I would watch 1/2 of a lesson per day.  I would follow it with Phonetic Zoo, Phonetic Zoo is the only audio spelling I know of.  

 

Or, Spelling Plus but teach them orally, it has the advantage that it focuses on the most common 1,000 words.  Maybe try putting them in Anki or another spaced learning system?

 

http://www.susancanthony.com/bk/sp.html

 

Have you tried a DVD math program or Kahn Academy?

 

ETA: There are now audio files for Spelling Plus!!!  That is much cheaper than Phonetic Zoo, and I like the arrangement of the words and rules.  I would try that first.

 

http://www.susancanthony.com/bk/spaud.html

 

 

Edited August 30, 2017 by ElizabethB

[nixpix5]

Have you looked at Life of Fred for math? If it pretty fun and kids like it. Our library carries it so maybe you can check yours to take a look at it.

 

Spelling is so tough. What about AAS which is auditory lessons with manipulative letters?

Edited August 30, 2017 by nixpix5

[4Wesley]

For math, Teaching Textbooks has an auditory component. You could also add in a CD such as Rock n Learn Country for multiplication drill.

[thelilyandsparrow]

Thank you!  Those are very helpful recommendations.  I really want her to feel confident and empowered to try, instead of defeated and unsure.  I know she can do it if I can just find the right fit :)

If she does well with video, I would try my online spelling movies:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Spelling/spellinglessonsl.html

 

The movies are pretty boring for that age, I would watch 1/2 of a lesson per day.  I would follow it with Phonetic Zoo, Phonetic Zoo is the only audio spelling I know of.  

 

Or, Spelling Plus but teach them orally, it has the advantage that it focuses on the most common 1,000 words.  Maybe try putting them in Anki or another spaced learning system?

 

http://www.susancanthony.com/bk/sp.html

 

Have you tried a DVD math program or Kahn Academy?

 

ETA: There are now audio files for Spelling Plus!!!  That is much cheaper than Phonetic Zoo, and I like the arrangement of the words and rules.  I would try that first.

 

http://www.susancanthony.com/bk/spaud.html

 

[ElizabethB]

Thank you!  Those are very helpful recommendations.  I really want her to feel confident and empowered to try, instead of defeated and unsure.  I know she can do it if I can just find the right fit :)

 

I hope you find the right fit.  If video works well, or certain types of video courses or YouTube videos, I would start a new thread asking for video recommendations, you should get a lot more ideas that way.

 

I have heard you can add sound files to Anki, the spaced repetition program, that might work, too.

Edited September 6, 2017 by ElizabethB

[gypsymama]

My daughter had similar struggles. What has worked best for us for math is using Ray's arithmetic books. We have to do at least some math nearly daily though - no long breaks or summer. I read the problems out to her orally and she responds. I keep the review tabs pinned for random review. Usually we go over random drill of some basic facts orally as a warm up at the start of our math lesson then we complete the rest of the lesson and anything written. I find that as long as I give her a "warm up" orally at the start of the lesson she is ready to go and can do higher math. I can NOT let that slide though. Even if the child can add multiple digit columns quickly without scratch paper if we take a couple of weeks off of math she won't be able to tell me what 7+4 is without looking at me like an alien. 

 

For spelling I'm using Wheeler's spellers. My son is in the first book and I combine lessons skipping any memorization lessons. So lesson 1 is a group of similar words, lesson 2 is copywork sentences using some of those words from lesson 1. So our week will be... copy lesson 1, dictate orally, copy lesson 2, dictate lesson 1 written - or something similar. My daughter did this for that book and is now in the second book. The second book has a list of 8-10 sentences per lesson with a sound focused on (ea, ee, etc). The week is something like ... copy lesson 1, study it, orally dictate any focus words (ea, ee, etc), orally dictate any "challenge" words ( that I think she may have trouble with), written dictation. This seems to be working well for her since she's using the words in writing instead of just a random list of words. 

[thelilyandsparrow]

I haven't looked at Life of Fred.  I've had a lot of friends start out with it but not continue it for one reason or another.  That's good to know that it may be available at the library.  That could be really helpful.

All About Spelling has been on my list of potential ones.  I'm trying to figure if AAS or Phonetic Zoo would be better.   I'm thinking of letting my daughter have my old cell phone, and then she can make videos of herself spelling her words and watch it.  I never let her use my phone, and when she does get it, she's always making videos of herself, ha ha!  

Thanks for the input!!

Have you looked at Life of Fred for math? If it pretty fun and kids like it. Our library carries it so maybe you can check yours to take a look at it.

Spelling is so tough. What about AAS which is auditory lessons with manipulative letters?

 

[thelilyandsparrow]

@ElizabethB  Thanks!  Those look like very helpful resources.  I am leaning toward Phonetic Zoo, but I'll check out spelling plus.  I have never heard of Anki.  I'll have to look into that.  Kahn is a really good idea.  I don't know why I didn't think of that!

If she does well with video, I would try my online spelling movies:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Spelling/spellinglessonsl.html

 

The movies are pretty boring for that age, I would watch 1/2 of a lesson per day.  I would follow it with Phonetic Zoo, Phonetic Zoo is the only audio spelling I know of.  

 

Or, Spelling Plus but teach them orally, it has the advantage that it focuses on the most common 1,000 words.  Maybe try putting them in Anki or another spaced learning system?

 

http://www.susancanthony.com/bk/sp.html

 

Have you tried a DVD math program or Kahn Academy?

 

ETA: There are now audio files for Spelling Plus!!!  That is much cheaper than Phonetic Zoo, and I like the arrangement of the words and rules.  I would try that first.

 

http://www.susancanthony.com/bk/spaud.html

 

4Wesley, I will check out Teaching Textbooks, thank you!  I hadn't heard of Rock n Learn, only Times Tales.  I'll have to pick that up.  

For math, Teaching Textbooks has an auditory component. You could also add in a CD such as Rock n Learn Country for multiplication drill.

 

@Gypsymama.  Interesting!  I've not heard of Ray's arithmetic books. We took a 5 week break this summer and it was a big mistake.  I wish I knew what cause the retention struggle.  I"ve also never heard of Wheeler's.  It sounds like a good approach.  Thanks for taking the time to share!

My daughter had similar struggles. What has worked best for us for math is using Ray's arithmetic books. We have to do at least some math nearly daily though - no long breaks or summer. I read the problems out to her orally and she responds. I keep the review tabs pinned for random review. Usually we go over random drill of some basic facts orally as a warm up at the start of our math lesson then we complete the rest of the lesson and anything written. I find that as long as I give her a "warm up" orally at the start of the lesson she is ready to go and can do higher math. I can NOT let that slide though. Even if the child can add multiple digit columns quickly without scratch paper if we take a couple of weeks off of math she won't be able to tell me what 7+4 is without looking at me like an alien. 

 

For spelling I'm using Wheeler's spellers. My son is in the first book and I combine lessons skipping any memorization lessons. So lesson 1 is a group of similar words, lesson 2 is copywork sentences using some of those words from lesson 1. So our week will be... copy lesson 1, dictate orally, copy lesson 2, dictate lesson 1 written - or something similar. My daughter did this for that book and is now in the second book. The second book has a list of 8-10 sentences per lesson with a sound focused on (ea, ee, etc). The week is something like ... copy lesson 1, study it, orally dictate any focus words (ea, ee, etc), orally dictate any "challenge" words ( that I think she may have trouble with), written dictation. This seems to be working well for her since she's using the words in writing instead of just a random list of words. 

 

 

[blondeviolin]

My oldest is similar. Saxon is best for her math-wise. The constant spiral and sneaky, incremental learning has made her a very competent math student.

 

For spelling, we ended up upping her writing amount. That, and autocorrect on an old iPhone helped her quite a bit. She's doing Spelling Power this year and the learning exercises often help her cement the words.

[Soror]

That is similar to my son with some working memory issues/stealth dyslexia stuff too. He did Right Start for most of his elementary math, I tried LoF for the narrative aspect but the math itself was lacking with not enough review. RS worked well because there was so much to do together orally, he really needs me to work directly with him. RS was good because there was so much oral work, it was strong conceptually (without being too hard), and there wasn't a billion problems. My dd1 thrives with Saxon but it would have been a horrible fit for him, it was too incremental and too many problems. After RS we did some Beast Academy, side by side together, he enjoyed it but needed extra practice on the side and if I had it to do over again I would have started later with it. 

 

For spelling, we finally went with Apples and Pears as it is designed for dyslexics, he made huge gains in spelling with that series. Now he has moved onto Megawords, which seems to be working well too (although we've only been at it a couple of months I hesitate to state anything for certain). We did do some of Elizabeth's spelling lesson, some Webster, Spelling Plus, LoE Essentials(all the way through), a bit of AAS, and How to Teach Spelling but nothing really clicked like Apples and Pears did, it is not specifically auditory but yet again there was a lot of working together with it, it was not the type of program you hand off to a kid because that certainly doesn't work for him at all. 

 

I've found with him it doesn't necessarily have to be a narrative program but he requires us working together, discussing together, the back and forth bouncing ideas around. 

[sbgrace]

CLE math, while not auditory, has a really tight spiral which is great for retention. I like it supplemented with Singapore FAN Math Process Skills workbooks for word problems. They are an easy add--small enough to work as an addition, but very thorough/complete instruction. 

 

The best spelling program I used for my weak speller, who is also an auditory learner with weak visual memory--so rules didn't help, was Apples and Pears. It has a lot of repetition. It stuck. 

 

I really like those two programs for retention. 

Edited September 7, 2017 by sbgrace

[vaquitita]

You've pretty much described my 10yo. :D

 

For math we've tried a number of different things, this year she's using CLE (started back in June) and that seems to be going really well.

 

For spelling, we are using Spelling You See. She did level B the last half of last year, and as much as she complained about it (the dictation mostly), I could see that it was helping her spelling and her confidence. So she's doing level C this year.

 

What didn't work about SYS for you?

 

I have AAS 1-3 sitting on my shelf, but I really don't feel like using it. Lol. I'm not convinced it'll be the best fit for her anyway because we used AAR and even after doing all 5 levels, including half of level 3 twice, she still doesn't know the phonogram sounds with flashcards. Or just refuses to. She gets majorly upset when spelling rules aren't true 100% of the time, so I don't think an approach that emphasizes rules will be good for her.

 

I've eyed Apples and Pears, but haven't wanted to fork out the money (our charter school pays for SYS and AAS). But then that's also what kept me from using CLE math for a long time, and now I wish I'd tried it sooner. Now after reading this thread, I'm off to look at it again. ;)

Edited September 7, 2017 by vaquitita

[Ellie]

Hi All :)

 

I desperately need recommendations for my 10 year old.  She's a very intelligent auditory learner, but she struggles with retaining facts and abstract concepts so math and spelling are difficult.  She LOVES history, and can remember every detail from listening to Story of the World.  I wish I could find Math & Spelling in similar formats.  She does really well with First Language Lessons too if that's helpful.

 

So far, she's done the best with a spiral approach to math as she doesn't have the retention needed for mastery approach.  She likes the narrative style of beast academy, but a lot of it was too conceptual for her.  She does okay with Horizons math, but I'm wondering if something that incorporated more auditory aspects might be good.  

 

Spelling is a trainwreck.  We've tried Spelling U See and Sequential spelling.  I've read that Phonetic Zoo might be good though?

 

Any input is very much appreciated!!!

 

Spalding for spelling.

 

Maybe Rod and Staff math would be good.

 

[thelilyandsparrow]

We did Spelling You See, but it didn't seem to help her remember how to spell any of the words.  Maybe we gave up on it too soon.  We only did level B.  

We are also doing a charter school (Summit) that pays for certain curriculums and sadly, Apples & Pears isn't on the list.  I've looked at AAS and Phonetic Zoo, but A&P seems to be the better fit.  

You've pretty much described my 10yo. :D

For math we've tried a number of different things, this year she's using CLE (started back in June) and that seems to be going really well.

For spelling, we are using Spelling You See. She did level B the last half of last year, and as much as she complained about it (the dictation mostly), I could see that it was helping her spelling and her confidence. So she's doing level C this year.

What didn't work about SYS for you?

I have AAS 1-3 sitting on my shelf, but I really don't feel like using it. Lol. I'm not convinced it'll be the best fit for her anyway because we used AAR and even after doing all 5 levels, including half of level 3 twice, she still doesn't know the phonogram sounds with flashcards. Or just refuses to. She gets majorly upset when spelling rules aren't true 100% of the time, so I don't think an approach that emphasizes rules will be good for her.

I've eyed Apples and Pears, but haven't wanted to fork out the money (our charter school pays for SYS and AAS). But then that's also what kept me from using CLE math for a long time, and now I wish I'd tried it sooner. Now after reading this thread, I'm off to look at it again. ;)

 

[vaquitita]

We did Spelling You See, but it didn't seem to help her remember how to spell any of the words. Maybe we gave up on it too soon. We only did level B.

 

We are also doing a charter school (Summit) that pays for certain curriculums and sadly, Apples & Pears isn't on the list. I've looked at AAS and Phonetic Zoo, but A&P seems to be the better fit.

I don't 'get' phonetic zoo. Lol. I've looked at it a couple times. It looks like memorizing a jingle with a rule and then spelling ten words from that word family?

 

I'm torn about SYS... I feel like the repetitive nature does/should help. I mean lots of repetition is what she needs to remember. And I felt like last year when I did as they suggest and had get write and rewrite a word different ways to see which looked right (with hints as needed) she did start figuring a couple things out. But otoh because it is the exact same passage, exact same markings, every day... I feel like she zones out and copies without thinking about it.

 

Eta: I probably need to sit and do SYS with her for it to work. Problem is, she's rather independent and just does it without me. Except the dictation. I guess I could lock it up so she can't get it and do it on her own... Something like A&P which HAS to be done with me might help.

Edited September 7, 2017 by vaquitita