Physics and AoPs

[visitor]

Please help me out this is a question for a friend She is homeschooling her daughter which is 14 years old . She is very strong at mathematics and wants to study physics. I told her that AoPs is an option for her. She and her daughter looked at intro Algebra (AoPs) and she alraidy knows most of it . But the problems were way more challenging then her Belguim / French curriculum . Will she still benefit working with intro Algebra ? Because I think the book will not be discovery based for her. She is also looking for a Physics curriculum with challenging problems ... She already followed Pre Calculus with her Belguim / French math Curriculum . But it was to easy for her. She doesn't want to do Olympiad competitions but will enjoy more challeging problems .

Edited August 23, 2017 by visitor

[Arcadia]

Is she doing Precalulus with the AoPS textbook or with another curriculum?

 

As for physics, tell your friend's daughter to take a look at the Halliday and Resnick textbook in this link and see what she thinks. https://archive.org/details/FundamentalsOfPhysicsExtended10thEditionHallidayResnick

 

Regentrude would be able to give a better recommendation since her daughter used AoPS and majors in physics.

 

ETA:

The physics textbooks I have are:

Giancoli, Douglas C. Physics for Scientists and Engineers. Upper Saddle River, NJ: Prentice Hall. 4th edition

 

Halliday, David, Robert Resnick, and Jearl Walker. Fundamentals of Physics. New York: John Wiley & Sons.

 

Young, Hugh D., and Roger A. Freedman. University Physics. Reading, MA: Addison Wesley Longman.

 

What I had read through at a used bookstore are:

Knight, Randall D. Physics for Scientists and Engineers: A Strategic Approach with Modern Physics. Boston, MA: Addison-Wesley.

 

Serway, Raymond A., and John W. Jewett, Jr. Physics for Scientists and Engineers with PhysicsNow and InfoTrac. New York: Brooks/Cole.

 

Tipler, Paul A. Physics for Scientists and Engineers. New York: W. H. Freeman.

 

Wolfson, Richard, and Jay M. Pasachoff. Physics for Scientists and Engineers. Reading, MA: Addison Wesley Longman.

 

My background is engineering and not physics though. My DS12 reads topics in theoretical physics that interest him at his own leisure, my responsibility is just to get him to Barnes & Noble and the used bookstore every weekend.

Edited August 23, 2017 by Arcadia

[8filltheheart]

Please help me out this is a question for a friend She is homeschooling her daughter which is 14 years old . She is very strong at mathematics and wants to study physics. I told her that AoPs is an option for her. She and her daughter looked at intro Algebra (AoPs) and she alraidy knows most of it . But the problems were way more challenging then her Belguim / French curriculum . Will she still benefit working with intro Algebra ? Because I think the book will not be discovery based for her. She is also looking for a Physics curriculum with challenging problems ... She already followed Pre Calculus with her Belguim / French math Curriculum . But it was to easy for her. She doesn't want to do Olympiad competitions but will enjoy more challeging problems .

 

My dd did not find AoPS alg 1 beneficial after already taking Foersters alg 1.  Actually, it turned her off of AoPS and she never wanted to take another one.

 

My ds jumped right into the intermediate alg book after completing just the first part of Foersters alg 2 and he never looked back.  He is a sr physics/math double major with a 4.0 gpa. He attributes his strength in math (and therefore physics) to his AoPS courses.  

 

His first physics course was Kinetic Books Physics, but he took it before pre-cal.  His next physics course was cal as a pre-req.

[regentrude]

What level Physics? What does she consider challenging?

In high school, I used an algebra/trig based College Physics text (I like Knight, Jones and Field; Giancoli is another popular choice) with my kids, which turned out to be an  appropriate level for my 8th and 9th graders. But they were not challenged by it.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I keep wishing AOPS would come out with a physics book.  I think the layout would lend itself well to physics.  

[Loesje22000]

Can she read Dutch?

If so, she might want to look at:

http://www.epsilon-uitgaven.nl/zebra.php

 

https://www.diekeure.be/nl-be/educatief/1675/de-limiet-voorbij-wiskunde-aardrijkskunde-en-sterrenkunde

 

She also might want to take a look at Dutch VWO physics or A-level physics, not all countries have the same end level of physics

[regentrude]

I keep wishing AOPS would come out with a physics book.  I think the layout would lend itself well to physics.  

 

I cannot imagine how to teach physics via discovery method.

[visitor]

What level Physics? What does she consider challenging?

In high school, I used an algebra/trig based College Physics text (I like Knight, Jones and Field; Giancoli is another popular choice) with my kids, which turned out to be an appropriate level for my 8th and 9th graders. But they were not challenged by it.

. She is working on grade 11 now. She wanted a Physics book that looks like AoPs with regard on the Challeging level . She also told us that she wished that her mother would give her more Physics books . That is what she really loves to do ....

[visitor]

Can she read Dutch?

If so, she might want to look at:

http://www.epsilon-uitgaven.nl/zebra.php

 

https://www.diekeure.be/nl-be/educatief/1675/de-limiet-voorbij-wiskunde-aardrijkskunde-en-sterrenkunde

 

She also might want to take a look at Dutch VWO physics or A-level physics, not all countries have the same end level of physics

Thanks Loesje she only can read French and English ..

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I cannot imagine how to teach physics via discovery method.

I see it as guided observations for the principals, followed by the standard problems with explanations for the math, then exercises. They might need a video component for demonstrations if the kid can't get certain equipment, but most of mechanics is pretty easily observable with minimal equipment.

[regentrude]

I see it as guided observations for the principals, followed by the standard problems with explanations for the math, then exercises. They might need a video component for demonstrations if the kid can't get certain equipment, but most of mechanics is pretty easily observable with minimal equipment.

 

and this observation typically leads to misconceptions that the instructor has to eliminate through direct teaching.

 

We clearly see that an object needs to be pushed in order to keep moving. We don't see that it would move forever if friction did not exert a force.

We do not see that objects fall at same acceleration irrespective of mass if we neglect air resistance.

We do not see the difference between velocity and acceleration.

 

I have been teaching introductory physics for 15 years, and students are full of misconceptions they developed through observing mechanics phenomena in daily life for 18 years.

 

If you had to rediscover physics through experimentation, it would take years.

[visitor]

Thanks Arcadia . Her daughter doesn't want to study Engineering .

[Arcadia]

Her daughter doesn't want to study Engineering .

The Feynman Lectures on Physics are online for free. My oldest is interested in the quantum mechanics portion.

http://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu

[daijobu]

 She also told us that she wished that her mother would give her more Physics books . That is what she really loves to do ....

 

So, why doesn't her  mother buy more physics books?  

 

Not a curriculum, but for physics fun, I enjoyed Thinking Physics by Lewis Carroll Epstein.  

 

For modern physics, I also enjoyed Relativity Visualized by the same author.  

[luuknam]

What about Prof Povey's book? I don't remember the exact title, and I did only a few problems (I borrowed it from the library), but it seemed interesting.

[Arcadia]

So, why doesn't her  mother buy more physics books?

 

I am guessing her friend might not have access to a well stocked library or bookstore to browse books before buying.

 

For example if I am in San Mateo county, I would go to B&N Hillsdale rather than B&N Redwood City because it is bigger and more well stocked. While if I am at East Bay, I would go Half Price Bookstores.

What about Prof Povey's book? I don't remember the exact title, and I did only a few problems (I borrowed it from the library), but it seemed interesting.

I think it's this book you are referring to. Professor Povey's Perplexing Problems: Pre-university Physics and Maths Puzzles with Solutions Paperback – September 15, 2015 https://www.amazon.com/Professor-Poveys-Perplexing-Problems-Pre-university/dp/1780747756

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

and this observation typically leads to misconceptions that the instructor has to eliminate through direct teaching.

 

We clearly see that an object needs to be pushed in order to keep moving. We don't see that it would move forever if friction did not exert a force.

We do not see that objects fall at same acceleration irrespective of mass if we neglect air resistance.

We do not see the difference between velocity and acceleration.

 

I have been teaching introductory physics for 15 years, and students are full of misconceptions they developed through observing mechanics phenomena in daily life for 18 years.

 

If you had to rediscover physics through experimentation, it would take years.

 

I've been thinking about this half the night!  

 

Ok, given that our observations are often times not accurate for discerning physical laws, it still seems like walking a person through that process of observation and correction could be done in text form rather than live-teacher form.  But AOPS strength is teaching through full solutions to worked problems, and that can definitely be the meat of a physics text.  

 

And while I'm making everyone say I'm crazy, I'll just throw out there that I'd like an AOPS supplement to chemistry to walk a student through chemistry's applied math the AOPS way as well.  

[regentrude]

Ok, given that our observations are often times not accurate for discerning physical laws, it still seems like walking a person through that process of observation and correction could be done in text form rather than live-teacher form.  But AOPS strength is teaching through full solutions to worked problems, and that can definitely be the meat of a physics text. 

 

Oh, I completely agree that things can be explained via text and not just via live teacher! And fully written and explained solutions are also doable.

 

My point was that the unique quality of the AoPS program, which fundamentally distinguishes it from all other math curricula, is not the explanation and discussion of solutions, but that students are presented with problems to solve first and left to discover the principles through the solving of the chapter problems before any direct teaching begins. This approach, I believe, would be not possible for physics.

 

[Arcadia]

And while I'm making everyone say I'm crazy, I'll just throw out there that I'd like an AOPS supplement to chemistry to walk a student through chemistry's applied math the AOPS way as well.

There is the ChemWOOT online class but it might not be what you are looking for.

https://artofproblemsolving.com/school/woot-chem

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

There is the ChemWOOT online class but it might not be what you are looking for.

https://artofproblemsolving.com/school/woot-chem

 

I hadn't seen this, thank you!  Also, I just like saying ChemWOOT.  

[CadenceSophia]

Susskind's The Theoretical Minimum might be a book she'd enjoy, and it's fairly inexpensive.