nprEd article "4 Things We Don't Know About AP Tests"

[Erica in OR]

Interesting nprEd post yesterday—4 Things We Don't Know About AP Tests.

 

Erica in OR

[MarkT]

"Anecdotally, it appears that fewer colleges may be accepting AP credit. But Warne says there's no central data collection that would let us know for sure. If you can't get college credit, it removes a major economic motivation for taking the courses."

 

Absolutely but maybe just take the course skip the exam - my DS took 4 AP courses this year at his B&M charter, one of them AP Physics 1 Algebra based can't be used for future credit since he will be a STEM major so we skipped the exam - didn't need the extra stress and also pay $93 - but the course was worthwhile because it was more challenging than the regular Physics. It is taught using a college text and Webassign for the problem sets.

 

Would folks still do PAHS if no possible college credit?

[Julie of KY]

My first decision point on doing AP classes is simply that I am looking for great classes for my kids to take - AP or not. Most of the subjects I have taught at home but I need to outsource some classes either because I don't want to teach it or because my kids need to learn outside accountability to another teacher with deadlines, etc. AP classes have   filled the niche I was looking for to further my kids education - it's a bonus if they get college credit for the class.

 

My current senior is only allowed to bring 18 hours of AP credit toward his degree. Some schools only accept 5's on the AP tests, while others take 3's. Not all classes will transfer to schools. When making decisions, we need to take all the available information into account, but AP classes are worthwhile for many reasons other than college credit. They also help validate the rest of my transcript for my kids.

 

 

[Woodland Mist Academy]

"Anecdotally, it appears that fewer colleges may be accepting AP credit. But Warne says there's no central data collection that would let us know for sure. If you can't get college credit, it removes a major economic motivation for taking the courses."

 

Absolutely but maybe just take the course skip the exam - my DS took 4 AP courses this year at his B&M charter, one of them AP Physics 1 Algebra based can't be used for future credit since he will be a STEM major so we skipped the exam - didn't need the extra stress and also pay $93 - but the course was worthwhile because it was more challenging than the regular Physics. It is taught using a college text and Webassign for the problem sets.

 

Would folks still do PAHS if no possible college credit?

 

We would. College credit is just a bonus for us, not the main incentive.

 

ETA: Even now we know some people who take AP classes, but decide not to sit for the exam.

Edited May 3, 2017 by Woodland Mist Academy

[8filltheheart]

Would folks still do PAHS if no possible college credit?

No.

[Guest]

I took AP classes back in the 80's but didn't sit for exams. So that's really nothing new.

[Lori D.]

We would. College credit is just a bonus for us, not the main incentive.

 

Yes, I've often thought how inefficient AP tests are for earning college credit. ;)

 

Dual enrollment and/or CLEP tests are a much quicker method of earning credit, and allow for earning much MORE credit in the same amount of time as taking an AP class and studying all year for AP tests. :) (Of course, just like AP scores, DE and CLEP are also subject to college policies as to whether they will be accepted or not.)

 

Not suggesting there isn't a need or a reason for AP classes and tests, but earning college credit is more of a "perk" than the main reason.

Edited May 3, 2017 by Lori D.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Yes, I've often thought how inefficient AP tests are for earning college credit. ;)

 

Dual enrollment and/or CLEP tests are a much quicker method of earning credit, and allow for earning much MORE credit in the same amount of time as taking an AP class and studying all year for AP tests. :) (Of course, just like AP scores, DE and CLEP are also subject to college policies as to whether they will be accepted or not.)

 

Not suggesting there isn't a need or a reason for AP classes and tests, but earning college credit is more of a "perk" than the main reason.

 

:iagree:

 

We have friends that don't understand why my teen does AP classes and exams when the classes at the local CC and the local 4-year-uni (highly-ranked and well-regarded) are both easier and a much surer bet for college credit. (To be honest, the last two weeks in April and the first two weeks in May, I always wonder myself!  ;) )

 

CLEP would also be a much easier route for credit.  

 

In the end, it's not all about the credit for everyone.

 

 

Edited May 3, 2017 by Woodland Mist Academy

[snowbeltmom]

We would. College credit is just a bonus for us, not the main incentive.

 

ETA: Even now we know some people who take AP classes, but decide not to sit for the exam.

 

We would take AP classes, too, even if there was no possibility of college credit.  I didn't bother signing my senior up for some of his AP exams this year for this exact reason.

 

[SebastianCat]

Yes, I've often thought how inefficient AP tests are for earning college credit. ;)

 

Dual enrollment and/or CLEP tests are a much quicker method of earning credit, and allow for earning much MORE credit in the same amount of time as taking an AP class and studying all year for AP tests. :) (Of course, just like AP scores, DE and CLEP are also subject to college policies as to whether they will be accepted or not.)

 

Not suggesting there isn't a need or a reason for AP classes and tests, but earning college credit is more of a "perk" than the main reason.

My DS will be taking his first (or first two) AP class(es) starting in the fall.   We aren't looking for the easiest, quickest, or most amount of college credit that he can earn while still in high school.  Frankly, this particular child needs more rigor in his coursework and the discipline of working for a full year toward a challenging goal, then sitting for a high stakes exam, will be more beneficial for him than earning an AA at age 17 or 18.   For him, the workload is more important than the credits.

 

My other child is a completely different type of student and I have no idea how her high school courses will look, but at this point (finishing 7th grade), she has a good idea of what she thinks she wants to do, and wants to live at home and finish college as quickly as possible and with as little debt as possible.   She may change her mind between now and then, but for her goals and personality, DE and CLEP may be the way to go.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

The article was much better than I expected.  (I was anticipating something about tips for studying or how the frq are graded.)

 

There is an opportunity cost for AP courses and for the system of weighted gpa associated with them.  In the VA district we lived in a few years ago, most of the high schools had dropped ALL of the honors courses if there was an AP course in that subject.  So no honors US History, only regular and AP; no honors or college prep English, only regular and AP.  This meant that many more students were taking the AP courses, because that became what a serious, college-bound student did.  But they were not all ready to work on a college level in so many subjects in 10-12th grade.  So they either struggled or the courses were softened to meet the level of the students in it.

 

I'm old enough that AP courses were scarce at my high schools.  One school offered none and one only had AP US History.  But both schools had excellent teachers who were definitely teaching to a high level.  I sat for the AP US History exam after a year on the honors US History course and scored well enough to validate the course in college.  I was not the first student in that course to do so.  But more importantly, the course met the students where they were and moved them forward.  I wonder if AP courses have the flexibility to do that given the need to hew to the course descriptions and exam requirements.

 

As a single example, if I were teaching an AP history course, I would have to consider the cost in time for assigning a long research paper.  It is an important skill to spend time in the library finding references, learning to use a database, learning how to write a long argument with proper citations.  It is also something that isn't on the test.  Even the history dbq's provide the references to the student, don't require a regulated scheme of citations and are not very long.  

 

On the other hand, like other education reforms that introduce a measurable accountability system, there can be a lift to schools who are trying to offer courses at a higher level than they had before.  So the positive effect of doing AP may be quite positive in some schools.  How much of a positive feedback look is there for a student who might not feel regularly rewarded by their social circle for academic success to be able to point to a qualifying AP score and think that they are college ready.  It may also give college admissions officers the confidence to say yes to students from schools with less stellar reputations; they can refer to AP scores and have some sense that an individual student is a good choice.

 

One thing I didn't see discussed is the need to provide an avenue for students to self-study and sit for exams.  This would certainly help homeschoolers, but it would also be an option for students at schools that only offer a handful of APs.  It would let them extend AP testing to students in honors courses.  It would encourage students to take online classes like the AP Computer Science or AP Statistics that Edhesive offers.  These might be beyond the resources of an individual school, because there aren't enough students ready or interested.  But if it were more normal to offer a fuller slate of testing, it could be a strong incentive to the students who are stuck in a school setting that isn't up to matching them.

[daijobu]

 

 

Would folks still do PAHS if no possible college credit?

 

We do not take APs for college credit.  If  no credit is awarded, we would still take them.  

 

We take them because they are convenient (online versus dealing with driving and parking (!) at CC).  This appeals to dd, who prefers working more independently, aka, in her bedroom.  

 

We take them because they are a known quantity nationwide, and we get external validation that dd has mastered the specified material.  

 

Dd would rather take a "regular" high school class with "regular" high school students rather than attend a college class with older college students.    

 

She likes taking exams.  

 

These are her preferences, but they happen to align with mine (especially the driving and parking part).