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Math programs - CLE vs. BA


momof4...
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My son is currently doing CLE 200. He is just finishing 205. I was wondering about switching to Beast Academy in grade 3. But I have been reading that a lot of people do CLE 200 and BA 3A and 3B together. Will BA be too easy for him if we complete CLE 200s first? I don't want to do both programs because I just feel like that will be a lot of work. Is BA a full math program if we switch? Or should I stick with CLE?

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Entirely depends on the child if just BA alone will work for your child. There are ways to combine both without overwhelming the student (or the teacher). Each program has its strengths and weaknesses, but again it depends on the child. Mine needed the review and consistency of CLE but they also gained a lot from doing BA on the side. Just BA would not have worked for them. Yours might do just fine. BA is pretty advanced by the way.

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Oh, and is Beast a full program? Yes, it covers everything. It's actually Common Core aligned so they definitely hit every grade level topic. However, it doesn't have a ton of practice and it includes a lot of other, unusual stuff. For that reason (and because it wasn't finished) a lot of people stick with a more traditional program as well to make sure a child is getting enough practice. But for the right kid (especially a gifted math kid who doesn't need all that practice) it could absolutely be a complete program.

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I'm not familiar with CLE, but I agree that BA is a full, challenging program that may or may not be appropriate to use as a stand-alone (depending entirely on the child).  

 

My DS#1 is math-intuitive, mathematically playful, learns quickly, retains most things without review, and enjoys being faced with a problem that no one has ever shown him how to solve.  BA has been perfect for him and is his only math.  

 

My DS#2 learns quickly but needs a steady stream of review and direct instruction.  He is not at all fond of being asked to solve problems no one has explicitly taught him to solve, and he has such a low tolerance for frustration that the challenging problems only caused him stress.  BA was not a good fit for him.  He's now in PS, but if he were home, we'd only be supplementing with BA now and then -- and a grade level behind what his main math is at that.  

 

The pre-assessments are useful; check them out.

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Agree that BA would not be too easy for a child that completed CLE 200.  (Unless your child is a math genius, as mentioned above.)  Honestly, BA is pretty advanced.  You may need to work through the program WITH your child.  As an adult there have been lessons of BA that even I needed help getting through.  BA 3 could even be used with many 4th and 5th graders or even a middle schooler if they liked the cartoon format and had not had exposure to this type of approach before.  It covers things from a different perspective.  

 

You might try out BA over the summer as a "fun" thing a couple of times a week or so.  Work through it together with your child. Go as slow as he needs to truly understand the concepts being covered. Use a white board to work together through the new material then do the review problems.  Keep it light but help him see that the goal is NOT to get to the correct answer.  The goal is to understand HOW and WHY, etc.  Some problems may take time to tweak out.  That is to be expected.  This is not speed math.  It is thinking math.  

 

If it feels like a good fit, but you think your son will also need a more traditional program that included plenty of review (such as with CLE) to improve retention, there are many ways to combine them.  You could use CLE M-Th and BA on Fridays (skipping the quizzes and lesson 17 of CLE).  You could cut out some of the review from the CLE lessons, do a shorter CLE lesson then later in the day do a BA lesson or vice-a-versa.  You could do the new material from two CLE lessons and select review from the second lesson of CLE on Monday, do BA on Tuesday, do new material from two CLE lessons plus select review problems on Wednesday, BA on Thursday, skip the Friday CLE quizzes and just do BA on Fridays.  Or any one of a dozen combinations.

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I just had my 9 year old run through the assessments for BA3. He has just finished 4th grade (NZ year5) and was the top maths student in his class and has done half of MEP7 without much trouble. He said 3C for placement although he did just pass the tests for 3C and 3D.

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Ok thanks everyone . My son is very good at math and is doing CLE 200 very easily. I've just heard that a lot of people use it, so I was wondering . This is my first of 5 kids.. my next two are not math oriented so I may just stick with CLE so all my kids can use it :)

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Ok thanks everyone . My son is very good at math and is doing CLE 200 very easily. I've just heard that a lot of people use it, so I was wondering . This is my first of 5 kids.. my next two are not math oriented so I may just stick with CLE so all my kids can use it :)

If your son is good at math he may really enjoy and get a lot out of BA. You seriously might consider just trying out BA 3 next year or even start it over the summer running at a slower pace alongside CLE as a supplement. Just try the first book. No pressure on you or him. Maybe just twice a week. See how it goes. CLE is a great program but for kids who are mathy it may not expose them to the really exciting, really deep side of math.

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That is the thing . He completes a CLE math lesson in 15 minutes on his own . And he mostly gets 100% of everything right . We haven't even started multiplication yet but he can multiply up to 5 and 10s just by asking him what is 6 groups of 5.... and he can add 135 and 126 in his head. So I want something a little more challenging .

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I would try and go through CLE 2 quickly until it gets harder or he finishes. Then do BA3A and see how he goes (I am assuming you are in the US where it is affordable). If you think it is not enough you could use it as a supplement next year with CLE3.

 

My 7 year old is doing SM2b and I want him to do SM3a and the first 2 fan process skills books (I have all these). Then if he wants and if ds9 is using BA I will let him try BA3a.

Edited by kiwik
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That is the thing . He completes a CLE math lesson in 15 minutes on his own . And he mostly gets 100% of everything right . We haven't even started multiplication yet but he can multiply up to 5 and 10s just by asking him what is 6 groups of 5.... and he can add 135 and 126 in his head. So I want something a little more challenging .

Agree with above, accelerate through the CLE material. Do the new material from two lessons and only select review each day. Circle just a couple of review problems for him to do if he seems to get the material well. Skip the quizzes. Keep moving through the material until he hits an area he needs more review. He could complete a light unit every week and a half to two weeks. If he is still really moving quickly, understanding what he is doing, and retaining then you might consider introducing new material from the first 4 lessons of the next light unit, let him do the review problems for the 4th lesson, do the new material from the next 4 lessons plus review from the last lesson or a mixture, and keep doing that until he has finished the light unit. Skip the quizzes and only do the test if you feel you need to confirm he is really understanding. When you get to Light Unit 210, do only the new material and the immediate review of the previous concept problems for all but the last two normal lessons. Have him do the entire lesson for the last two normal lessons and see how he does.

 

Light Unit 301 is entirely review of Level 2 so what you might consider is introducing the new material only for 206, then give the test (review anything he didn't retain), then do 207 as normal to get review of previous concepts as he learns new ones, then do only the new material from 208 and give the test (review anything he didn't retain), then do 209 as normal, then for 210 do only the new material for the first half of the light unit, do the full lessons for the 2nd half and the test. 301 will review everything again anyway. Only keep doing this for the remainder of the 200s if he seems to be retaining the vast majority of the material.

 

Once he is done, start him on the first book of BA 3 and see how he does. He may really enjoy Beast. If he is connecting with the material but seems to be losing some of his previously gained skills from CLE, have him move through CLE 301 to review previous concepts, solidify gaps with some review on a while board, and use CLE as the spine with Beast supplementing. It really isn't as hard as it may sound to combine them.

Edited by OneStepAtATime
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DS went from cle200 into ba3 and head no trouble with it at all. But! The caveat here is that he read the ba books for fun for several months before he dove into the ba practice books, a "method" I HIGHLY recommend.

 

Incidentally, he asked to be allowed to do cle and ba, both. He hits cle almost every day now and ba practice books sometimes. He still reads ba for fun (and clearly absorbs the info just from reading it). He's considered accelerated, for whatever that's worth, but I keep him on grade level in cle.

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We went from MM to Beast. DS finished MM 3 A and B and then moved to Beast 3A for the beginning of last year. I'll print off a few pages of MM for extra practice on occasion. The thing that has really been surprising is that after he finishes a Beast chapter, he flies through the MM pages I print out like they're the easiest things in the world. It's been really interesting to see how well and thoroughly he's learning from BA.

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