Fixed Mindset vs Growth Mindset

[creekland]

Once again I've been asked how I can get some kids who won't work (well) for others to work for me.  What do I do/say?

 

A ton has to do with their mindset - getting them to want to work.  A ton of that depends upon making a connection with them (listening to them), then what I say.  It's tough to describe with written words TBH.

 

But now... youngest son shared an older (2012) Ted talk (10 minutes) that describes it pretty well.  If you're interested, I thought I'd share it:

 

 

The first part is a little slow (IMO, of course) but then Mr. Briceno gets into the heart of it all - all about mindset and changing theirs (perhaps ours as well).  Intelligence is only fixed if one believes it is...

[Another Lynn]

Thanks for posting this I look forward to watching it tomorrow morning. (I have internet issues).

[creekland]

Thanks for posting this I look forward to watching it tomorrow morning. (I have internet issues).

 

We've just upgraded our internet capability here at home (literally - did it this morning).  I love the difference!  We'll probably end up dropping our landline to offset the cost though.  I figured sooner or later we should buy an automobile and retire the horse & buggy... 

[Another Lynn]

Thanks again for sharing the video.  It's a good refresher/summary of some of the important points in the book (which I read awhile back).  And I love the illustration of Josh Waitzkins!  We're big fans!

[swellmomma]

Once again I've been asked how I can get some kids who won't work (well) for others to work for me. What do I do/say?

 

A ton has to do with their mindset - getting them to want to work. A ton of that depends upon making a connection with them (listening to them), then what I say. It's tough to describe with written words TBH.

 

But now... youngest son shared an older (2012) Ted talk (10 minutes) that describes it pretty well. If you're interested, I thought I'd share it:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN34FNbOKXc

 

The first part is a little slow (IMO, of course) but then Mr. Briceno gets into the heart of it all - all about mindset and changing theirs (perhaps ours as well). Intelligence is only fixed if one believes it is...

I just finished listening to the book drive. And this issue of mindset was discussed in it too. Was a really good book with ideas beyond mindset but that aspect is so important.

[creekland]

I just finished listening to the book drive. And this issue of mindset was discussed in it too. Was a really good book with ideas beyond mindset but that aspect is so important.

 

There is definitely more to mindset, but the wrong mindset can "ruin" things IME.  

 

We get so many kids coming to us (in high school) already feeling they know where they fit on the intelligence scale (due to previous experiences).  "Dumb" kids feel they can't improve.  "Smart" kids wonder what happened when they don't instantly pick something up - then start feeling they aren't actually smart.

 

I spend quite a bit of my time explaining how our brains develop & learn and trying to convince kids that they shouldn't be labeling themselves by 9th grade... it would help if kids grew up from their younger years with a different mindset.  Being an education board, I thought if even one parent/teacher who didn't realize the nuances of what we say saw the difference and were able to change things, it's worth posting.  Not everyone will end up being MIT worthy just like not every football player who wants to can end up in the NFL, but most kids can do so much more than they think they can if only their mindset is different - pretty much like the graphs shown in the video about the difficult puzzle.

[Ms Brooks]

Thanks so much for sharing this video. I stopped at less than 2 min. into the video and hit pause. The cult of specialness, "I am too good to work hard," really struck a chord with me. I find that the adolescent ego has a hard time navigating between the fixed mindset of a know-it-all and a more inquisitive growth mindset. Often the adolescent mind blends the two depending on the circumstance. Deliberate practice is very challenging to both teach and learn. Unfortunately, our culture is moving toward an intolerance of mistakes/failure. Expectations are for perfection with no room for growth. To make mistakes in a math problem set lowers one's grade, but without those mistakes a student does not learn. 

[hornblower]

Thanks for this. Much needed here with my ds. 

[KathyBC]

The book you are referring to is Mindset by Carol Dweck?

[wintermom]

Thanks for sharing this. It helps to describe a quality which makes some people willing to work hard, while others give up.  It does seem a bit of a "chicken and egg" question for me, though. I don't understand fully how research has proven which comes first when striving for success, the willingness to try, or the mindset that I can get better?

 

And what about certain people that continue to try even when they see that they are not getting better, and sometimes they're even getting worse (e.g., older adults/athletes, disabled people). I know a lot of athletes whose times are continually getting worse because of their age. They are not improving, and yet they are continuing to train and compete. It's not the same "growth mindset" that is working here. I believe that pinning down motivation factors in humans is a lot more complex that the simplicity of this TED talk states.

[creekland]

Thanks so much for sharing this video. I stopped at less than 2 min. into the video and hit pause. The cult of specialness, "I am too good to work hard," really struck a chord with me. I find that the adolescent ego has a hard time navigating between the fixed mindset of a know-it-all and a more inquisitive growth mindset. Often the adolescent mind blends the two depending on the circumstance. Deliberate practice is very challenging to both teach and learn. Unfortunately, our culture is moving toward an intolerance of mistakes/failure. Expectations are for perfection with no room for growth. To make mistakes in a math problem set lowers one's grade, but without those mistakes a student does not learn.

 

We often learn more from our mistakes TBH.  Our brains don't like making them, so will take note and try to fix things - as long as we believe we can learn from them and take the time to do so.

 

When kids get flustered about their mistakes, this is the first thing I tell them (or remind them of) to keep them on track with me.  In school, I dislike grading (some) homework for this reason.  It can be a tough call because often kids won't do homework unless there's a grade reward.  :glare:

 

The book you are referring to is Mindset by Carol Dweck?

 

That's the book this comes from, yes.  I haven't read the whole book myself TBH.

 

Thanks for sharing this. It helps to describe a quality which makes some people willing to work hard, while others give up.  It does seem a bit of a "chicken and egg" question for me, though. I don't understand fully how research has proven which comes first when striving for success, the willingness to try, or the mindset that I can get better?

 

And what about certain people that continue to try even when they see that they are not getting better, and sometimes they're even getting worse (e.g., older adults/athletes, disabled people). I know a lot of athletes whose times are continually getting worse because of their age. They are not improving, and yet they are continuing to train and compete. It's not the same "growth mindset" that is working here. I believe that pinning down motivation factors in humans is a lot more complex that the simplicity of this TED talk states.

 

I bet they are better for their age group because they continue - same with disability group.  One can't overcome (all) physical disabilities simply due to willpower, but that doesn't mean they don't see improvement or continuity within their peers.

 

In general though, 'tis very complex.  The majority of what I see (my experience) comes from the oodles of students I work with in the high school.  A student who believes they can do something and is willing to work at it does better than they did without that belief.   It won't necessarily make a top champion out of them if they aren't physically built for that.  

 

Desire matters a bit too.  I'm artistically challenged.  I'm sure I could get better at it (than I already am) if I wanted to, but art projects of any sort aren't my love so I prefer to devote my time to other things.  That's all still mindset - just a different direction.

[Ms Brooks]

Thanks for sharing this. It helps to describe a quality which makes some people willing to work hard, while others give up.  It does seem a bit of a "chicken and egg" question for me, though. I don't understand fully how research has proven which comes first when striving for success, the willingness to try, or the mindset that I can get better?

 

And what about certain people that continue to try even when they see that they are not getting better, and sometimes they're even getting worse (e.g., older adults/athletes, disabled people). I know a lot of athletes whose times are continually getting worse because of their age. They are not improving, and yet they are continuing to train and compete. It's not the same "growth mindset" that is working here. I believe that pinning down motivation factors in humans is a lot more complex that the simplicity of this TED talk states.

 

As an older adult athlete who came to a sport after the age of 50, I do battle with having a fixed mindset vs a growth mindset all the time. I train, i compete, and I come in last. For my age group I am very slow. It can get discouraging. Yes, there are days when I wonder why I continue with my sport, but continue I do. Every time I get in the pool I give myself a goal to work on. Can I get fast enough to be competitive? I'm not sure, but I'm working on it. I am hoping that in time I will speed up and my age group will slow down enough with age that I my times will be more competitive.

 

At the end of this Ted Talk there is a bit on self-talk. I think this is important. Mindset is very fluid. I think a mindset is always at work whether it is a fixed mindset or a growth mindset. It is this self-talk that determines how one approaches a challenge and the motivation behind that approach. 

[creekland]

Motivation is more complex than 'just' mindset.

 

I puffy heart love motivation in all its complexities. Motivational psychology encompasses things like autonomy and competence needs as well. 

 

But mindset can still be a 'wow' discovery - I can't even tell anyone how much it's transformed not only my self view but my achievements, to embrace a growth mindset. It's very empowering, to know that effort and attention have just as much impact on who you are and what you do, as any inborn talent or intelligence quotient, be that low, middle or high.

 

Well said - much better than what I wrote.  Thanks for adding!

[wintermom]

 Intelligence is only fixed if one believes it is...

 

That's part of the problem of this TED talk, is that it takes at least three major areas, intelligence, learning and motivation, and tries to crunch them all down into one variable, which he doesn't really define well. There is just not enough data that he mentions (700 high school students) with only one thing different between them? And from this "study" he generalizes to this talk. It just sounds like pop "science" for his little niche in the motivational talk circuit. 

 

It's great if this helps frame an idea upon which to build on, but as most people are saying, these areas are much more complex than this talk suggests.

[creekland]

It's great if this helps frame an idea upon which to build on, but as most people are saying, these areas are much more complex than this talk suggests.

 

I'd love to see anyone address everything well in a 10 minute Ted Talk.   :lol:

 

To me, something like this video can open minds that there is something to be interested in - to see that simply telling a student "you're smart" or ignoring their saying, "I don't get it" is not necessarily the best way to go about training their minds.  Hopefully they'll want to investigate further with the little tidbits he shows.

 

People (usually) adapt to new ways of thinking in short bits.  One plants a seed.  It may, or may not, grow.  Without a seed there's very little chance of changing the "old" ways of belief that were rarely built upon much solid behavioral science studies.  They were generally built on personal thoughts - "this worked for me, it should work for everyone" and labeling kids it doesn't work with as incorrigible.

 

(That paragraph is a summary too, of course - not an in depth class on it all.)

[wintermom]

I'd love to see anyone address everything well in a 10 minute Ted Talk.   :lol:

 

To me, something like this video can open minds that there is something to be interested in - to see that simply telling a student "you're smart" or ignoring their saying, "I don't get it" is not necessarily the best way to go about training their minds.  Hopefully they'll want to investigate further with the little tidbits he shows.

 

People (usually) adapt to new ways of thinking in short bits.  One plants a seed.  It may, or may not, grow.  Without a seed there's very little chance of changing the "old" ways of belief that were rarely built upon much solid behavioral science studies.  They were generally built on personal thoughts - "this worked for me, it should work for everyone" and labeling kids it doesn't work with as incorrigible.

 

(That paragraph is a summary too, of course - not an in depth class on it all.)

 

Well you are obviously sold on this idea. Maybe you can find something less salesman-like that actually describes it in more detail to share here.

[creekland]

Well you are obviously sold on this idea. Maybe you can find something less salesman-like that actually describes it in more detail to share here.

 

Eh, I use the idea and have instinctively all of my teaching years (which go back to '99 in my public high school).  As stated in my OP, it's how I get many kids who don't work for others to actually do things (try) for me.  I often get questions IRL and sometimes on here from folks who wonder "how I do it."  It's tough for me to explain because it comes so instinctively for me.  I'm not really up on names or labels for ideas TBH.  I learn some of them after the fact and realize that's what I've been doing.

 

To me, this video gives people an idea of what it is all about in a short period of time.  I don't really need to "sell" the idea to anyone (especially online).  If folks are interested, they can look into it more.  If not, then like any other thread - we read them, see it doesn't apply to our situation, and move on.

Edited December 19, 2016 by creekland

[EugenVT]

I've read Carol's book three times! What an inspiring gal.
Loved her so much. Actually, I think you guys might love these books as well http://www.businessmem.com/9-books-that-will-improve-your-teaching-style/

[Another Lynn]

I've read Carol's book three times! What an inspiring gal.

Loved her so much. Actually, I think you guys might love these books as well http://www.businessmem.com/9-books-that-will-improve-your-teaching-style/

 

Welcome to the WTM Forum!  And thanks for the link - I've seen a few of those books mentioned here before.  I'll put them on my list.   :thumbup1:

[swellmomma]

There is definitely more to mindset, but the wrong mindset can "ruin" things IME.

 

We get so many kids coming to us (in high school) already feeling they know where they fit on the intelligence scale (due to previous experiences). "Dumb" kids feel they can't improve. "Smart" kids wonder what happened when they don't instantly pick something up - then start feeling they aren't actually smart.

 

I spend quite a bit of my time explaining how our brains develop & learn and trying to convince kids that they shouldn't be labeling themselves by 9th grade... it would help if kids grew up from their younger years with a different mindset. Being an education board, I thought if even one parent/teacher who didn't realize the nuances of what we say saw the difference and were able to change things, it's worth posting. Not everyone will end up being MIT worthy just like not every football player who wants to can end up in the NFL, but most kids can do so much more than they think they can if only their mindset is different - pretty much like the graphs shown in the video about the difficult puzzle.

That's not what i was saying, i was simply saying the book drive was about more than mindset, but that the information about mindset was in there. Edited December 19, 2016 by swellmomma

[Guest]

I have had good success with the concept of 'smart enough'...I.e. if you are admitted to the class, then you are smart enough to get the A,if you are willing to ask for clarification when needed and put the study time in. The hard thing is that doesn't work for all classes, as we still have teachers who are using grades for ranking -- one does not earn a grade in those classes. The students won't work for those teachers if they aren't the predesignated winners.

[hornblower]

I have had good success with the concept of 'smart enough'...I.e. if you are admitted to the class, then you are smart enough to get the A,if you are willing to ask for clarification when needed and put the study time in. The hard thing is that doesn't work for all classes, as we still have teachers who are using grades for ranking -- one does not earn a grade in those classes. The students won't work for those teachers if they aren't the predesignated winners.

 

Unfortunately here there are faculties / professors (primarily in the humanities) where if you do all that that's a C+.  

 

As are reserved for truly exceptional work & some profs brag they haven't given an A to an undergrad in years. 

[wintermom]

Eh, I use the idea and have instinctively all of my teaching years (which go back to '99 in my public high school).  As stated in my OP, it's how I get many kids who don't work for others to actually do things (try) for me.  I often get questions IRL and sometimes on here from folks who wonder "how I do it."  It's tough for me to explain because it comes so instinctively for me.  I'm not really up on names or labels for ideas TBH.  I learn some of them after the fact and realize that's what I've been doing.

 

To me, this video gives people an idea of what it is all about in a short period of time.  I don't really need to "sell" the idea to anyone (especially online).  If folks are interested, they can look into it more.  If not, then like any other thread - we read them, see it doesn't apply to our situation, and move on.

 

I didn't actually mean you were the salesman, but the TED talk guy sure comes across that way, especially when he tries to tie in quasi-research. I'm curious about the actual studies that may have been done in this area, though. If you find any, then I'd be interested in reading the original studies. 

 

Anecdotal information definitely has it's place, but it would be nice to see what studies of 1000+ people can come up with, too, right?

[hornblower]

Is it possible that all Ted talks leave you cold? Because honestly I'm kind of meh on Teds, especially once I watched this one. It spoiled them forever more. 

[Another Lynn]

I didn't actually mean you were the salesman, but the TED talk guy sure comes across that way, especially when he tries to tie in quasi-research. I'm curious about the actual studies that may have been done in this area, though. If you find any, then I'd be interested in reading the original studies. 

 

Anecdotal information definitely has it's place, but it would be nice to see what studies of 1000+ people can come up with, too, right?

 

Have you read Mindset by Carol S. Dweck, PhD?

[wintermom]

Have you read Mindset by Carol S. Dweck, PhD?

 

Have you read it? The website made me gag. It's a self-help thing. Makes me want to run the other way. No wonder the TED talk had a flavour of salesman.

[creekland]

Have you read it? The website made me gag. It's a self-help thing. Makes me want to run the other way. No wonder the TED talk had a flavour of salesman.

 

What's wrong with self-help things?  In general, I encourage folks to identify things they don't like about themselves and figure out ways to change them.  I get bugged by people who say they want to change, but then never actually do anything about it.  They want someone else to fix stuff for them I suppose.

 

I can easily see where someone who doesn't get into self-help things is turned off by the growth mindset, so your reaction makes sense.  The two pretty much go together.  One has to believe they can do it to be able to do it.

Edited December 21, 2016 by creekland

[creekland]

Is it possible that all Ted talks leave you cold? Because honestly I'm kind of meh on Teds, especially once I watched this one. It spoiled them forever more. 

 

 

FWIW, I don't have time to watch extra stuff for the next couple of weeks.  My schedule is super filled - or I'm in public places... so I can't see this "winner."  ;)  I'll take your word on it that it's not worth my time.  

 

As for Ted Talks in general, I find them to pretty much match anything else - one takes their chances and wins some and loses some.

[hornblower]

FWIW, I don't have time to watch extra stuff for the next couple of weeks.  My schedule is super filled - or I'm in public places... so I can't see this "winner."   ;)  I'll take your word on it that it's not worth my time.  

 

As for Ted Talks in general, I find them to pretty much match anything else - one takes their chances and wins some and loses some.

Oh, it's definitely worth watching.. and it's short. 

 

It's actually brilliant in its own way. I don't want to spoil it but I think you'd find it funny :)  

[creekland]

Oh, it's definitely worth watching.. and it's short. 

 

It's actually brilliant in its own way. I don't want to spoil it but I think you'd find it funny :)

 

I'll try to remember it another time.  I'm with my mom now in a hotel room (she's sleeping and I don't want to wake her and didn't bring headphones).  Tomorrow we're in a hospital all day (again without headphones, so perhaps on here if I'm waiting, but definitely not watching vidoes).  The following two days we're on the road all day fetching kids and returning them to mom's house for Christmas.  Then we're on the road again for another two days, at my in-laws, then back on the road, then with my kids (and a friend or two) at our house until Jan 4th.  When we're with people I hope to be social.  Some morning (when not in a hotel) I might get to watch it. ;)

 

Or, when that's all done I might be able to breathe - or I might be on the road again back up here.  Time will tell.  I expect time to fly.

[Another Lynn]

(((Creekland)))  Hope things with your Mom are going well.  Wishing you safe travels and a Merry Christmas!  

[Another Lynn]

Have you read it? The website made me gag. It's a self-help thing. Makes me want to run the other way. No wonder the TED talk had a flavour of salesman.

 

Yes, I have read it.  I have not been to the website.  Have you read the book?

[creekland]

(((Creekland)))  Hope things with your Mom are going well.  Wishing you safe travels and a Merry Christmas!  

 

Thanks.  So much of our future (including schedule) will depend upon today's PET scan and whatever is said in the appts (9 doctors if I'm understanding things correctly).

 

That said, while I was showering this morning I thought of the perfect time to watch the video... when my college boys and their friends are around.  That way we can laugh at it together.  It could be quite fun!  ;)  (This presumes that time happens.  If things don't go well today, I'll probably stay with my mom.)

[wintermom]

Yes, I have read it.  I have not been to the website.  Have you read the book?

 

When I'm looking for scientific research, I don't usually go to a self-help book. If this author has any scientific publications, then I'll read those. 

[hornblower]

When I'm looking for scientific research, I don't usually go to a self-help book. If this author has any scientific publications, then I'll read those. 

 

I don't understand why you're so snippy about this? 

 

She does have scientific publications. She has a PhD from Yale & is faculty at Stanford. 

 

This is her page at Stanford https://psychology.stanford.edu/cdweck

 

she has some publications listed there. 

 

Google schoolar also has a listing as well https://scholar.google.ca/citations?user=AW49xiMAAAAJ&hl=en

 

I mean you don't have to like her or agree with her ideas but you're making it sound like it's all made up and she's an academic fraud or something...? I don't get it. 

[creekland]

I don't understand why you're so snippy about this? 

 

She does have scientific publications. She has a PhD from Yale & is faculty at Stanford. 

 

This is her page at Stanford https://psychology.stanford.edu/cdweck

 

she has some publications listed there. 

 

Google schoolar also has a listing as well https://scholar.google.ca/citations?user=AW49xiMAAAAJ&hl=en

 

I mean you don't have to like her or agree with her ideas but you're making it sound like it's all made up and she's an academic fraud or something...? I don't get it. 

 

:iagree:  Thanks for filling all this in.

[wintermom]

What's wrong with self-help things? 

 

The same thing that is wrong with anecdotal information when you want to look at evidence-based information. It's not based on solid research (e.g., with a large sample size, randomized trials when possible). It tends to take an idea and fit in support for that idea, ignoring all the information that doesn't support the idea or even negate the idea.

[idnib]

The same thing that is wrong with anecdotal information when you want to look at evidence-based information. It's not based on solid research (e.g., with a large sample size, randomized trials when possible). It tends to take an idea and fit in support for that idea, ignoring all the information that doesn't support the idea or even negate the idea.

 

http://letmegooglethat.com/?q=carol+dweck+scholar+papers

 

It's tongue in cheek, but really if you know the person's name and affiliation, you can get the info if you want it. It might be better to do that and then approach the conversation than to argue about the woman's easily researched background and work.

Edited December 22, 2016 by idnib

[wintermom]

 

I mean you don't have to like her or agree with her ideas but you're making it sound like it's all made up and she's an academic fraud or something...? I don't get it. 

 

Ya, I'm probably over-cautious because one of my advisors at university was quite pushy about building a business around his research "discoveries" and had all his grad students doing study after study to "support" his findings. Just because one has a Ph.D. and does years of research, doesn't mean it flawless.

 

I tend to appreciate people who clearly define the limitations of their findings, and be realistic about how much the results can be generalized. 

[creekland]

Ya, I'm probably over-cautious because one of my advisors at university was quite pushy about building a business around his research "discoveries" and had all his grad students doing study after study to "support" his findings. Just because one has a Ph.D. and does years of research, doesn't mean it flawless.

 

I tend to appreciate people who clearly define the limitations of their findings, and be realistic about how much the results can be generalized. 

 

FWIW, very little (if any) research is flawless and pretty much everything to do with humans is variable to some extent with multiple confounding variables at play.

 

Those two facts hardly means there's nothing to this idea.  It just means it won't be perfect as a theory.  Nothing works 100% of the time.

 

I can tell you it doesn't work well (perhaps at all) on students who are on drugs (at the time).  IME, that's the only group I (personally) have trouble with.  I've yet to meet anyone who has had more success with those on drugs at the time though.

 

Regardless.  YMMV  I mainly relate from my own experiences (working in our public high school for 16 years) and folks can take them or ditch them as they please.  We all do that with info we encounter.

[wintermom]

FWIW, very little (if any) research is flawless and pretty much everything to do with humans is variable to some extent with multiple confounding variables at play.

 

Those two facts hardly means there's nothing to this idea.  It just means it won't be perfect as a theory.  Nothing works 100% of the time.

 

I can tell you it doesn't work well (perhaps at all) on students who are on drugs (at the time).  IME, that's the only group I (personally) have trouble with.  I've yet to meet anyone who has had more success with those on drugs at the time though.

 

Regardless.  YMMV  I mainly relate from my own experiences (working in our public high school for 16 years) and folks can take them or ditch them as they please.  We all do that with info we encounter.

 

Absolutely true about dealing with humans in research. 

 

So you are telling me that you've never had a student who refuses to put in the work needed to achieve a certain level skill using the growth mindset feedback strategy? My son's violin ensemble teacher uses a similar strategy, though coming from the Ukraine and being in his 60s I highly doubt he calls it "growth mindset," and it is still a struggle to get my son to put in the amount of work needed to reach the level of violin playing the teacher expects. There is still a ton of time, effort and sweat that needs to go into achieving skills at high levels. Even with the encouragement to "learn" and "grow" and "get better" not every kid wants to put in the effort for an extended period of time. 

 

These are the kinds of limitations - reality - that would be more helpful than the statement that "if you do this all will be perfect."

Edited December 23, 2016 by wintermom

[creekland]

Absolutely true about dealing with humans in research. 

 

So you are telling me that you've never had a student who refuses to put in the work needed to achieve a certain level skill using the growth mindset feedback strategy? My son's violin ensemble teacher uses a similar strategy, though coming from the Ukraine and being in his 60s I highly doubt he calls it "growth mindset," and it is still a struggle to get my son to put in the amount of work needed to reach the level of violin playing the teacher expects. There is still a ton of time, effort and sweat that needs to go into achieving skills at high levels. Even with the encouragement to "learn" and "grow" and "get better" not every kid wants to put in the effort for an extended period of time. 

 

These are the kinds of limitations - reality - that would be more helpful than the statement that "if you do this all will be perfect."

 

I'm talking stats, not individuals.  Stats never apply to the individual, and especially not for humans.

 

There are definitely always kids/humans who have no interest in something.  Without interest they have no desire to put in the work even if they believe they can.  My parents (both music teachers) let me quit piano lessons when I was 5 or 6 because they saw I had no interest.  I still have no regrets (nor do they).

 

In school, to get a student to do their best I have to get them to believe they can do it (mindset) and make it as interesting as I can.  Those are two things that work well for my classes/groups.  Then there are other issues like home issues (esp if I have parents at home telling their student how "dumb" all that "crap" is when the youngster shows interest and take it home to share - it happens), development issues (mental, organizational), and similar things.

 

This thread/idea only deals with one component - one I believe is very important.  I've never said there weren't others - just without the solid belief that one can do something, trying to get it to happen is tough.  Then too, when one believes they are smart, then comes across something they don't get, it can be devastating.  All of a sudden they realize they are "dumb!"  NOT so.  They just might have to work to learn something for their first time in their lives.  I've seen (and combated) both ends of the spectrum.

 

If educators believe someone can't do something - fixed mindset - it's not a good thing.

 

Again, not everyone will make it to MIT (or pro sports) just because they believe they can, but few are there who thought they couldn't (unless just meaning due to odds).  Individuals who believe they can do something sure make it farther than those who don't.

[wintermom]

I'm talking stats, not individuals.  Stats never apply to the individual, and especially not for humans.

 

There are definitely always kids/humans who have no interest in something.  Without interest they have no desire to put in the work even if they believe they can.  My parents (both music teachers) let me quit piano lessons when I was 5 or 6 because they saw I had no interest.  I still have no regrets (nor do they).

 

In school, to get a student to do their best I have to get them to believe they can do it (mindset) and make it as interesting as I can.  Those are two things that work well for my classes/groups.  Then there are other issues like home issues (esp if I have parents at home telling their student how "dumb" all that "crap" is when the youngster shows interest and take it home to share - it happens), development issues (mental, organizational), and similar things.

 

This thread/idea only deals with one component - one I believe is very important.  I've never said there weren't others - just without the solid belief that one can do something, trying to get it to happen is tough.  Then too, when one believes they are smart, then comes across something they don't get, it can be devastating.  All of a sudden they realize they are "dumb!"  NOT so.  They just might have to work to learn something for their first time in their lives.  I've seen (and combated) both ends of the spectrum.

 

If educators believe someone can't do something - fixed mindset - it's not a good thing.

 

Again, not everyone will make it to MIT (or pro sports) just because they believe they can, but few are there who thought they couldn't (unless just meaning due to odds).  Individuals who believe they can do something sure make it farther than those who don't.

 

I'd be interested in your methods in your own words. It's the references to other people's ideas I'm very confused by. They seem to try to be far too general-this-will-work-for-everyone.