When you aren't 100% sure what grade they should be--- will this work?

[Soror]

My son was born the day before the local cut-off however for hs'ing I don't have to declare his grade. I've always hoped that it would become clear at some point what I should do but unfortunately I'm still not clear here at year 6/7. 

 

I was thinking at this point my plan would be to go forward counting next year as 8th/ putting his 9th-grade year as the earlier option. My thought being that it would be easier to decide to add a year at the end than to try and graduate him earlier since not all classes count for high school level.  I'm concerned that if we aim for him to graduate on the later side he'll be past ready to be done as he will turn 19 shortly after graduating in that plan. The problem is that I can't tell the future but am trying to make a plan based on my best guesses. I talked to him about it the other day and he is thrilled with the idea of being on a faster track- he's been talking about wanting to do more advanced work. Of course, there are pluses to the later track as well- more time for maturation and the ability to perform at a higher level both in highschool (which will look better on transcripts and when he goes off to college). 

 

My son is laid back kid with definite strengths and weaknesses- officially diagnosed ADHD. I've accommodated in our hs as was laid out in our NP eval. He types for most of his written work as that is his biggest weakness. He is fabulous with reading and discussion so we utilize both. He is not a fast worker but a deep thinker. 

 

 

As it is I think he will be on track for an avg. 9th grade schedule year after next, which I believe would suit him well. He's bright but not a super achiever. He's working on pre-Algebra now(he went through JA the end of last year- did half of MUS pre-A this year for more practice until we ditched it, we're now working on AoPS pre-A- just half-way through Chp 2- so far so good- fingers crossed). We are tentatively planning to finish AoPS pre-A next year and perhaps run through an easier Algebra program(like TT) to help prep him for Algebra in 9th.

 

Is there anything I'm missing or not considering? Anyone going through/went through this with their kid- what did you decide?

 

*I'm not looking for a discussion about the evils of redshirting from those opposed. 

[Farrar]

Soror, I could have written your post down to so many of the details. We had to declare grade - I have them down as 7th. They meet the cut off by three whole days. But they would miss it in both our neighboring states by the better part of a month (our cut off is end of the September, most states is start of the month). Same deal - I thought it would be clear by now if we needed to bump down, but it's not. It's just not. Ditto the weaknesses in written work, ditto smart thinkers but not fast workers or high achievers. I have one halfway through Pre-Algebra and the other is just starting Algebra I, but I suspect he'll go very slowly through it. He might even still be finishing at the start of what should be 9th grade.

 

I don't really have any advice - obviously no BTDT advice. My current plan is similar - press through and let them graduate just before they turn 18, not just before they turn 19. But I'm planning to strongly encourage a gap year.

 

I'm really curious to hear what advice people give you.

Edited December 3, 2016 by Farrar

[Lisa in the UP of MI]

We're in the same situation.  Our oldest was born 1.5 weeks after the cut off but we chose to put her in the higher grade level.  She fits in well as a 7th grader, both in her studies and with peers.  She would not be happy to finish high school at almost 19, and is already asking if she can graduate early.  She probably could, but I don't think we'll chose that option.  It sounds like you want to leave both options on the table, making sure that his 8/9th grade year will be high school worthy.  That sounds like a good plan to me.

Edited December 3, 2016 by Lisa in the UP of MI

[hornblower]

We slowed.  Mine had similar issues, esp w/ written output and they really needed the extra time to ramp up academic writing.  

 

I guess it depends on your jurisdiction whether you actually need to decide? We never really did because  nobody here cares what grade we call anything.   We didn't even really need a transcript though I did at one point make one up for dd; I just made the dates/grades line up with what made sense, working backwards from where she was, kwim?  Ds is still learning at home this one last year, again ramping up writing & just maturing & learning study skills & time management etc etc.  If he had had a super duper growth year last year & was ready, he could have gone this Sep but really, we knew that wasn't an option. 

My guess is by the time your ds is about 16/17 yo, you'll have a good sense of how things will play out & can really decide then.  

[Barb_]

I have them start high school in order to graduate at 17 and then at the end if they don't feel ready, I just give them a super senior year and call the last four years high school. Does that make sense? So maybe if they graduate at 17 algebra one is the first math credit but if they graduate at 18 then it's geometry. I've done that for all of my summer and fall birthdays. One decided to go on time and two decided to take an extra year to mature

[Lori D.]

1. I absolutely wouldn't worry about or consider age at/just after graduation in your decision-making.

A LOT of students are age 19, or 18-turning-19-within a few months of graduation, as it has been a trend in schools for the past 15+ years to encourage delaying entry (esp. for boys) into kinder, to give them more time to mature and be more ready for reading and seat-work.

 

2. School at his level.

Since he's working at 7th grade level, then do 8th grade next year. Not a problem.

 

3. Determining grade level.

This is really the heart of the matter for you, but unless you live in an area with homeschooling regulations that *require* you to declare grade level, you really do not have to make that decision right now -- and not even during high school. The only point in high school that "locks you in" for declaring a grade level is taking the PSAT test in 11th grade (because 11th graders who score high on the PSAT are eligible for possible scholarship $$).

 

So just move forward with the work DS is ready for; and if that means next year is 8th and the year after is 9th, great! Or, if you find that you get in to next year and it's too much, or if you get into that 9th grade year with all high school level material and it's too much all at once, then slow down/back off in a few subject areas, and consider that year a "bonus year" of middle school that has a few advanced 9th grade courses -- and if that's the case, you can "bring up" some high school level credits done in middle school onto the high school transcript:

 

- Math = Algebra 1 and above

- Science = Biology and above

- Foreign Language = when of high school levels, and when continuing with progressive levels into high school

 

(Note: English, History, Fine Arts, and Electives are not "brought up" from middle school (unless there's an extraordinary circumstance, or in the case when the student ends up graduating a year early, and then 8th grade and the high school classes taken that year become 9th grade). The reason being, that they are a bit "mushy" compared to the clear, increasing level of rigor and progression in the Maths, Sciences, and levels of Foreign Language.)

 

4. Students change/mature a LOT during the high school years.

The 12yo boy who can't focus or write now, will amaze you with what he can do rigor-wise and focus-wise at age 16 and 17. And, 7th/8th grade work is NOT 11th/12th grade work. It's hard, but try NOT to look at your student where he is now and panic that he can't write a multi-paragraph essay in one sitting -- because that's an older high school skill, not a middle school skill. ;) Just like you wouldn't expect the average middle schooler to be able to handle Algebra 2 or Pre-Calculus problems right now. :)

 

The main thing is to just proceed at his level and pace, keep good records once you start doing any high school level classes, and if you don't have to declare a grade now (or for the year you start 9th), then together you and DS can decide a few years down the line what official grade he's in for testing purposes, for doing possible dual enrollment, and for college admissions. High school is actually a bit more flexible than you might have guessed. ;)

 

BEST of luck! Warmly, Lori D.

 

 

PS

Not trying to contribute to the debate about age/graduation, but in case it helps to hear various experiences, our experience was with older graduation, and it was a very good experience:

 

Both of our DSs were on the older end when graduating: one was 18.5, the other just-turned-19yo. It was absolutely not an issue anywhere, and it was absolutely the best for both of them (one has mild LDs, the other was a late bloomer physically/emotionally).

 

However, we didn't make the choices or any changes at middle school -- from kindergarten we saw their different delays, and waited to start both of them a bit later. As a result, I don't think either really knew or cared about ages/grades all the way through. I think having to make those choices in middle school or part way through high school to delay/repeat, or speed-up/push would be MUCH tougher and more stressful and emotional either way for the student.

 

Plus, they had  a LOT of their homeschooling peers (all boys) were also older graduates -- 19yo, or turned 19 in the 2 months after graduation -- because a lot of fellowhomeschoolers in our group had boys with academic delays or AD/H/D issues or LDs. Must have been something in the water here... ;) In all of those cases, the delay helped those young men progress at their unique pace, and to have a measure of success that they could not have had if they had been forced to work faster and at a higher level sooner than they were ready for. SOOO grateful for the flexibility that homeschooling allows for! :)

Edited December 3, 2016 by Lori D.

[Farrar]

We do have to declare, but they care so little about us that I'm sure we can do whatever we want, but... for people who say decide down the road... does that mean you're just making the transcript when you're ready? And... I don't see any reason why anyone would care, but just to double check, no one sees any problem with doing that - deciding at the start of what would be our junior year to go an extra year and relabel everything?

 

I think in the end, the early (or, not early as it's on time according to the law, but barely) graduation will be fine for my boys. But it's nice hear no one thinks that 9th grade means it must be decided.

[quark]

.

Edited December 4, 2016 by quark

[Lori D.]

We do have to declare, but they care so little about us that I'm sure we can do whatever we want, but... for people who say decide down the road... does that mean you're just making the transcript when you're ready? ...

 

Yes. While it's a lot easier on YOU the administrator to update the transcript (and course description document) at the end of each semester of high school, you don't *need* one until an outside party requests it. That will likely be:

 

- a high school, if your students participate on a high school sports team

- a special program that requires seeing grades/student level of work

- possible when enrolling in a dual enrollment/dual credit program

- college admission applications (it's part of the paperwork you're required to send in)

- scholarship applications

 

For example, DSs here played on the public high school tennis team starting in 9th grade, so starting in 9th I had to have a transcript for them -- and I was required to provide one every 4.5 weeks (quarter and mid-quarter grades), because that's the system all the high schools use to make sure athletes are keeping up their grades to maintain academic eligibility. However, if they had not played sports, the only other time I was required to provide a transcript was in 12th grade for enrolling in dual enrollment, and then as part of the admission paperwork to the university.

 

However, as Quark points out above, check your area's regulations, and the universities in your area that DSs might attend to make sure there aren't any extenuating circumstances or rules that require you to declare when entering high school.

 

One last consideration is that in many places, 9th grade is the "all or nothing" decision (as in will you homeschool all the way through, or switch to a local school), as many high schools do not accept homeschool credits/courses -- or even credits from a student transferring from another high school -- and require incoming students to start as 9th graders, even if this would be the student's 12th grade year. In essence, they refuse to accept any high school work done previously by the student, although some will accept the credit if the student passes the final exam for each and every credit on the transcript.

 

 

... just to double check, no one sees any problem with doing that - deciding at the start of what would be our junior year to go an extra year and relabel everything?

 

Who is going to see your transcript but you to know that you "right-sized" the student's grade level partway through high school? :) The only place that can get dicey is if participating on a high school's sports team -- you can still change the student's grade level, but the student only has 4 years of eligibility, not 5, if you shift the grade down a level.

 

Even the PSAT has a bit of flexibility for accommodating if your student gets into the 11th grade year and the family realizes the student is going to graduate a year early, so that the PSAT they took as an 11th grader is technically now after the fact a 12th grader.

 

 

...But it's nice hear no one thinks that 9th grade means it must be decided.

 

There are QUITE a few people on these boards who have had students "on the bubble", and they let time and seeing how the student is working decide whether it's "early graduation" / "at grade level" / or "bonus year" for high school.

Edited December 3, 2016 by Lori D.

[SparklyUnicorn]

It's been similarly confusing here.  The cut off is January 1st here.  My kid was born on January 21st.  So by age he is old for his grade level based on how they do it here.  To further complicate matters the homeschool regs follow a different time table.  There is no rule saying I have to declare him a specific grade level, but I did have to put down a grade level.  And then there is testing based on grade level.  So I always kept him at a lower grade on paper (only for the purposes of the regulations).  This past year I skipped him a grade on the paperwork.  Nobody in the district said anything.  

 

So basically I've been playing it by ear.  And even though I've had to list a grade level for the paperwork, it wasn't an issue to change it. 

[Guest]

One of my friends thought out of the box, and did a end of fall semester grad for his child. Bday was 2 weeks before dec 31st cutoff, was always old for grade, and he could not see a 19 year old benefitting from another semester. Took a gap year and a half, in which he worked and transitioned to adulthood..

[kiana]

Great idea to preserve options.

 

The thing that I'd be careful about is not planning on having a class that colleges often want to see only taught in the 8/9 grade. For example, if you do US history there and that's the only exposure, it could look like they never had it, and that's an iffy class to bring up from middle school. Be cognizant of that and aware that to make sure that something is included in the 4yrs prior to HS graduation, this may necessitate certain classes being taken during the second senior year if you go with the earlier placement -- for example, taking a DE US history class if the only one was done in what's now the 8th grade. 

[Barb_]

Great idea to preserve options.

 

The thing that I'd be careful about is not planning on having a class that colleges often want to see only taught in the 8/9 grade. For example, if you do US history there and that's the only exposure, it could look like they never had it, and that's an iffy class to bring up from middle school. Be cognizant of that and aware that to make sure that something is included in the 4yrs prior to HS graduation, this may necessitate certain classes being taken during the second senior year if you go with the earlier placement -- for example, taking a DE US history class if the only one was done in what's now the 8th grade.

Kiana that's a great point and one way to handle it.

 

I would still consider listing something like that as "9th grade" although it's likelier the class would be something like Math or Bio. Schools must list the class as taken in eighth grade because eighth grade classes are almost always transferred from an entirely different school.

 

We don't always start classes in September and finish in June. Some credits start in January and end the next December. Some credits are condensed and some are stretched over two years. Some are dual credit--high school and college. I see no reason why a class taken early can't be lumped in with 9th grade if it's a solid 9th grade level class and you need the credit on the transcript. Generally though, taking that extra year has left us with too many credits and we have to pick and choose the best ones. With the exception of Bio, those are almost always taken toward the end of the transcript.

 

We aren't institutions but we have to translate our kids' experience into a format an institution can understand. Don't worry about tying yourself in knots trying to plan work that fits neatly in little boxes. Starting high school is no reason to completely toss the lovely flexibility and depth and bunny trails we had at our disposal in elementary. Yes, we have to ramp up expectations and spend more hours in the day, but I believe there is room for both.

Edited December 4, 2016 by Barb_

[Soror]

Thanks to everyone for the thoughts, you all have given me some great info moving forward. I've been researching like crazy trying to wrap my head around expectations and how everything works but there is just so much info and in the end it is a somewhat personal choice.

 

Considering where we are at now and how he is progressing it seems that his work level will be on par with an average 9th grader on the earlier timetable but who knows, things might change. Of course, another challenge in figuring all of this out has been parsing out what exactly is 9th grade level as so much of that seems to be subjective looking at the wide variety on these boards. Math seems to be the most well-defined and he is easily on track to be ready for Algebra by then if I wanted to I could push him ahead even sooner but I think he needs more practice and more maturity- besides the fact that he isn't a fast worker and we've got plenty of time, might as well make sure everything is solid.

 

 I've always considered him in-between grades and have been honest with him about the whys behind that. He likes to brag about his asynchronicity and he knows that has various strengths and weaknesses. I discussed the pros and cons of everything with him and the possible paths. I want to make sure it is an ongoing discussion however as it might well end up that adding a year on is the best choice and I want us to keep it on the table.

 

I have them start high school in order to graduate at 17 and then at the end if they don't feel ready, I just give them a super senior year and call the last four years high school. Does that make sense? So maybe if they graduate at 17 algebra one is the first math credit but if they graduate at 18 then it's geometry. I've done that for all of my summer and fall birthdays. One decided to go on time and two decided to take an extra year to mature

So, how did their Senior year end up looking for the ones that decided to take an extra year? Was it a hard decision for them OR were they happy to have the option to slow down before jumping into college?

 

We do have to declare, but they care so little about us that I'm sure we can do whatever we want, but... for people who say decide down the road... does that mean you're just making the transcript when you're ready? And... I don't see any reason why anyone would care, but just to double check, no one sees any problem with doing that - deciding at the start of what would be our junior year to go an extra year and relabel everything?

 

I think in the end, the early (or, not early as it's on time according to the law, but barely) graduation will be fine for my boys. But it's nice hear no one thinks that 9th grade means it must be decided.

I don't know how it will go in the end here. I have seen tremendous growth in the last year but the teenage years can be such a roller coaster. I think it will serve him best to keep in mind hs requirements as I think he will be ready for the work on the early end BUT whether or not that holds all the way through OR he might be better served from another year to mature I'm not sure. 

 

Something else to consider--graduating as Christmas. We've had several friends do that--some to move to full-time college and several to enlist. The only time I've seen a problem in moving a student is high school sports. In CO, the kids only get 4 years of eligibility, so you have to declare what is the 9th grade year. 

A friend mentioned this as an option the other day, I hadn't considered it but perhaps we should keep it in mind.

 

Great idea to preserve options.

 

The thing that I'd be careful about is not planning on having a class that colleges often want to see only taught in the 8/9 grade. For example, if you do US history there and that's the only exposure, it could look like they never had it, and that's an iffy class to bring up from middle school. Be cognizant of that and aware that to make sure that something is included in the 4yrs prior to HS graduation, this may necessitate certain classes being taken during the second senior year if you go with the earlier placement -- for example, taking a DE US history class if the only one was done in what's now the 8th grade. 

 

 

Kiana that's a great point and one way to handle it.

I would still consider listing something like that as "9th grade" although it's likelier the class would be something like Math or Bio. Schools must list the class as taken in eighth grade because eighth grade classes are almost always transferred from an entirely different school.

We don't always start classes in September and finish in June. Some credits are condensed and some are stretched over two years. Some are dual credit--high school and college. I see no reason why a class taken early can't be lumped in with 9th grade if it's a solid 9th grade level class and you need the credit on the transcript. Generally though, taking that extra year has left us with too many credits and we have to pick and choose the best ones. With the exception of Bio, those are almost always taken toward the end of the transcript.

We aren't institutions but we have to translate our kids' experience into a format an institution can understand. But don't worry about tying yourself in knots trying to plan work that fits neatly in little boxes.

Thank you for this information. I've been looking over requirements for various possible colleges and typical plans but I still don't have it all figured out.  From what I have read I didn't think Am. History was required for the 9th grade, just often done that way. I appreciate Barb's point as well about tweaking the transcript as needed to put required courses in the right time frame, assuming they were at hs level.

[wapiti]

I would try to avoid deciding until a grade needs to be declared, say for PSAT in 11th if this student might have NM-potential, with the schedule set up to leave all doors open.  

 

My two cents:  my guess would be that the most common cutoff nationally is Sept 1, though I wouldn't let that alone sway me toward to the earlier grade if he's ready for the later grade (I know multiple fall birthday kids who went off to college at 17).  If this is an average student, then maybe it makes sense to go ahead with 9th grade with an average 9th grade schedule.  On the other hand, if this student might be kinda 2e-ish (more disparate strengths and weaknesses) and might ultimately shoot for competitive colleges and/or a math-heavy program like engineering, perhaps consider the earlier grade/later graduation, both to build a stronger application and to allow time for more math, specifically for calc senior year (for purposes of foundation-building, whether or not the student would take the first year of calc over again at college).

 

I hope he enjoys AoPS Prealgebra, my favorite.  You are in one of the hardest chapters in the book (ch 2 and 5 are the hardest IMO).  He will get a great foundation.  If the rest of the book goes well, I would not go for a light algebra program first before a harder one - he would be more than ready for a standard or higher level of rigor for algebra 1 (for example, consider that he'd already know how to solve single-variable equations in great depth).

[Soror]

I would try to avoid deciding until a grade needs to be declared, say for PSAT in 11th if this student might have NM-potential, with the schedule set up to leave all doors open.  

 

My two cents:  my guess would be that the most common cutoff nationally is Sept 1, though I wouldn't let that alone sway me toward to the earlier grade if he's ready for the later grade (I know multiple fall birthday kids who went off to college at 17).  If this is an average student, then maybe it makes sense to go ahead with 9th grade with an average 9th grade schedule.  On the other hand, if this student might be kinda 2e-ish (more disparate strengths and weaknesses) and might ultimately shoot for competitive colleges and/or a math-heavy program like engineering, perhaps consider the earlier grade/later graduation, both to build a stronger application and to allow time for more math, specifically for calc senior year (for purposes of foundation-building, whether or not the student would take the first year of calc over again at college).

 

I hope he enjoys AoPS Prealgebra, my favorite.  You are in one of the hardest chapters in the book (ch 2 and 5 are the hardest IMO).  He will get a great foundation.  If the rest of the book goes well, I would not go for a light algebra program first before a harder one - he would be more than ready for a standard or higher level of rigor for algebra 1 (for example, consider that he'd already know how to solve single-variable equations in great depth).

I don't think he is quite 2E but along those lines. He is fairly avg- a bit above perhaps but nothing like I've seen on here. I cannot foresee him shooting for competitive colleges at all, he is not a genius or super driven and we don't have the funds to send him(and he isn't the kind of student I can foresee winning a full ride). He is bright but laid back. I believe he will be interested in a STEM career but will likely shoot for the state school that is science and technology focused. I know they require 4 years of Math(instead of 3 listed at some I looked at) so he will certainly have 4 yrs, with the younger plan I believe he should make it through pre-Calc (but I'm not an expert on all of this yet)

 

Thanks for your thoughts on math. He doesn't love AoPS but he seems to do better with programs like BA/JA/AoPS. We are half-way through Chp. 2 now, I've been holding my breath since this chapter has such a reputation. He seems to be doing ok, I just finished going through it myself as a refresher and I think/hope he will be able to finish the rest of the Chapter without too much issue. I've been orally quizzing him for extra practice to really hammer it home. We are on track to finish it next week and I'll sure be happy to have it under our belts.

 

I know that technically he should be ready to move onto Algebra after we finish pre-A but I also know that it helps him to have some familiarity with a topic before digging so deep. I guess we will see when we get there. I mean, AoPS pre-A could end up being a bad fit at some point so it is hard to plan that far ahead- I still have Jacobs ad Arbor School books on my potential lists. I'm keeping our plan open. Since he is a slower worker but does better with a more challenging program I need to give him plenty of time to make it successful.

Edited December 4, 2016 by soror