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[alexandramarie]

As I thought clearly I realized I do like the Alveary and my husband has advised me to stick with it for a few years.  If all I have to tweak is the math program and add some more phonics, then it is worth sticking with.  I have realized that no matter what homeschooling will take work and nothing will be perfect.

-alexandra

Edited November 30, 2016 by alexandramarie

[Guest]

With your oldest being six, even if you don't take the line that cm is neoclassical like the rest of what you listed, your days are not going to look very different. Iow, a six year old in a "purely" cm home would be doing the same stuff as a kid in a classical home.

 

You're getting tripped up on the label. Try to resist that. Do what works for you and your children. If that's rod and staff, just do it, it's a thorough program. If that's picture cards, just do it, it can't hurt.

 

And read the rest of cm's books if you're interested in educating the east cm taught teachers to educate!

 

Eta--and stop spending money on curricula for itty bitty Little kids! Books, yes. Curricula, no, unless YOU love it and must have it. In that case, buy it, read it, and whether you love it or not, understand that you are in no way whatsoever beholden to it! It's your book and you can set it on fire if you're so inclined; it holds no sway in your life. You're the boss, not your curricular approach to academics.

Edited November 27, 2016 by OKBud

[HomeAgain]

I think I would take a minute and just look at things objectively. 

 

Why is 10 minutes a day for reading not enough?  Make small changes, add subjects slowly.  If your child is struggling with reading still it's not the time to add Latin, grammar, or spelling.  These things wait.  3rd and 4th are good times to start focusing more heavily on extending language arts.

 

I make an excel spreadsheet of possibilities for the next year (and indeed further than that), tweaking as we go along.  I never know exactly what my child will be ready for, but having it down on paper is very helpful for me to begin the research and planning time.

[alexandramarie]

With your oldest being six, even if you don't take the line that cm is neoclassical like the rest of what you listed, your days are not going to look very different. Iow, a six year old in a "purely" cm home would be doing the same stuff as a kid in a classical home.

 

You're getting tripped up on the label. Try to resist that. Do what works for you and your children. If that's rod and staff, just do it, it's a thorough program. If that's picture cards, just do it, it can't hurt.

 

And read the rest of cm's books if you're interested in educating the east cm taught teachers to educate!

You are right about the Labels.  I know no matter what I want to include living books, picture study, poetry, nature study ect.  I guess my biggest thing is adding a more formal approach to reading and spelling.  I would like to find something that just gets the job done and is affordable.  My other change is wanting to start Latin in second grade.  My last big decision is deciding between rod and staff and Singapore math. I would like to just stick with a math program; I know Right Start will not work for the long run, especially with multiple children.

[alexandramarie]

For Christmas I asked for Cindy Rollins Mere Motherhood book and Teaching from Rest.  Very excited to read both, hoping they shed some light and perspective.... Also right before my son turned 6 we finished The Reading Lesson, I  then thought him reading aloud for 10 minutes a day and copywork would be enough.  He could sound out almost everyword, but now he forgets a lot of his phonograms as he is reading. This year as I am following the Charlotte Mason approach, there is not a stong emphasis on phonics.  So I guess I am looking for something that would help review the phonograms for reading and spelling as he continues to practice reading aloud.  I started First Start Reading with my almost five year old because she had already taught herself how to sound out CVC words and would try to write.  Her handwriting and spelling were horrible, so I think First Start Reading would help; I realized this was not CM's method, and then I realized that the CM way for LA was not working for us.

Edited November 27, 2016 by alexandramarie

[HomeAgain]

There are some compromises in there that you could make easily without spending more.

 

As my son got toward the end of phonics instruction I made up phonogram cards - red/blue vowels/consonants a la Montessori on index cards.  If I noticed him having particular trouble remembering one we'd pull out the card and do a quick review before diving into reading practice for the day.  I'm with you, I don't like the CM approach to beginning reading instruction (I don't like the classical way, either, with emphasis on learning the alphabet first).  It is very....gentle.  But that's when I amend things to fit *our* house.  It doesn't matter what we call it, only that it fits.

 

You can maintain a blend of many different styles, eventually coming up with your own.  For my son's main spelling instruction we use Dictation Day By Day, a free ebook where you just read the sentences, correct the written work, and move on to the rest of your day.  The words review themselves constantly (the 2nd grade book goes through most of the Dolch words along with a few others).  SCM's series, Spelling Wisdom, does similar but starts in third grade, has less review, and encourages more time on each passage.  We tried to introduce spelling at age 5 but had to put it on the back burner.  Age 5 was all about learning to form letters and words.  We spent 5 minutes a day at first, patiently and slowly going over a small piece of work, but it paid off.  By age 6 he had beautiful handwriting. And the extra time he had to mature helped immensely with the rest of language arts.

 

I'm a checklist type person.  My solution is usually to isolate the problem and then come up with a list of ways to solve it.  Goodness knows in the past 10 years I've thrown away enough money on pre-made solutions.  Now I try to tweak as much as possible.

 

You made a list of vague problems:

Right Start isn't working (why, and why did you gravitate toward it?)
There isn't enough phonics instruction

Handwriting is bad

 

 

Dig a little more.  Tweak what you need to and find your teaching groove before gravitating to something that promises to solve it all.

[alexandramarie]

 

You made a list of vague problems:

Right Start isn't working (why, and why did you gravitate toward it?)

There isn't enough phonics instruction

Handwriting is bad

 

 

Dig a little more.  Tweak what you need to and find your teaching groove before gravitating to something that promises to solve it all.

I am beyond thankful for you taking time to help me think a little more clearly about this.  I am not expecting you to reply, but it helps talking this through.  

+Right Start does work but is very time consuming and teacher intensive, I can sometimes spend 30 minutes and not finish a whole lesson because so many manipulatives are involved.  I could not imagine doing this with multiple children.  SO I am looking for a straightforward math program.

 

+ Phonic-  Thinking that Reading Lessons THrough Literature may be a good solution and not too expensive or possibly Rod and Staff Phonics/  Would I then have him read to me again later in the day?

 

+ Handwriting- My 6.5 year olds handwriting is good.  My daughter who is almost 5 is bad because she just started trying to write on her own; I am now giving her printing instruction via First Start Reading (she is loving this!) 

Edited November 27, 2016 by alexandramarie

[HomeAgain]

I was going to quote, but it seems easier to put your words in bold. 
 

+Right Start does work but is very time consuming and teacher intensive, I can sometimes spend 30 minutes and not finish a whole lesson because so many manipulatives are involved.  I could not imagine doing this with multiple children.  SO I am looking for a straightforward math program.

I get it.  You might look at threads from prior years about Right Start.  I have not used it, but I have heard the intensity goes down as they get older.  I think it's like that with most math programs, though.  I did notice that the two you are mulling over, Singapore and R&S, are very different in their instruction methods.  More straightforward, but if the play aspect is what you gravitated toward with Right Start, will you be satisfied with a get-er-dun approach of R&S?  One of the other ladies here put this math curriculum selector together.  It doesn't have all the programs (we use MEP, and that's not listed) but it's great for figuring out what exactly you want and searching for those features. http://homeschool-curriculum-reviews.com/math-curriculum-selector/

 

+ Phonic-  Thinking that Reading Lessons THrough Literature may be a good solution and not too expensive or possibly Rod and Staff Phonics/  Would I then have him read to me again later in the day?

We used to do "at" and "below" - reading instruction at level, free reading/snuggle reading with books below instruction level.  That was usually at bedtime, when we just want our brains to relax some.  It helped foster the other skills necessary for a good reader - inflection, comprehension, fluency. And honestly, it is really delightful when they're beaming from ear to ear, sure that they know how to read each and every word.  We used 100 EZ lessons, so every Thursday after a certain point we'd do a lesson that we did 10 or 20 lessons back instead of moving forward.  A homeschooler's TBT, if you will. :lol: It was a little something to look forward to and build confidence.

 

+ Handwriting- My 6.5 year olds handwriting is good.  My daughter who is almost 5 is bad because she just started trying to write on her own; I am now giving her printing instruction via First Start Reading (she is loving this!)

Well, there you go!  We recently switched handwriting curriculum this year.  My son no longer appreciated my cobbled together/d'nealian approach (plus the books I had were too difficult for him to keep up with) and picked out a practice book.  He's happy, I'm happy.  It's one I wouldn't have considered but I'm not going to knock it as long as he's writing well!

 

[Hunter]

Samuel Blumenfeld died about a year ago, and all his books were made available for free.

http://blumenfeld.campconstitution.net/Tutor.htm

 

You might like Alpha-Phonics. If you look to buy a hard copy, make sure you get a REVISED edition that is not the italic original version that is usually sold to homeschoolers.

 

In the book How to Tutor is some really good arithmetic advice and lessons. You can supplement it with free Ray's Arithmetic and other free vintage math. I think it has been 5 years now since I first read the How to Tutor Arithmetic and i never again felt the need to purchase any of the expensive time-consuming math curricula.

 

Don Potter wrote some supplements for Alpha-phonics. I use the phonogram chart and make my own flash cards.

http://www.donpotter.net/reading_clinic.html

 

The Don Potter handwriting for Alpha-Phonics is awesome, but I use the instructions from Spalding's Writing Road to Reading 6th edition. You should be able to get it from the library and photocopy the handwriting instructions. I was tutoring a lot of left handed dyslexics and Spalding was just so much better for THEM than Don Potter. But Don Potter is awesome for righties without LDs.

 

There is a document in the link of my signature. The second page is a math scope and sequence only using free math resources. It is a bit "behind" by most people standards, so beware of that. I have strong opinions about developmental readiness of math, and I made my chart for me. But it is a place to START for someone on a strict budget wanting to combine free stuff.

 

For grammar, see if you can find Ruth Beechick's The Three R's at the library. Also check the library for The Well Trained Mind 4th edition and/or the Writing with Ease teacher manual. If you can't get any of those we can link you to some decent free vintage grammars.

[Hunter]

Does your library use the Overdrive catalog for eBooks? Overdrive has Writing with Ease.

 

Most states allow all residents to apply for a library card at the library in the capital city, and most capital city libraries have a vast Overdrive library that can be downloaded from home.

 

The Writing with Ease TM and Ruth Beechick's Three Rs allow you to teach language arts along side almost any education style. So you can switch from reading list to reading list until you find your groove, and not get off track with the skills.

[8filltheheart]

So this year I decided to participate in The Charlotte Mason Institute pilot program. I had read two of CM's volumes and was convinced this was the kind of education for our family.  After four  months of practice I am not so sure; mostly because there are so many things and I feel 10 minutes a day for reading instruction is just not enough.  I read the Latin Center Curriculum and that really  resoanted with me.  I currently have four children 6 and under.  I really like the scope and sequence of Classical Academic Press and would love to make our eventual goal to do Omnibus.  The biggest thing is that I realize I want formal spelling, writing and grammar.  I can not switch this year because I have spent too much money.  I also realize I want a curriculum that gets things done.  I was thinking of using rod and staff for grammar, spelling, and phonics practice, and possibly math.  I would then add Latin and veritas press history cycle.  I was thinking of skipping the rod and staff reading portion and just have my children read aloud.  My other option was to do English Lessons through Literature, Reading Lessons through Literature and Singapore math. My head is spinning.  Please help.  I am planning for a 2nd grader, first grader, and will add something for my son who will be 4 ( I was thinking of Simply Classical B).  O yes, and then Memoria press is always an option, but I feel that I will feel trapped and not be able to plan my own things.  I would also add Simply Charlotte Mason Picture Study and possibly one of their sceince courses.  I am just done researching.  I want to stick with a math program.  We are currently using Right Start, but it is too time consuming and driving me a little crazy.

Thank you in advanced.

 

I had typed out a long post and then my computer froze and I had to shut it down.  :(  So here is the digest version.

 

Your post oozes with the contemplations of loving mother who wants to provide the best education for her children.  But it also highlights how overwhelming it can be when we try to force real education taking place in an active family life to conform to labels and categories (and categories that leave a lot to be desired as having any sort of agreed upon definition.  Classical means a lot of different things to different people.  I'm pretty sure that my definition of classical doesn't fit the definition of most posters on the WTM.  :) )  More importantly, I think labeling ourselves and focusing on a category overemphasizes curriculum and underplays pedagogy (the art of teaching).  Pedagogy is where my heart lies and why I love homeschooling. Pedagogy means I can be the teacher I want my children to have to help them learn and think the way that I know they are capable of doing.

 

K2 is time heavy and teacher dependent b/c by their very nature, young kids need a lot of direct teacher involvement.  The skills they are mastering at those ages are the foundation for all upper level learning.  

 

I wouldn't get hung up on amt of time spent.  I would instead focus on what is accomplished.  10 mins, 15 mins, 20 mins....the clock should never be the objective.  Academic learning is accomplished over 13 yrs and it really doesn't take much time when they are little.  

 

(My Kers spend about an hr on academics.  1st grade....maybe 90 mins.  They spend the vast majority of their day in imaginative play (my top priority for my young kids b/c I think it is what develops higher order critical thinking skills vs. seat work.)  They spend about an hour per day per grade level on academics until middle school.  Middle school is 6-8 hours and high school is about 7-9 hours (depends on the child and the load they have opted to take.)  But the long view is that my 1 hr Kers do academically succeed when they are older.)

 

But, I digress.  I wanted to ask you if you knew Latin.  If you don't, before you commit to starting Latin in 2nd grade, study Latin yourself.  I know a lot of homeschoolers are advocates of Latin young, but I am not one of them.  I think if parents were well versed in Latin themselves, they probably wouldn't be either.  Latin is vey grammar heavy and the progress made when they are young is snail paced vs. what can be mastered at an older age.  You could spend 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th studying what could equally be mastered in 5th alone.  A lot of 2nd graders are still struggling with mastering reading and simple writing in English.  Compare adding Latin then to adding Latin when they have already mastered how to read, how to form letters, how to write simple thoughts (K2 skills), how to learn from what they are reading, how to express the ideas of what they are reading in writing (3rd/4th skills).  5th graders have mastered the basics of learning how to learn.  Adding Latin at that point is a much easier skill for them to tackle and master.

 

Instead of deciding on a philosophy right now, why not read and let ideas perculate and process the ideas why you learn how the litte people in front of you learn.  What are their individual learning abilities?  How do you as teacher interact with them in a way that makes them eager learners? There are huge leaps in development around 3rd or 4th and then again around 6th and then again around 8th.  The child that you see at the beginning of 9th will be a far different person in 12th.  They have all those years to become the educated adult you want them to be (and you have all of those years to learn alongside them....learning subjects and methodology as you find what works for your family.)

 

If they learn better via CM, classical, traditional, unschooling, hands-on projects, or a mishmash of any the numerous approaches educational approaches that exist....that is the best educational philosophy to embrace.  The one that reaches each individual child.  It doesn't even have to have a name. :)

 

(And FWIW, I don't classify myself as a CM educator, but a lot can be taught through copywork and you can't get any cheaper than creating your own copywork assignments that focus on the skills you want mastered.)

 

Best wishes to you as you navigate the homeschooling waters.

[Guest]

This is a great time to plug the wee little Bonnie Landry booklets!

[SevenDaisies]

Memoria Press is far more flexible than it appears to be. You can customize packages on the website and if the website doesn't offer enough customization you can call and they will customize further. I started with CM aspirations, but in 4th grade my oldest used a couple of things from MP and we loved them. In 5th we ordered a customized package because it was only slightly more to get the package than to buy the items I wanted individually. I wasn't planning to use their science, but was quite surprised at how much I liked them (specifically the ones written in-house). I sometimes use the MP lesson plans as a guide to aid in my planning, but do not use them as they are written. I have chosen the parts of MP I like, and continue to use other items as I see fit. I in no way feel trapped by MP. I am getting what I wanted in an unexpected format that works very well for us.

[EndOfOrdinary]

They are going to forget things. My 12 year old wrote every "I" lower case in his last, quick, personal narrative. When I asked him what might possibly be frustrating me about his composition, he took it back, reviewed it, and then put in a semi-colon, two introductory phrases and a stronger conclusion. All the "i"s stayed the same. 😳

 

When it came back out two days later, we both laughed about it. He saw the i's right away. Such situations are now very funny to me.

 

Over the years your kiddos will start to focus so hard on learning something new, that the old stuff seems to de-materialize. It is still in there somewhere. Gentle reminding and it will come back. Don't throw everything out, even if it is the first instinct. I still have a hard time with 8x4. I want to say 34 everytime. My entire math education is not faulty.

 

Pour a glass of wine, grab a bag of M&M's, and find what you like and what you don't think is cutting it for each subject. More than likely, it is a mixed bag with most every curriculum. If we found one subject a year we wanted to keep, I considered it victory!

[Bluegoat]

It's been a long time since I've read the LCC, but doesn't it start kids a little older?  It's approach seems to me to be better suited to kids at 8+ rather than younger learners.

 

I am wondering about why you've decided you want longer lessons, more spelling, and Latin at this point?  The CM approach of 10 min isn't arbitrary, it's meant to be about the amount of time kids that young can really focus and remain interested.  Which means, you can have longer lessons if your kids can focus that longer.  Just remember to quit while you're ahead rather than once they are tired and bored.  If they can't focus longer, longer lessons, IMO, are unlikely to help.

 

I also think spelling is not generally useful until a child is reading easily.  And I would not teach Latin at grade 2, I think it is  a waste - I would teach a modern language, and save Latin to introduce with grammar.  Latin at a young age tends to be things like Song School Latin, which are pretty slim on content.  I did three years of Latin in university, so I have some ability to compare learning it to a modern language.  Even my European professors who learned Latin as kids and were fluently multi-lingual didn't start with it as their first second language.

 

I don't think it would hurt to review phonics in addition to reading practice, if you think it would help.  I'd be cheap though and just find some free internet resources or a cheap workbook at someplace like Staples.  (And, I don't think doing this is "not-CM.) It isn't odd for a kid to forget and have to be reminded while reading, though, and there is nothing wrong with reviewing as it comes up.  For many people, they remember better that way, and even if your kids don't, its good to do the reading as well as the formal work, as the latter can be rather dry.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Bluegoat

[alexandramarie]

Thank you ladies for all you advice.  Everyone has given me a lot to consider.  I took this all to prayer and feel like I am thinking clearly.   I do think I will delay Latin.  I also want to stop focusing so much on a particular homeschooling label and do what works for our family and each child.

-Alexandra

Edited November 28, 2016 by alexandramarie

[Ausmumof3]

you have a lot of good stuff here already. Charlotte mason and classical and really that different in early years anyway, just there is an emphasis on outdoor time and nature study time. Most of the Charlotte Mason works focus a lot on parenting as well as education so they can be incorporated alongside a more classical education.

 

For phonics review I just go over anything that tripped them up when they were reading aloud to me, once I've been through the basic sounds. And honestly no 5 year olds handwriting or spelling are terrible - the fact that a five year old is working on handwriting and spelling at all is great. I find once mine start working independently they move toward conventional spelling quite quickly. It doesn't mean that we don't do spelling but there's a big change anyway.

 

Lastly, don't stress about being stressed, I honestly think we all go overboard with planning and curriculum in the early years and it's way better to do that that not care at all. Over a period of time (and with lots of good advice from here) you will find the balance that works well for your family and keeps everyone moving along without being too stressful or chaotic.

[Bluegoat]

Yes to the above about handwriting.  Some kids are ready for this only later, or they can only manage a tiny amount.  With my son in particular, who is 6, we do very little, and work on other ways to build up his fine motor skills.