Not pleased--DE Precalc instructor Update: Unbelievable post 1

[Lawana]

Ds is dual enrolled in Precalc at the local 4yr university. He just texted me that his class was cancelled with no notice. This is an 8:00 class for which he leaves the house at 7:15. I get that illness and emergencies come up, but this is the fifth! class that the instructor has missed so far this semester. Two of those days were a planned vacation trip. I find this completely unacceptable, especially for a math class!

 

This is just a rant. Nothing will be done about it. Ds is doing very well in the class, just mad.

 

**Update**

Class canceled again today for the reason, stated by instructor, that she doesn't want to come in the day before Thanksgiving break. As of now, there is no email to students with video link. Ds doesn't remember if she talked about a video or not.

 

I talked to ds before this latest cancelation about reporting the situation himself, even though I had decided to do it, but reconsidered because this is college. He was unwilling to do so because 1, he didn't care that much about loss of instruction time since this is essentially a repeat class, and 2, he hadn't kept track of which days were missed and felt it would be a weak argument without the dates to back him up.

 

After this latest, I will strongly encourage him to talk with other students and see if they as a group will report. The overwhelming majority of students are regular college students. He knows of only himself and one other that are DE.

Edited November 18, 2016 by Lawana

[Code Lyoko]

Well, that totally stinks.  Sending sympathy vibes your way.  How does your son find the professor overall?  Does he feel he is learning well in this class?  (Not the grade so much as the understanding of the material)

[Lawana]

Well, that totally stinks. Sending sympathy vibes your way. How does your son find the professor overall? Does he feel he is learning well in this class? (Not the grade so much as the understanding of the material)

Thanks for the sympathy:)

 

Ds doesn't think the instructor explains the material very well and makes frequent errors. Overall, not impressed. He actually had Precalc at the high school last year with an uninspiring teacher who didn't cover the topics in much depth, so we opted to have him take it again at the college and does feel he is getting a bit more depth this time around. He says there are many students in the class that aren't doing very well, but I know that is common for math classes at a university not known for technical degrees.

 

I bought the Art of Problem Solving Precalc book hoping he would take it upon himself to deepen his understanding, but I guess that is asking a bit much from a kid who is taking three DE classes, two AP classes, and also plays football.

[Code Lyoko]

Thanks for the sympathy:)

 

Ds doesn't think the instructor explains the material very well and makes frequent errors. Overall, not impressed. He actually had Precalc at the high school last year with an uninspiring teacher who didn't cover the topics in much depth, so we opted to have him take it again at the college and does feel he is getting a bit more depth this time around. He says there are many students in the class that aren't doing very well, but I know that is common for math classes at a university not known for technical degrees.

 

I bought the Art of Problem Solving Precalc book hoping he would take it upon himself to deepen his understanding, but I guess that is asking a bit much from a kid who is taking three DE classes, two AP classes, and also plays football.

:laugh:   Well, you never know.  Maybe on a particularly inspiring day when his schedule is relatively clear...?

 

As for the other, dang that's frustrating.  Prof doesn't show up consistently AND isn't that great an instructor.  I had some flaky professors but the only prof I know who had trouble showing up to class actually ended up abandoning his wife and kids to run off with a student.  They had to cancel my class.  No professor to take it over.   :cursing:

 

Anyway, I hope in the end your son at least gains a greater understanding of the math.  Best wishes.

[G5052]

That's not good. 

 

When I was teaching face-to-face and hybrid classes as an adjunct, I always had to notify my dean's office with a person-to-person phone call if I cancelled. The office there opens at 7am. Then if I missed more than two classes, I had to meet with my dean. I know of several adjuncts who were not renewed for too many absences. Of course cancelling an earlier morning class is always tough on the students. I always taught in the evening, and only once I had to cancel an hour before (I was in the ER).

 

Frankly I would call the Dean of Students or Dean of Student Success or whoever it is and report this. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

That stinks!

 

I'd be mad too.  I have an 8 am class and I would not be amused to keep showing up there for nothing.

 

 

[Lawana]

:laugh: Well, you never know. Maybe on a particularly inspiring day when his schedule is relatively clear...?

 

As for the other, dang that's frustrating. Prof doesn't show up consistently AND isn't that great an instructor. I had some flaky professors but the only prof I know who had trouble showing up to class actually ended up abandoning his wife and kids to run off with a student. They had to cancel my class. No professor to take it over. :cursing:

 

Anyway, I hope in the end your son at least gains a greater understanding of the math. Best wishes.

That is nuts about your prof! I hope they reimbursed your tuition!

[Lawana]

That's not good.

 

When I was teaching face-to-face and hybrid classes as an adjunct, I always had to notify my dean's office with a person-to-person phone call if I cancelled. The office there opens at 7am. Then if I missed more than two classes, I had to meet with my dean. I know of several adjuncts who were not renewed for too many absences. Of course cancelling an earlier morning class is always tough on the students. I always taught in the evening, and only once I had to cancel an hour before (I was in the ER).

 

Frankly I would call the Dean of Students or Dean of Student Success or whoever it is and report this.

Thanks for your input. I will consider calling.

 

I just don't remember professors' attendance ever being an issue, particularly in a math class where consistent instruction time is so critical. Sure, an illness here and there, or a professional conference once in a while, but nothing like this.

[G5052]

Thanks for your input. I will consider calling.

 

I just don't remember professors' attendance ever being an issue, particularly in a math class where consistent instruction time is so critical. Sure, an illness here and there, or a professional conference once in a while, but nothing like this.

 

Different situation, but my oldest is in a weight training class with a professor that is a yo-yo. She's disorganized and over and over has promoted unsafe practices in the gym and weight room. DS works there and told the owner what kind of things he was observing, and the owner went to the Dean of Student Success over the safety issues. And indeed, the professor was called into to see the Dean of Instruction and will not be renewed next semester over the safety issues. This professor actually ranted to the class that she was not being renewed!

 

They won't know unless someone tells them.

[regentrude]

That is not acceptable. The students need to inform the department. We cannot simply cancel class without offering the instruction in a different way - have a substitute teacher, provide online lectures, schedule a makeup. Students are entitled to receive the instruction for which they paid. I am extremely surprised that this institution lets the instructor get away with this. Normally, for any trip (even professional conferences) or non-emergency absence, we need to file a form with the department that details how the missed class will be covered. You can't just not show up for work.

Edited November 11, 2016 by regentrude

[Lawana]

Different situation, but my oldest is in a weight training class with a professor that is a yo-yo. She's disorganized and over and over has promoted unsafe practices in the gym and weight room. DS works there and told the owner what kind of things he was observing, and the owner went to the Dean of Student Success over the safety issues. And indeed, the professor was called into to see the Dean of Instruction and will not be renewed next semester over the safety issues. This professor actually ranted to the class that she was not being renewed!

 

They won't know unless someone tells them.

You're right. I will call.

 

Have you ever known a prof to schedule a vacation during a term? Like an out of state ski trip?

[Lawana]

That is not acceptable. The students need to inform the department. We cannot simply cancel class without offering the instruction in a different way - have a substitute teacher, provide online lectures, schedule a makeup. Students are entitled to receive the instruction for which they paid. I am extremely surprised that this institution lets the instructor get away with this. Normally, for any trip (even professional conferences) or non-emergency absence, we need to file a form with the department that details how the missed class will be covered. You can't just not show up for work.

Thank you. Now that you mention it, she may have referred the students to some videos during the vacation. I will have to ask ds.

[regentrude]

Thank you. Now that you mention it, she may have referred the students to some videos during the vacation. I will have to ask ds.

 

That would be an acceptable way to cover an absence.

I had to be absent for several classes, and I prepared video lectures for my class that covered exactly what I would have covered live in class. I restructured the schedule so that the assignments would be comparatively easy and that we would have time for problem solving and discussion in the classes after I returned. The students received the same instructional content, just delivered through a different channel. There were no complaints.

[kiana]

+1 for you need to complain. My school would be horrified. 

 

If she'd been in an accident on the way there, that would be one thing, but this much vacation? Inexcusable. 

[Bootsie]

You're right. I will call.

 

Have you ever known a prof to schedule a vacation during a term? Like an out of state ski trip?

At any university where I have taught, professors have zero vacation leave. It is a profession in which you have a great degree of flexibility with your schedule in some ways (I am taking out time of my day to run a few errands and write this, but I will be up late Sunday evening grading papers), but in other ways there no flexibility.  Vacations, as well as doctor and dentist appointments, should be scheduled around class meeting times.  Sometimes a professional meeting will occur (and sometimes in what is a vacation location), but most professors I know try to minimize any absence even in those situations or provide alternative assignments (or videos) for students for that class time. 

 

That said, my son took a DE class last year and I was horrified at how much the professor cancelled class.  Apparently her mother was very ill and there was a death in her family.  I think she also got sick--It was so much that I thought the department chair was remiss for not getting someone else to step in if there were such serious issues in the professor's life.  If I had been a parent paying for the class, I would have been furious. 

[regentrude]

That said, my son took a DE class last year and I was horrified at how much the professor cancelled class.  Apparently her mother was very ill and there was a death in her family.  I think she also got sick--It was so much that I thought the department chair was remiss for not getting someone else to step in if there were such serious issues in the professor's life.  

 

It must be a dysfunctional department. In our department, if somebody cannot teach their class because they are attending a professional conference or are sick or have an emergency medical procedure, somebody else steps in and takes over their classes. We have a colleague who got seriously ill this semester and is out for many weeks; five of us have divided her sections among us and covering them for the duration without canceling a single class. 

Unless this is a highly specialized course where nobody else has the expertise (which is rare and most definitely not the case in introductory courses), class gets taught because we as a department are in this together. That's how things should be.

[The Girls' Mom]

My dd dropped her DE pre-cal class this semester and took a W because of the same thing.  The professor missed too many classes, and wasn't teaching the class well to boot.  It was impossible to learn.  She's re-taking it in the spring under a different professor.

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Is your college open today on Veteran's Day?  The one ds goes to isn't.  But his classes were taught with a 4 day week in mind.  He had his weekly "Friday" test yesterday on Thursday. 

[Bootsie]

It must be a dysfunctional department. In our department, if somebody cannot teach their class because they are attending a professional conference or are sick or have an emergency medical procedure, somebody else steps in and takes over their classes. We have a colleague who got seriously ill this semester and is out for many weeks; five of us have divided her sections among us and covering them for the duration without canceling a single class. 

Unless this is a highly specialized course where nobody else has the expertise (which is rare and most definitely not the case in introductory courses), class gets taught because we as a department are in this together. That's how things should be.

This occurred at the university where my husband teaches and it was freshman biology--so not a specialized course.  It is interesting having your own children take courses where you teach and you see what occurs at some other areas of campus.  DH talked to the department chair, not knowing if the department chair was aware of what was occurring.  The dept chair was not very concerned.  The course was being taught by an adjunct who wasn't tapped into the departmental network and it wasn't a course any majors were taking.  In this situation I think the department chair was more to blame than the course professor.

 

DH experience is more like what you describe and most departments on the campus seem to operate that way. 

[Lawana]

Is your college open today on Veteran's Day? The one ds goes to isn't. But his classes were taught with a 4 day week in mind. He had his weekly "Friday" test yesterday on Thursday.

Yes, his other two classes met. Ds says instructor sent word she had a migraine.

[Lawana]

Update in post 1

[kiana]

Whoa, today, Friday? You mean you guys get the whole week off and she's extending that even further?

 

I mean, we at other universities are trying to figure out ways to get our students not to do what this lummox is doing as an instructor. This is absolutely ridiculous. 

 

[Lawana]

Whoa, today, Friday? You mean you guys get the whole week off and she's extending that even further?

 

I mean, we at other universities are trying to figure out ways to get our students not to do what this lummox is doing as an instructor. This is absolutely ridiculous.

Yes, a whole week off. And yes, the university has an attendance policy for students that requires 90% attendance. Is that common? The three universities I attended back in the dark ages (70's and 80's) did not have attendance requirements for the whole university. Of course individual profs could institute their own.

[kiana]

Yes, a whole week off. And yes, the university has an attendance policy for students that requires 90% attendance. Is that common? The three universities I attended back in the dark ages (70's and 80's) did not have attendance requirements for the whole university. Of course individual profs could institute their own.

 

A product of the declining numbers of tuition-paying students and the push to grade universities on how well they retain students. I don't think we should have to have one -- I think it should be up to the student -- but that's the world we live in now. 

[regentrude]

Totally unacceptable. Now, some professors may cancel a Friday class, the students sure don't object - but the instruction must be made up, and there cannot be a pattern of cancelling classes.

[Bootsie]

​I agree that this is unacceptable.  Unfortunately, I have seen that college students are often slow to report this to the administration when it occurs (or even put it on end-of-the-semester evaluations).  It is often said, "College instruction is one of the few things that people pay for and then are happy when they don't receive it."  You are probably one of the few parents who actually realizes that classes aren't being met. 

[regentrude]

​I agree that this is unacceptable.  Unfortunately, I have seen that college students are often slow to report this to the administration when it occurs (or even put it on end-of-the-semester evaluations). 

 

 

The end of semester evaluation won't help address the problem, because the administration only sees the numbers, but the comments are only available to the instructor. Or is that different at other schools?

[Bootsie]

The end of semester evaluation won't help address the problem, because the administration only sees the numbers, but the comments are only available to the instructor. Or is that different at other schools?

I taught at a school that asked specific questions of "Professor meets class on a regular basis" and "Professor shows up for class on time" for which the administration got the numbers

  

Most places I have worked the department chair also saw individual comments

[regentrude]

I taught at a school that asked specific questions of "Professor meets class on a regular basis" and "Professor shows up for class on time" for which the administration got the numbers

  

Most places I have worked the department chair also saw individual comments

 

We have a question "instructor is prepared" that is one of the number answers and that chairs see. But as far as I know, my chair does not see the verbal comments.

[MarkT]

use Rate My Professor - this would be good info to share

[G5052]

The end of semester evaluation won't help address the problem, because the administration only sees the numbers, but the comments are only available to the instructor. Or is that different at other schools?

 

In the state community college system where I work, the administration sees everything. All absences must be reported to your dean's office, and adjuncts get only two per semester per course. It's a firing offense in the contract if you don't report an absence.

 

The CC's technically have Monday classes to make up for Labor Day. Locally, a lot of us would hold a "help" session because if no students came in the first 30 minutes of class we could leave, and it wouldn't count against our two absences. Others would out right cancel of course. Other than my last semester there where I knew I wasn't returning, I always held the "help" session. And no one ever came  :lol: .