ADD/ADHD = lazy?

[Χά�ων]

I am considered severely affected. After hours of testing my score was the highest it could be for ADHD.

 

Without medication, the mental energy I need to accomplish simple tasks without medication is exhausting. I have to preplan every step in my mind before I am able to start. I keep my house (mostly my kitchen, because I love to cook) organized to such an extreme that to others I look OCD (I am not). When someone else uses the kitchen and does not clean up after themselves, even just leaving dishes in the sink instead of unloading the clean dishwasher to put the dishes in, I am unable to function.

 

All that mental energy I put in to planning the exact order I would accomplish the task is out the window. I am already mentally exhausted from the planning work and do not have the energy or ability to change my plans. I cannot just do what needs to be done so I can accomplish what I started to do, I shut down and walk away and the task does not get done. Because I could not do what I needed to do I get upset with the person who did not clean up after themsel (the youngest member of my household is 12) and after repeated times of me asking and telling, it does not end well, I lose it. My ability to talk calmly (for the millionth time) to the person is gone due to how exhausted I am from planning. I am not a happy person and no one else is happy.

 

On meds, I am not exhausted. I can calmly talk to the person and tell them to get up and clean up their shit or if it is something not done by a person (looking at you cat...) I am able to just do the 2-3 needed steps and accomplish what I set out to do. The 15 minute tasks that I would work an hour to figure out how to do, I am able to just do.

 

The meds have risks, for me it is increased chance of sudden cardiac death. I take them because I am able to live instead of spending it planning how to do what I need to do. I am able to enjoy leisure activities because I have the mental energy to do more than the bare minimum.

 

This risk, plus being told for years that I "outgrew" ADHD at puberty and was just lazy kept me from seeking medication. I developed intense and probably extreme rituals that I had to follow exactly every time in order to manage my household at a basic level. I still missed events more often than not because I simply could not remember, even with alarms and emails and text message reminders.

 

I find any and all comparison between ADHD and laziness to be incredibly insulting. I spent hours working to do simple tasks others can accomplish in just a few minutes. I am anything but lazy.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I mean this kindly -- I don't think it is the "average reader of this forum". I read more rowdy forums. To me, it read as you saying it is ok to insult people and repeatedly use the excuse of saying something like "Well, too bad, I didn't mean to insult anyone." Sure, intent matters, but ultimately even if I don't * mean to* step on someone's toes or *mean to* elbow them, it doesn't change the fact that I hurt someone and could at least just say, "oops, sorry about that, will try not to do that again!" That said, I get you didn't mean any harm and it sounds like you really are trying.

 

If you've learned that just about everyone acts lazily or selfishly sometimes and since just about everyone does that then people with ADHD will, too, then that's good. It means you realize that you are human, and you are going to do things that are either lazy or selfish just like everyone else. If you have ADHD, then no amount of guilt, shame, or trying to fix laziness is going to work. So, I'd try to be more flexible in your thinking and continue to work on executive function skills regardless of whether or not you have ADHD.

 

I do hope you'll consider getting your kid documentation *if* there are truly symptoms because homeschooling and self-coaching are usually not enough if someone really has ADHD. I wasn't affected by it only at school. It matters on the road (you don't want distracted drivers who are naturally distracted by their own minds rather than cell phones and other things), it matters at work, it matters at home. I'm glad some parents who resisted the idea posted about how glad they are for the accommodations their kids now have in place. Those accommodations can be at the least, academics-saving. And I don't think it is too dramatic to say they can be life-saving in a way, too.

 

When I start new routines or planners or something to help out, I find the first couple of weeks go just terrific. Then there's a slump. If I can push through that, it might become habit. So I agree that you may either have to find something new to keep yourself engaged or expect a dip in improvement and attempt to stay with it. Best of luck to you!

 

Then again she obviously doesn't really want advice.  So why keep harping on her?  I'm sure after people have repeatedly told her these things she is aware.  I think this is the sort of thing she means by "unfriendly".  Now it may just come down to the fact there are so many people on this board and some people just repeat stuff that has been said because, understandably, they don't read everything.  But I do understand how this can be interpreted as unfriendly or even hostile. 

 

 

[Χά�ων]

Then again she obviously doesn't really want advice. So why keep harping on her? I'm sure after people have repeatedly told her these things she is aware. I think this is the sort of thing she means by "unfriendly". Now it may just come down to the fact there are so many people on this board and some people just repeat stuff that has been said because, understandably, they don't read everything. But I do understand how this can be interpreted as unfriendly or even hostile.

Because those of us who have ADD or ADHD have dealt with the misconception that ADD/ADHD = lazy and medication = drugged all our lives. There is enough science out there that to prove it is a real issue that the continuation of the lazy myth is incredibly insulting.

[Ellesmere]

Then again she obviously doesn't really want advice.  So why keep harping on her?  I'm sure after people have repeatedly told her these things she is aware.  I think this is the sort of thing she means by "unfriendly".  Now it may just come down to the fact there are so many people on this board and some people just repeat stuff that has been said because, understandably, they don't read everything.  But I do understand how this can be interpreted as unfriendly or even hostile. 

I am sorry I appeared to be "harping" on her. I started out the post specifically saying it was in the spirit of kindness, not sarcastically attacking her. I also was careful to say how her posts came across *to me* rather than accusing of her anything. She brought it up again. I think it would have been piling on if she hadn't brought it up and in fact, I had written a post yesterday but didn't bother with it since four or five people basically said the same thing and I didn't want to just pile on. I also specifically said I knew she hadn't meant to hurt or insult  

 

I am puzzled that the idea that she said she was done posting but still reading and then she talked about ways she is trying to improve = she doesn't really want advice. She said she found the discussion "supremely helpful". And clearly, others have chimed in saying they found info on here that was helpful so I thought again, maybe it would help them if they are questioning the idea of getting documentation or if they are struggling with keeping up with planners. So I figured it would be ok to let her know that yes, I had a friendly disagreement -- I don't think that this forum is unique -- but I am glad she was learning.

 

And I wanted to agree with okbud, show that indeed, more than one ADHD person has gone through that while starting new things, and so I posted the last bit to *sort of encourage her that whatever she is doing right now (to help get stuff done) might work at first but be aware that either something new or some way to push through boredom might be necessary. I thought it might help to know that *a lot* of people with ADHD or symptoms find that happens when trying new habits or routines.

 

It's something I wish someone had told me ten years ago. And I wished her the best of luck. Did that line sound sarcastic? 

 

I'll go back to just reading (not being sarcastic) unless you want to discuss this more, and that would be fine since I really was surprised that you were so negative towards my post. I didn't expect total agreement with it (I expected her strong disagreement on the first part of it at least) but I didn't realize it sounded so unfriendly and am definitely feeling less inclined to post anymore since no matter how much care I try to put into a post, it isn't enough and still comes across badly.

[Greta]

YES! It is very common in ADD ppl.....it's the innovation that helps you remember, not the thing itself. So if you start forgetting even with the planner, do something else. Set a phone alarm...when that stops, write it on a window with a dry erase marker....etc Something NEW is the ticket. Not any given strategy. My two cents is just accept that, and move on to the next thing (circling back later when the planner will feel new again) without guilt. It's no failing to use different strategies AS a strategy.

 

 

This tendency definitely describes me, and your advice to just go with it makes sense.  And yet, I'm stubborn.  I want the planner to work.  I need the planner to work!  I know that the planner works IF I work it.

 

I bought an Agendio in January of 2016.  The fact that it was so customizable appealed to the compulsive nerd in me.  It worked beautifully for the first few months of the year, and sporadically here and there other months of the year when I forced myself to use it fanatically.  When I didn't do that . . . well, that was when I'd completely space and forget to take the dog to her surgery appointment, for example.

 

I've read the advice to sit down with your planner or calendar first thing in the morning while you're drinking your coffee.  I'm sure that works beautifully for most people.  That does not work for someone like me who promptly forgets everything that is on the calendar within a few minutes of viewing it!  The planner works great for me if and only if I basically obsess over it:  it's like I have to attach myself to it, write down in it everything that pops into my head, view it repeatedly over and over and over throughout the day.

 

I've already bought another one for 2017, and I fine-tuned the formatting so that I think it will work better for me than the first one.  Plus, they are expensive (at least by my standards!) so the investment makes me determined to make it work!  :lol:  

 

I'm not even sure what my point was with this long rambling post.  Just "thinking out loud" I guess.   :blush:  I'd love to hear about strategies that have worked for other people.  I bought the audiobook of ADD-Friendly Ways to Organize Your Life, and I'm listening to that this week while I exercise and do chores.

[Greta]

 

When I start new routines or planners or something to help out, I find the first couple of weeks go just terrific. Then there's a slump. If I can push through that, it might become habit. So I agree that you may either have to find something new to keep yourself engaged or expect a dip in improvement and attempt to stay with it. Best of luck to you!

 

 

Ah, maybe there is hope for me and my planner!  :D

[Arcadia]

I've read the advice to sit down with your planner or calendar first thing in the morning while you're drinking your coffee. I'm sure that works beautifully for most people. That does not work for someone like me who promptly forgets everything that is on the calendar within a few minutes of viewing it!

I used to use a PDA as my digital planner, then switch to an iPod Touch as a PDA when it came out. Now I use my iPhone. The advantage over a paper planner is that I can set alarms. So if my kids have an activity at 1pm, I can key that into my phone's calender and set the alarm to an hour ahead so we leave our house on time.

[Greta]

I used to use a PDA as my digital planner, then switch to an iPod Touch as a PDA when it came out. Now I use my iPhone. The advantage over a paper planner is that I can set alarms. So if my kids have an activity at 1pm, I can key that into my phone's calender and set the alarm to an hour ahead so we leave our house on time.

 

 

That makes a lot of sense!  I don't have an iPhone, but a cheap Moto E.  Still, I'm sure there must be calendar apps I could use.  I will look into that.  For some reason I find paper planners more satisfying that electronic ones, but I know that's silly.  I need to use whatever works best.

[Code Lyoko]

That makes a lot of sense!  I don't have an iPhone, but a cheap Moto E.  Still, I'm sure there must be calendar apps I could use.  I will look into that.  For some reason I find paper planners more satisfying that electronic ones, but I know that's silly.  I need to use whatever works best.

I prefer paper planners, too.  But I needed the flexibility and changeability of an electronic planner.  

 

What I ended up using was Homeschool Planet so I can adjust on the fly and track a zillion different things through the one source but I print out our lists and plans for the day every evening for the next day, and I review the list when I get up each morning and throughout the day.  Every weekend the alarm on my phone goes off to remind me to review what is in the electronic planner for the next week to make sure that we have all our materials ready to go for the entire week and I put everything on my roll around library cart so I know where to find things.  The kids and I do better if we have a paper list in front of us to cross things off from.  We keep our lists on the kitchen table and try to review them at the top of every hour (alarm on the phone for that).

 

I have a zillion alarms on my phone.  If it is something that happens weekly the alarm is permanently set, including the hour in advance warning that something is coming up, the 20 minutes ahead of time warning that we need to start getting ready, the 5 minutes ahead of time warning that we have to go VERY SOON, and the LEAVE RIGHT NOW warning.  LOL.  

[ktgrok]

That makes a lot of sense!  I don't have an iPhone, but a cheap Moto E.  Still, I'm sure there must be calendar apps I could use.  I will look into that.  For some reason I find paper planners more satisfying that electronic ones, but I know that's silly.  I need to use whatever works best.

 

The only problem if, like me, you hear the alarm, think "oh good, I need to go soon", turn it off, then get distracted. Sigh. 

[Code Lyoko]

The only problem if, like me, you hear the alarm, think "oh good, I need to go soon", turn it off, then get distracted. Sigh. 

Yeah, me too.  Eventually I started realizing that not only do I get distracted and forget to get ready, I also tend to have a warped sense of the passage of time when I am doing other things.  I started having to put multiple alarms on my phone for every event.  If DD needs to be at a certain place at a certain time every week then I have an hour in advance alarm (labeled for prep for that event) then a 20 or 30 minute ahead of time alarm (depending on what needs to be done to get ready), and a 5 minute ahead of time alarm and a LEAVE THIS VERY MINUTE alarm so we aren't late.

 

To find out if someone has a mucked up sense of time passing is to test yourself to see how far off you are.  Start with testing yourself without external distractions.  Sit at a table with a stop watch, look at the time, then sip a cup of tea or whatever and let the stop watch run for what you think will be 10 seconds.  Check and see how close you are.  Do the same for 30 seconds and a minute and 5 minutes and 10 minutes (if you can sit sit that long...I have a hard time unless I am reading).  Write down your results each time.  Now repeat the experiment but do other things.  I found that by 10 minutes out, if I was doing other things, my sense of time was pretty off.  I would think it had been just 5 minutes and it might be 15.  Now that I know that, I can compensate with my phone alarms.

[Ellesmere]

Ah, maybe there is hope for me and my planner!   :D

Ok, I have to post and respond to this -- There is hope! But maybe budget for a new planner every few weeks? :lol: 

 

Since you said you wanted to hear what has worked for others -- well, I'm still working on finding the best way for me. I think it's a matter what okbud said -- that trying new strategies is a strategy.

 

I have to work with, not against myself. So while I was devoted to paper (Planner Pad and Plum Paper being among my um, many favorites), I never remembered to look at them after having a fantastic time designing and filling it out. But I believed paper was best. Once I got a smartphone and actually I caved into an app for remembering things. I tried Keep and other memo apps but again, I'd enter a list and forget it.

 

Now, for me, I finally let go of paper and something like Todoist or Remember the Milk or Wunderlist can be nice if you like to be able to type "bake cookies every Tuesday" or "match your socks daily" and have it automatically remember those things for you. (Yes, Keep and my calendar, and others have reminder functions but for some reason I always just ignored them. Something about Todoist's reminders work for my brain. So if one doesn't work then another might.)

 

Oh, I didn't totally give up on paper. Sometimes, writing it out even if I know I will lose the list feels like I'll be more likely to remember. Something about pen to paper feels so nice. But I learned NOT to rely on paper. Depends, though, on what works best for you.

 

The fewer steps for entering a task, the better or else -- someone posted it's like you have no muscle memory unless you constantly do something all the freaking time. I use my app all the time, all day and that's the only reason I can do it. Whether you stick to paper or use an app -- I agree, you have to stay attached and obsess over it. Hope the Agendio works for you!

 

[Greta]

I prefer paper planners, too.  But I needed the flexibility and changeability of an electronic planner.  

 

What I ended up using was Homeschool Planet so I can adjust on the fly and track a zillion different things through the one source but I print out our lists and plans for the day every evening for the next day, and I review the list when I get up each morning and throughout the day.  Every weekend the alarm on my phone goes off to remind me to review what is in the electronic planner for the next week to make sure that we have all our materials ready to go for the entire week and I put everything on my roll around library cart so I know where to find things.  The kids and I do better if we have a paper list in front of us to cross things off from.  We keep our lists on the kitchen table and try to review them at the top of every hour (alarm on the phone for that).

 

I have a zillion alarms on my phone.  If it is something that happens weekly the alarm is permanently set, including the hour in advance warning that something is coming up, the 20 minutes ahead of time warning that we need to start getting ready, the 5 minutes ahead of time warning that we have to go VERY SOON, and the LEAVE RIGHT NOW warning.  LOL.  

 

Thank you for sharing this!

 

The only problem if, like me, you hear the alarm, think "oh good, I need to go soon", turn it off, then get distracted. Sigh. 

 

Yep, it's like Code Lyoko described:  I would need a series of "countdown reminders" for it to work!

 

Ok, I have to post and respond to this -- There is hope! But maybe budget for a new planner every few weeks? :lol: 

 

 

 

 

:D  Yes, that's actually a great suggestion!

 

 

 

Since you said you wanted to hear what has worked for others -- well, I'm still working on finding the best way for me. I think it's a matter what okbud said -- that trying new strategies is a strategy.

I have to work with, not against myself. So while I was devoted to paper (Planner Pad and Plum Paper being among my um, many favorites), I never remembered to look at them after having a fantastic time designing and filling it out. But I believed paper was best. Once I got a smartphone and actually I caved into an app for remembering things. I tried Keep and other memo apps but again, I'd enter a list and forget it.

 

Now, for me, I finally let go of paper and something like Todoist or Remember the Milk or Wunderlist can be nice if you like to be able to type "bake cookies every Tuesday" or "match your socks daily" and have it automatically remember those things for you. (Yes, Keep and my calendar, and others have reminder functions but for some reason I always just ignored them. Something about Todoist's reminders work for my brain. So if one doesn't work then another might.)

 

 

Oh, I didn't totally give up on paper. Sometimes, writing it out even if I know I will lose the list feels like I'll be more likely to remember. Something about pen to paper feels so nice. But I learned NOT to rely on paper. Depends, though, on what works best for you.

 

 

The fewer steps for entering a task, the better or else -- someone posted it's like you have no muscle memory unless you constantly do something all the freaking time. I use my app all the time, all day and that's the only reason I can do it. Whether you stick to paper or use an app -- I agree, you have to stay attached and obsess over it. Hope the Agendio works for you!

 

 

Thank you for sharing all of this.  I do love experimenting with new things, so I'm going to start making a list of things I can try once I get into a slump with one method.  Now whether or not I'll be able to remember where I put the list when I need it, well that's another story!  Maybe I should just bookmark this thread instead.

 

 

ETA:  I just cannot get quotes to format correctly for some reason!

Edited November 7, 2016 by Greta

[Χά�ων]

The only problem if, like me, you hear the alarm, think "oh good, I need to go soon", turn it off, then get distracted. Sigh.

Snooze button. ETA: I set the alarms to have 5 minute snooze with 10 repeats. I only turn off the alarm when I am in my car on the way to the destination.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Χά�ων

[Χά�ων]

I have lost every paperplanner I have ever used. I use my phone, I am less likely to lose it and if I do I can call it and losten for the ring.

[lanalouwho]

I keep my paper planner open on the table at all times. Once every couple of months I try to set up an electronic system, but I forget to enter stuff. It's too many steps so I'll do it later and then forget. Or I set too many reminders and then my brain decides to ignore all of them.

My paper planner is far from perfect, but it plus a couple alarms seems to be the best combo for now.

 

Sent from my HTCD200LVW using Tapatalk

[heartlikealion]

I haven't read the whole thread. I know some people close to me that have ADD/ADHD and when it comes to certain areas in their lives, they are far from lazy. Very hard working at their jobs and some other things. But due to priorities and time management and possibly executive function skills, they may appear lazy in some areas. If this is an accurate word to describe them, I don't know. I'm still learning about ADD/ADHD.

 

I know for myself, I consider myself lazy in certain areas. I also consider myself easily discouraged and overwhelmed. I get so stressed by papers... mail and such. I don't know what to do with things. Keep this or throw that out. Then I haul around a purse full of receipts lol. I have so much anxiety associated with mail that I set it aside with intentions to deal with it later or have dh go through it and then forget or misplace it, etc. I don't like the idea of someone writing me off as purely lazy because of it.

 

I think lots of us are lazy and that may or may not be related to an ADD/ADHD diagnosis. I don't think I have ADD/ADHD but I do have time management issues.

[heartlikealion]

I have lost every paperplanner I have ever used. I use my phone, I am less likely to lose it and if I do I can call it and losten for the ring.

 

A friend mailed me her filofax planner. It is missing. I paid like $11 for the inserts and never got to use them!! This is not an ADD/ADHD thing, just a reflection of the state of my office lol.

 

[Greta]

I keep my paper planner open on the table at all times. Once every couple of months I try to set up an electronic system, but I forget to enter stuff. It's too many steps so I'll do it later and then forget. Or I set too many reminders and then my brain decides to ignore all of them.

My paper planner is far from perfect, but it plus a couple alarms seems to be the best combo for now.

 

Sent from my HTCD200LVW using Tapatalk

 

 

Yes, during those times when I've used mine most consistently and successfully, it was because I just left it sitting open on the dining room table all day.  That way I saw it every time I walked by, which was often, and it was easier to remember to use/check it.  I also do like the ease of just picking up the pencil and jotting down a reminder, versus fumbling around on the teensy little keyboard on my phone.  So maybe sticking with paper will work for me, but I can add in using the phone for important reminders like doctor's appointments and such.