Homeschooling as an option for High School

[Ravin]

We are in the process of moving, and with that came a conversation about schools.

 

Currently, DD says she wants to go to "regular" high school, and DH has said we "don't have the resources" to home school high school. He insists that all the colleges require x, y, and z "the same as AZ state high school graduation requirements" for admission, unless she wants to be in one remedial class after another before she gets to anything creditable.

 

1. Arizona state high school graduation requirements are something eyeroll-worthy, our schools overall suck. The high school where we just put an offer on a house sucks even in relation to the general Arizona school suckiness.

 

2. DD is NOT traditional college-bound. She has neither the interest nor aptitude for anything resembling competitive or even run-of-the mill bachelor's level college education. Her current aspirations are cosmetology school and, eventually, an AA in business entrepreneurship so that she can work for herself. These are reasonable goals.

 

3. The most important factor in looking at high school for DD is support given her LD in math and her MH and chronic illness diagnoses/struggles. I'm trying to keep her options open (not taking PS off the table, but trying to get her to look at the charter schools in the area (one looks promising), homeschooling, etc.

 

4. I'm an attorney and DH has a master's in English and is on his way to a PhD. I suspect his insisting we "lack resources" has more to do with not wanting to take it on than with our capabilities.

 

5. He specifically cited science courses such as Chemistry being required and that he doesn't think we can pull them off at home. I will concede that science has been a weak spot for us, but this is largely because it hasn't been a focus/interest and tends to get dropped off in favor of math, language arts, and music.

 

So, for those who have BTDT or are in the midst of it, what can you tell me to refute his insistence that homeschooling is off the table for high school?

Edited October 21, 2016 by Ravin

[Lori D.]

Just some general thoughts:

 

...Currently, DD says she wants to go to "regular" high school...

 

Well, JMO, but esp. at the high school level, this trumps everything. This is one of the biggest hurdles to get over before even considering academics, IMO. By high school you really need student buy-in to homeschool. And, a student really needs to start having input at the high school level, as this is the student's life and future here.

 

If the student really wants to go to school and will buck you if forced to stay at home, not much learning is going to happen. Plus the stress that puts on relationships can be very damaging for everyone. Being in high school could be the very thing that causes DD to push herself and thrive -- or not. So much depends on the school.

 

 

...DH has said we "don't have the resources" to home school high school...

4. I'm an attorney and DH has a master's in English and is on his way to a PhD. I suspect his insisting we "lack resources" has more to do with not wanting to take it on than with our capabilities.

 

If DH has been doing the bulk of the homeschooling, and doesn't want to do high school, that's another big hurdle to work through before even talking academics. While high school can be done much more independently so that not as much parent involvement is needed, you have to have a motivated student who is interested in being at home... and that brings you back to the first statement quoted above...

 

One consideration is that homeschooling high school often requires MORE time from the parent. That was the case for us. That increased amount of time came from the need for me having to read or at least skim the material in order to be able to discuss or tutor as needed -- the amount of material and the complexity of material really jumps up at high school, so it takes a fair amount of time to even just skim. I also had to schedule time for discussing everything (History, Literature, Science). And we had one student with mild LDs who needed close mentoring in several subjects. There is also time needed for more administrative activities such as record-keeping, making transcripts and course descriptions, researching what resources will best fit the student, researching for extracurriculars and opportunities to broaden the student's high school experience, etc.

 

One option for decreasing parent time while homeschooling would be to go with an all online school like Landry Academy or Oak Meadow, or self-paced/self-graded high school classes with a provider like Time 4 Learning, or a correspondence school, such as American School of Correspondence.

 

 

... DH ... insists that all the colleges require x, y, and z "the same as AZ state high school graduation requirements" for admission, unless she wants to be in one remedial class after another before she gets to anything creditable.

 

1. Arizona state high school graduation requirements are something eyeroll-worthy, our schools overall suck. The high school where we just put an offer on a house sucks even in relation to the general Arizona school suckiness.

 

I always encourage people to look at their state's requirements for graduation and compare them with college admission requirements, and when homeschooling high school, to blend those requirements to keep as many doors open as possible for high school. See here for the AZ State Board of Ed's list of required credits. To compare with other states, see this list by state of credits required for high school graduation. Just a super quick comparison, but I see AZ's requirements are very similar to most other states, and some states have less rigorous requirements -- Montana, New Hampshire, New Jersey, for example.

 

In looking at AZ's universities: comparing that list of required credits for AZ graduation does match up with college admission requirements (ASU, NAU, UA). 

 

So it looks like whether DD attends a high school or homeschools, as long as she accomplishes those requirements, no doors will be closed on her future. It looks like the big problem will be finding a solid way of accomplishing these credits.

 

 

2. DD is NOT traditional college-bound. She has neither the interest nor aptitude for anything resembling competitive or even run-of-the mill bachelor's level college education. Her current aspirations are cosmetology school and, eventually, an AA in business entrepreneurship so that she can work for herself. These are reasonable goals.

 

Either a brick and mortar high school or homeschooling would help DD achieve these goals.

 

A lot of community colleges offer vo-tech classes for high school students at certain high schools, or for homeschool students, and cosmetology is often one of those programs offered. In some states/areas these may be FREE! (Compared to the high cost of a private cosmetology school.)

 

Here's a list of AZ community colleges and vo-tech schools. Of the community colleges on that list, here are two that offer cosmetology: Eastern Arizona College and Pima Community College. Hopefully you will be moving into an area served by one of these community colleges.

 

A VERY important thing to consider: most cosmetology schools and trade schools REQUIRE either an accredited high school diploma or a GED from incoming students. If your student graduates from a public or charter high school, she will have the accredited diploma. If you homeschool high school, DD will likely either need to have done so through an accredited option that awards a diploma (such as American School of Correspondence), OR, she will have to take the GED, even if you award a homeschool diploma. Be aware that the GED was drastically overhauled starting Jan. 2014, and is now more difficult to pass, and comes with "levels". While that has not caused any problems to this point, there is the potential that make it more difficult for a GED holder to attend a university years down the line if universities decide to reject students who did not make the top two levels of passing the GED (the "college-ready" level, and the "college-ready-plus-credit" level).

 

 

3. The most important factor in looking at high school for DD is support given her LD in math and her MH and chronic illness diagnoses/struggles. I'm trying to keep her options open (not taking PS off the table, but trying to get her to look at the charter schools in the area (one looks promising), homeschooling, etc.

 

That is an important factor to consider. What helps in the way of tutoring or home study would the public high school provide when DD was ill or if she falls behind? In addition to charter schools, would a private school or a university-model school be an option? What about a public school charter/virtual school option? That would allow DD to go at her own pace, and which may provide teacher support for struggling students.

 

Homeschooling can be helpful for a student with health issues, to allow the student to work at their own pace; but the LDs can make that problematic if there is not an adult dedicated to putting a lot of hours in weekly to mentor the student and help the student work through the struggle subjects. And while there are a lot of great free video tutorials out there on math and science topics, that may not be enough help for a student with LDs. Hiring a tutor might be a possibility. Online classes may help due to teacher support, but may not work if the LDs and health issues prevent the student from keeping up with the class pace.

 

 

5. He specifically cited science courses such as Chemistry being required and that he doesn't think we can pull them off at home. I will concede that science has been a weak spot for us, but this is largely because it hasn't been a focus/interest and tends to get dropped off in favor of math, language arts, and music.

 

There are a lot of options for doing high school sciences at home:

- choose sciences that play to student's strengths and interests (ex: skip Chemistry and do Physical Science, Biology, Earth Science)

- watch "virtual" online labs rather than doing live labs at home

- choose materials that best fit the student's learning style

- join a homeschool co-op that offers the science labs as one of their class options

- do the science as an online class

- if allowed in your area, do just one class with the public school (science, in this case)

- hire a tutor to oversee the labs once every other week

 

Quite often, when you have invested money into something (i.e., paid for a class) you are MUCH more serious about getting it done. ;)

 

 

So, for those who have BTDT or are in the midst of it, what can you tell me to refute his insistence that homeschooling is off the table for high school?

 

Nothing you've mentioned here would lead me to believe that homeschooling is off the table. What I see is a lot of special considerations:

- DD's desire to go to a school

- DD's health and LD special needs

- DH's reservations about homeschooling high school (assuming he is the major overseer of the homeschooling)

- your time availability to make homeschooling happen

- quality of schools around you

 

I would list the pros and cons of your major options, and decide which schooling option (public school, charter school, correspondence school, homeschool) best meets as many of your needs and goals as possible, and minimizes as many of the "downsides" to that option as possible.

 

It's good to be thinking through these things in advance. And, it's also good to realize that you're not "set in stone" once you start down a path for high school if you find it's not working. You CAN switch to a different option partway through if you need to. BEST of luck as your family works to come to a decision. Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

Edited October 18, 2016 by Lori D.

[Sunshine State Sue]

Be aware that the GED was drastically overhauled starting Jan. 2014, and is now more difficult to pass

 

I know nothing about AZ homeschooling, but I volunteer as a math tutor for GED students.  I just wanted to agree with Lori here.  I would not recommend going the GED route if there is another alternative.

 

Edited October 19, 2016 by Sue in St Pete

[Barb_]

Ravin I've graduated three, soon four, homeschoolers in AZ. The Maricopa community colleges are fantastic. That's where my kids have done their sciences. While we could have done them at home, I'd much rather outsource labs. If you want to do them at home without putting a course together yourself, look into Rio Salado. All of their courses are online and you do the labs yourself with a lab kit. One of my girls did a chemistry class that way in her dorm because she couldn't grab. Required course as a sophomore. She said it worked out fine.

 

ETA-- If you want to do more research about that option, do a search for "special admissions". The info for dual enrollment is easy to find and their site makes it look like that's the only option. Concurrent, on-campus enrollment is hidden under special admissions.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Barb_

[Lori D.]

Giving you a bump to get you more eyeballs. :)

 

Also, you might get more input if you change your title to something more general about trying to decide whether or not to homeschool high school -- there are a lot of people with great experience who may not feel they can answer if they don't live in AZ. ;) You can always add a sentence in your post that you are in AZ and would also like specific ideas for homeschooling in AZ... Just a thought! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Ravin]

Currently, I am DD's principal teacher/academic planner. She has math instruction on weekends (with review during the week) STEPS is independent (I just periodically check progress), DH works with her on creative writing, and she attends a 3 day/week enrichment program that ends with 8th grade (or if we move out of county, and most of the houses we are looking at are across county lines in one direction or another).

 

I expect DD will change her mind and change it again. I want to keep her options open. We tried online schooling last year, and it was a disaster, with the requirements for how much progress she was to make and how long she was to focus her attention on schoolwork in a day both being unrealistic and overwhelming for her even after an IEP was in place.

 

Most of her math instruction currently is remediating her regression in math; She is also doing Hands on Equations at the enrichment program which is good for moving towards prealgebra. Her expectations for high school are unrealistic and unrelated to academics--she just doesn't like working on her own and wants to be social all. the. time.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Ravin

[Lang Syne Boardie]

In a hurry so I may have missed something, but somebody should throw this out:

 

Cosmetology schools are noted for being difficult for hs'ers, frequently not accepting the same transcript that would get your kid into a state university! This will vary HUGELY by state, and just as in my area we've seen some improvement in trade schools, others have noted progress with vocational schools, but it's been enough of an issue in the past that I would be 100% sure of my hs'ing decision if cosmetology school admittance would be at risk.

 

Attending a half day vocational high school program might be a compromise, with hs'ing happening the rest of the day. This is what my son does; he's finishing his 12th grade year as a hs'er while taking welding through a vocational high school. His school also has cosmetology, culinary arts, automotive tech, etc. You might look for such a program while you're finding out what cosmetology schools will require. It's possible the experience, and recommendations from teachers, might override the cosmetology schools' objections to hs'ing? I don't know.

 

Whatever happens, good luck! It is HARD to see our out-of-the-box kids gravitate toward the box, just because it's so difficult to get the whole picture together for high school. BTDT.

 

 

[Ravin]

In a hurry so I may have missed something, but somebody should throw this out:

 

Cosmetology schools are noted for being difficult for hs'ers, frequently not accepting the same transcript that would get your kid into a state university! This will vary HUGELY by state, and just as in my area we've seen some improvement in trade schools, others have noted progress with vocational schools, but it's been enough of an issue in the past that I would be 100% sure of my hs'ing decision if cosmetology school admittance would be at risk.

 

Attending a half day vocational high school program might be a compromise, with hs'ing happening the rest of the day. This is what my son does; he's finishing his 12th grade year as a hs'er while taking welding through a vocational high school. His school also has cosmetology, culinary arts, automotive tech, etc. You might look for such a program while you're finding out what cosmetology schools will require. It's possible the experience, and recommendations from teachers, might override the cosmetology schools' objections to hs'ing? I don't know.

 

Whatever happens, good luck! It is HARD to see our out-of-the-box kids gravitate toward the box, just because it's so difficult to get the whole picture together for high school. BTDT.

 

Yes, this is one option I'm looking at. EVIT (in the East valley) accepts home schoolers and has a cosmetology program, but we're moving to the far West valley (and out of county) or south (and out of county), so I'll have to look at what is available in the specific county and high school district where we land.

Edited October 21, 2016 by Ravin

[Hunter]

I'd take a long hard look at American School's general diploma option. You can always add college prep classes as electives, when using the general option.

 

American School is accredited. Tertiary school have to accept the diploma.

[MarkT]

We are in the process of moving, and with that came a conversation about schools.

 

Currently, DD says she wants to go to "regular" high school, and DH has said we "don't have the resources" to home school high school. He insists that all the colleges require x, y, and z "the same as AZ state high school graduation requirements" for admission, unless she wants to be in one remedial class after another before she gets to anything creditable.

 

1. Arizona state high school graduation requirements are something eyeroll-worthy, our schools overall suck. The high school where we just put an offer on a house sucks even in relation to the general Arizona school suckiness.

 

2. DD is NOT traditional college-bound. She has neither the interest nor aptitude for anything resembling competitive or even run-of-the mill bachelor's level college education. Her current aspirations are cosmetology school and, eventually, an AA in business entrepreneurship so that she can work for herself. These are reasonable goals.

 

 

We do have open enrollment and quite a few charter schools to pick from so ask around!    You may have to drive them - I do.

 

Being from the northeast, it seems to be more of a matter that parents have lower expectations in AZ.

 

I do agree that the AZ HS requirements have a one size college prep fits all mentality.

 

Good luck.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I think the only way around not having a lot of work for yourself to pull it off is to outsource a lot of stuff or outsource completely.  There are some affordable on-line programs where you can get an accredited diploma.  The concern I would have with something like that though is if she has any special needs they really do not cater to that.

 

But then I also want to point out that even in my state, which is high reg, there is no specific science requirement other than you have to have X number of science courses.  It doesn't even state that a lab science is required.  It just says two units of science (2 years of science).  So that could be anything.  You could gear that completely to the sorts of things she'd study in cosmetology school.  It also makes no mention about level required. 

 

Have you looked into what, if anything, is available at any local tech high school programs?  Here you can study cosmetology in high school. 

 

 

Edited October 21, 2016 by SparklyUnicorn

[MysteryJen]

Lori's post is excellent. Her number one point is really the most important. If a kid wants to go to high school ( or really, really doesn't) that is going to be the predictor of success. If she wants more social things and is willing to do classes (with a good IEP in place), high school is probably the best option to try first. If it doesn't work out, then you can find something else. 

 

Social stuff is hard in high school. So much revolves around the daily action at school. My older three found their way around it, but they are introverts and generally need a lower level of daily interaction. Dd2 is more extroverted and just needed to be around more people. We are in the process of thinking things over for the last one and haven't come to a good conclusion yet.

[Susie in CA]

Lori's point about 'wanting to go to high school' is indeed the most important point. In order to homeschool high school you need her buy-in. This is very difficult to achieve if all she wants to do is go to school. 

 

Besides this point I would like to mention science. As homeschoolers I have found that we are much more concerned about Science than necessary. I, too, was always worried about Science. Both my kids went to high school for two years and what I found was that both my boys knew most of what they learned already and both did relatively view labs.

 

Science courses they took:

 

1. Biology: We had covered everything they learned in this class at home. Ds said that we had done way more labs at home than they did at school.

2. Earth Science: Same as above. This course had no real labs because it was not a Lab Science course.

3. Chemistry: Same as above with the exception to Chemistry specific calculations. Finally a course in which ds learned something new. That year they had a wonderful Chem teacher who also did lots of labs. Ds really liked this class. The next year this teacher was gone. The next teacher hardly did any labs.

4. Marine Science: Because this course was more specific ds did learn new things. However, there was nothing you can't do at home. Again, hardly any labs as this was not a Lab Science course.

 

All this to say that I strongly believe that how difficult the course is, or how many labs there are, greatly varies not only from state to state, but also from school to school, and even from teacher to teacher. I have come to the conclusion that I can cover all the basic Science courses in the same way as most high schools do. It is the advanced courses (AP etc) where I need outside help. And both boys will take care of this at the community college.

 

You could cover entry level Science at home if you are inclined to do so. :-)