How to spot sabotage or self-sabotage in homeschooling

[ElizaG]

I'm interested in learning what applied psychology can tell us about (probably usually unconscious) "homeschooling sabotage."   This could be caused by ourselves, our children, our spouses, or others who are involved in our children's education.   Or some combination of the above. 

 

I've seen many books that deal with sabotage and self-sabotage in the workplace, and a few that relate to marriage, but none for homeschooling -- or even for teaching or raising children in general.   There are general principles that are shared across all of these contexts (as described, e.g., in this article), but it would be helpful to have some specific examples that are applicable to our daily situation. 

 

Has anyone seen something like this?  Even a link to an article would be appreciated.

 

Thank you!   :001_smile:

[SarahW]

Interesting. 

 

I've heard of parents "competing" with their kids, a la The Black Swan mom. It has occurred to me that the homeschool environment is ripe for this sort of behavior, but no, I've never seen anything discussing it.

 

I mean, in my own experience, my parents had a fraught relationship with education and educational attainment (and opinions on the "right" sort of education) which definitely impacted, and negatively impacted, my education when I was homeschooled. I suspect that this happens more often then we would like to admit, but since homeschoolers are a "don't even think about evaluating how I do things" bunch, I think it would be quite difficult to study this.

[ElizaG]

I'm not necessarily talking about issues that are specific to homeschooling, although those are interesting as well.    Nor am I searching for the stuff of creepy movies.   Mostly, I'm looking for fairly mundane examples of how the usual types of sabotaging behaviors might play out in a homeschool context.

 

I guess I'm of the school of thought that self-sabotage can be the source of many of our everyday problems, such as procrastination and unfinished projects (as described in that Psychology Today article above).   And that it's not so rare for people -- including children -- to sabotage others to various extents, whether consciously or not, perhaps due to some insecurity about their own place in the dynamic.   "Tearing down" rather than "building up," in Biblical terms.  I'd like to improve my awareness of this, as part of building my skills as a teacher and mother.   :001_smile:

 

 

 

 

[SarahW]

Ah, yes, I was in an angsty mood last night. I do think there exist cases where the mom is like "I hate math! Math is hard! Why do we have to do so much stupid math! I never use math I was forced to learn!" and then is surprised when the kids grumble over finishing their daily math lesson. And yes, The Black Swan mom who is jealous of her kids becoming "smarter" than she is (like in my case, ahem).

 

But smaller things, unintentional sabotage. I tend towards procrastination and making grand plans and then failing to follow through. Most of the curriculum we're using right now simply requires me to turn to the next page, scan what it is about, and then set it in front of my kid with a pencil. Sometimes we get around to fun projects, but they're a one-off thing. If I can't just grab the morning textbooks off the window ledge and put them on the table, I'll be stuck in dreaming mode all day.

 

Crazypants has some of the same self-sabotage traits that I do. He'll waste his computer time watching dumb youtube videos, and when I tell him that time's up he'll whine that he never got to finish his Scratch project. Whelp, you should have spent your time on Scratch rather than youtube, shouldn't have you? (meanwhile my brain screams at me about kettles and the color black, lol). It's an EF issue at it's heart, but seeing as he's pretty talented at coding, if he keeps this up his potential will pass him by.

 

As for sabotaging others, every time CP whines when he's doing schoolwork about how hungry he is, how much his hand hurts, how much his brain hurts, and how horribly that new, random, mysterious spot on his body is hurting, I swear he is sabotaging my grand plans to turn him into a very successful adult (a la the mom in the new Little Prince movie, I can do not-creepy movie references, too! lol). I'm sure that when I get frustrated and yell at him to knock it off I'm not helping him either.

 

I don't think I have an answer to the "how to spot" question. I do try to critically evaluate myself and the relationship between my goals and my practice. Maybe that helps?

[ElizaG]

I did find a promising line of research - not in individual psychology, but in family systems theory (e.g. Bowen).   Which makes sense.  The idea is that there are various unhealthy dynamics that happen in families, due to people being unable to handle their own anxiety, and thus passing it off on others in various ways.   Like the song lyric in my signature, but the opposite.  "Anxiety is something if you give it away, you have bizarre family systems."  ;)  

 

Often, the whole family is invested in the stability of this anxiety-channeling system, so much that whenever one member makes a positive change in their behavior, the others rush to restore equilibrium.  Therapists don't tend to use the word "sabotage" to describe this, but that's clearly the effect.   This would explain the drama.  And the Sisyphean quality of it all. 

 

IDK if the family systems people have done much with homeschoolers.  It seems like a pretty ripe field, especially with larger families.  We have constant opportunities for triangulation, and for exhibiting overfunctioning and underfunctioning (concepts 2-4 at the above link). 

 

As I understand it, the key to sustaining improvement is for one central figure to stay calm, and thus lead everyone else to calm down, so that the system can find a new equilibrium.  Which suggests that there might be a profound therapeutic role for "Mommy's Secret Chocolate Stash."  :laugh:

 

[Slache]

Those I know in real life that sabotaged themselves either under planned and got nothing done, or over planned and taught their kids to hate school and sometimes their teacher. Those that succeed seem to do what's right in that moment for that child and be flexible and open to communication. I don't mean not to have a general idea of what you want, but just because you want to use IEW and AoPS doesn't mean that's what should really be happening, so don't make that a hill to die on. Acknowledge that school is a responsibility for both the student and the teacher. If you're not making it a priority then something is wrong and that needs to be addressed.

[Jean in Newcastle]

A lot of the people I know on this board, including myself, do evaluate how things are going.  I often will tweak things or even totally revamp things during the year in an attempt to do things better and in a way that meets the needs of my students. 

 

But having said that, there is also a need to recognize that I am not perfect.  I wasn't perfect as a public/private school teacher and I'm not perfect as a homeschool teacher.  I've never had a perfect student either, including my own two kids.  So when you talk about sabotage, in what context are you talking about?  What are the goals?  If it is a perfect education, then forget it - that actually is one of the things I felt was hurting our homeschool - the stress and rigidity of trying to do everything perfectly.  I'm much more happy with the less ambitious goal of having a good (but not perfect) education. 

[MinivanMom]

I'm not sure whether this is what you're asking, but I see a lot of parents in real-life who sabotage their children's ability to develop independence.

 

I have (public school) friends who wake their high schoolers up every morning, do their laundry for them, check their homework assignments daily, and drive up to the high school several mornings a week to deliver something their teen "forgot" (gym clothes, homework, permission slip). Then they complain about how dependent their teen is and how he doesn't take any responsibility. It's hard not to think, "Well, if you would let him get a "0" in gym, because he didn't have his clothes and couldn't dress out . . . " It's almost like they can't see how they are a part of the dynamic.

 

Among my real-life homeschooling friends, I see parents who severely limit their teens' friendships with other teens (even "like-minded" kids of the same faith), and then they are upset that their teen has no close friends and is feeling lonely and left out. In real life, I also see this cycle where the parents micromanage everything in the teen's life, then they want to extend high school or keep the kids at home for college, because the parents don't think the teen is "ready" to be independent and move past homeschooling. Those situations do look like self-sabotage from the outside, especially when the same cycle occurs with multiple kids in the same family.

[ElizaG]

I don't know where people might be finding the idea of "perfection" in this discussion, but I didn't put it there.   If anything, perfectionism seems more like a form of sabotage in itself. 

 

Going by the links I posted above, and the posts here, it seems as if both sabotage and self-sabotage happen when one person's good, reasonable choice -- e.g., to start taking responsibility for oneself, to stop taking so much responsibility for another, to start planning, to stop planning -- makes either that person, or other members of the system, feel bad somehow. 

 

And it turns out that the family systems people do use that word, though it seems more associated with Friedman than with Bowen.   (I'll have to look into his work.)  They call it "reactive sabotage," and acknowledge that one of the biggest challenges is to get through this stage.  Very interesting. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

 If anything, perfectionism seems more like a form of sabotage in itself. 

 

 

 

Which is why I mentioned it as such. 

[Vida Winter]

I suppose we all, unwittingly, engage in this to one degree or another, with every decision we make. There is always something we could have, should have done differently. It seems sort of pointless to dwell on it. I'd rather keep learning and moving forward.

[MinivanMom]

I suppose we all, unwittingly, engage in this to one degree or another, with every decision we make. There is always something we could have, should have done differently. It seems sort of pointless to dwell on it. I'd rather keep learning and moving forward.

 

I don't know. I think it's good to self-evaluate. Is this working? Is it having the desired affect? I think part of growing and being flexible as a parent is in my willingness to look honestly at what may not be working and then being willing to adjust.

 

I don't think any of my core values have changed, but some of my behaviors and attitudes and approaches have shifted over time.. Some of that has come with experience and some of that has come from having individual children whose needs were different than the siblings who came before them.

 

Of course, I come at it from the perspective of having a large family. I still have little kids just starting on the journey so self-reflection about what I've done well or not done well with my older kids feels like a positive thing. It doesn't feel like dwelling in my personal circumstances.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I suppose we all, unwittingly, engage in this to one degree or another, with every decision we make. There is always something we could have, should have done differently. It seems sort of pointless to dwell on it. I'd rather keep learning and moving forward.

 

 

I don't know. I think it's good to self-evaluate. Is this working? Is it having the desired affect? I think part of growing and being flexible as a parent is in my willingness to look honestly at what may not be working and then being willing to adjust.

 

I don't think any of my core values have changed, but some of my behaviors and attitudes and approaches have shifted over time.. Some of that has come with experience and some of that has come from having individual children whose needs were different than the siblings who came before them.

 

Of course, I come at it from the perspective of having a large family. I still have little kids just starting on the journey so self-reflection about what I've done well or not done well with my older kids feels like a positive thing. It doesn't feel like dwelling in my personal circumstances.

I see both of your points.  I think self evaluation is good.  But I don't think it is good to just dwell on any mistakes that you might have noticed when you did the self evaluation.  That is when you learn from it and move forward. 

[ElizaG]

For those who don't find this line of thinking helpful, feel free to ignore.  It's already helped me at least two or three times today.    :001_smile:

 

Regarding my question in the thread title:   Bowen isn't anti-feelings, but his theory says that to get out of this kind of fix, our reason has to take the lead.   So, working backwards, I wonder if excessive emotionalism -- especially over things that don't seem to warrant getting emotional over in the first place -- could sometimes be a clue that this sort of dynamic is going on. 

 

(deleted anecdote for privacy reasons :001_smile: )  

Edited July 3, 2016 by ElizaG

[Farrar]

One of the things I feel like I see in terms of parents sabotaging homeschooling is that they get into these pendulum swings and cycles where they go from doing very little to overdoing it. When they're doing very little, they stress about it because they're worried the kids can't do anything, but then when they try to do something, they don't set the kids (or themselves) up for success and end up overdoing it or doing too much too fast or too much without enough support.

 

Another thing I've seen a lot with homeschoolers self-sabotaging is people whose kids crave more social time. The parents complain about the lack of opportunities but then when presented with them, they seem to find every reason not to pursue them. Then, eventually, they "have to" give up on homeschooling. I've seen that one play out just like that a few times.

 

I think evaluation is good. If we didn't pause to do portfolios sometimes, I'd feel like I was running in place.

[FO4UR]

Sibling jealousy can be a source of sabotage. Juggling it all for multiple kids can be too much. Careful delegation of tasks is required. Boundaries have to be enforced.

 

 

The non-teacher spouse can also be a source of sabotage. The need to put the teaching parent down in order to feel like a good parent themselves is a problem for some. Even the unspoken idea that mom teaches the boring school subjects, but dad comes home to play can be severely damaging, not only to the homeschool but to the overall dynamics of the home.

 

 

 

[monicac82]

I was thinking about this with my 4 year old who I'm starting on a modified Pre-K/K "curriculum." People I talk online with seem to think she's not ready, but more importantly I've noticed that aside from possible anxiety she's started to learn that behaving as if she can't figure something out leads to either someone doing the work for her or her not having to do the work at all. This worries me for later because we can't always take breaks (as in taking the rest of the day/week/month) off because something upset either her or my son. I want them to build the tools to â€‹work through frustration.

[monicac82]

One of the things I feel like I see in terms of parents sabotaging homeschooling is that they get into these pendulum swings and cycles where they go from doing very little to overdoing it. When they're doing very little, they stress about it because they're worried the kids can't do anything, but then when they try to do something, they don't set the kids (or themselves) up for success and end up overdoing it or doing too much too fast or too much without enough support.

 

Another thing I've seen a lot with homeschoolers self-sabotaging is people whose kids crave more social time. The parents complain about the lack of opportunities but then when presented with them, they seem to find every reason not to pursue them. Then, eventually, they "have to" give up on homeschooling. I've seen that one play out just like that a few times.

 

I think evaluation is good. If we didn't pause to do portfolios sometimes, I'd feel like I was running in place.

 I agree. Also, if the non-teaching spouse is unsupportive and insists that PS is "good enough," refuses to help with daily house maintenance ("I cleaned while you were out of town and you should have been able to keep it clean, and besides you're the housewife your job is to keep care of the house."---He thinks the kids can be ignored). 

[kbutton]

The adult in charge of homeschooling does not like school and didn't like school (and is not big on reading, etc.)--by their own admission, said adult tends to spend a lot of time housekeeping and redecorating (especially school and kids' rooms) and pro-clicking (often very heart-warming, romantic sounding material designed to solve all your homeschooling issues), and school is lots of nature studies and read alouds (nothing against either one--I wish we did those more). They also aren't unschooling intentionally. I always hope this is a situation where they have really high standards for themselves, and they actually are doing just fine by reasonable standards, but the regular woe is us that comes out at support meetings suggests otherwise.

 

Parents whose kids probably have learning or developmental disabilities, and they don't want to know or find every other reason on earth to say it isn't so...including saying their kids are just lazy and don't like school (when they are not lazy kids).

 

My self-sabotage usually involves doing one thing when I'm supposed to be doing another, or not being at elbow when I should be--usually just for a minute. Sometimes I fail to adjust quickly enough when a problem arises.

 

[Critterfixer]

I'm pretty good at the procrastination thing myself. :lol:

Truth be told, a lot of times procrastination doesn't exactly sabotage my efforts, but sometimes brings my efforts back down to reality. It might be procrastination that keeps me from reserving everything I need at the library so that I can pick it up, but usually that also means that I pick up one thing that I might really use instead of the ten things that would overwhelm me. So sometimes self-sabotage can also be an indicator of needing to scale back, settle down and not do so much.  Sort of a symptom, not a disease, I guess.

[Needingdirection]

I didn't read through every response, so I'm sorry if this has been said, but sabotage/self sabotage I believe generally originates from a place of insecurity. Kids will dumb themselves down in public school to match their same aged peers for example, or in a marriage most fights originate when 1 person is feeling insecure-their spouse may try to compliment them but the 1 who is feeling insecure in the moment takes it the wrong way and an argument ensues.

 

In dating if you don't feel worthy of being chosen as a "mate" (excuse the wording, I was aiming for gender neutral and better phrasing escaped me) then YOU might ask inappropriate questions off the rip and then when the relationship fails "see, I just don't make enough " or "I'm just not pretty enough" etc.

 

So applying that same concept to homeschooling, I would say you spot it by noticing what the person in question is insecure about and/or what they blame their failures or shortcomings on.

 

If they are consistently saying that they didn't do x this week or you that week because they had to get the house immaculate, then perhaps they feel insecure a bit about their cleaning services?

 

Or if their kid is behind in writing or science or math (and it's not for a disability, etc) and they blame it on "I'm just not a good (insert subject here) teacher. I was bad at it in school, and I just don't know what I'm doing."

 

Stuff like that I'd imagine would be the ways to spot self sabotage because generally we are all our own worst critics. I think?