when a student gets a poor grade on a test

[Ame E.]

do you let them take it over (or redo the problems they missed) and average the two grades? or do you just let that grade be, and have them correct their mistakes? This is apologia physical science, test for module 2..

 

thanks

Edited October 7, 2008 by Ame E.
added info

[Quiver0f10]

I do let them redo a test once and give them the updated grade. After they redid it once, if they still have wrong answers, I have them try to find the answers using their notes & text books, but they don't get another updated grade.

[Bev in B'ville]

Someone else posted a while back about math tests and I adopted their style. My dc take the test once, I circle the number for the math problem they did incorrectly and put a check mark next to the problems done correctly. They are allowed to recorrect the test once. Then I regrade it. Those problems that were correct the first time, they get full credit. For problems they correctly corrected, they get half credit. Of course for problems they missed they don't get any credit, but we still go over them and I make sure they understand what they missed. However, if the final grade is below 80, my dc has to redo that chapter. Using this method, I feel that anything below 80 means that they truly didn't understand the concepts of that chapter and/or are having trouble with the calculations needed.

 

Other subjects they get one shot. If they didn't prepare well, then they have their work cut out for them to bring that grade up.

 

Just my $.02

[rwalizer]

On Apologia Physical Science module 2 test my ds got a 67 because he was too lazy to study so I let it stand. It was not that he could not grasp a concept, he just didn't feel like preparing so I let him live with the consequences. However, I have let him retake tests when he really tried but just didn't understand the material. My goal is to see that he learns, but there have to be consequences for laziness. Maybe I should make him retake the entire test when laziness is the cause for a bad grade so that he would suffer through the misery of redoing it. He would be sure to learn the material and redoing all that work would be punishment for not preparing. I'm still on the fence about this one.

[Chris in VA]

Interesting--I just posted on Lux' thread about SAT and grade inflation.

I'll tell you that, at our ps, kids can turn in late assignments for partial credit; some teachers let kids retake, or correct and return, tests; and honors courses get a higher scale for the GPA.

While I think mastery of the material is more important than a certain grade, I try to hold ds accountable to a scale. So, I don't change grades--if he flunks a test, he gets the F. He also has to correct it, and I don't change the F. What I do is make his tests count slightly less overall than other work--papers, discussion, daily work, etc.

[Laura K (NC)]

In my opinion, there is a value in knowing when a test is, preparing for it by memorizing and/or mastering the material before a deadline, and then being responsible for the results that follow. I wasn't to harsh on my kids before high school, but in high school I really believe my kids can and should do this, and the grade that they get at the end of the semester or year reflects discipline and mastery. These are the same reasons that some were outraged that teachers in Texas were throwing out deadlines and letting kids retake tests over and over again to pull up their grade.

 

There HAVE been tests, though, that I've thrown out. One test in Alg. 2 at the beginning of this year was really tough on my son. He bombed it because he didn't understand what was being asked of him, and I really, honestly, had not presented the material as well as I should have, nor had I previewed the test to see for myself what the author thought was important in the chapter, and I had misled my son. Since a lot of the responsibility for failure rested on me, I did throw that one out. But I also re-taught the chapter so he was able to understand what he had not understood before.

 

I won't make my kids take a test if they're sick, and I won't let them take a test if they have bombed any of the homework. A lot of our subjects have built-in tests or comprehension questions. Checking homework daily (and then rechecking that for mastery) gives us homeschoolers a built-in advantage over public schoolers. We can give our kids immediate and personal feedback, so we already know if a kid will do well on a test before he takes it.

[momof2boys]

I do not let my boys retake a test. Whatever they get on the test the first time is their grade. I do however require them to go back over their test and either rework the problem if it is a math test or look up the answer to the question they missed on history or science.

[xxxxxxxx]

Daily work is done over. I average the original grade and the second try together. Then anything that is still wrong is done again with no change in grade. Hopefully we have everything mastered before tests are given. My kids get one chance with tests............usually it is poor management, lazy attitudes, or just plain not studying when they get a bad grade on a test. I believe in one chance at tests because in life there are lots of times you have to get things right the first time and you don't get a second chance.

[Plaid Dad]

This has come up in the high school where I'm teaching. All of the students were previously homeschooled, and some have never had to study for exams before.

 

I am cutting them some slack because of their lack of experience, but I am finding that some of them are surprised that they can't just take the tests over and over until they get an A. That's what they've always done at home. I realize that some high-stakes tests can be taken repeatedly (e.g., SATs), but I think that sets students up for a real shock when they get to college. It is also unfair to their classmates who studied hard and got a good grade the first time. Finally, it feeds into the notion that "everyone's special, Dash" - that all students can and should be above average in all subjects. I've had to tell parents that it would be a very, very unusual student who could pull straight A's in our school. We expect most students to be, well, average, and that means in the C or low B range. (C runs from 75-83%; our cut-off passing grade is 70.)

 

So while I would consider dropping the lowest grade under certain circumstances, I would not allow high school students to retake tests, particularly not multiple times. Instead, I take time to teach study and organization skills, including test-taking strategies. I also go over tests very carefully in the next class so that the students can learn from their errors.

[langfam]

I've done exactly like Bev, but can see Plaid Dad's point of view.

 

I have 2 seniors. Dd I feel deserved all of her grades because she usually didn't have many redos. This is reflected in her high SAT score all around.

 

Ds on the other hand, has redone/rewritten many papers. I've always been concerned that his transcripts are inflated for most subjects except math and science. His SAT scores reflect his strengths and his weaknesses, so now we are dealing with a discrepancy for him.

 

For my younger dc, as a result, I've changed to more of a Plaid Dad's approach.

Edited October 11, 2008 by langfam

[Jann in TX]

My middle dd was homeschooled through 5th grade. She started PS in 6th grade. While I admit that this dd does have some test anxiety she also has very good study skills. While being homeschooled DH or I would always go over the material with her VERBALLY before she was tested. We did the same thing while she was in PS. DH or I would sit down with dd and review the material that the test would cover--any homework or study guides she had completed... DD always did well on tests IF she was prepared for them. If we left her alone to read the text, answer the questions and then take the test she would ALWAYS make less than stellar grades (homeschool or PS). This dd NEEDS to have active discussion of the topic (not just listening to a teacher or watching a video) in order to process the information--answering homework questions alone just does not cut it for her. Now that she is older (10th grade) SHE is the one responsible for asking for study help. While she was in PS some of her teachers were good at providing active discussion during class time--other teachers were not and dd formed outside study groups or asked DH or I to study/reteach with her.

 

Since I have the advantage in knowing your student in question I'll lend you my thoughts :)

This student needs to have the material presented in several different ways--not just visually. If you or your dh sat down and reviewed the material with him/her (remember YOU are the 'teacher') then the responsibility falls more on your student's shoulders. If your student was left to study on his/her own (as in independent learning) then I would definitely suggest that you take a more active role in his/her learning by modeling/teaching study skills as they are not quite mature enough to handle this responsiblity.

 

This particular student wants to please and will tell you want he/she thinks you want to hear. In a learning situation if you ask the simple questions like "Are you ready to take the test?" or "Did you study?" he/she will most likely answer "Yes." because that is what they THINK you want them to say. As the teacher/parent you will need to ask LOADED questions in order to determine if the material was really learned/processed before giving a test. "Tell me about the 3 states of matter and give me examples." Review the study guide with your student before the test.

 

I've used Apologia with my dd's in the past. This program relies A LOT on memorization. Many students just do not have the ability to process information by simple/rote memorization--they need to actively participate in the learning/discussion.

[anissarobert]

Jann-

 

I'm not the OP, but what you described sounds exactly like my dd. She failed the module 2 Apologia Biology test last week, and I think the discussion with me is the thing that must be missing. No amount of lecturing on study skills seems to be working. Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge. (Now is you just could tell me where to find the time to keep up with her in bio.:001_smile:)

[BabyBre]

Don't "retakes" defeat the purpose of a "test" grade? Isn't a test meant to test the knowledge of the subject on a particular topic? If retakes are allowed, doesn't it turn the test into a high-stakes assignment?

 

Ds is in public high school and is allowed test corrections for 3/4 of a point each on the questions he missed (luckily for him), but I feel that's a bit of a handout.

 

When he was at home, I offered no retakes or points for corrections, but he most certainly had to make the corrections.

[Bev in B'ville]

Don't "retakes" defeat the purpose of a "test" grade? Isn't a test meant to test the knowledge of the subject on a particular topic? If retakes are allowed, doesn't it turn the test into a high-stakes assignment?

 

Ds is in public high school and is allowed test corrections for 3/4 of a point each on the questions he missed (luckily for him), but I feel that's a bit of a handout.

 

When he was at home, I offered no retakes or points for corrections, but he most certainly had to make the corrections.

 

 

...whose idea I co-opted (I wish I could remember her name on the old board), I am less interested in a "gotcha" by marking scores incorrect than true understanding of the material. If the proof is in the pudding, then I offer my own, however anecdotal. My dd took the ACT for the 1st time this spring as a 14 yo. Her score was high enough to garner attention from several schools that she didn't submit them to, some of which have taken to calling her weekly. We just met with admissions officials from Georgia Tech (which she did submit the scores to) on Friday who are recruiting her now (of course, I have no intention of allowing my now 15yo dd to go away to college yet, but I think it's good to be on their radar screen). They also told her to apply for the merit scholarship they offer and they only have ~100 slots for that and 1400 applications. Apparently, at least for dd, my method has not irreparably harmed her.

 

As always, just my $.02.