Memoria Press Lit guides vs CLE Reading

[Wholesomemomma]

I'm looking at these two programs for my 4th grade son this coming year. I'd love to know pros and cons as I've not used either of them before (though I am familiar with CLE math and LA).

 

Would you use MP guides a grade below if just jumping in? How many days per week is it assigned?

 

Thanks!

[TheAttachedMama]

Well, a big (HUGE!) pro for me would be that Memoria Press uses real books and quality literature.   I've not used CLE reading, but it looks like it uses some contrived story to teach reading...right?   (Correct me if I am wrong.)    If the end goal of reading is to get our kids reading and understanding actual litterature, isn't it best to teach them with acutal litterature?   Also, I don't mean to sound critical to the folks at CLE, but I would rather have my 4th grader reading the best of the best when it comes to litterature....and it is just hard to compare a contrived story about Noah Webster with Andrew Lang.   

 

Another thing to keep in mind, is that you can't expect to get out of children what you aren't putting in.   Output in language (writing and speaking) tends to pick up after the 4th grade.   You want to be sure that your children have the opportunity to read (and listen!) to REALLY good books in copious amounts at this age.   You wouldn't think that reading instruction would affect wriitng output, but I believe they are very closely tied together.   

 

-------

NOW---all of this to say, I personally would not order either program.  (Ducking!)   I might consider ordering the MP package, and then asking my children to answer the questions orally.   However, my concern is that it would kill their love of reading if they have to do all of that paper work after every book they read.   Perhaps only doing it for 4 books alone wouldn't be so bad?    I don't know.

 

I'm also not sure that you really need to study vocabulary as suggested in these reading packages.   I have found that children who read a lot tend to have a much higher vocabulary than children who do these fancy vocabulary programs.   So I (personally) would rather the kids spend that time listening to a read aloud or an audiobook---or reading for pleasure---rather than filling out one of these reading workbooks.  

 

As far as comprehension, I honeslty much prefer the child giving an oral narration of wha they have read than asking very specific comprehension questions.  Why?  Well, because once again, they are getting a chance to practice oral composition.   They are practicing putting their thoughts into words which will later help them with writing.   And when a child has to tell back what they have read, you can really get a much better idea of how much they have retained.  Sometimes a child might remember the one key fact they happen to ask about in those guides, but then not understand the rest of the story.  (That is bad.)  OR--a child might have forgotten that key fact (it didn't stand out to them for some reason), but they really have a good understanding of eveyrthng else they read.  Plus, they end up remember a lot more becaus they make it their own when they re-tell it.   

[Random]

We have used both CLE reading and MP guides.

 

I absolutely love the CLE reading and the corresponding light units.  The program is designed to take 1/2 the school year, leaving time and space to throw in your own literature selections.  Despite the above comment about the 'contrived stories,' my sons benefited immensely from a traditional textbook, on grade-level selection of reading.  At the 500 level, the stories were interesting, challenging to read, and the exercises in the light units were great training for reading literature critically. The lessons included poetry and meter, comprehension questions, vocabulary, using context clues, analogies, literary devices and a tiny bit of writing.

 

We enjoyed MP literature guides, as well.  These we used at the 4th grade level, and I was pleasantly surprised.  They go beyond comprehension questions, and are great training for critical reading as well.  At 4th grade, they include activities like drawing out scenes from the book.  The ones we used tied in Latin studies and Latin meanings of words in the books.  They contained copywork, pointing out literary devices, comprehension questions, vocabulary exercises and probably other stuff I can't remember.

 

I thought they were both fantastic tools in our homeschool.  We still do a ton of wonderful literature and great books (who defines these terms, anyway???) mostly on audio.  I'm frankly too busy to sit and work through oral narrations with all of my children for all of the books they are exposed to.  I find the lit guides or the CLE reading to be a nice way to gauge how much my kids are understanding from what they read and to force them to know the actual definitions of words, rather than just what they think it means, based on context.

 

Best wishes as you make your plans!

 

 

[Wholesomemomma]

Well, a big (HUGE!) pro for me would be that Memoria Press uses real books and quality literature.   I've not used CLE reading, but it looks like it uses some contrived story to teach reading...right?   (Correct me if I am wrong.)    If the end goal of reading is to get our kids reading and understanding actual litterature, isn't it best to teach them with acutal litterature?   Also, I don't mean to sound critical to the folks at CLE, but I would rather have my 4th grader reading the best of the best when it comes to litterature....and it is just hard to compare a contrived story about Noah Webster with Andrew Lang.   

 

Another thing to keep in mind, is that you can't expect to get out of children what you aren't putting in.   Output in language (writing and speaking) tends to pick up after the 4th grade.   You want to be sure that your children have the opportunity to read (and listen!) to REALLY good books in copious amounts at this age.   You wouldn't think that reading instruction would affect wriitng output, but I believe they are very closely tied together.   

 

-------

NOW---all of this to say, I personally would not order either program.  (Ducking!)   I might consider ordering the MP package, and then asking my children to answer the questions orally.   However, my concern is that it would kill their love of reading if they have to do all of that paper work after every book they read.   Perhaps only doing it for 4 books alone wouldn't be so bad?    I don't know.

 

I'm also not sure that you really need to study vocabulary as suggested in these reading packages.   I have found that children who read a lot tend to have a much higher vocabulary than children who do these fancy vocabulary programs.   So I (personally) would rather the kids spend that time listening to a read aloud or an audiobook---or reading for pleasure---rather than filling out one of these reading workbooks.  

 

As far as comprehension, I honeslty much prefer the child giving an oral narration of wha they have read than asking very specific comprehension questions.  Why?  Well, because once again, they are getting a chance to practice oral composition.   They are practicing putting their thoughts into words which will later help them with writing.   And when a child has to tell back what they have read, you can really get a much better idea of how much they have retained.  Sometimes a child might remember the one key fact they happen to ask about in those guides, but then not understand the rest of the story.  (That is bad.)  OR--a child might have forgotten that key fact (it didn't stand out to them for some reason), but they really have a good understanding of eveyrthng else they read.  Plus, they end up remember a lot more becaus they make it their own when they re-tell it.   

 

 

Thanks for your input mama! I see in your curriculum choices, you use Reading Detective. How have you liked that this year? That could very well take the place of lit guides and CLE reading, could it not? Looks interesting...

[FriedClams]

I highly recommend CLE reading over MP. I think CLE covers a LOT now, goes deeper, and requires a LOT more thinking than MP. For us, the 20 minutes a day spent on CLE was such great insurance we didn't miss anything. I have always contended that "reading"is a poor title for CLE since it covers so much more. If you look at the scope and sequence on their website you'll see what I mean. We used it alongside Sonlight for years and never found it redundant.

[Wholesomemomma]

I highly recommend CLE reading over MP. I think CLE covers a LOT now, goes deeper, and requires a LOT more thinking than MP. For us, the 20 minutes a day spent on CLE was such great insurance we didn't miss anything. I have always contended that "reading"is a poor title for CLE since it covers so much more. If you look at the scope and sequence on their website you'll see what I mean. We used it alongside Sonlight for years and never found it redundant.

 

Thanks!

 

How do you schedule sonlight and CLE together? Do you get CLE reading done the first half of the year and then do sonlight booklists the second half? Or do you alternate and make CLE last all year?

 

Does CLE reading really just take 20 min per day? That seems easy enough to fit in. I thought it would take much longer (based on how long it takes to complete our other CLE subjects, which is about 30-45 min.). 

[Insertcreativenamehere]

We don't formally do Sonlight but do read a lot of their books. As for CLE, I schedule it 2-3 days a week.

 

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

[FriedClams]

Thanks!

 

How do you schedule sonlight and CLE together? Do you get CLE reading done the first half of the year and then do sonlight booklists the second half? Or do you alternate and make CLE last all year?

 

Does CLE reading really just take 20 min per day? That seems easy enough to fit in. I thought it would take much longer (based on how long it takes to complete our other CLE subjects, which is about 30-45 min.).

We did it daily. When it was 5 LUs we did it every other day or in a semester. I think CLE Reading is one of the best curriculum picks out there.

[Caviar]

Next year I plan on using the MP Lit guides with my 5th grade DD.  MP did revamp a little, and the books for 5th grade used to be the books that they used for 4th grade (I think they still use them for 4th grade for their accelerated program), so I would use them at grade level according to their most recent catalog.  I wouldn't have a child write out the answers to all the questions, I'd just pick and choose.  Each lesson is only a two page spread, so should be doable maybe three times a week (I wouldn't do it everyday).  Likewise, I'd do the same for CLE reading, pick and choose what you want your child to do - don't have them do it all!  We tried CLE our first year homeschooling and it just was not a good fit for us because it did kill the desire to read.  But, DD's were only in 3rd and 2nd grade then, and they just needed to read for fun at that age, and build their reading stamina.    And, might I add, they needed to read books that they picked and wanted to read.  Now that they're a bit older I will have them do required reading with analysis, but only on 3 or 4 books a year, and MP fits the bill!  They can read other books for fun, and not report on them at all.

CLE does have very sweet stories though and I would recommend them.

 

 

[FO4UR]

I've never used CLE.

 

The MP guides are great for discussion starters, preparing for the reading, and teaching how to write coherent answers to questions.

 

If you use MP for a 4th grader, I'd recommend going over the guide orally and then choose a question or two for him to write out his response. We use quotes and poetry given in the Lit guide as copywork.

 

MP meshes well with a Charlotte Mason sort of Classical philosophy, which seeks to get to the meat of a high quality book, seeing the student interact with the author's ideas.

 

I have a feeling that CLE is more didactic, intending to teach a set of skills.

 

 

I suppose it's a question of what you want out of a reading program. 

[Emba]

I've never used CLE.  I have used one of the MP literature guides, for A Bear Called Paddington, and I never plan to use one again.  It took a perfectly cute, funny book and made it torture for DD.  At first I thought it was pretty good, but discussing vocab before reading, and then answering a bunch of questions, some of which dealt with very minor things in the story, just sucked the fun out of it pretty quickly. 

 

Now, I do think my DD benefits from explicit vocabulary instruction and comprehension questions, so we've started a reader/workbook reading program.  Some kids pick stuff up in context, but others, including DD have a hard time with that. 

[J&JMom]

I haven't used CLE, but I guess it would be considered a Basal reader?  If that is the case, I don't think this needs to be an either/or question.  We do both.  We work through the Basal textbook (McGraw Hill Treasures from Grade 2-5 or 6, depending on the kid and Holt McDougal Literature for Grades 6 or 7 and up) AND the MP guides at 1 book per quarter from 5th grade up.  We do the textbook daily (~30 minutes) and the MP guide 2x a week (~30 minutes). This is in addition to a group read aloud novel weekly (might be the entire book to a textbook selection, a recommended book in their program, tie into history or science, or just for fun) and independent reading goals (~30 minutes daily each).

I like this two-pronged approach because they are taught the explicit skills using leveled and targeted passages with the textbook as well as expanding their reach with the novels.

[Punks in Ontario]

I'd vote for both.  I've never used MP that young, but for grade 5 and up, we would do the 5LU of CLE and 2 or so MP guides.  It worked quite well.

[Rosepetal]

I haven't used CLE, but I guess it would be considered a Basal reader?  If that is the case, I don't think this needs to be an either/or question.  We do both.  We work through the Basal textbook (McGraw Hill Treasures from Grade 2-5 or 6, depending on the kid and Holt McDougal Literature for Grades 6 or 7 and up) AND the MP guides at 1 book per quarter from 5th grade up.  We do the textbook daily (~30 minutes) and the MP guide 2x a week (~30 minutes). This is in addition to a group read aloud novel weekly (might be the entire book to a textbook selection, a recommended book in their program, tie into history or science, or just for fun) and independent reading goals (~30 minutes daily each).

I like this two-pronged approach because they are taught the explicit skills using leveled and targeted passages with the textbook as well as expanding their reach with the novels.

Hi, I am also planning to add Mcgraw Hill Treasure Readers with its workbook for my 1st Grader.Would you mind sharing that do you also use http://www.mhschool.com/reading/treasure_workbooks/national/g1/on_level_pb.pdf   workbook?Does it contain  reading comprehension questions with focus on deeper critical thinking? How do you schedule Mcgraw Hill Treasure Readers with its workbook and other Literature readings per week? Thanks.

[ALB]

Another vote for both!  We've used several MP guides and really enjoy them, but I'm considering adding CLE to the mix because I think my dc could benefit from that kind of teaching about literature as well.  They are two very different programs, covering different things (except vocabulary and comprehension).  Since most grades of CLE only take half a year to complete, there is plenty of time to do one or two MP guides as well.

[mamamoose]

Can someone link the CLE literature? I only find LA curric.

[mamamoose]

Okay, never mind--I found it. So would you do MP for a quarter and then CLE for a quarter? Or what?

[J&JMom]

Hi, I am also planning to add Mcgraw Hill Treasure Readers with its workbook for my 1st Grader.Would you mind sharing that do you also use http://www.mhschool.com/reading/treasure_workbooks/national/g1/on_level_pb.pdf   workbook?Does it contain  reading comprehension questions with focus on deeper critical thinking? How do you schedule Mcgraw Hill Treasure Readers with its workbook and other Literature readings per week? Thanks.

Here are links to the resources I have found using a google search. No password necessary.  These are grade 1, but if you replace the "1" in the address you can see the resources for grades K - 5.

 

link to grade 1 online textbooks with audio:

http://www.glencoe.com/mhln/isbn/MMH/FL09/pe/treas_g1/treas_g1.html

 

link to grade 1 teacher resources:

http://www.glencoe.com/mhln/isbn/MMH/FL09/te/g1/

 

The teacher resources include manuals, workbooks, answer keys, level readers, etc. You can download any and all pdfs to your hard drive.

 

The teacher editions will give the daily scheduling, but in a nutshell (how I do it).  I started at grade 2 so YMMV:

Monday - Read Aloud separate book, cheap on Amazon or can find on Scribed) ~ 5 minutes

      Vocabulary - read definitions from teacher book ~5 minutes. Assign Practice book page

      Teach reading skill ~5 minutes

     Read vocabulary story.  Stop at each vocabulary word (bold) for context clues and comprehension checks from teacher ed. ~10 minutes

    Spelling - type list into spelling city (free) and take pretest.  Go over phonics lesson from TE, assign Spelling book page 2 for the week & practice book phonics page. ~10 minutes

   Grammar - Daily Language Activity (DLA), Teach lesson from TE. Assign Grammar workbook page.

Tuesday - Review Vocabulary (vocabulary trans - cloze page) 

  Main story - may take 2 days. Follow TE for questions and fill out the graphic organizer in workbook together. Assign Practice Book comprehension page

  Spelling - Spelling city games & workbook page

   Grammar -DLA,  Lesson from TE & workbook page

Wednesday - Review Vocabulary.  Teach skill (vocab trans - skill page)  Assign Vocabulary skill page in Practice Book

   Main Story or Level Reader, if finished Main.  See TE for selections (gold pages).  The level readers are included in the "Homeschool Connections" pdf.

  Spelling - games & workbook

   Grammar - DLA,games & workbook

Thursday - final review of vocabulary

  Paired selection from text - teach skill.  So Skill page in Practice book together.

  Spelling - post test using spelling city (if kid gets 90% then done, otherwise test again tomorrow)

  Grammar - lesson & workbook, DLA

Friday - give selection test and weekly assessment.  Use "test" pages in Grammar & Spelling workbooks.

For writing - I do my own thing as I find the Treasures way confusing.  

Every quarter I give a 'Unit assessment' with the writing prompts.

 

HINT - Many of the pdfs you can display on your computer screen and use a dry erase marker to fill out directly on the screen. Save TONS of paper this way and the marker easily wipes off the screen.  

 

HTH 

Edited May 13, 2016 by J&JMom

[Rosepetal]

@

J&JMom

Thanks a bunch! Pm'ed you.