I like Thinkwell Biology! Would you all help me understand my options?

[Sweet Home Alabama]

I watched Thinkwell biology sample videos, and LOVED them.  Have any of you used the CDs from Amazon?  I would love to buy the 12 month subscription, but with our internet limitations, we just could not stream.  They mention CDs on the Thinkwell website- that you have to buy the subscription, but is there a way to buy the subscription AND get their CDs?  Then maybe we could have access to the notes and tests without having to stream the lessons.  I need to know HOW we would implement Thinkwell on a day-by-day basis if we didn't use the subscription.

 

The Amazon site has one review that does concern me.  The reviewer states, "The lecturer frequently makes the incorrect statement that breaking bonds releases energy (especially in the videos on cellular respiration).  This is SUCH an incorrect statement and ANY chemistry professor will tell you that breaking bonds REQUIRES energy and does NOT release energy.  The ACTUAL release of energy results from the oxidation of glucose, which results in the transfer of electrons from a higher energy state to a lower energy state, thus releasing energy...NOT from bonds themselves!  I wish Thinkwell hired a different lecturer to record these cellular respiration videos, as the concept of energy being released from bonds being broken gives students a COMPLETELY incorrect idea."  Can anyone speak to this issue???

 

So, if we went with Thinkwell, I would need labs.  What labs would you all suggest?  Ds did life science in 7th grade which included a lab.  I would love something easy  to implement.  

 

Would we need a textbook to supplement?  Since Thinkwell is secular, could I "balance" it with a Christian text like BJU?  Seems like a textbook would be an advantage if we only had the CDs and didn't have access to the notes and quizzes from the subscription.

 

This is the route I am pursuing for the moment.  If this falls through, I think my second choice would be to use BJU with their DVDs.  I showed my son the DIVE sample, and he immediately discerned boredom. I don't think TTC would be a good fit either.  Well, I would still consider it, but I've seen samples, and I think it would be similar to DIVE as far as listening to the teacher.

 

If all else fails, I still have the Apologia Biology class from my cover school.

 

These have been the choices I have been considering since my first thread:

BJU with their DVDs

BJU with DIVE

Secular text with DIVE

Text with Thinkwell

Text with The Teaching Company

 

 

 

[MarkT]

https://www.homeschoolbuyersco-op.org/thinkwell-science/

[Sweet Home Alabama]

Thanks, Mark!

 

Bumping back up. My primary concern is successfully managing a biology course without having biology experience. The best option is to have a real teacher. If we opt to go it alone, we need a curriculum with excellent explanations and an easy to implement plan.

 

I love the Thinkwell videos. If you all could comment on the CDs and implementation, labs, etc that would be such a huge help!

[Joules]

Once you sign up for the course (through the HSBC or just at Thinkwell), you will have the option to add on items.  You can add the CD's (used to be $25) and the print workbooks (instead of downloading and printing everything yourself.)  So that part is easy.

 

The plan is easy to implement because they have a weekly lesson guide: http://www.thinkwellhomeschool.com/pdfs/lesson-plans/BiologyLessonPlan.pdf

and the quizzes and tests are graded online.  (I guess you'd have them watch the videos on CD and then only go to the website to quickly take the quiz.)

 

The only catch I see is that it is hard stuff.  It is college level biology with a significant amount of chemistry background needed for the biochemistry sections.  I spent a good bit of time with ds going through some chemistry to help him fully understand some sections.  He did the other parts on his own and really liked the professor.  He didn't love the quizzes and tests as often he felt like they were written by someone else and didn't relate to the corresponding lectures.  

 

I don't remember anything completely incorrect in the biochemistry lessons, though my background is physics/chemistry not biology and I'm not sure I watched every single one.  I know he glosses over some of the detailed chemistry involved as any biology professor would.  Otherwise it would be two courses in one!  It's been quite a few years, but I did feel at the time that he went into the chemistry needed, but not too deep to bog down the course.  

 

Overall, I was impressed, but it is an AP/college level course with the time/effort that that entails.

 

 

[8filltheheart]

Joules, what did you use for labs? My ds took Thinkwell bio and really enjoyed it, but he didn't do any labs with it. He already had numerous labs from chem and physics, so he did not need it as a lab science. Dd, otoh, is taking it next yr, but I do need to make it a lab science. I would love others feedback without trying to find a lab equivalent on my own.

[Joules]

Joules, what did you use for labs? My ds took Thinkwell bio and really enjoyed it, but he didn't do any labs with it. He already had numerous labs from chem and physics, so he did not need it as a lab science. Dd, otoh, is taking it next yr, but I do need to make it a lab science. I would love others feedback without trying to find a lab equivalent on my own.

 

The Illustrated Guide to Home Biology Experiments by Thompson.

 

Available at amazon in print  or here in pdf: http://www.thehomescientist.com/manuals/Illustrated_Guide_to_Home_Biology_Experiments.pdf

 

We bought the kit here:

http://www.thehomescientist.com/kits/BK01/bk01-main.html

 

We didn't do nearly all of the experiments and mainly focused on microbiology as that was ds's interest.  We also volunteer for a state-wide water monitoring organization, so monthly local creek monitoring was part of our course.

[8filltheheart]

Thank you!

[Sweet Home Alabama]

Joules, thank you!! Thinkwell comes in regular biology and AP. We would use the regular version. My son took Conceptual Physics and Apologia Chemistry in 9th/10th grades. Would you think this is enough background?

 

Ok... I've seen the cost ($150) for the subscription with the added cost for notes and tests on the Thinkwell site. We don't have enough monthly Internet to stream. This is why I'm more likely to go with the CDs from Amazon ($70). Amazon's description says that I would still get a code for online activities.

 

When I read (many) threads about Thinkwell here while researching biology, I read about the tests not matching up well with the videos. That has me wondering if it would make more sense to buy something like Kolbe Biology which will use a text with lesson plans, tests, answers, and labs (? Not sure about labs) and match the Miller Levine TOC with the Thinkwell videos. This way we avoid the inaccurate Thinkwell tests and have hand-holding with the Kolbe Biology.

 

Is this reasonable or overkill?

 

I'm going to call these companies today and try to figure something out after talking with them as well as from hearing from good folks here.

 

I've also looked at Biology Corner stuff...lots of great material there, but I don't see answers for worksheets or final exams. I think I would need to subscribe. The material is free, but it has us depending on the Internet again. Not a great idea.

 

My goal is to use something for biology that I can implement successfully without being experienced as a biology teacher.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Sweet Home Alabama

[Mom22ns]

Joules, thank you!! Thinkwell comes in regular biology and AP. We would use the regular version. My son took Conceptual Physics and Apologia Chemistry in 9th/10th grades. Would you think this is enough background?

 

Ok... I've seen the cost ($150) for the subscription with the added cost for notes and tests on the Thinkwell site. We don't have enough monthly Internet to stream. This is why I'm more likely to go with the CDs from Amazon ($70). Amazon's description says that I would still get a code for online activities.

 

When I read (many) threads about Thinkwell here while researching biology, I read about the tests not matching up well with the videos. That has me wondering if it would make more sense to buy something like Kolbe Biology which will use a text with lesson plans, tests, answers, and labs (? Not sure about labs) and match the Miller Levine TOC with the Thinkwell videos. This way we avoid the inaccurate Thinkwell tests and have hand-holding with the Kolbe Biology.

 

Is this reasonable or overkill?

 

I'm going to call these companies today and try to figure something out after talking with them as well as from hearing from good folks here.

 

I've also looked at Biology Corner stuff...lots of great material there, but I don't see answers for worksheets or final exams. I think I would need to subscribe. The material is free, but it has us depending on the Internet again. Not a great idea.

 

My goal is to use something for biology that I can implement successfully without being experienced as a biology teacher.

 

Thinkwell's regular biology is COLLEGE level, not high school. It includes MORE than the AP Biology. The only thing left out are the practice quizes for the AP Exam. Miller-Levine and Thinkwell do not cover the same information. Dd did both and found Thinkwell challenging after M/L.

[8filltheheart]

Momto2ns is correct that it is the equivalent of a college course. My ds took it w/ no prior high school bio class, but plenty of chem and physics. He did not find it too difficult. It is really going to depend on the student. I would not go the Thinkwell route for several of my students, but with my strong, academic-oriented kids, we have never had an issue.

[Sweet Home Alabama]

Oh no!  I thought I had a pretty good plan!  Ds and I really liked what we saw with Thinkwell even if his lectures were college level.  The teacher did such wonderful job explaining!  The drawings really engaged ds who really thinks in those terms.  It looks like such a good fit based on the sample we watched.  I want Thinkwell on a high school level.......Who would that be???  

 

Part of me wants to be rebellious and still use Thinkwell.  I say that with humor.  What text would match up with these videos?  

 

How bad would it be to still use Thinkwell for EXPOSURE...

Have him research individual topics from the TOC and do labs on the topics?  On a high school level.

 

Please tell me if this is foolish.   

 

[8filltheheart]

I m still using Thinkwell with my dd next yr. She hates science. And has only taken chem and physics. I am not worried about it. She is a strong student and I think she will be fine.

[Sweet Home Alabama]

8, are you using anything else with Thinkwell? I can't depend on using the online version. This is one reason that I'm trying to pair it with something else.

[Garga]

Maybe go through this thread: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/468303-homeschool-high-school-biology/

 

...and pick one of the easier level biology courses to do with Thinkwell? The first option is listed as possibly jr level bio.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Garga

[8filltheheart]

8, are you using anything else with Thinkwell? I can't depend on using the online version. This is one reason that I'm trying to pair it with something else.

No, just labs. But she will be doing the online version. She did Thinkwell cal earlier this yr and really like the format. She will also be using their Econ and gov't courses.

[Garga]

I just spent 10 solid hours figuring out biology for my son this past weekend. This weekend was NOT a break for me. Ugh. I need a day off after 10 hours of research.

 

I went with CK12 biology, following the Guest Hollow schedule, using the Illustrated Guide to Home Biology Experiments, with the lab kit and a microscope, and reading Hoagland's "Exploring the Way Life Works; The Science of Biology" on the side. Plus we'll probably read a few of the books suggested by Guest Hollow. I'm on the fence with microscopes. I like the one that is $60 more than the other one, but the money is adding up fast. Also, another $60 will get me the slides to go along with the lab kit. Should I spend the extra $120 for the slides and better microscope? Or save the cash?

 

I don't know why I'm telling you all that...other than I've been in Biology Land so much these past few days that I feel a strange compulsion to tell everyone about my choices. :). And also, I can totally commiserate with thinking you've found the answer, only to realize that maybe you're right back at square one or that you're only 1/2 way there.

 

I told DH that researching what to do for each subject is like trying to buy a car, a refrigerator, a washing maching, a sump pump, a water heater, and a house...all in about 2 month's time. So much research! So many decisions!

Edited April 18, 2016 by Garga

[cintinative]

On 4/18/2016 at 11:41 AM, Garga said:

 

I went with CK12 biology, following the Guest Hollow schedule, using the Illustrated Guide to Home Biology Experiments, with the lab kit and a microscope, and reading Hoagland's "Exploring the Way Life Works; The Science of Biology" on the side. Plus we'll probably read a few of the books suggested by Guest Hollow. I'm on the fence with microscopes. I like the one that is $60 more than the other one, but the money is adding up fast. Also, another $60 will get me the slides to go along with the lab kit. Should I spend the extra $120 for the slides and better microscope? Or save the cash?

 

 

@Garga do you mind reporting how this went, especially the Illustrated Guide to Home biology experiments?

[gstharr]

On 4/18/2016 at 8:03 AM, Mom22ns said:

 

Thinkwell's regular biology is COLLEGE level, not high school. It includes MORE than the AP Biology. The only thing left out are the practice quizes for the AP Exam. Miller-Levine and Thinkwell do not cover the same information. Dd did both and found Thinkwell challenging after M/L.

Agree.  Just found this out about AP Chemistry.  Thinkwell high school honors chemistry is the same as its college chemistry.  Tw's AP chemistry is college/honors chemistry without the sections not tested on the AP exam.  

[Garga]

nm

Edited October 22, 2019 by Garga

[Garga]

21 hours ago, cintinative said:

 

@Garga do you mind reporting how this went, especially the Illustrated Guide to Home biology experiments?

First I'll give you a bunch of general information about what I used as a text and some links to things:  I'm not sure whether or not the links still work, as I'm just cutting and pasting from 4 year old notes:

Ck-12 text online: : http://www.ck12.org/book/CK-12-Biology/
Ck-12 text and teacher guide and worksheets: http://www.ck12.org/search/?q=flexbooks&subject=biology&source=ck12
Guest Hollow text online: http://guesthollow.com/biology/textbook-table-of-contents/
Guest Hollow lab planner/schedule: http://www.guesthollow.com/homeschool/science/biology/biology_lab_planner.html
Guest Hollow schedule: http://www.guesthollow.com/homeschool/science/biology/biology_schedule_landing.html
Illustrated Guide to Home Biology Experiments: http://www.thehomescientist.com/manuals/Illustrated_Guide_to_Home_Biology_Experiments.pdf
Printable lab sheets: http://www.donnayoung.org/science/labsheets.htm
More printable lab sheets: http://www.guesthollow.com/homeschool/science/biology/biology_printables.html

Note that you can get the CK12 text as it's written, but you can also use the Guest Hollow version where the Guest Hollow lady has added her own links or changed things around a bit to help students better understand.  I mostly followed only the CK12 version, but for some of the trickier chapters, I'd look over the Guest Hollow version and use some of her links/wording.

I printed out the CK12 text and worksheets/quizzes/tests.  I took it all somewhere and had it printed in one day and it was a HUGE amount of paper.  I also printed out the answer sheets for the teacher.

I didn't entirely follow the Guest Hollow schedule, because she did not do the anatomy portion of the text, as she teaches anatomy as its own class in another year.  So, I had to move faster than she did.

There is a TON of vocabulary for biology, so my dh made flashcards of the vocab every week using this:  cram.com.  My son would review the chapter's vocab every day.

These were the only two books I used to supplement as I discovered that year just how much my son hates reading.  🙂   So, I didn't make him read a bunch of extra stuff.  If he'd loved reading, then I would have, but since he didn't it was just these two simple books:
Gregor Mendel: The friar who grew peas. 
The cartoon guide to genetics 

If he'd have liked reading, I'd have added a book about Henrietta Lacks and a book called "Enslaved by Ducks" to the roster.

Somewhere along the line, I think I contacted the Guest Hollow person and she warned me that Chapter 4.2 and 4.3 are hard chapters and a lot of people struggle with these.  We did as well. I think I used the Guest Hollow text for those chapters and any others that stumped us.  

 

NOTE:  I hadn't done biology in 26 years, and I earned a C+ in the class in school those 26 years ago.  I had hoped that my student would be able to read the chapter and comprehend what he was reading pretty much on his own.  Nope.  He was just 14 years old and not ready for that level of autonomy with bio yet. I needed to sit right there with him talking over the material and presenting it the way a teacher does. I ended up spending an hour every night pre-reading the material to be sure I understood it before presenting it to him the following day.  Some nights I struggled to understand the material and spent longer.  

Overall, I don't think this curric was better or worse than something else.  Either way, I'd have had to pre-study the material and present it to the student.  It was pretty general bio stuff and some was easy and some was tricky.

I found out 3 years after my son took Bio, that he has slow processing speed.  Well...i knew it all along, but it was officially diagnosed then.  It always took him 2 hours each day to have the material presented, for him to read it on his own, then do any worksheets or quizzes/test I gave him.  Labs were done on a separate day and they also always seemed to take 2 hours to complete.  I'm not sure how long it would take someone who doesn't have slow processing speed.

See the next post for thoughts about the Illustrated Guide labs.

 

[Garga]

On 10/21/2019 at 6:52 PM, cintinative said:

 

@Garga do you mind reporting how this went, especially the Illustrated Guide to Home biology experiments?

I'm looking in my notes and will cut and paste random things that might be of use to you.

Overall, I really liked the book.  I liked the labs.  Note:  They would have a mini lesson before the lab sort of outlining the topic.  I did not have my son read those, as it already took him 2 hours just to do the lab.  Adding more reading on a lab day would have been too much.  I would pre-read anything about the lab and if it was important I'd highlight it and go over it with my son.  

We set up a nice spot in my ugly cinder-block wall basement with a light, a microscope, a bunch of safety equipment and lab coats.  We took the labs very seriously and the majority of the ones we did were successful.  They all have a serious tone to them, so it was very different from when my son was younger and we did easy little labs for the younger years.  These required care and time to complete.  

 

 

Chart of supplies needed each week for labs:  http://www.guesthollow.com/homeschool/science/biology/biology_lab_planner.html 
Chart of which lab goes to which chapter in Ck12: http://www.thehomescientist.com/kits/BK01/CK-12-correlation.pdf 
 
If have trouble with the microscope labs, here are tips, especially looking for protists: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/323969-biology-labs-aaarggghhh/

Here is a list of the labs we did.  I'm not sure what I was doing when I wrote this up.  For some reason, I was writing up the objectives for each lab.  I think I was looking to the future and thinking that if a college wanted to know what labs we did, I'd have a list of them and I'd have our "objectives" so that I'd know why we were doing the lab and what skill or topic the lab covered:  

All labs came from the Illustrated Guide to Home Biology Experiments, All Lab No Lecture
Link to purchase the book: http://www.thehomescientist.com/biology.html
Link to see the entire book in free pdf form: 
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjV7JObxpfRAhWf0YMKHXXTADcQFggaMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thehomescientist.com%2Fmanuals%2FIllustrated_Guide_to_Home_Biology_Experiments.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGu9G9zsnerum251lrJTb3IklT-uw&bvm=bv.142059868,d.amc

Microscope:

Parco LTM-800 series 

Lab Supplies:

The following kit was purchased with the bacteria culture.  
BK01A-B Biology Kit + BC03 Bacteria Culture, $216

Click on the link to see the chemicals and supplies that came with the kit.  
http://www.thehomescientist.com/kits/BK01/bk01-main.html

The microtome was made using this website as the model:
http://www.microscope-microscope.org/activities/school/microtome.htm
The microtome worked and we were able to get shavings of carrots for our microscope

As well as the supplies in the lab kit, the lab was supplied with the following supplies for safety: 

Eye wash station
Vinegar
Baking Soda
Nitrile gloves
Eye protection
Face mask 
Fire extinguisher
Telephone

 
LABS

1.  Lab: Safety

Our labs included some strong acids and bases where proper handling is critical in preventing things like blindness or burn injuries.

For every lab, these are the lab rules:

Point mouths of test tubes away from people when adding chemicals
Read MSDS for chemicals before using
Never work alone
Never carry open chemicals while walking around
Never combine chemicals arbitrarily
Wear long pants
Wear close-toed shoes
Wear lab coats
No eating
All labs are completed within 4 feet of a sink
Work area cleaned after each lab
When working with any chemicals eye protection and gloves must be worn
Some labs required face masks

Lab time is to be taken seriously.  No horsing around during labs.

2.  Lab I-1: Using a Microscope

Objective:

How to use a microscope: the names for all the parts, techniques to avoid breaking microscope slides, becoming comfortable handling all the moving parts of the microscope.

3.  Lab I-2 (1,2,3,4): Mounting Specimens

Objective:  

As much of biology involves observing samples under a microscope, this lab teaches how to prepare a specimen for microscope observation in four different ways:

Wet Mount
Smear Mount, including using a flame to heat fix
Hanging Drop Mount
Sectional Mount, using our homemade microtome for the cross-section
Using immersion oil

4.  Lab I-3 (1): Staining

Objective: 

To learn how to stain specimens for observation under a microscope slide.  
To demonstrate that staining allows different aspects of the specimen to be visible.

5. Lab II-1: Winogradsky Column

Objective:

To produce a mixed bacterial culture and observe the different types of bacteria that thrive in different microenvironments within the columns.  

To observe how different organisms occupy different ecological niches, according to how they obtain carbon and energy.

Results: 

A satisfying lab where the columns did display levels of orange, green, and purple bacteria growth, exactly as expected.

6.  LAB III-1 (2): Acids, Bases, and Buffers

Objective: 

Observe the effect of concentration on pH by diluting the acid and base and observing the colors on a ph strip.

7.  Lab III-2 (3): Investigating Lipids

Objective:

Test the solubility of lipids in water and isopropanol
Use a grease-spot test to detect lipids
Investigate the effect of Sudan III stain on lipids

To see some ways that scientists can tell what is in our foods.

8.  Lab III-4: Coacervates

Objective: 

That coacervates form spontaneously in mixtures of proteins and carbohydrates at specific pH values.  To observe them form and to observe their cell membranes.

This lab demonstrates the observations that lead scientists to try to explain how life first formed on Earth.

Results:  We were successful in seeing the coacervates form with very thick membranes.  

9.  Lab III-5: Extracting, Isolating, and Visualizing DNA

Objective: 

To extract and isolate DNA from a beef liver and to observe it under a microscope.

Results:  We were successful in seeing a milky, stringy substance in our test tube.  Gathering it up to place on the microscope was a challenge as it was slippery, but we got a little bit out of the tube.

10.  Lab IV-1 (1,2):  Chlorophyll and Photosynthesis

Objective:

Observe carbon dioxide uptake 
Determine the effect of light intensity on photosynthesis

Results:

This was another satisfying lab where we could see the bromothymol blue turned from yellow to blue, indicating that the plant was uptaking carbon dioxide and releasing oxygen during photosynthesis.  The speed of the process was affected by the levels of light the plant was exposed to.

11.  Lab IV-3:  Investigating Cell Division

Objective:  to view slides showing the stages of plant and animal mitosis.  This lab was completed online, being that it seemed excessive to purchase slides showing mitosis when the exact same slides could be viewed on a much larger computer screen.

Result:

Our text showed illustrations of mitosis, but seeing the slides of actual mitosis was of great interest to Logan.  He was impressed.

12.  Lab V-2:  Observing the Effect of Rhizobia on Plant Growth

Objective:

To observe the effect of rhizobia on plant growth.  To observe that the plant with rhizobia will grow more lush than one without.  

Results:  

We prepared this lab as directed, but attempted it in December.  Though the plants were placed in constant sunlight, it was not warm enough for our beans to grow.  The lesson learned was that nature has requirements that must be met and cannot be forced to act without those requirements being met.

13. Lab V-3 (1,2,3): Air Pollution Testing

Objective:

Build particle traps, position and expose the particle traps to the air, count any particles that were trapped, making the assumption that the particles are some sort of “pollution.”  

To get a feel for what it’s like to be a scientist leaving the lab and going into the world to gather what is needed for study.

Results:

As suspected, our outdoor traps gathered few particles.  The indoor trap in a room with a recently cleaned litter box gathered the most particles.

But most important:  One of the outdoor traps at a local park, was eaten by a dog.  The dog saw our plastic lid with the exposed microscope slide; took the lid in its mouth, flinging the slide somewhere into the brush; and then chewed up the lid.  By the time we arrived back at the park, all that was left was the half-eaten lid and an apologetic dog owner.  The slide was lost.

Sometimes in biology, organisms will impede the scientist and the scientist can honestly say, “The dog ate my homework.”

14. Lab V-4 (1,2,3,4): Soil and Water Pollution Testing

Objective:

That scientists must get out of the lab to gather specimens, then bring them back and perform tests on them.
That scientists actually use tests much like what we used to test for pollution in soil and water.
How to create our own boron concentration comparisons to use against our gathered samples.

15. Lab VI-1:  Exploring Mendelian Genetics

Objective:

To test human subjects for the genetically inherited ability to taste phenylthiocarbamide.
How to keep the goal of the test from the subjects.  
How to keep the results of the tests 100% private.

16. Lab VII-1: Observing Specialized Eukaryotic Cells
Objective:

To prepare wet mounts of eukaryotic cell specimens (onion skin, Elodea leaf) and to observe their similarities and differences.

ADD VIII-1 AND IX-1---THEY’LL BE #S 17 AND 18
 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2019 by Garga

[Garga]

I've thrown a ton of information at you, but I have to run out the door so I just scooped it all up in a copy and paste.  I hope it makes sense.  If you have a more specific question, please ask.  I have to dash away right now. 🙂

[cintinative]

Thank you @Garga !! this is super helpful.