Sources for good scholarly nonfiction

[domestic_engineer]

In the teacher's manual for Caesar's English I (Classical Ed), Michael Clay Thompson says “Caesar's English I, CEE is intentionally designed to promote nonfiction reading ... When I say that students should read good nonfiction, I mean scholarly articles and books, not textbooks or .com anonymous websites. You must read the kind of language you will be asked to write. We must require students to read the kind of language we expect on research papers and scholarly essays. â€

 

I really like this philosophy; it seems to align with Charlotte Mason's philosophy.  However, I'm not sure how to implement it ... or rather what would be considered good, scholarly nonfiction to give to our children.  I this this would rule out the DK style books and any other nonfiction that's "chunked" out rather than true paragraphs or essay format.  Would it mean strewing about Smithsonian or National Geographic or Nature magazines?

 

Any help or insight?

[maize]

I used to read Scientific American in highschool, I think that was good scholarly writing but not so esoteric a teenager couldn´t understand.

[wintermom]

For children, any literature that gets them interested in the topic and they can understand is a bonus. I could care less whether it's "scholarly" writing style, as long as the information isn't false. When they hit college/university they need to be able to read and understand scientific jargon. As a grad student I learned to write my thesis and journal articles very well in the language required. The really tough part was to break out of that shell and get back to writing in a way that most people could understand and wanted to read. I laugh at some of the student newspaper articles I submitted to my editor, knowing full well that the language was completely inappropriate for a newspaper, but being unable to write "normally" anymore. Later I had grad students have exactly the same problem when they were submitting a report for my professional association, and trying to get them to stop writing in the scientific journal style. 

Edited April 11, 2016 by wintermom

[domestic_engineer]

For children, any literature that gets them interested in the topic and they can understand is a bonus. I could care less whether it's "scholarly" writing style, as long as the information isn't false. When they hit college/university they need to be able to read and understand scientific jargon. As a grad student I learned to write my thesis and journal articles very well in the language required. The really tough part was to break out of that shell and get back to writing in a way that most people could understand and wanted to read. I laugh at some of the student newspaper articles I submitted to my editor, knowing full well that the language was completely inappropriate for a newspaper, but being unable to write "normally" anymore. Later I had grad students have exactly the same problem when they were submitting a report for my professional association, and trying to get them to stop writing in the scientific journal style. 

So to clarify, you wouldn't guide your child to any specific style of nonfiction writing - just whatever interests him?

 

I think you have a point that the scholarly style can be picked up when you need it, and I think many grad students have done this.  But can we prepare our children ahead of time to face this challenge?  Can it be as straightforward as providing them a feast of good scholarly works to read  .... just as Charlotte Mason wants us to provide a feast of good literature?  What kind of writing should we be teaching and expecting from our students as the end goal of our educating them? 

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Yes to magazine strewing. A scholarly magazine in a field of interest might be a good starting place. Maybe take the child to a library or bookstore that has a large selection of magazines and journals to see what draws him or her the most. Magazines have been huge here since my dd was young. 

 

Depending on the age of the child, Cricket magazines might be a good place to start.

http://shop.cricketmedia.com/

 

Autobiographies in a field of interest are another possibility. My dd loved the books of James Herriot and Gerald Durrell when she was younger. Over the years she has spent countless hours with books written by scientists. 

 

DD is in high school and picks out most of her reading material now, but I am still strewing books and magazines.  ;)  It's a habit I can't seem to break. 

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Just realized you were discussing Caesar's English 1. I was thinking back to earlier MCT levels when I wrote my post. The Cricket magazines would most likely not what you are looking for at this point. Magazines such as the ones you mentioned would probably be more appropriate.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Woodland Mist Academy

[Farrar]

When you're talking about elementary and middle schoolers, I think steering them toward "scholarly" writing is a load of malarky. How silly. I think there's some benefit in looking for good writing and in having kids practice reading narrative works instead of these blurby DK style things. However, the blurby stuff has a purpose too in terms of getting kids interested and hooked as well as for those very first research papers in upper elementary and middle school. Sometimes those are the most accessible sources. They have a role.

 

I agree with others that magazines like National Geographic and Scientific American are good for upper middle and high schoolers to get them reading more nonfiction. But I think the biggest thing is to get kids understanding before they delve into anything truly "scholarly." The more broad and informed their reading in general, the more prepared they'll be to tackle actual academic writing when it's time.

[wintermom]

So to clarify, you wouldn't guide your child to any specific style of nonfiction writing - just whatever interests him?

 

I think you have a point that the scholarly style can be picked up when you need it, and I think many grad students have done this.  But can we prepare our children ahead of time to face this challenge?  Can it be as straightforward as providing them a feast of good scholarly works to read  .... just as Charlotte Mason wants us to provide a feast of good literature?  What kind of writing should we be teaching and expecting from our students as the end goal of our educating them? 

 

I have been guiding my dc to read non-fiction science, history and biography books that appeal to their ages and interests. There are masses of really neat stuff available on library book shelves. I let them pick, I bring some stuff into the house that is good quality, but "scholarly writing style" has never been something on my radar for elementary to middle school. 

 

Fiction is another matter, and this is where I've been a lot more choosy in what my dc read, though the boys are loving Garfield cartoons and joke books. There is definitely a place for reading for laughs, as long as they are also exposed to excellent literature.

 

As far as learning to write using various styles, this develops with time and experience. By the time they are in high school, they should have some experience writing all types of documents; essays, poetry, creative writing, reports on science experiments, resume and cover letter, business letter, newspaper article, advertisement, etc.  I lean more towards clear and understandable writing which is appropriate for the audience, than scholarly (however that could be defined).  My dh's uncle is a Philosopy prof at Purdue, and his well-written, "scholarly" Christmas card letters are nearly impossible to read, dry as hell, and sound so arrogant that I'd never bother reading them if he wasn't such a nice man. 

Edited April 11, 2016 by wintermom

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I forgot to mention that there are many good narrative style science books for middle school students. These were a good supplement to the textbooks we used. We always had two streams going -- one was more WTM and one was more CM. They are both in the classical realm, so it worked well

 

As always, it depends on the student and family, but that MCT passage (or a similar one) resonated with me when I read it years ago. It helped shape some of what we did. No regrets here.

[Dmmetler]

When you find a good science writer, check and see if they also blog. Many do, and blog about the things that aren't picked up for the magazine but interest them. One of DD's science writing mentors, who has encouraged her to blog, but blog with documentation and support, is also the person who writes herpetology articles for Scientific American. For every one article he writes that SciAm buys, there are a hundred that he writes that they either post on their blog, or refuse outright that end up on his personal blog. And they're still really good examples of non-fiction writing. It is only slightly less difficult to get publishes as a science writer in print periodicals than it is to get published in a print journal. And just as many scientists are going to digital publication, many science writers are as well, at least for that one that they found fascinating, but didn't fit the theme of this month's magazine, and would be old news by three months down the road, when they might have a slot for it.

[daijobu]

National Geographic

NY Times

New Yorker Magazine

Atlantic Monthly Magazine

[Bluegoat]

I don't tend to think this is really what CM was talking about.  Scholarly articles aren't textbooks, it is true, but they also are generally not suitable until at least high school and often not then.  They tend to depend on the reader having some specialized knowledge of the subject already.  People who would be reading textbooks on a subject aren't normally going to be in the same group as those reading scholarly articles.  By the time people are expert enough to read at that level, Mason would have said that narrative approaches were no longer so necessary, the individual has the contextual knowledge to make use of more fragmented types of information. (Though it might not be so enjoyable to read.)

 

I honestly would not consider Scientific American scholarly, it is popular.  It did used to be popular articles written by real experts, so a nice compromise, but it's quality these days is not great.

 

I think too that scholarly writing can be picked up as needed by someone who can write well at a more popular level.  I don't mean informal by popular - there is more formal popular writing as well. 

 

I'd also say that there is a lot of academic writing that is not very good or is quite flawed, even though the content may be excellent.  When I taught military writing, there were certain follies that were common in people who were used to university writing.

 

 

[Woodland Mist Academy]

I took the word scholarly in a broader sense. Sort of the opposite of twaddle. Even with twaddle we're dealing with semantics. Everyone will have a different opinion of exactly what twaddle is and whether or not it's of value.

 

So my take home from the passage might not have been what either MCT or CM meant, but nonetheless it it proved valuable to our homeschool.

 

What examples of writing do I want to set before my child? I remember asking myself that question frequently.

 

For me, what was important about CM was not that I understood exactly what she meant and followed everything she suggested, but rather the thoughts and plans that sprung up whenever I read her books.

[domestic_engineer]

OP here.  I just wanted to say thanks to everyone for their responses.  With all the current events in the news these days, it has been encouraging to me to read a variety of opinions engaging in respectful discourse.  Everybody's ideas have definitely helped me to chew on this matter and think more deeply about the topic.

 

Perhaps I erred in referring to CM and should have said that it might be in alignment with one of Andrew Pudewa's talk?  Something to the effect of filling their knowledge base full of good things, so that when output is required, it will be similar or influenced by what the goodness that had been deposited.  

 

I agree that DK-style, blurby books have their place in the non-fiction world.  It definitely excites and draws my children in!  But perhaps it's time to stretch ourselves to read some "scholarly" nonfiction.  Each has their time and place (and Christmas cards are not the place for scholarly non-fiction!).

 

Much ado is made of what's considered to be good literature; but I don't know what would be considered reputable sources of good non-fiction ... Hence my question.  Yes, the library shelves should be filled with great non-fiction treasures, but it seems hit-or-miss to find such treasures.  I guess I'm trying to build a book/magazine list of sorts with my question?!?  

[daijobu]

You might check book prize recipients in non fiction categories.  

 

Natl Book Critics Circle Award

 

Pulitzer Prize

 

NY Times Best Books