ELTL for the long haul?

[hands-on-mama]

Anyone here use this long term here yet? I am really loving it so far but have yet to give up doing some grammar worksheets alongside it. I'm really trying to let go and just see how it goes without them. I'm just so wrapped up in this mindset that we need a little of both. I might change my mind when we et to level 3 though. Can anyone soothe my fears on this and tell me that it's okay to let go of those worksheets?? Right now, she is doing GWG level 2 along with ELTL 2.

[TheAttachedMama]

Here is the thing about grammar.....(any grammar program):

 

They repeat the SAME stuff EVERY year....for years.     When you get to ELTL 3 (or any other grammar program) guess what they start with?  Nouns.  Yes, they start with the same stuff all over again.   So if your 7 year old isn't getting everything---that is OK!  You don't have to supplement because it will all be repeated again.   ELTL 2 is just a light introduction.  

 

And this isn't just something with ELTL.   The same thing happens with nearly every grammar program...at least in my limited experience.   FLL 1 starts with like 10 weeks on nouns and works through the rest of the parts of speech.   Then FLL 2 starts with nouns again and works through the rest of the parts of speech....again.   Then FLL 3 starts with nouns again and work through the parts of speech.....again.   Then guess what they re-teach in FLL 4.   The same thing is true with just about every other grammar program on the market.    

 

In fact, lets just say for example you did NOTHING with grammar with your 7 year old.  NOTHING.    Grammar can be picked up very easily by an older child.  If you look at another program made for older kids (like analytical grammar for example)--it starts right there at the beginning as if the child has had zero grammar training.   Everything goes quicker and in more depth, but it assumes no knowledge.   

 

 

So you don't need to supplement.  Supplementing usually just leads to burn out and longer days IMHO.   Whenever you supplement, you have to ask yourself at what expense does this extra time come?    Would your time be better spent having your child listen to a REALLY well written audiobook or read aloud?  Perhaps yes.   Would she be better served running and playing in the fresh air and sunlight.  Perhaps yes.  

 

NOW---all of this was about grammar supplementation.   I honestly cannot speak to the long term effects of ELTL writing results because it is such a new program.   It hasn't been tried and tested yet.   But I have no concerns over the grammar lessons just from looking them over.     They do not need to be supplemented IMHO.  Just keep up with the memory work.  It is easy to forget in the appendix.  

[hands-on-mama]

Yes! I didn't even know about the memory work work at first! We are doing that now! We love ELTL. It has just been hard to let go of my teaching days! Thank you for freeing me. :)

[beth83]

Here is the thing about grammar.....(any grammar program):

 

They repeat the SAME stuff EVERY year....for years. When you get to ELTL 3 (or any other grammar program) guess what they start with? Nouns. Yes, they start with the same stuff all over again. So if your 7 year old isn't getting everything---that is OK! You don't have to supplement because it will all be repeated again. ELTL 2 is just a light introduction.

 

And this isn't just something with ELTL. The same thing happens with nearly every grammar program...at least in my limited experience. FLL 1 starts with like 10 weeks on nouns and works through the rest of the parts of speech. Then FLL 2 starts with nouns again and works through the rest of the parts of speech....again. Then FLL 3 starts with nouns again and work through the parts of speech.....again. Then guess what they re-teach in FLL 4. The same thing is true with just about every other grammar program on the market.

 

In fact, lets just say for example you did NOTHING with grammar with your 7 year old. NOTHING. Grammar can be picked up very easily by an older child. If you look at another program made for older kids (like analytical grammar for example)--it starts right there at the beginning as if the child has had zero grammar training. Everything goes quicker and in more depth, but it assumes no knowledge.

 

 

So you don't need to supplement. Supplementing usually just leads to burn out and longer days IMHO. Whenever you supplement, you have to ask yourself at what expense does this extra time come? Would your time be better spent having your child listen to a REALLY well written audiobook or read aloud? Perhaps yes. Would she be better served running and playing in the fresh air and sunlight. Perhaps yes.

 

NOW---all of this was about grammar supplementation. I honestly cannot speak to the long term effects of ELTL writing results because it is such a new program. It hasn't been tried and tested yet. But I have no concerns over the grammar lessons just from looking them over. They do not need to be supplemented IMHO. Just keep up with the memory work. It is easy to forget in the appendix.

I needed to be reminded of this. Thank you!

[TX Pilgrim]

We have been using ELTL for 3 years now.  We have had some additional memory work - but as described above - it is all the same thing regardless of the program.  However, my son really is getting the grammar (he is in a co-op class and his teacher says he gets it).  

 

I totally agree with not bogging down your child with extra worksheets.  Really, grammar comes into play when you can apply it and that is a skill that kids can't really do well until a bit later - 9 or 10. That is why some CM programs don't do grammar AT ALL until that age.  How many times do you need to hear the definition of a noun?  Why not just wait until they are old enough to learn it and apply it? 

 

I do like ELTL though because it is gentle, consistent and you can choose how much emphasis you want to put on aspects like grammar.  You can just breeze through the definitions as exposure, you can memorize the definitions or you can do those two and start applying some of the concepts to the sentences she includes for practice (starting in level 2).  So, pick your comfort level (or your child's ability level).  If they get it - why do they need to do 15 sentences?  If they don't, she does have some extra practice sheets or you can just use sentences in real life to practice more.  Sometimes more practice will just cause frustration because they just aren't able to do that level of abstract thinking yet - which is fine - just wait.  

 

ELTL 3 does a great job of introducing diagramming - but again just one or two sentences a lesson.  Slow and steady wins the race. 

 

 

[Holly]

This is our first year with ELTL, but I'm using 3 levels, so I think that counts for something.   :lol:  I picked up levels 1 & 3 for next year so I've gotten a good look at all 5 levels.  The grammar in 4 & 5 really picks up.  You could easily start in either of these two levels without having had any grammar...My older two had very little before this year.  My oldest had only done R&S 2 and Grammar-Land.  I do think the memory work for grammar is essential to the program, and many people seem to leave it out.  So far the only thing I think needs to be added is more writing.  I really like her writing lessons, but I wish there were more.  DD will be using WWS 1 next year and my younger two will be starting Writing Strands.  

Edited March 21, 2016 by Holly

[hands-on-mama]

This is our first year with ELTL, but I'm using 3 levels, so I think that counts for something.   :lol:  I picked up levels 1 & 3 for next year so I've gotten a good look at all 5 levels.  The grammar in 4 & 5 really picks up.  You could easily start in either of these two levels without having had any grammar...My older two had very little before this year.  My oldest had only done R&S 2 and Grammar-Land.  I do think the memory work for grammar is essential to the program, and many people seem to leave it out.  So far the only thing I think needs to be added is more writing.  I really like her writing lessons, but I wish there were more.  DD will be using WWS 1 next year and my younger two will be starting Writing Strands.  

 

How old are your two that will be doing Writing Strands? I do somewhat worry about that. I have a feeling our co-op will be offering Writing and Rhetoric this next year though for my oldest daughter's age.

[Holly]

They will be in 4th and 6th.  I plan on starting both in WS 3 since I already have it. I figure they will go at their own pace. I've kept writing very informal (a la Charlotte Mason) and am now regretting it.  This is the first writing program to "click" with my DD and I wish we'd tried more classical methods earlier for her.  She'll be using WWS and the lessons seem very similar, but there is much more help and many more lessons with WWS.  

Edited March 22, 2016 by Holly

[Lori D.]

Here is the thing about grammar.....(any grammar program):

 

... They repeat the SAME stuff EVERY year....for years...... In fact, lets just say for example you did NOTHING with grammar with your 7 year old.  NOTHING. Grammar can be picked up very easily by an older child.  If you look at another program made for older kids (like analytical grammar for example)--it starts right there at the beginning as if the child has had zero grammar training.   Everything goes quicker and in more depth, but it assumes no knowledge...

 

:iagree: Just side tracking for a moment to totally agree with this, and to add: 

This is why MANY families do NO formal Grammar at all until 3rd... or 4th... or even 5th grade. Since there is SO much repetition within Grammar programs, AND there is so much overlap in some areas of Writing and Grammar, it is absolutely not a problem to wait on formal Grammar.

 

And, this is just from what I've seen of early elementary-aged children -- waiting to start formal Grammar until they are older often works BETTER and they learn faster, because Grammar is a more abstract and analytical type of subject, and those areas of the brain that process those skills don't typically start to mature until the student is older. 

 

Just think of all the time -- not to mention potential wailing and gnashing of teeth ;) -- that might be saved in the early elementary grades by waiting to start formal Grammar instruction... It frees up time and mental energy to explore other subject areas, or provides extra time to focus on a weak area in a core subject. Just a thought! :)

Edited March 22, 2016 by Lori D.

[Coco_Clark]

I've only used 1-3, just purchased 4. I think the grammar is perfect. It repeats every year (or at least did in 2 and 3) and like others have said, if you are doing the memory work you should be pretty solid.

 

I worry about if/when I need to supplement ELTL but not in grammar! My concerns are all writing, lol.

[hands-on-mama]

I've only used 1-3, just purchased 4. I think the grammar is perfect. It repeats every year (or at least did in 2 and 3) and like others have said, if you are doing the memory work you should be pretty solid.

 

I worry about if/when I need to supplement ELTL but not in grammar! My concerns are all writing, lol.

 

 

I think my fears are soothed on the grammar. I am now panicking about the writing.

[silver]

I think my fears are soothed on the grammar. I am now panicking about the writing.

 

If you write across the curriculum, you should be fine. Let ELTL introduce something (such as narrations or summaries) and once it's tackled there, have your student do it in science and/or history.

[Aurelia]

I wouldn't panic. We're doing ELTL and WWS1 because DD is older, but it's not really necessary if you are doing it on grade level and having the student provide narrations in the other subjects. 

 

If you like, you can use Treasured Conversations as a supplement. It has some grammar work in the beginning, but in the context of writing, and covers writing in a CM-ish way. It's definitely my favorite writing program for the mid-to-upper elementary set, and we've tried quite a few programs (W&R, WWE, CTT, EIW, and others I'm sure I've forgotten). 

[hands-on-mama]

I will look at Treasured Conversations! I think we will stay the course for 3rd grade. We will be using Wayfarer's as well and she has narration assignments all through it.