Pros and Cons of Classical Conversations?

[kentuckymom]

So now that I've gone public about our plans to homeschool Squirrelboy for 6th grade, a good friend of mine, who is in her 3rd year of homeschooling her kids, is doing her utmost to try to convince me that we want to do Classical Conversations. Their first year they used MFW and didn't really like it. Their second year they used Classical Conversations materials but didn't belong to a group. This year they're in a CC group and apparently it's the best thing ever. She even posted an article to my timeline today about how great CC is for dyslexic students (my son is dyslexic).  I'm not super excited about the idea. I do know there are two groups nearby, though I don't know if either group has space. It sounds like a good program, just not what I think I'm looking for. A major attraction of homeschooling for me is that I get to be the main decision maker regarding what my son learns and I can individualize it to his needs and preferences. I feel like a program like CC would take that away from me. However, I'd still like to hear about other peoples' experiences.

 

 

If you love CC, why do you love it?

 

If you tried it and didn't like it, what didn't you like about it?

 

Thanks for your help!

 

Oh, and they live in another state, so it's not an issue of her wanting me to join their group. It's purely about the program.

[Doodlebug]

Go visit a campus and see what it's like.

 

Just from the info you shared, though, I would spend the next school year figuring out exactly what you all need.  

 

I chose CC initially because I have an only child... Weekly commitments helped us make friends.  We kept going because I found memory work was awesome for a specific period of time in our homeschool.  We left Foundations last year to pursue Essentials... love it.  However, had I not had a need that CC filled, it wouldn't have been a priority for us.  

 

Sounds like you know what part of homeschooling you're going to enjoy.  I wouldn't add activities that detract from that... 

 

ETA: repetitive sentence fixed!

Edited March 18, 2016 by Doodlebug

[EKT]

I haven't done it myself, but my best friend has done it for years and she loves it. (I feel I know a lot about it, since we talk homeschool stuff constantly.) She loves the structure and that it keeps her on track. I knew it wasn't for me, though, because I just felt it was too "bossy." Even though it only meets one day per week, you have to do all this other work at home to keep up with it and prepare for that one day, that next class. So, for me, I knew it would dictate the rest of my homeschool in a way that wouldn't work for us. I treasure our academic freedom too much (rabbit trails and all that). Instead, since I feel I've got the academics covered at home, we ended up going with a co-op that was mostly just for fun and friendships. 

 

But, like I said, my friend LOVES CC. I think it just depends on how much structure you want and what your overall goals are. Academically, it seems very strong, so I know it's a great help to many people!

Edited March 18, 2016 by EKT

[HilJoy14]

Last year was our first year homeschooling (kids in 3rd/4th).  I joined CC because it gave me a starting point.  I didn't feel like it controlled my curriculum at all.  BUT, I chose to study the same things they were studying.  So if the memory sentence was about the Pilgrims, that's what we studied that week.  I enjoyed that it gave me a jumping-off point, but I controlled where we went with it (or even if we did anything with it).  My older daughter was in Essentials, and I LOVED it.  Great support for writing (not my strong suit - I'm a math person).  And I LOVE grammar, and that was really in-depth.  So we enjoyed it all, more or less.

 

The hardest thing for me was being there all day once a week.  I work from home, so being gone all day once every week was a huge drain on me, personally.  But it was great for making friends.

 

That being said, we decided not to join CC this year.  (We moved across the country this summer, so it would have been a new group, not going back to the same one with all our friends.)  And I'm glad about that, too.  We miss the friendships, but I've enjoyed being more in control of our curriculum this year (and wasn't as scared about it, since it's our second year homeschooling).  I do miss the memory work - I loved hearing the kids memorize so many facts last year! 

 

I do think that visiting a local group would help you a lot with making your decision.  And you'd need to do that soon, since they end in April or May?

[Paula in MS]

We were in CC for foundations but not challenge.   It is really a way to connect you to a group of people.  Because it is really a memory work program, the curriculum that you use is entirely up to you.  No one is dictating any of that to you whatsoever in the foundations program.  I didn't alter my curriculum choices whatsoever.

[...................]

I am so not into the academic side of it...

 

But there have been many times where I have considered it for the social and community aspect.  My older child is very self directed and meets his social needs easily through several intense outside commitments (swimming year round, coder dojo, robotics club)

 

Now my younger dd is feeling left behind because she misses that her brother isn't as into playing anymore and she doesn't have intense interests that keep her connected to a regular community very well (she doesn't do dance or ballet for example)

 

However, every time I have looked into it, I am just unable to convince me or my dd because once you hit essentials you are pretty tied to their curriculum. Once you hit Challenge you are 100% tied to it.  You COULD use a different math, but not any other subject.  My own particular daughter is creative, artistic and mildly dyslexic and cannot spell.  Traditional school settings are like torture for her, and she absolutely hates grammar memorization and struggles with it. SO she could not really concieve of a worse curriculum for herself as a creative right brained, dyslexic person to go join a straight jacket educational community that is centered around grammar, and memorization!!! This year she told me straight up never to ask her again.  :o)

 

So, I do think that you should visit and really see the books they are using, the type of organization, the type of students, and the type of curriculum.  It could be that you may take him out of the frying pan into the fire.

 

(To be honest I cannot for the life of me figure out why this lady thinks CC would be great for a 5th grade dyslexic.)

 

Do you have other homeschool groups, co-ops, or other social outlets?

 

(PS from one mom of a right brained kid to another, you may have to come to terms with the fact that there are probably no school-ish type situations that would really fit your kid.)

[kentuckymom]

I am so not into the academic side of it...

 

But there have been many times where I have considered it for the social and community aspect.  My older child is very self directed and meets his social needs easily through several intense outside commitments (swimming year round, coder dojo, robotics club)

 

Now my younger dd is feeling left behind because she misses that her brother isn't as into playing anymore and she doesn't have intense interests that keep her connected to a regular community very well (she doesn't do dance or ballet for example)

 

However, every time I have looked into it, I am just unable to convince me or my dd because once you hit essentials you are pretty tied to their curriculum. Once you hit Challenge you are 100% tied to it.  You COULD use a different math, but not any other subject.  My own particular daughter is creative, artistic and mildly dyslexic and cannot spell.  Traditional school settings are like torture for her, and she absolutely hates grammar memorization and struggles with it. SO she could not really concieve of a worse curriculum for herself as a creative right brained, dyslexic person to go join a straight jacket educational community that is centered around grammar, and memorization!!! This year she told me straight up never to ask her again.   :o)

 

So, I do think that you should visit and really see the books they are using, the type of organization, the type of students, and the type of curriculum.  It could be that you may take him out of the frying pan into the fire.

 

(To be honest I cannot for the life of me figure out why this lady thinks CC would be great for a 5th grade dyslexic.)

 

Do you have other homeschool groups, co-ops, or other social outlets?

 

(PS from one mom of a right brained kid to another, you may have to come to terms with the fact that there are probably no school-ish type situations that would really fit your kid.)

 

Thanks for this! I should probably visit a group just to confirm my thoughts, but, yes, though there are a lot of things we like about the elementary school Squirrelboy is currently at, there are also a lot of things about a traditional school setting that are just a bad fit for him. That's precisely why we've decided to pull away from that environment for a few years. I think CC sounds like a lovely idea if you start with it early on and your goal is to give your typical learner a classical Christian homeschool education and be part of a regular community. I don't think it sounds like a great idea for an atypical learner who is just going to be homeschooled for a few years. The article she shared with me did make me think it might have some positives, however. Here's the link in case anyone would like to read it.

 

http://homeschoolingwithdyslexia.com/classical-conversations-dyslexia/

[EmseB]

We didn't end up doing it because of the strict age requirements. My son has an early fall birthday, and I didn't want to invest a lot into the program for him to be "held back" when he got to the upper levels. I don't know if that's a consideration for you, but just thought is throw it out there. One of the reasons we homeschool is for flexibility, and from the outside cc did not look very flexible.

[...................]

That is intersting article! My dd actually is very good at pure rote memorization, chanting songs etc especially if she can learn them through an auditory method. She won the highest award possible at Awana.

 

Essentials is what worries me more. Even though Shurley grammar is based on jingles the student still has to understand and apply grammar rules previously memorized and spend a lot of time doing it... My dd is so extremely creative that she would prefer spending her time writing and reading than memorizing and diagramming. She would do well with formal logic. Maybe your son would too.

 

I can see why these kids can do essentials; I see what your friend is saying.

 

Now the question still remains, does it make sense for your son? For my dd so far every year we thought about it not only hasn't it made sense but it overwhelmed her thinking about being stuck with all that traditional classical learning, with even less time to pursue her creative interests than she does when I am managing her curricula and without an entire day out of the house.

 

However the social aspect is still such a draw that we will continue looking.

Go ahead and visit, with your son if possible. See what he thinks!

 

:)

[Momto4inSoCal]

We are in it this year. There are good points and bad points like everything and you have to figure out if it will work for your family. CC will say that 6th grade and under you only do memory work for history and science and that is the Classical way so if you go by that then yes it is your curriculum. We use it at a supplement to our history and science. We do our own stuff at home. The essentials covers grammar and writing. When I first looked at the grammar I thought it would be too much for my kids but they've learned a lot. We also do analytical grammar on our weeks off. Cc is only 24 weeks so we still have another 12 weeks to do our own thing. I think we could do the memory work just fine at home and get the same academic benifits but they really like being part of a group. It's really pricey compared to other co ops but the co ops I've seen have no academic purpose. If you like the memory work but don't want to be part of the group get the cd. A lot of people do the memory work at home.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Momto4inSoCal

[Mrs Twain]

Calming Tea,

My kids only do Foundations and not Essentials. Essentials is not required. My kids also don't do the Challenge program at all.

 

Pros for us:

 

Weekly 2-3 minute public speaking presentation

Much more memory work than I could accomplish by ourselves at home

Classroom experience (kids get used to raising their hands to answer a question, sit in a chair for an extended period, etc.)

Extra art

Extra general music instruction

More friends and social opportunities

 

I use CC foundations as a supplement to my curriculum. CC has been valuable to fill in certain areas that I was not able to accomplish on our own at home.

[importswim]

We started CC last year and this year I'm a tutor (4 and 5 year olds). I like the memory work. A LOT. I don't like having a full day taken up with having to be somewhere. I don't have either child in my class (as I was the only one willing to do the younger children). I also don't agree with some of the chosen science experiments or the very brief art choices.

 

I know that I could teach the memory work to my own kids in about 15 minutes and reinforce during the week leaving us room to do lots of other things. I also wouldn't have my time taken up with planning for tutoring a class.

 

It WAS super helpful to guide me into being comfortable with hs'ing. It also was helpful in making hs'ing friends as we had just moved to the area. I love the presentation times and my kids love the games that they play in review.

 

We are choosing to do CC at home next year and I am choosing to do the review work as memory work not as a full spine (as some CC'ers do). We will do all of our other subjects plus just memorize the weekly work.

 

I DO plan to get together with 2 other families (non-CC'ers) monthly to do presentations and science experiments. I can sacrifice one day a month, not weekly.

 

 

[lots of little ducklings]

We are finishing our first year as part of a CC Community, although we spent the two previous years doing CC at home.  My only experience to this point is Foundations. 

 

When a group began in our area this year, I was quite hesitant for the same reasons you mentioned.   I wanted to remain in control of my own curriculum, children, and homeschool; and I didn't like the loss of one morning each week, either.  But my eldest was itching for something outside the home, so we tried it.

 

It's been wonderful for us.  I am completely in control, and get to choose how much (or little) to cover of the CC material.  I can cover it in advance of the class if I want, but technically the tutors introduce new material each week, so there's really no "prepping" or homework that is required, except for the weekly presentation.  And that is even flexible; topics are offered for presentations, but not mandated, and children are gently nurtured through the presentations so it is not "scary."  We threw ourselves 100% into CC during weeks 1-18, but this last quarter we've slowed our pace a lot as a result of a lot of upheaval at our house (repairs and renovations).  And it's all been great regardless of how we've chosen to cover the material at home. 

 

My oldest (8 years old) is dyslexic, too.... And honestly, CC has worked beautifully for him.  Which makes sense, actually.  "Reading" is not a component of the program (most people in our group don't even know he struggles to read and can barely spell at all.)  And memory work, while challenging, is FUN at CC.  He does so much better with it than he did during the years we tried CC at home, and it's giving him enormous amounts of content to wrestle with, which he LOVES.  Skills are his challenge, but content has always been his strength (he's a deeply creative thinker and conversationalist);  so CC has played well to that strength, while also exercising his mind through memory work.

 

Soooo.... We are fans.  :-)   We've already registered for CC again next year.  Of course, YMMV.  You will certainly want to see your own community's tutors in action, and, especially since you are just beginning your homeschool journey, certainly don't feel compelled to dive into CC (or anything else) if it doesn't feel like a good fit for you.  You'll grow a lot in this first year, and will have tons of decisions to make.  Just remember that there's no harm in trying things out, but no harm in waiting another year either.  

 

Best wishes!  

 

[Guest2]

I'm not a fan, but if you are interested , I think you would need to meet with the tutor for next year. Although the curriculum is supposed to be the same across the board, some tutors do more writing. One of our tutors "helped" her students by having them write all the math problems , ect. Lots of quick reading in the games designed for memory work, so slower readers or writers had a lot of difficulty. Fifth grade is the last year in the regular program,I think. So the emphasis will be on memory masters. Most of the kids will already know this stuff, as they have been memorizing the same exact stuff for years, so your student might feel a little left out. Hth

Edited March 20, 2016 by Silver Brook

[G5052]

We were in CC for foundations but not challenge.   It is really a way to connect you to a group of people.  Because it is really a memory work program, the curriculum that you use is entirely up to you.  No one is dictating any of that to you whatsoever in the foundations program.  I didn't alter my curriculum choices whatsoever.

 

As I've related before, we were involved for seven year at two different campuses. One campus was more academic with a suburban, affluent group of families. One was more rural and friendly. We enjoyed both for different reasons.

 

No regrets about Foundations and Essentials in our homeschooling journey. Some years we skipped a vacation in order to do it. I also tutored in order to be able to afford it. And even when I barely had enough gas in the tank to get there and back, it was worth it to us. We all have very fond memories and keep in touch with some of the folks we met there.

 

Challenge was more mixed for us, and I'm glad that we pretty much did our own thing for high school.

[kentuckymom]

Thanks for sharing your experiences! I'm leaning towards not jumping into it our first year, but I'll probably visit one of the local groups to get a feel for it.

[ScoutTN]

We thought about it, but decided no because we don't need the community (we have friends and community, both homeschoolers and other),

or the classroom experience and because I would rather outsource things I cannot teach. I am fine teaching all academic subjects during the grammar stage years. I like the curricula we have better than what CC uses. So we chose a (less expensive) tutorial for art and drama. 

(Yes, I know CC does some art, but it is not the same as having it taught by an wonderful artist with a passion for teaching kids and spending 90 minutes of class time every week on it.)

 

I think it is good to get your own feet on the ground and figure out your own homeschooling flavor before jumping into a tutorial. I think many people here join CC for reassurance and so that they don't have to research curricula, make decisions etc. 

 

That said, it works well for many or it wouldn't be so successful!