Do English and Humanities teachers in schools grade papers anymore?

[Michelle in MO]

A little background to this question first; it's not meant to be inflammatory at all.

 

My oldest took an essay test for her AP US History course at the school she's enrolled in. When the teacher returned the test, it was marked 70/100 points (4 essay questions, each being worth 25 points). I could clearly see where my dd missed a number of points on her final essay question, but not on the other three. There were a couple of scribbled words jotted out in the margins, and across one section the teacher wrote "No!" without any further explanation.

 

Dd just took her second essay test for this class yesterday and felt much better about her performance; we have yet to see the results, of course.

 

Yesterday I was talking to our piano teacher, as we usually chat in between lessons. She used to teach music at our local community college, and she said that she gave up on giving essay tests (for courses like music history, etc.) because the students' writing (grammar, punctuation, logical thought, etc.) was so terrible. She said she would have been spending all of her spare time on correcting almost the entire paper for each student.

 

When I was in college, I clearly remember those long, blue-book essay tests. The professors didn't necessarily correct all poor grammar, but they did clearly note where a student had missed a major point that had been covered either in his/her lectures or in the readings. This was at a school of 48,000 students! Of course, my classes were smaller, but somehow the profs still managed to grade essays and papers in a fairly comprehensive fashion.

 

So---what is the norm for schools today? Are English and humanities teachers so busy with just teaching that they don't have time to grade papers anymore? Or, are they so overwhelmed with students' poor writing skills that the task is insurmountable? Is this something I should continue to expect for the future?

 

FWIW, I see tremendous benefit to homeschooling in this area! I think the typical homeschooling mom and dad can do an excellent job grading their own kids' papers! If you have a fair grasp of grammar yourselves, you may possibly be giving your kids a much better idea of what they need to improve in terms of their writing skills.

 

If parents feel overwhelmed with the task of teaching writing to their children, may I make a plug for an online tutor who helped our girls with several progymnasmata tutorials last year? If a parent has the $$, consider this for your children; you may be doing them a better service than some schools:

 

Here is a sample correction by the tutor of a Confirmation/Refutation piece by my oldest:

 

The mystery of the settlers of Roanoke Island and their disappearance is one of the earliest mysteries in American history, and perhaps also the most elusive. Some theorize that they died from starvation and the cold, were killed by a local tribe of Native Americans, or, less chillingly, were simply assimilated into one of the native communities. Nicely “toned down” toward the end of the paragraph. Good use of words and pacing to carry us there.

 

In the early 1580’s, the New World, and more importantly, the prospect of settling the New World, was a subject of great interest to the likes of adventurers such as Sir Walter Raleigh. When he searched for an ideal place to settle along America’s coastline, he discovered that the natives were friendly and gentle, and the land fertile and pleasant. Happy with what they found, the explorers returned to England bearing reports of this great land; they also brought back two Indians from one of the local tribes. Queen Elizabeth, pleased with these reports, gave the adventurers permission to settle there and to name the land Virginia in her honor. Nice backstory—cleanly presented.

 

In 1585, Raleigh’s cousin, Sir Richard Grenville, led seven ships and 109 men, including the two Indians, to Roanoke Island. A man named Ralph Lane was chosen to govern the village while Grenville returned to England for supplies and picked a spot on the north end of the island for the settlement. However, the ships had arrived too late in the season to plant crops, so the settlers were forced to rely on the Native Americans for food. This eventually caused warfare between the groups. When Sir Francis Drake arrived, Not clear when he was supposed to arrive. the men abandoned the colony and left for England; when Grenville returned, he left fifteen of his men there while he looked for more settlers.

 

Later, in 1587, he returned once again, this time bringing colonists consisting of entire families – men, women, and children. There was even Not so surprising, actually. a pregnant woman in the group. This time, Raleigh decided that the Chesapeake Bay area would be a better place to settle. John White, the newly appointed governor of the colony, headed toward that place, but first stopped to see the old, leveled Roanoke settlement. All the men had disappeared, save one, whose body was found – obviously killed by Indians, and the fort was destroyed, though the houses were still standing. Sounds like this was a curiosity visit, not something linked to a sense of responsibility for the fifteen men.

 

On some essays the corrections were much more detailed, as needed. This was one of her better papers. The tutor was very helpful in not only correcting grammar, but keeping the kids focused on thinking logically throughout the paper and transitioning from one thought to the next.

 

At any rate, I'm really wondering---do teachers have time to correct papers anymore?

[HollyinNNV]

I shouldn't be posting, (because I am doing school:glare:), however, I'd like to inject this thought. Correcting essays is a bear! But it is a velociraptor when students have so many grammar/spelling issues. You are in a catch-22. If you mark one grammar error, you almost have to mark them all. Otherwise you get comments like, "If it is incorrect in this paragraph, why was it correct in this one?" Why did you mark it on Holly's paper and not Megan's? It is a massive can of worms.

 

I think the teacher could at least provide a rubric so you know what areas to improve!

 

But, I know this is a huge problem for any teacher that chooses essay exams/projects.

Holly

 

At any rate, I'm really wondering---do teachers have time to correct papers anymore?

[Michelle in MO]

I shouldn't be posting, (because I am doing school:glare:), however, I'd like to inject this thought. Correcting essays is a bear! But it is a velociraptor when students have so many grammar/spelling issues. You are in a catch-22. If you mark one grammar error, you almost have to mark them all. Otherwise you get comments like, "If it is incorrect in this paragraph, why was it correct in this one?" Why did you mark it on Holly's paper and not Megan's? It is a massive can of worms.

 

I think the teacher could at least provide a rubric so you know what areas to improve!

 

But, I know this is a huge problem for any teacher that chooses essay exams/projects.

Holly

 

Not that the teachers should correct every grammar error, because I can see that that would be overwhelming! However, a rubric would be helpful! On this essay test, it would have been helpful if the teacher could have jotted quick notes like, "You missed a key point here of the role of the Jonathan Edwards in describing the Great Awakening" or something to that effect, kwim?

 

You're right---if you grade one spelling/punctuation/grammar error in one paragraph, you almost have to do all of them. I guess my point was more along the lines of the teacher explaining to the students key points that she was looking for in the essay.

[HollyinNNV]

On this essay test, it would have been helpful if the teacher could have jotted quick notes like, "You missed a key point here of the role of the Jonathan Edwards in describing the Great Awakening"

 

 

Well, multiply that comment times however many students are in the class and the time quickly flies by. I'd just do something like

 

Puntuation 10/10

Grammar 5/10

Content 20/25

Structure 10/50

Setence Variety 5/10

 

I think that at the high school age, it puts the ball in their court. "I only got 10 of 50 in structure! What did I do wrong?" If they really can't figure it out, then they can ask.

 

But, to just put a # on a paper is educational malpractice. It is no help. Maybe every once in a while...............but certainly not as a standard practice.

 

Holly

[Michelle in MO]

But, to just put a # on a paper is educational malpractice. It is no help. Maybe every once in a while...............but certainly not as a standard practice.

 

We'll find out more after this next essay test is graded. My dd did talk to the teacher and ask her what points she missed, and the teacher just said, "Well, you didn't really answer the last essay question; otherwise it was no big deal." But, no notations were made as to what exactly she missed on content for the other three questions. A large "No!" was written across one point that she made.

 

Overall, we did not find the teacher's grading to be helpful for my dd. Her grammar and mechanics were fine; she just couldn't understand what points she missed. The large "No!" wasn't very helpful! :glare:

 

Thanks, Holly, for your advice on this. I hope most teachers can at least explain to a student important points they need to emphasize in essays!

[Cedarmom]

When I was in highschool (20 yrs ago :glare:) I was very frustrated with my english papers. There were few, if any notes. The notes said unhelpful things like, needs more organization, good paper. I worked so hard, trying to get an A, then to get a B or C and not know why, was frustrating. I try to give my son specifics on what is required on his paper, and then what things he needs to wrok on. I also have him do rewrites on his paper. I feel (hope) he is actually learning, as opposed to my experience which taught me nothing.

[Michelle in MO]

I try to give my son specifics on what is required on his paper, and then what things he needs to wrok on. I also have him do rewrites on his paper. I feel (hope) he is actually learning, as opposed to my experience which taught me nothing.

 

you're giving your son some worthwhile tools for his future. I do understand the time element in making minute corrections on every paper for a teacher who has 30 (or 100) students, but at a minimum some basic points should be addressed.

 

Essays (both essay tests and essay papers) and other types of papers should be learning tools; the child learns nothing if no specific points (i.e., issues in a US History test) are not addressed.

[Laura K (NC)]

I'm taking classes toward a master's degree, and I just recently finished up the undergrad requirements, so I can give you my impressions as both a recent undergrad and a grad student. Most of my professors assigned essay question tests. They certainly did read them and comment on my answers in the margins. I always look forward to their remarks. As I re-read my essay answers, an occasional error pops out at me, but my teachers don't comment on grammar/syntax errors. In an essay-type test when you're writing furiously and barely able to get the questions answered in time, there just isn't time to go back through and proofread. Facts, though, are scrutinized carefully, as they pertain to the understanding of the material presented in the course.

 

The papers I have turned in are a little different. They generally don't seem to be read as carefully. Some of my professors read very carefully, though, and those are the most helpful kinds of professors. I have one professor now that gave me a paper back 5 months after I turned it in. 5 months! He was out of the country for a period of time, and his office moved and the paper got lost, and he's generally known for being really, really slow. He's one of the most meticulous readers, though, and his comments are (almost) worth the wait.

 

I graded some high school essay papers once in co-op. I enjoyed that work, but I only had 7 kids in my class! I can't imagine being a high school English teacher and having over 100 papers to grade regularly.

[Michelle in MO]

in terms of missing major issues (i.e., on the history essay test) rather than grammar. I do agree that would be almost impossible for an English teacher!

 

Both dd and I found that when we went over her history test, neither one of us could figure out why she had missed points on the first three essay questions. They were basically just marked 22 points, 18 points, 20 points with the red "No!" written across one paragraph. It wasn't very instructive at all.

 

My experience in college was similar to your experience: I found that grading on the essay tests was pretty specific (minus the grammatical corrections, of course) but grades on papers and the justification for those grades was generally minimal.

 

Sounds like your one prof. was a real dear!

[TeacherZee]

My history teacher in High School would only correct our grammar or word usage if we had said something that made it wrong. I once, through poorly chosen words, intimated that all French women post WWI were prostitutes and all children were beggars. Which wasn't what I had meant to say at all. I can understand that they can't correct all grammar but when it changes the meaning of what you are saying (even if they understand what you are really trying to say) I think they should say something.

 

I think that what happened to your dd was very unhelpful. I recently got back a paper in my grad school english lit class that says that I need to work on my conclusion not much more BUT I have a meeting with my professor tomorrow so I will get him to clarify it then. If he can't then I will be annoyed.

[8filltheheart]

When I was in high school, my English teacher marked grammar/mechanic mistakes with comments like 19a which meant we had to go to our grammar handbook, look up the mistake, correct it, and turn it back in. She wrote comments like "poor argument" for content errors. She did it for rough drafts and final copies.

 

Last yr at our ds's private school I didn't find out until near the end of the yr that he only wrote ONE in class PARAGRAPH for English. He had been writing papers, but they had been for other subjects. His English teacher just gave Scantron tests. It irritated me so badly that we changed schools this yr.

[Moni]

>>>>.When I was in college, I clearly remember those long, blue-book essay tests. The professors didn't necessarily correct all poor grammar, but they did clearly note where a student had missed a major point that had been covered either in his/her >>>>>

 

Well, I think it just varies.

 

Some teachers give a "B" grade, and when asked, they just keep repeating, well it's just a "B" quality paper. Vague, no substantiation given.

 

Others do as you explained, give remarks when points are taken off.

 

So I think it varies, it just depends.

 

:seeya:

[Laura K (NC)]

I'm sure children and French women everywhere are grateful for your teacher's correction! :D

 

I've made several typos, especially on message boards, that drastically changed my intent. Forgetting or mistakenly adding a "not" is probably the most common big mistake I make. College papers don't come with "edit" functions, unfortunately! :)

[TeacherZee]

I'm sure children and French women everywhere are grateful for your teacher's correction! :D

 

I've made several typos, especially on message boards, that drastically changed my intent. Forgetting or mistakenly adding a "not" is probably the most common big mistake I make. College papers don't come with "edit" functions, unfortunately! :)

 

:D Yep I am sure :D

 

That was my biggest gaff in that class. Others had far worse ones. The worst one however wasn't one of my classmates or me but someone else in the world who apparently wrote an entire paper on the Cold War, except they wrote it on the Finish Winter War which was undoubtedly cold but part of World War 2 not the Cold War. :tongue_smilie:

[mcconnellboys]

My son was in an honors English class last year in which they wrote only four papers, none of which were ever graded and returned with comments.....

 

We have, unfortunately, found that more and more college level tests are multiple choice, rather than essay. My son has no difficulty with essay questions, but has tremendous difficulty, for some reason, with multiple choice questions! OY!

 

My son is also currently in an AP American history course, and the preparation work done thus far is just abysmal..... I'm going to have to intervene in some way or he's not going to pass that test in spring....

[Michelle in MO]

My son was in an honors English class last year in which they wrote only four papers, none of which were ever graded and returned with comments.....

 

We have, unfortunately, found that more and more college level tests are multiple choice, rather than essay. My son has no difficulty with essay questions, but has tremendous difficulty, for some reason, with multiple choice questions! OY!

 

My son is also currently in an AP American history course, and the preparation work done thus far is just abysmal..... I'm going to have to intervene in some way or he's not going to pass that test in spring....

 

what's involved with your son's AP US History course. My dd is taking one now; in fact, that's what the thrust of my complaint is about: her history teacher didn't do a great job, IMO, of giving explanations for her grading on the essay test.

 

They have to write essay answers to between 2-5 essay questions per week; the tests are essay tests (4 questions each, 25 points apiece). Also, they have a 10-12 pp. research paper due at the end of each semester. I'm trying to get her to decide on her topic and get her going. Kids have a hard time understanding "getting going" on these things.

 

Oops! Can't edit my subject line: should read "I'm interested to know" Sorry!

[mcconnellboys]

Well, they started off with a bang. Over the course of the summer, they had to read Zinn's entire book and summarize each chapter, then prepare about a 1200 word summary of their thoughts on the book. They also had to choose one book from a pretty extensive list to read and write about a 1200 word paper on it. My son chose Profiles in Courage.

 

We have yet to see any grading of these products.

 

They have had about 3 multiple choice tests now. Despite the fact that my son aced the "review" before the last one, he only scored an 80 on the actual test, the second highest grade in the class (highest was an 84). The teacher told them that this was probably the easiest test of the year..... Now, my son has problems with multiple choice tests, but he also tells me that the questions ask for minutae that they never cover in any way: not through their book, not in lecture, etc. So I'm trying to get a feel for just HOW they need to prepare for the test.

 

They also complete an essay assignment during the same time period of the other part of the test, although sometimes they can bring those home to write. He's had no problem with these, in general - but that's according to *this* teacher. How do I know how the graders will read his test responses when it's time for the real thing?

 

I haven't even seen any of these and don't believe that the instructor has turned them back to the kids yet.

 

I found many websites providing study questions, flashcard material, etc. on the internet last year when I was looking for info on the AP American history class, so I'm considering trying to find some info for him that might help him better prepare, on his own, for the test.

 

At a recent open house, the teacher said that the next book they'll have to read will be something from the Jacksonian era, and I'm supposing that there will be a written assignment associated with that. I'm just hoping he gets some feedback from the *first* set of writings before it's time to start on something new! OY!

 

I believe they are slated to read one book at least every nine week period. I'm not sure right now what text they are using for the year, but it certainly doesn't seem to be helping them to answer the standardized test questions.

[8filltheheart]

Regina,

 

I'm sure you are probably aware of this site, but I thought I would share it just in case you weren't. AP US History is available.

 

http://www.montereyinstitute.org/nroc/nrocdemos.html

[mcconnellboys]

Thanks!

[Michelle in MO]

Regina,

 

I'm sure you are probably aware of this site, but I thought I would share it just in case you weren't. AP US History is available.

 

http://www.montereyinstitute.org/nroc/nrocdemos.html

 

momof7! Regena, also be aware that there are other online AP US History courses. Here's one from Pennsylvania Homeschoolers Association--their APUSH class. I've never used it, but I've read good things about that class on these forums.

 

I haven't seen the essay questions graded yet, either---the ones that are assigned as homework. This is the one teacher at the school that seems to be "bugging" everyone. The teacher is also very politically active (no problem with that) but seems to keep her opinion in the forefront of the class during time when she's supposed to be lecturing on civics or history. She had the kids write an essay on who they would vote for in this election if they were 18 years old. I'm very curious to see how that will come back. The assignment isn't a big problem, but I've heard many rumors of favoritism, etc. Tonight is parent/teacher conferences, and I do plan on telling the teacher that the essay tests need to have clearer grades. She's been at the school for a long time, but I do wish some teachers had a clearer understanding that ultimately the parents are in charge of the child's education and that there is an accountability factor there.

[Hoggirl]

particularly in my 11th grade Honors English class that our teacher gave TWO grades for each paper. One was for proper grammar, punctuation, etc., and the other was for style and how "effective" your paper was. I realy appreciated this approach b/c it was easier to see where weaknesses were. I really did not care for this teacher at all at the time, but she definitely made me a better writer.

[chaik76]

We'll find out more after this next essay test is graded. My dd did talk to the teacher and ask her what points she missed, and the teacher just said, "Well, you didn't really answer the last essay question; otherwise it was no big deal." But, no notations were made as to what exactly she missed on content for the other three questions. A large "No!" was written across one point that she made.

 

Overall, we did not find the teacher's grading to be helpful for my dd. Her grammar and mechanics were fine; she just couldn't understand what points she missed. The large "No!" wasn't very helpful! :glare:

 

Thanks, Holly, for your advice on this. I hope most teachers can at least explain to a student important points they need to emphasize in essays!

This is how both my high school and my college professors graded essays! You never knew exactly what to improve for next time...

[Kidlit]

I'm really just a lurker here; my dc are nowhere near high school age. However, I think perhaps I can shed a little light on this. I have taught both public high school history and English, and I currently teach freshman composition at a cc. I must admit that in my early years of teaching, I did not assign enough writing, especially in my English classes. However, I primarily taught history, and I did require my students to summarize newspaper or magazine articles as well as respond in writing to essay questions on their tests. I am fairly certain I was one of the only history teachers who did much of this and actually tried to grade it. The students' writing skills varied from decent to dreadful, with most of them falling more toward the negative end of the spectrum. I did try to give them a clue as to why they missed a question, even if that meant only going over the expected response when I went over the test. Mind you, I even gave the essay questions out ahead of time. Now that I am older and more seasoned as a teacher (and now as a parent, which is definitely the better of the two teachers), I'm sure I'd do things a little differently. However, some of what I did was because that's how things were done at the school where I taught. Expectations and standardization and all that jazz, you know.

 

Now that I teach freshman comp, I grade a whole lot of essays (i.e. this semester I have about 75 students, and they will write a total 4-6 essays each--one class will also do a research paper). I give my students two grades, one for grammar/mechanics and one for content. I try to specify, especially on the content portion, what they could do to make their paper better. I'm not sure that I always communicate it well. For the grammar portion, they have a handout that details how many points each type of error will count. It's still by no means a perfect system. I still struggle a lot in my grading, and I still try to grade somewhat holistically, especially as we the semester progresses. I also try to make specific comments to the class on the day I return their essays about errors that were commonly made.

 

I'm not sure I answered the OP, but maybe I provided a little bit of insight.

 

And now, I'm off to grade essays.:tongue_smilie:

[Michelle in MO]

Now that I teach freshman comp, I grade a whole lot of essays (i.e. this semester I have about 75 students, and they will write a total 4-6 essays each--one class will also do a research paper). I give my students two grades, one for grammar/mechanics and one for content. I try to specify, especially on the content portion, what they could do to make their paper better. I'm not sure that I always communicate it well. For the grammar portion, they have a handout that details how many points each type of error will count. It's still by no means a perfect system. I still struggle a lot in my grading, and I still try to grade somewhat holistically, especially as we the semester progresses. I also try to make specific comments to the class on the day I return their essays about errors that were commonly made.

 

from the history teacher. I don't even care about her correcting the grammar---my dd's grammar is nearly flawless, and I could always review that with her. However, I was disappointed in the teacher's lack of specifics regarding content. How can a student learn anything if the teacher doesn't show them the major flaws in their arguments, or else make them aware of major points that they missed?

[mcconnellboys]

Yes, the PA hser's class is terrific! I know some who have done it. Unfortunately, my older son is also back in a private school, so I'm stuck with that teacher and trying to work around him.

 

I pulled up the website I'd looked at earlier last night and started printing off flashcards to use to help him study. I also found a site with some online practice quizzes we can use.

 

His report card came in today. He has an "A" for the class - geesh! I hate that they placate people by giving out grades like that which create a false sense of security and then allow the kids to fall flat on their faces when it's test time.....

[mcconnellboys]

Exactly! And just giving them an easy "A" in the class doesn't prepare them for the test, either!

[TravelingChris]

My daughter is in an Honors Psychology class at the local CC. Her requirements are show up in class and participate in discussion and turn in a 2 page synopses and reflection paper on each unit in her book. They go through one unit a week None of her papers have been returned and none probably will. I don't know if the teacher reads it but his policy is to not to return the papers unless it is unclear or he has a question. SHe asks dh and I to proofread the paper for her and she corrects errors and improves clarity before turning it in. She hardly ever makes a grammar error but she is not always clear about capitalization and the spell check gives her wrong words sometime.

[FloridaLisa]

My daughter is in an Honors Psychology class at the local CC. Her requirements are show up in class and participate in discussion and turn in a 2 page synopses and reflection paper on each unit in her book. They go through one unit a week None of her papers have been returned and none probably will. I don't know if the teacher reads it but his policy is to not to return the papers unless it is unclear or he has a question. SHe asks dh and I to proofread the paper for her and she corrects errors and improves clarity before turning it in. She hardly ever makes a grammar error but she is not always clear about capitalization and the spell check gives her wrong words sometime.

 

There is such a difference in classes! Ds is slaving away at pre-calc and Spanish (who knew?) at the CC. He loves being there, but slaving away nonetheless. I'm just glad someone else is teaching pre-calc!

 

Lisa