purplejackmama Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Do you have any experience with either of these classes? I'm looking at Pre-A or Algebra for my son next year. Trying to decide which curriculum would be a better fit. How tough is AoPS? I don't want to set him (US!!) up for failure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie of KY Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Do you have any experience with either of these classes? I'm looking at Pre-A or Algebra for my son next year. Trying to decide which curriculum would be a better fit. How tough is AoPS? I don't want to set him (US!!) up for failure. AoPS can certainly be done with average students - I've done it. Some of the things that set you up to not do as well with AoPS are 1) if you don't know the foundational material before starting the class (it's not going to teach you) 2) if you need lots of drill to learn new concepts - the drill is just not there and it moves along quickly so it's hard to add in the drill and keep up with someone else's schedule 3) low tolerance for not seeing the answer right away - AoPS has lots of tough problems that need to be wrestled with. I've only done AoPS on my own, so I don't know how it might be tweaked for WTMA classes. By the way, I love the AoPS Prealgebra book, though the first few chapters are the hardest. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplejackmama Posted January 13, 2016 Author Share Posted January 13, 2016 Thank you, Julie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I love AoPS. My son and I did Pre-A over the summer (in an very accelerated fashion), and started Algebra post-Christmas. I love the program. But the AoPS Pre-A on-line class? That was not good fit. at. all. The format is a "chat line" (no visual interaction) and the "instruction" felt like it could have been (or was?) robo-generated. The chat line moved fast. Then, when problems were offered, solutions came fast too. Son was frustrated when his answers didn't appear (not all do). There are people to take side questions, but any side conversation takes place while the chat line continues to fly. Some people may enjoy the format. We did not. Had I been relying on this class to replace home instruction we would have been sunk. So I love the books. Love the videos. Love Alcamus. Like that there is a support forum. But strongly dislike the format of the on-line class. Bill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 WTM aops class is not text based. We haven't taken it, but it looks like they are also using SM along aops text. I would guess they must be slicing out a chunk of aops text to accommodate SM. Would love to hear from those who have actually taken the class. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 WTM aops class is not text based. We haven't taken it, but it looks like they are also using SM along aops text. I would guess they must be slicing out a chunk of aops text to accommodate SM. Would love to hear from those who have actually taken the class. I'd be curious to hear more about how the WTM class operates. Bill 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I'd be curious to hear more about how the WTM class operates. Bill I have a younger kid who simply couldn't handle AoPS "proper way," so I am keeping an eye out on the WTM class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I have a younger kid who simply couldn't handle AoPS "proper way," so I am keeping an eye out on the WTM class. What do you mean by "proper way"? I know my boy, who is a pretty fair math student, would not have succeded in the official AoPS on-line class we enrolled him in near the end of his 5th Grade year (as a late-10 year old). But he did quite well doing the book over the summer. The time allotted (my bad) required a brutal pace, so "difficulty" wasn't the issue. But the format, which might work for some, made us drop it after a couple sessions. AoPS is very generous about refunding dropped classes. I think he'd enjoy video instruction and a greater sense he was in a class with other people. Bill 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
................... Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 (edited) I love AoPS. My son and I did Pre-A over the summer (in an very accelerated fashion), and started Algebra post-Christmas. I love the program. But the AoPS Pre-A on-line class? That was not good fit. at. all. The format is a "chat line" (no visual interaction) and the "instruction" felt like it could have been (or was?) robo-generated. The chat line moved fast. Then, when problems were offered, solutions came fast too. Son was frustrated when his answers didn't appear (not all do). There are people to take side questions, but any side conversation takes place while the chat line continues to fly. Some people may enjoy the format. We did not. Had I been relying on this class to replace home instruction we would have been sunk. So I love the books. Love the videos. Love Alcamus. Like that there is a support forum. But strongly dislike the format of the on-line class. Bill Agree. THe class is nearly useless. My son said the EXACT same thing about the text to the class being robo-generated. He said it looks like the teacher already has everything all typed out and then just hits send every 5 minutes, while the moderators let through certain comments/solutions from students. Completely boring, completely inane. The online class gives you challenge problems that allow up to 5 submissions, but you get one point taken away for every time you submit a wrong answer. So you CANNOT use the online challenge problems system to help your student check their work or motivate them. It's not motivational, only discouraging. My son found the forum to be no real help. What's worse is that the Challenge problems in the online class are NOT the same Challenge problems in the solutions manual! So if your student gets stuck, and you are also stuck (which is very likely that you will get stuck one or two times every chapter unless you are a certified math genius.)...there is NO WAY to help them. SO they just lose points while the problem sits there Alcumus is helpful but that's free anyway. Love it. We would pay for access we love it so much. For Intro to Algebra B, my son will use the book, and I will help him with the solutions manual and he will have tutoring once a week. Makes way more sense!!! I agree with SpyCar. Love the books. Love the Videos. Love Alcumus. Greatlly dislike the Online Class. One important benefit to the online class: It's nationally accredited. Just FYI. Edited January 13, 2016 by Calming Tea 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
................... Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Oh, AOPS is very tough....but on the other hand, lets say we take out the Challenge Problems...then it's not so much tough as it is unconventional. YOu really can get a full Pre-A education without doing any of the Challenge problems, but you DO have to do all of the Exercises. This is one thing that really took me a while to grasp. I was so worried a few months ago because my son wasn't getting many of the CHallenge problems. I realize now that while I wish he could (for his sake, as we live in a competitive area), it doesn't mean he isn't grasping a high level basic Algebra course. You do have to sit there and puzzle over math with him...and there's a lot of text to read...but IMO (and I CANNOT Believe I am saying this) but I am enjoying sitting down and working through them (the challenge problems) now and then! idk...the more I think about it the more I realize if your kid likes math and likes a puzzle, then you have to invest time in math and be willing to be way more open to different ways of doing things, schedule changes, some chapters taking more or less time, etc. I think, it's just part of the math process. BUT (and this is a big caveat), we have an amazing math tutor helping out. If she wasn't in the picture, I am pretty sure we would not make it through, regardless of how open our minds are or how hard we were willing to work. I have zero math background and am much more verbally gifted. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 What do you mean by "proper way"? Bill I simply mean aops way of implementing aops as opposed to anybody else's. I have one kid who had zero trouble with preA class in 4th grade. He is taking algebra in 5th online and greatly enjoys both the pace and format of an actual class. I am not convinced his younger brother is cut out for aops rigor with or without the aops online class, so assuming WTM has different format and expectations, we might consider it for him. Otherwise we will keep plowing through SM new middle school Discovering Math series. I like the clean and straightforward look of it for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplejackmama Posted January 14, 2016 Author Share Posted January 14, 2016 Agree. THe class is nearly useless. My son said the EXACT same thing about the text to the class being robo-generated. He said it looks like the teacher already has everything all typed out and then just hits send every 5 minutes, while the moderators let through certain comments/solutions from students. Completely boring, completely inane. The online class gives you challenge problems that allow up to 5 submissions, but you get one point taken away for every time you submit a wrong answer. So you CANNOT use the online challenge problems system to help your student check their work or motivate them. It's not motivational, only discouraging. My son found the forum to be no real help. What's worse is that the Challenge problems in the online class are NOT the same Challenge problems in the solutions manual! So if your student gets stuck, and you are also stuck (which is very likely that you will get stuck one or two times every chapter unless you are a certified math genius.)...there is NO WAY to help them. SO they just lose points while the problem sits there Alcumus is helpful but that's free anyway. Love it. We would pay for access we love it so much. For Intro to Algebra B, my son will use the book, and I will help him with the solutions manual and he will have tutoring once a week. Makes way more sense!!! I agree with SpyCar. Love the books. Love the Videos. Love Alcumus. Greatlly dislike the Online Class. One important benefit to the online class: It's nationally accredited. Just FYI.[/quote Are you talking about the WTMA class? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerforest Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 No, they were talking about the AoPS classes available from AoPS. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplejackmama Posted January 14, 2016 Author Share Posted January 14, 2016 Ok. I'm interested in the WTMA math classes. Anyone have any experience with those? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 No, they were talking about the AoPS classes available from AoPS. Right. Ok. I'm interested in the WTMA math classes. Anyone have any experience with those? I'd like to know more about them as well. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 One important benefit to the online class: It's nationally accredited. Just FYI. Please excuse my ignorance (foreigner here :D ), but does that mean if we ended up going to PS, they are more likely to accept the credit? I always seem to be planning for that possibility and so far was told schools can chose to accept or deny credit as they please. Does accreditation change that? If so, I really hope WTM Academy one day becomes accredited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilaclady Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Wow Calming tree that was quite a tough review. My dd is taking her second class and I have sat with her on a number of sessions. The teachers do not have the lines typed out before hand. She has a number of answers go through. The kids are very fast because so many of them have learnt LaTex and can type very fast. It is a different environment for some but they are generally helpful on the forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
................... Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 My son types 95 wpm. It's not the typing. Maybe his instructor is not as interesting as the others. But since spy car has the same view I don't think my review is more tough than what our actual experience has been. My review is simply this: the class had no merit for my son. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daijobu Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 I think the quality varies. My dd's have had AoPS classes where the instructors are very involved and responsive. But the class my dd is currently taking (AMC12 prep), the instructor never participates in the discussion boards. She has had to rely on the kindness of other classmates for learning. I think some of the text is prepared in advanced, and reused for each class. But much of it is interactive and responsive to student participation. Having said that, while we have taken many AoPS online classes, I never rely on them for core courses, but more for AMC and MathCounts prep. Also their python classes are quite good, though again, the quality of the instructor varies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
................... Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Please excuse my ignorance (foreigner here :D ), but does that mean if we ended up going to PS, they are more likely to accept the credit? I always seem to be planning for that possibility and so far was told schools can chose to accept or deny credit as they please. Does accreditation change that? If so, I really hope WTM Academy one day becomes accredited. Yes. The association that AOPS is accredited by is accepted by almost all colleges and high schools nationwide. ( It is not however accepted by the UC and CalState system (California public universities) at this time, unless your student has a public school teacher somehow overseeing it...like through a public homeschool charter and that teacher/course has gone through a-g approval) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
................... Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 And yes accreditation (if it's the big name secular ones) does change that. If you had a transcript that was from a WASC or mIddle States or other big ones accredited, no public school would turn it down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 And yes accreditation (if it's the big name secular ones) does change that. If you had a transcript that was from a WASC or mIddle States or other big ones accredited, no public school would turn it down. Thats great to know. I am keeping his grades from aops classes just in case. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiguirre Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) Do you have any experience with either of these classes? I'm looking at Pre-A or Algebra for my son next year. Trying to decide which curriculum would be a better fit. How tough is AoPS? I don't want to set him (US!!) up for failure. Trinqueta is doing Algebra 1 at the WTM Academy this year. It is a live class with a teacher using a white board to work problems. They sometimes break out into small groups to work on problems together. The homework and exams allow three attempts with no penalty for retrying a problem. The teacher makes every effort to not frustrate students, but the problems are all from AOPS with a very occasional drill and kill puzzle sheet from a supplemental workbook. T is really enjoying this class. She likes to puzzle out the problems and doesn't find it too stressful. The AOPS class format was not going to work for her so we haven't even tried. If there was no WTM AOPS class, we'd have gone with Homeschool Connections Foerster class. We used Saxon Algebra 1 as part of our prealgebra/algebra mash-up last year and neither of us liked it much. It's a lot of repetitive problems with wicked numbers, but not much thought required. It's sort of the opposite of AOPS which usually has nice, whole numbers but makes you think about what you're doing with them. Edited January 20, 2016 by chiguirre 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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