Barton level 4 help

[Jnma]

Hi everyone,

 

Need a bit of help. My son has been cruising along with Barton for the last year. We are in level 4 now and things are going much slower (as I expected). He is struggling with his word attack now that we're on multi-syllable words. He does a great job with encoding. He can spell almost any word I ask. But reading is painfully slow -like a whole minute for one word. I've tried the fluency drills and the quizlet app, but then he just starts guessing wildly (and freaks out). Any recommendations? I'm hoping with repetition we'll get there?!

 

Thanks

[lilmissc74]

I'm sorry I don't have any advice, but we are in the same place. Book 4 is such a jump and I'm trying not to panic. I'm worried if this level is so hard, how can he ever make it through to the end? Hang in there!

[lilmissc74]

I'm sorry I don't have any advice, but we are in the same place. Book 4 is such a jump and I'm trying not to panic. I'm worried if this level is so hard, how can he ever make it through to the end? Hang in there!

[PeterPan]

Have you seen the RAN/RAS dot pages?  https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4rcl6f0uo70esmv/AAAaGAHw3_YTMEQZSw_WI-t_a?dl=0

 

That's free, so you can just download them and use.  

 

How is he doing with the end of lesson stories in Barton?  Is he reading those, just very slowly?  

 

I think it's important to build fluency with the words you've covered up to that point.  What I had to do with my ds was control access.  So I don't just show the word.  Cover the word and reveal letter by letter.  Or ask questions to talk him through the syllable divisions and force him to answer.  How many vowels?  Where do we divide?  

 

With my quizlet, I have up both the words (yes) but also the *phrases* and the sentences.  So we get fluent on the words till they're SOLID.  Then we tackle the phrases till they're SOLID.  Then we work on the sentences till they're SOLID.  There's no moving on till all of them are solid.  That's how I handle it.  And daily work on RAN/RAS till that improves.  If he cannot read the phrases and sentences from the previous lessons (or previous level!) comfortable, then I would go back and nail those.  

 

At least that is what works for us.

[Julie of KY]

Hi everyone,

 

Need a bit of help. My son has been cruising along with Barton for the last year. We are in level 4 now and things are going much slower (as I expected). He is struggling with his word attack now that we're on multi-syllable words. He does a great job with encoding. He can spell almost any word I ask. But reading is painfully slow -like a whole minute for one word. I've tried the fluency drills and the quizlet app, but then he just starts guessing wildly (and freaks out). Any recommendations? I'm hoping with repetition we'll get there?!

 

Thanks

 

What jumps out at me most is that he can encode the words, but has more trouble decoding them. Is this typical (looking for input from others).

 

Level 4 is much harder as others have said.

 

My daughter had horrible time decoding the words and then when she was able to decode individual words, it still wouldn't come together as fluency - turned out to be convergence insufficiency which was helped by vision therapy.

 

My son is on level 4 right now and I agree with working on each level until they can do it. We use the student sheets and the fluency drills as given, but I also take a copy and cut it up and put it into a ziplock bag. I make him pull out phrases and sentences through the day to practice more. I can add anything we need to work on - more review of contractions, sight words, etc. When we play a game, he picks one phrase/sentence every turn. He might read more to earn a little extra computer time, etc. Lots and lots of drill however it works in your home.

 

[PeterPan]

To get his eyes checked like Julie is saying, you look for a developmental optometrist through COVD.  It's definitely a good thing to get done.  

[OneStepAtATime]

Well, this probably won't seem very encouraging but DD had to do the first 9 lessons of Level 4 3 times before she could finally move forward with the rest of the level with any real success.   The first time through those first 9 lessons she took as much as two weeks per lesson.  The second time through it was a week a lesson.  The third time through it was a lesson every one or two days and it was really, really sticking.  Doing it that many times was discouraging for both of us at first, but it really helped her finally internalize syllabication and the other rules and she felt soooo good about successfully tackling Level 4 and seeing how it started applying to reading outside of Barton.  She is reading so much better than she ever has before. 

 

FWIW, a LOT of people struggle with Level 4.  Some feel it needs to be broken up into two levels with smaller leaps forward.  I know a couple of people who jumped ship because Level 4 was such a struggle.  I almost did the same but it had helped DD sooooo much I just wanted to keep at it.  I am very glad I did since it really has been a HUGE help for DD.  That doesn't mean it is the best choice for everyone but I thought I would share.

 

As for suggestions on how to improve the situation, the suggestions made up thread are what we did, along with taking a break, practicing Level 3 rules through the Spelling Success Barton card games and fluency drills and practice pages then starting Level 4 again.

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[imagine.more]

We are just finishing Level 4 and we began it last July-ish? So 6 months....a full 6 months to finish it. BUT, it's been worth it! DD made a huge leap in reading recently but it was a lot of work getting there. I suggest taking it slow and reviewing lessons. With DD I did every lesson in Level 3 and 4 twice at least, AND occasionally paused for a few days to just review with games. I find that goofing around with games sneaks in fluency practice without the kids freaking out so much. If I can find a way to post pics or a video I will. Do you have any of the Spelling Success games? I find those helped tremendously with reading fluency as well. It's amazing what a simple card game can do to review skills. 

 

Basically, keep practicing, go back and review often, and just keep plugging away. 

[Jenn in CA]

Hi everyone,

 

Need a bit of help. My son has been cruising along with Barton for the last year. We are in level 4 now and things are going much slower (as I expected). He is struggling with his word attack now that we're on multi-syllable words. He does a great job with encoding. He can spell almost any word I ask. But reading is painfully slow -like a whole minute for one word. I've tried the fluency drills and the quizlet app, but then he just starts guessing wildly (and freaks out). Any recommendations? I'm hoping with repetition we'll get there?!

 

Thanks

I wonder if he needs more practice just on syllable division since the trouble is multisyllable words.

 

My dd started guessing on multisyllabic words. Now we divide 2-3 words into syllables at the beginning of our session as a warmup.

[OneStepAtATime]

How old is your son and what lesson are you on in Level 4?

[Jnma]

My son is almost 10 and we are on lesson 5. He had 10 months of vision therapy and his eyes are working together much better.

 

It sounds like I'm on the right track (lots of repetition breaking the syllables apart, fluency sheets, 2 weeks per lesson), but need to slow down slightly. Or maybe my expectations were a little off. He gets through it, but some days it's painfully slow. Although, this morning he read one of the advanced stories in a minute and a half.  :svengo:

 

I love the games idea and I will check into the RAN/RAS dot pages.

 

Thanks guys.

[Jenn in CA]

Two weeks per lesson is great. We're like a month per lesson. We only do 15-20 min/day, 4 days/2wk though. It's a lot less than SB says to do but at this point it's about all my 7 & 8 yo dds can handle.

[hsmomshutterbug]

We are just at the end of Level 4, and when I looked back at our progress tracking sheet to see when we started...March of last year.  I am estimating that we probably have another month or two of review left, so all in it will have taken a year to complete level 4.  It's just  A LOT for them to master.  I remember a few months after we started, calling Barton's office and asking what is typical time to complete level 4 and they stated that 4 is probably the hardest level in the program.    

My advice would be to take your time, rushing will only cause you to have to repeat.  Better to take a break, as other comments have said, mix things up, review the material already taught to make sure it's solid before moving on, etc. 

I keep a running list of rules and sight words from previous and current levels and we spend about the first 10 min. of each lesson going over a few each time.  

[kitten18]

My ds is in level 4. I feel your pain. LOL

[OneStepAtATime]

 Definitely, if you feel you can, please take a bit of time to review after finishing lesson 5 for Level 4.  It should help.  It is a good place to pause and review the first 5 lessons.

 

Spelling Success has great card games for Barton, including 4 sets of games for Level 4.  I recommend you get the set for lesson 1-5 if you can.  Once you finish lesson 5,  just review for a couple of weeks or more with the extra practice pages (there are more per lesson on the website you can download, if you haven't already, so 5 extra practice pages per lesson) plus the fluency drills and the card game.  You might even consider taking the words from the existing stories and shuffle them up to create new stories.  Your child might enjoy helping you then reading the stories afterwards.   If you don't have the Spelling Success card games for the rules and for the units from Level 3, you might consider those as well.  Those rules will be directly tied to some things coming up in Level 4 so playing the card games may help prep for what's to come.  DD and DS both still sometimes pull out those cards and play a game to review.

 

Good luck.

[Minerva]

Listening in here since we are stalled out at Barton Level 3 with fluency issues. 

[OneStepAtATime]

Listening in here since we are stalled out at Barton Level 3 with fluency issues. 

Did your child pass the screening?  DS ran into HUGE fluency issues in Level 3 but he didn't pass Part C of the screening.  He ended up having to use LiPS again and then another program through a specialized tutoring agency in another city to help with his fluency.  He still stumbles a bit, and usually on the same specific sounds irregardless of what he is using.  Barton definitely has helped him with reading and spelling and doing the other programs made Barton a successful program for us to use but whatever sound glitches he has will probably always cause some issues.  

 

DD didn't have a problem with the screening but did run into some issues with fluency in Level 3.  Not bad but it tripped her up a little bit.  We slowed down, then actually took a couple of weeks break before reviewing the previous lessons, while we also played the card games, did the fluency practice sheets and the extra practice pages, and it all smoothed out...well, until we hit Level 4.   :lol:   Thankfully, that finally worked out, too.

 

Mostly I have found that when the kids are really tripping up, I need to slow down, sometimes take a couple of week hiatus, review the previous lessons and incorporate the games (the Spelling Success card games are good) and extra practice pages to get us over the hump.

 

My daughter just walked by and I asked her if she agrees with my assessment of how to get over humps.  She says "Yes, absolutely."

 

She also says to tell anyone who cares:  "Barton has helped me a lot.  It can be boring, sometimes tedious or frustrating or discouraging, but mainly that is because my brain didn't want to do what it needed to do to learn to read and spell.  Reading and spelling are HARD.  Well, I'm learning.  And reading and spelling aren't so hard after all.  So there, brain!  Thanks Barton!"   :laugh:

[Minerva]

Awww...That's so nice of your daughter to say and very encouraging. 

 

My son passed the Barton screening and did okay with Levels One and Two, but his fluency was bad even with CVC words. He really does understand the blends and digraphs in isolation, but somehow when we put it together in words and phrases he just gets confused and frustrated. I am moving at a snails pace right now. We are on Lesson four, but we have been doing Level three for several months. I am fine moving slowly.  I have seen tiny incremental forward progress since we started Barton, so I am clinging to that as our life raft, well...that' and your daughter's words.

Edited May 15, 2016 by Minerva

[imagine.more]

Did your child pass the screening?  DS ran into HUGE fluency issues in Level 3 but he didn't pass Part C of the screening.  He ended up having to use LiPS again and then another program through a specialized tutoring agency in another city to help with his fluency.  He still stumbles a bit, and usually on the same specific sounds irregardless of what he is using.  Barton definitely has helped him with reading and spelling and doing the other programs made Barton a successful program for us to use but whatever sound glitches he has will probably always cause some issues.  

 

DD didn't have a problem with the screening but did run into some issues with fluency in Level 3.  Not bad but it tripped her up a little bit.  We slowed down, then actually took a couple of weeks break before reviewing the previous lessons, while we also played the card games, did the fluency practice sheets and the extra practice pages, and it all smoothed out...well, until we hit Level 4.   :lol:   Thankfully, that finally worked out, too.

 

Mostly I have found that when the kids are really tripping up, I need to slow down, sometimes take a couple of week hiatus, review the previous lessons and incorporate the games (the Spelling Success card games are good) and extra practice pages to get us over the hump.

 

My daughter just walked by and I asked her if she agrees with my assessment of how to get over humps.  She says "Yes, absolutely."

 

She also says to tell anyone who cares:  "Barton has helped me a lot.  It can be boring, sometimes tedious or frustrating or discouraging, but mainly that is because my brain didn't want to do what it needed to do to learn to read and spell.  Reading and spelling are HARD.  Well, I'm learning.  And reading and spelling aren't so hard after all.  So there, brain!  Thanks Barton!"   :laugh:

 

:lol: Your daughter is so funny! But it's so true. The Spelling Success cards have been a huge help for us too! I'm glad I'm tutoring several students now because if it was just DD I wouldn't be able to justify the extra review games but they're really well priced for the quality and benefit. But with 5+ kids using them I have happily bought the games for each level as we go. 

[countrygal]

Chiming in to say we finished lesson 4 of level 4 today... But we'll probably need to review. My son is like yours - he can encode (spell) well, but the decoding has always been his struggle. He is 10.

 

I know he shouldn't be guessing, but now on the multisyllable words he's guessing again!!! How 'normal' is it to revert back to that? I know we'll just have to keep practicing dividing the words into syllables but he gets angry because he feels like he shouldn't 'have to'. He's started putting sounds in that aren't there, esp. l, r, n sounds (racket = rackent.)  He also can read the sight words on flashcards and spell most of them but then skips them or reads the wrong one in the phrases and stories (a for the, then/when, what/that, says for was, etc). The stories are difficult for him to understand because they are about things not of his maturity level (does that make sense?) So I think he doesn't catch sight words he reads wrong because to him the whole story is 'dumb' and doesn't make much sense; he finds that frustrating. What can be done about that? Just keep plugging along? That's what I'm planning on doing... I can't imagine using this program (level 4 anyway) on a child younger than him because even if a child can decode a word, many of them are not of a child's vocabulary (skeptic, omit, shoddy??)

 

[PeterPan]

The vocabulary of B4 is fine for my dd.  He happens to have quite high vocab scores.  What he wasn't comprehending was because of his language problems, and we're working on it.  

 

I don't think I would accept "dumb" as an answer for why he doesn't want to read the stories.  It sounds like he's having a breakdown in attention, impulsivity, noticing details, etc.  You could popcorn read, alternating sentences.  You could retype the story into single sentence pages and illustrate as you read.  You could use a card to control the amount you see at once.  Barton's instructions say to read silently, then aloud.  If he has read it through before and was comfortable with the decoding, then you should be free to stop and say oops and point to the word he missed, work on phrasing, whatever.  If he's skipping and jumping a lot, maybe even say oops I think we need to read this a 2nd time silently to prepare, and go back.

 

Has he had vision therapy yet?  Might get his vision checked, just to make sure he's tracking well.

 

Really, only 2 or 3 of the 4 Barton stories per lesson are usually relevant for my ds.  I have the supplemental readers, and of those about half are easily applicable to a younger dc, with stories they can relate to.  

 

Your other really good tool to consider are the comprehension guides.  They're terrific, and they'd help with a dc who needs some help to slow down and engage.  If he has an ADHD label, that issue of slowing down and engaging (turning on attention, choosing to attend) is something that's going to continue to be a struggle.  There are some strategies for that.  Switching materials can make that easier too, obviously, but having the tools so he can turn it on when he NEEDS it can be good too.  Otherwise you get into this pattern of like oh that science book doesn't fit me because it's not well-written, when the issue is really the kid.  Sigh.  Btdt.

 

The other thing you can do is look at his working memory and make sure that is keeping up with the demands of these longer words.  When they start guessing and adding/subtracting sounds with longer words, that can be where the breakdown is.  My dd did that, and she's not even dyslexic.  You really can't go wrong working more on working memory.  It just makes everything easier.

Edited January 13, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[countrygal]

He can read the stories and then answer questions about them. It's getting him motivated to do it without groaning and applying himself is the problem! Most days he works very hard at it. Yesterday was just a bad day. He's not ADHD. IMO, they aren't exactly the most exciting stories - but that's what it is when there is the limitations of sticking to the only the rules that have been learned so far. I had him read to me a story out of the level three books and he seemed to just be reading too fast. When I had him slow down and follow my finger he didn't skip or say the wrong sight word nearly as much. It's like I was hoping by now Barton would have fixed his old reading habits. At the same time, should I be expecting perfection? Also, I'm frustrated because he doesn't know if he read the right word or not because he doesn't know the word to begin with. Obviously I'm there and explain all the words. We read only one story a day at the end of the lesson, then another the next day. And he does the silent preread and uses a pencil to divide all the multisyllable words. Maybe's it's just that I'm not confident he'll continue to use the syllable rules if we move forward. I can hardly remember how to explain the rules! Yesterday was just a frustrating day. Sorry, I feel like I hijacked this thread to share my frustration. Either way this is my experience.

 

Thanks for your help. Thanks for whoever posted about Spelling Success. That looks like a great supplement. I wish there were lists of all the words that follow each rule. Then I could make little practice cards. Does anything like that exist?

 

I took him to get his vision checked and the dr. actually did developmental eye screening for 3 years prior to this job. He said he couldn't do the all the specific testing because there wasn't the right equipment there. He did check convergence and tracking and watched him as he read and said he didn't see any outstanding problems. However, the closest place to do a technical screening and therapy is 1 hr 45 minutes one way and I could do that if I was still concerned. It's just not possible. I wish it was but I have 6 children and can't be driving nearly 8 hours a week for 6 months for therapy.

[imagine.more]

For lists of words try Barton's Fluency Pages on the tutor support part of her webpage. I use those plus any words from the lessons for quick words to make games with. After awhile you start being able to think of some off-the-cuff but honestly it's way easier to just pull them off the fluency pages ;)

[PeterPan]

He can read the stories and then answer questions about them. It's getting him motivated to do it without groaning and applying himself is the problem! Most days he works very hard at it. Yesterday was just a bad day. He's not ADHD. IMO, they aren't exactly the most exciting stories - but that's what it is when there is the limitations of sticking to the only the rules that have been learned so far. I had him read to me a story out of the level three books and he seemed to just be reading too fast. When I had him slow down and follow my finger he didn't skip or say the wrong sight word nearly as much. It's like I was hoping by now Barton would have fixed his old reading habits. At the same time, should I be expecting perfection? Also, I'm frustrated because he doesn't know if he read the right word or not because he doesn't know the word to begin with. Obviously I'm there and explain all the words. We read only one story a day at the end of the lesson, then another the next day. And he does the silent preread and uses a pencil to divide all the multisyllable words. Maybe's it's just that I'm not confident he'll continue to use the syllable rules if we move forward. I can hardly remember how to explain the rules! Yesterday was just a frustrating day. Sorry, I feel like I hijacked this thread to share my frustration. Either way this is my experience.

 

Thanks for your help. Thanks for whoever posted about Spelling Success. That looks like a great supplement. I wish there were lists of all the words that follow each rule. Then I could make little practice cards. Does anything like that exist?

 

I took him to get his vision checked and the dr. actually did developmental eye screening for 3 years prior to this job. He said he couldn't do the all the specific testing because there wasn't the right equipment there. He did check convergence and tracking and watched him as he read and said he didn't see any outstanding problems. However, the closest place to do a technical screening and therapy is 1 hr 45 minutes one way and I could do that if I was still concerned. It's just not possible. I wish it was but I have 6 children and can't be driving nearly 8 hours a week for 6 months for therapy.

Well that's GOOD that his vision is screening as ok!  That would seem good enough to me.  I mean I'm not going to pay for a full dev. vision eval as long as my ds is screening ok, mercy.  

 

The multi-syllable word thing is hard.  Barton tends to make up a lot of names that make no sense to me.  I rename things to make them work for us.  You might play around with that.  Like we have the "divide and slide" rule and the "Reverse!!!" rule.  (Reverse is said with great drama there, like you're skidding your brake, hehe.)  And I *do* think you have to practice to fluency and automaticity.  To me, I never try to tackle the lesson stories with him until he can read all the words, all the phrases, and all the sentences from the lesson COLD.  Like just nailed, fluent.  That's what I shoot for.  Because, for him, the comprehension is hard enough without adding in stumbling over the decoding, kwim? 

 

I think your question of the vocabulary is an issue.  The tutor I talked with said that's always her big challenge with kids, that they're not acquiring vocabulary at the rate of their peers and thus have no clue what the words are when they see them.  And obviously, with multi-syllable words, you don't even know to reverse and try the other way unless you know the word is right one way or the other.  Our answer to that is excessive, outrageous amounts of audiobooks daily.  My ds' kindle keeps track, and he averages 3-4 hours a day.  I just dump everything I find on the cheap that might interest him.  Books about dog research, Teaching Company courses, Beverly Cleary...  Right now he's listening to Trumpet of the Swan again.  He usually listens to things many, many times and memorizes them.  His vocabulary tests as 99th percentile.  He has no problem learning vocabulary, but he has to have the inputs, in context, to have the chance, kwim?  

 

I'm sure there are situations where that wouldn't work either.  And earbuds can help if you're like I would but I have 6 kids.  Right now you can get a Kindle fire HD for around $50 I think.  Check, but I think they're around that.  His is an HDX (older model) with double speakers.  He uses it without earbuds most of the time and only puts on earbuds in the car.  The HD models have single speakers, so you'll find some people unhappy with the amount of sound.  But for some uses, especially with earbuds, that would be fine, kwim?  

 

Well that's your rabbit trail.  Any excuse to get someone hooked on a kindle and audiobooks.  :D

[Mom2OandE]

I had never heard of those games. I just ordered all of the level 3 games. Thanks.

 

I will say I'm glad I saw this thread. I had been planning 3-4 months for level 4 but clearly it won't be that easy. I'd rather know that going in so I don't set ds up for failure.

[OneStepAtATime]

I had never heard of those games. I just ordered all of the level 3 games. Thanks.

 

I will say I'm glad I saw this thread. I had been planning 3-4 months for level 4 but clearly it won't be that easy. I'd rather know that going in so I don't set ds up for failure.

Level 4 is just really tricky.  It covers a lot of material.  Some kids take a year or longer.  I think a lot of people get caught off guard by Level 4. I think it should have a disclaimer printed in big bold letters across the front.   :lol: 

 

Oh, I wouldn't take much time between Level 3 and Level 4, either.  It makes it much harder to get into a groove for Level 4.

 

The Spelling Success games really have helped here.  So glad you got them.  There were only 2 when we did Level 3.  Going to look up the games again and see what was added ( :) ).  The Level 4 games have also been very popular and helpful here, but I here they added a site word game and I can't attest to that one.  It wasn't around when we were ordering for Level 4.

 

Ok, just looked and Spelling Success HAS added several new things.  Cool!  If I end up tutoring I will look at purchasing the other games.  Awesome.

[Guest2]

Level four kept us busy for a looong time. My son sounded out everything. Fluency issues were huge. We only did a few pages a day, i.e. Teaching number 1 on day one , and possibly day two, maybe day number three. We didn't do additional work, no extra reading..ect. In level five, we went back and read level books for 3 and 4.

 

I did sometimes use a transparent piece of plastic about the size of the word window. I can't find a link, but suspect Etsy. It was just a one inch line width pink highlight tranparency connected to blue. You just line up the pink to end with the first syllable, so one syllable is pink, one blue. He liked that. I also wrote a lot of words on notecards in larger letters and he could use highlight marker to divide.

 

I don't know if this encouraging or not, but just by the act of going through the lesson slowly and going over sight words , my son developed fluency. The end if chapter stories were excruciating. I would have him sound out/ read word by word , then repeat the sentence and have to sound most if it out again, and again. It was hard , and we pretty much hated it. But it worked. We only did Bartons, Math, typing and copywork( copying a sentence or two from Bartons reader). Read alouds filled the rest in thankfully, because I needed to lay down for 15 minutes after Bartons.

 

We also increased our read alouds to once in the morning with me, and evening with Dad. During this time, we bought an ipod with charger/speaker dock and installed the Learning Ally app. Best investment after Bartons we ever made. We started with funny books that we thought he would love, and evolved into quite a variety. Same idea as OhElizabeth really.

[OneStepAtATime]

DD and I were reviewing this morning and decided to pull out the Level 4 Barton card game for lessons 6-11,since schwa has always been a bit of a struggle for DD.  We discovered that we weren't sure where certain words went on the rule cards.  Since the cards have the lesson they tie to labeled on the back of the card we were able to go back to the exact lesson in the TM to see where and why we were tripping up.  Took all of 5 minutes to review and we were both off and running again.  Just thought I would share since the Spelling Success cards have come up on here several times.

[PeterPan]

 I also wrote a lot of words on notecards in larger letters and he could use highlight marker to divide.

 

Oooo, I like this!!!  What a good, kinesthetic way to approach syllable divisions!  It's hard to get my ds to slow down and really tackle things.  Actually, I should just buy the stupid Barton app level and be done with it.  With that can we practice dividing the syllables for the level 4 words?  That's what always gets me is all the *prep* work for stuff.  But anything kinesthetic, where he can touch, move, slice, that's good.  

 

We need Word Ninja syllabication games, hehe!  :D

[OneStepAtATime]

Oooo, I like this!!!  What a good, kinesthetic way to approach syllable divisions!  It's hard to get my ds to slow down and really tackle things.  Actually, I should just buy the stupid Barton app level and be done with it.  With that can we practice dividing the syllables for the level 4 words?  That's what always gets me is all the *prep* work for stuff.  But anything kinesthetic, where he can touch, move, slice, that's good.  

 

We need Word Ninja syllabication games, hehe!   :D

Are you talking about the I-Pad based Barton Tile app?  If you are, then yes you can have access to Level 4 if that is the one you buy.  What is handy about the tile app is that you never run out of tiles and can have multiple words on the screen at the same time.  Sometimes the tiles get a tad glitchy when trying to separate them into syllables but that may be because my I-Pad  is ancient.  The app saves where you were in the lesson so when you log back in you are where you were at the last session but you can hop all over.  It wasn't as intuitive as I had hoped but once DD and I practiced with the app for a bit it worked fine for us, especially with syllable division.  She does sometimes prefer the real tiles so we use those still but the app makes set up and clean up waaaaaay easier.  

[Guest2]

I puffy heart love the app . It made all of our "Barton's time " so much more efficient. It took so much time to put together the tiles and sometimes it would be hard to keep kids wating while I set up another word. I tried everything . Even tried to put together all of the words ahead of time, but I would have needed so many more sets of tiles..and hands. I tried a different app before Bartons came out.. Sound beginings or something. It was good, but Barton's has all of the words pre-programmed into the app.

[frogger]

Chiming in to say we finished lesson 4 of level 4 today... But we'll probably need to review. My son is like yours - he can encode (spell) well, but the decoding has always been his struggle. He is 10.

 

I know he shouldn't be guessing, but now on the multisyllable words he's guessing again!!! How 'normal' is it to revert back to that? I know we'll just have to keep practicing dividing the words into syllables but he gets angry because he feels like he shouldn't 'have to'. He's started putting sounds in that aren't there, esp. l, r, n sounds (racket = rackent.) He also can read the sight words on flashcards and spell most of them but then skips them or reads the wrong one in the phrases and stories (a for the, then/when, what/that, says for was, etc). The stories are difficult for him to understand because they are about things not of his maturity level (does that make sense?) So I think he doesn't catch sight words he reads wrong because to him the whole story is 'dumb' and doesn't make much sense; he finds that frustrating. What can be done about that? Just keep plugging along? That's what I'm planning on doing... I can't imagine using this program (level 4 anyway) on a child younger than him because even if a child can decode a word, many of them are not of a child's vocabulary (skeptic, omit, shoddy??)

My son reads the story through and then we discuss words that he might not know. I usually ask him what a certain word means (who says filch anymore) and if he doesn't know we read the sentence again and maybe even mark phrasing and then I ask him to look for context clue. Sometimes he can figure it out and sometimes I explain or I clarify what he did figure out. When we have read each paragraph I have him read the whole story again to see if it makes more sense now that he knows the word. Some words I just explain before he reads it especially I it is in the title like, "The Prom".

 

 

 

In response to other posts I too have found spelling the word easier for my son than reading the word. I do make him stop with each one that he guesses at and mark the vowels, and separate and sound out. They don't touch and say when I tell them to but they know that means say each letter sound completly separately and to slow down and sound out.

 

Sometimes I cover part of the word if we get desperate but I try to make him do it himself.

[frogger]

I am in a similar place. I'm thinking of writing all the multi-syllable words on note cards and making him go through the process of finding out how they are split and cutting the card in half at that point so he can practice splitting them more. I wish I knew how to make them flashcards that stuck together but could be pulled apart. Maybe Velcro? He does great on the tiles but the jump to paper without the color clues if the tiles hasn't been that easy for him.

[PeterPan]

Hmm, that's an interesting point.  Does the app use colors for the vowels?  

 

You know, another way you could do it (just thinking here) is type/write the words out onto cards and then lay sticks across them to divide the syllables.  We have one of those marble games where you lay the plastic sticks and then pull them out till the marbles crash.  Those would be the right thickness.  That would work.  

 

Or put the words under a gel layer (hair gel in a bag, plastic drawing transparency that changes colors when you draw, whatever) and let him Fruit Ninja style chop/draw the syllable divisions.

Edited February 1, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[OneStepAtATime]

Hmm, that's an interesting point.  Does the app use colors for the vowels?  

 

You know, another way you could do it (just thinking here) is type/write the words out onto cards and then lay sticks across them to divide the syllables.  We have one of those marble games where you lay the plastic sticks and then pull them out till the marbles crash.  Those would be the right thickness.  That would work.  

 

Or put the words under a gel layer (hair gel in a bag, plastic drawing transparency that changes colors when you draw, whatever) and let him Fruit Ninja style chop/draw the syllable divisions.

Yes.  The colors on the tiles are the same as in the app.  I am very grateful for the consistency.

[imagine.more]

I am in a similar place. I'm thinking of writing all the multi-syllable words on note cards and making him go through the process of finding out how they are split and cutting the card in half at that point so he can practice splitting them more. I wish I knew how to make them flashcards that stuck together but could be pulled apart. Maybe Velcro? He does great on the tiles but the jump to paper without the color clues if the tiles hasn't been that easy for him.

 

 

I think writing them on index cards and having him fold to divide the syllables is a great idea! That is one of the tips we did in our Orton Gillingham class. 

 

I just updated my blog today with a new tip that might maybe be helpful. We've been highlighting the syllables in words instead of dividing them by drawing a line. http://readingtherightway.blogspot.com/2016/02/marking-syllables-trick.html

 

...it works well for my student who is working through Level 4 and needing lots of practice to master multi-syllable words.

[frogger]

Just folding the card would be way easier then trying to keep two halves together. Thanks!

 

 

I discovered today that it is better to use a straightened paper clip to break the words in the sentences rather than drawing the line with a pencil when he may need to move the line. We will keep the paperclip handy when he reads the stories tomorrow.

[Jenn in CA]

I decided to back up a bit w/the 2-syllable words (we're in lesson 5). I took a page of them from the fluency drills, and used a card to show only the first syllable. Then I had her just read the first syllable. It's seeing the whole word that makes her guess/freak out. Also, if it's a word she knows how to read, the quality of the vowel (long vs. short) doesn't even register with her because she knows it.

 

Then I wrote out a page of open syllables mixed with a few closed syllables, such as pa, bu, huk, etc.... all nonsense. Tomorrow she'll read that. I think that'll help. She still freezes up when we talk about open vs. closed, long vs. short.

 

You can have my printable for just $5.95 via paypal. Hahaha, just kidding.

 

Does anyone else wonder why Barton does not include this kind of single-syllable practice? At least I don't remember seeing it. 

 

It also reminds me of the old readers, such as McGuffey, etc, that would 1) have pages of syllables to read, 2) break up words by putting spaces between the syllables. Also, how SWR has you write words w/a space between syllables. This would make reading a lot easier for my girls.

 

 

Edited February 2, 2016 by Jenn in CA

[frogger]

I decided to back up a bit w/the 2-syllable words (we're in lesson 5). I took a page of them from the fluency drills, and used a card to show only the first syllable. Then I had her just read the first syllable. It's seeing the whole word that makes her guess/freak out. Also, if it's a word she knows how to read, the quality of the vowel (long vs. short) doesn't even register with her because she knows it.

 

Then I wrote out a page of open syllables mixed with a few closed syllables, such as pa, bu, huk, etc.... all nonsense. Tomorrow she'll read that. I think that'll help. She still freezes up when we talk about open vs. closed, long vs. short.

 

Does anyone else wonder why Barton does not include this kind of single-syllable practice? At least I don't remember seeing it.

 

Lesson 1 of level 4 is basically single open and closed syllables. It just went fairly fast for us, compared to multi-syllable words.

 

I'm glad this thread popped up. My son started guessing too. I think it is easier when the syllables aren't smashed together. Even the tiles are easier than on paper. I'm definitely trying the the note card trick tomorrow.

 

There really isn't enough practice in the lessons for someone with dyslexia well, maybe a mild case. I don't know. I just got my login password from Susan though so maybe I will have more worksheets at my disposal. That plus the extra games and readers may work. I'm thankful for this thread. To hear the slow down in level 4 is normal and that that doesn't mean the rest will just continually be more difficult.

Edited February 3, 2016 by frogger

[MyLittleBears]

 I was starting to loose my mind w/this level. We are on lesson 11 of level 4 and we did the first 8 lessons twice. Glad to know it's not my imagination.  Does anyone have experience with the higher levels? Do they go any faster? With 6 more levels to go, it's a tad overwhelming, considering ds is in 6th grade.

[imagine.more]

Level 5 is way easier! It's suffixes and such and just much easier. The first lesson is on plural s and es. I'm slowing down with Level 5 for my DD because she is deaf and I'm utilizing the suffixes to drill her in new vocabulary, but a hearing kid would breeze through this level imo. Plus it's encouraging because by now they can just decode a lot more words.

 

Also, Level 4 ends on an easier note with a few vowel teams, so that helped us end on a more positive note with DD vs the darned Banana and Confident rules.

[OneStepAtATime]

 

I decided to back up a bit w/the 2-syllable words (we're in lesson 5). I took a page of them from the fluency drills, and used a card to show only the first syllable. Then I had her just read the first syllable. It's seeing the whole word that makes her guess/freak out. Also, if it's a word she knows how to read, the quality of the vowel (long vs. short) doesn't even register with her because she knows it.

 

Then I wrote out a page of open syllables mixed with a few closed syllables, such as pa, bu, huk, etc.... all nonsense. Tomorrow she'll read that. I think that'll help. She still freezes up when we talk about open vs. closed, long vs. short.

 

You can have my printable for just $5.95 via paypal. Hahaha, just kidding.

 

Does anyone else wonder why Barton does not include this kind of single-syllable practice? At least I don't remember seeing it. 

 

It also reminds me of the old readers, such as McGuffey, etc, that would 1) have pages of syllables to read, 2) break up words by putting spaces between the syllables. Also, how SWR has you write words w/a space between syllables. This would make reading a lot easier for my girls.

 

Lesson 1 of level 4 is basically single open and closed syllables. It just went fairly fast for us, compared to multi-syllable words.

I'm glad this thread popped up. My son started guessing too. I think it is easier when the syllables aren't smashed together. Even the tiles are easier than on paper. I'm definitely trying the the note card trick tomorrow.

There really isn't enough practice in the lessons for someone with dyslexia well, maybe a mild case. I don't know. I just got my login password from Susan though so maybe I will have more worksheets at my disposal. That plus the extra games and readers may work. I'm thankful for this thread. To hear the slow down in level 4 is normal and that that doesn't mean the rest will just continually be more difficult.

 

 

 I was starting to loose my mind w/this level. We are on lesson 11 of level 4 and we did the first 8 lessons twice. Glad to know it's not my imagination.  Does anyone have experience with the higher levels? Do they go any faster? With 6 more levels to go, it's a tad overwhelming, considering ds is in 6th grade.

 

 

The practice is in there, but you have to read through and see that Barton is telling tutors if a student is struggling, to slow down, redo lessons, get on the website and download additional material, play the games, etc.  Don't move forward until whatever lesson you are on has been mastered.  That's why there are extra words to work with on each lesson plus additional materials on the website and additional suggestions at the back of the TM, as well as the Post Tests.  If a student is struggling, just moving forward may not help at all.  Pacing is all over the place because each child is different, so some kids won't need extra practice, some will need a little and some will need a ton.  DD really nailed it on some lessons in 4 and with others we had to run through 3 times to get it down.  And we still had to repeat the entire level. It gets frustrating but having finally gotten to the other end of Level 4, and seeing how much better DD is with reading/spelling after this level I am so glad we did repeat lessons. slow down, redo the whole level, etc.  I just wish it were broken up into two levels or smaller leaps or something.  

 

 

Although not everyone has had this same experience, I have been told by others who have used Barton all the way through that Level 4 is almost always the hardest (see the "almost", though).  It is just a bear to get through.  Once you get over this rather tough hump it is USUALLY easier with the other levels.  And most of them are shorter, sometimes by quite a bit.  In fact, I think all but one is shorter.  I know one poster said they didn't have much issue with Level 4 but Level 5 was hard for their child.  However, the majority of people I have seen post about this have said that all the other levels went much faster than Level 4 (like between 2-6 months per level, depending on the child and the level).  Keep in mind that Level 9 and 10 are for High School level material.  In fact, Barton recommends slowing down if your child isn't even yet in Middle School and you hit Level 9 and 10.

 

 

Edited February 3, 2016 by OneStepAtATime

[frogger]

What I meant is I get tired of doing the same words over and over not that I move on but I suppose if he doesn't know them then perhaps he doesn't realize we are doing the same words over and over.

[OneStepAtATime]

What I meant is I get tired of doing the same words over and over not that I move on but I suppose if he doesn't know them then perhaps he doesn't realize we are doing the same words over and over.

Yeah, that got old here, too, at least for me.   :grouphug:

 

But then, the whole process got old for a bit, KWIM?  So discouraging.  I learned to read so easily.  I never anticipated it being this hard for my kids.  Seeing my kids struggle and struggle in the beginning I kept feeling like either the program was failing them or I was.  Once DD especially started really progressing, even though she still has to work really hard, I realized that it is actually just that learning to read/spell is a hard process for them no matter what we use.  

 

I hope you find something that works.  Good luck.

[OneStepAtATime]

Since this thread in particular has so many useful suggestions I am bumping it....

[Kanin]

I'm not doing Barton, but these ideas are so great. I'm immediately going to:

 

1. Use a paperclip instead of drawing lines between syllables

2. Buy or make the two colored, two syllable overlay (so awesome!)

3. Try to make OhE's suggestion of a gel-filled plastic bag to lay over 2-syllable words, and then CHOP! I can see kids LOVING this.

4. Someone technological should definitely make a WordNinja ipad game!!!

 

Thanks SO much!  :laugh:  :hurray:  :lol: