CA A-G requirements

[Roadrunner]

I thought you could only satisfy A-G requirements through subject SAT, but it looks like AP credits are accepted as well. Or am I reading this wrong? According to this link you can either take A-G approved class, take an SAT subject exam, take a college class or an AP exam. 

http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/freshman/requirements/a-g-requirements/

[Arcadia]

AP score of 3 and up works. I'm just lazy to find a AP test center for each test while I have many SAT test centers near me.

[Chrysalis Academy]

You are reading it the same way I am. It adds options, if not clarity, right?

[OlgaLA]

It looks like some of them cannot be satisfied by SAT at all, like arts, geometry, and if I am counting right, it's hard to use SAT for G, as the tests listed will be tied up by other requirements, unless there is a second foreign language from that list  (we do have two, but one of them is Russian, so we are out of luck here). The more I look at it, the more it seems that CC is the best way to get at least some of them out of the way. I still have no idea what I am going to do for geometry.

[yvonne]

Could your student do a summer geometry course at your local brick & mortar public school or accredited private school?  It's offered here (SF bay area) at some public & private high schools. Super expensive, but, if you really want to jump that hoop.....

 

Geometry (and other a-g approved courses) are offered online through UC Scout and BYU.

[OlgaLA]

BYU course looks like it can work for us. Thanks! I didn't quite understand how UCScout works. Do you have to spend a whole year on those courses? My daughter does AOPS Geometry right now so I would prefer something that can be compressed as much as possible.

[Roadrunner]

You are reading it the same way I am. It adds options, if not clarity, right?

Yes, it seems like we have a ton of options. I don't know why I thought it was almost impossible to satisfy those requirements, but looking at this page, it's rather simple.

[yvonne]

Roadrunner & Rose, how do you plan to handle Geometry?

[OlgaLA]

After an hour of googling and going through our CC website yet again, I found the option to do a high school credit class there. Not sure about pricing, i'll need to call them about that, but might actually be cheaper than the alternatives, and we would probably need to go there to test anyway if we go through BYU. From what I understood, they are self-paced, but you must complete them within a year. The only problem I see is that the description says credit recovery, but also adds that the classes can be used to get ahead, etc. Can it be considered a negative by UC?

[Chrysalis Academy]

Roadrunner & Rose, how do you plan to handle Geometry?

 

For A-G purposes, I assume you mean?  Good question. Dd will do Geometry in 9th grade as one of her 4 math credits, but not an a-g approved Geometry. I think we'll just have to use a combo of SAT test, AP Stats (possibly) and JC classes. I'm not going to sweat it too much, it says that the topics of two and three dimensional geometry must be covered, not that you must have an approved class called Geometry.  If she tests into higher math at the JC I don't think that not having "Geometry" that fulfills the a-g requirements is going to be a deal breaker.

[Roadrunner]

Roadrunner & Rose, how do you plan to handle Geometry?

 

I don't know exactly, but one of the options is to get geometry A-G approved through the CA charter school, so we could sign up for a charter for one year to get problematic high school classes on transcript as A-G approved and then we could drop charter and do our own thing for the rest of the high school. My understanding is I could get official high school credit beginning in grade 7, so we could do that early and get it out of our way. 

It seems like my kid will have at least 2 years of math beyond calculus if he continues at his current pace, so I wonder if it really even matters so much for admissions assuming we could show excellent AP and SAT 2 scores + dual enrollment in college math. I am thinking they might just overlook the geometry problem. 

[Arcadia]

It seems like my kid will have at least 2 years of math beyond calculus if he continues at his current pace, so I wonder if it really even matters so much for admissions assuming we could show excellent AP and SAT 2 scores + dual enrollment in college math. I am thinking they might just overlook the geometry problem. 

 

The local public school kids have been taking geometry in 8th grade for years including the graduating class of 2015 and 2016 and none of my school district's middle schools are a-g approved.  Honestly I don't think the UCs care about whether geometry listed in middle school transcript is A-G approved.  Oldest would be done with high school geometry in 6th. I gave up on worrying :)

[Roadrunner]

The local public school kids have been taking geometry in 8th grade for years including the graduating class of 2015 and 2016 and none of my school district's middle schools are a-g approved. Honestly I don't think the UCs care about whether geometry listed in middle school transcript is A-G approved. Oldest would be done with high school geometry in 6th. I gave up on worrying :)

That's how I feel. We will be doing geometry in 6th as well, and officially you can't get a high school class on the transcripts until grade seven. I am just going to make sure we have aops class transcript with the grade for geometry.

Our local schools have moved to integrated math, so no separate geometry at all.

I feel that if we line up most of the ducks, one or two strays won't matter so much.

[yvonne]

My daughter does AOPS Geometry right now so I would prefer something that can be compressed as much as possible.

 

This type of situation is why I finally gave up on jumping a-g hoops. If your daughter is doing AoPS geometry (good for her!), why should she have to do some approved a-g course, too?  Yes, after AoPS, she should be able to blast through any a-g geometry text, but does it make sense for her to have to put any time into doing a second geometry text just to check an arbitrary box?

 

We used a charter in 9th so my boys could label their classes a-g. They did a solid, substantial outside English course and a solid French course, but, to hit those a-g required assignments, they also had to do silly busywork on top of what they were doing for the outside courses. The busywork didn't add any value other than checking that a-g box. After last year's hoop jumping, with all its wasted time, we decided to stop worrying about a-g. It just isn't worth it for us. Our teens will need to go the test route, if they want to apply to the UCs. I think it will be fine.

 

The son of someone on this list did the same and had no issues getting into UCB and other UCs. If you know your student tests well and will be covering the necessary material even if it's not an a-g course, I think the testing route makes a lot of sense.

 

I don't know, though, if the a-g geometry requirement can be met through testing. The folks at the charter said no, but they've been known to be wrong. :)

 

[MarkT]

Could your student do a summer geometry course at your local brick & mortar public school or accredited private school?  It's offered here (SF bay area) at some public & private high schools. Super expensive, but, if you really want to jump that hoop.....

 

Geometry (and other a-g approved courses) are offered online through UC Scout and BYU.

 

Do CA umbrella charters count as a "California Public School"?

If so Scout may be free??

 

"

If you are a California Public School student, parent, teacher or administrator you may be eligible for free access to our courses.

In order to verify your school's status with Scout, please fill out the form below. If your school is eligible, a promotional code will be emailed to you. You will be able to use this during the registration process.

"

[SeaConquest]

Do CA umbrella charters count as a "California Public School"?

If so Scout may be free??

 

"

If you are a California Public School student, parent, teacher or administrator you may be eligible for free access to our courses.

In order to verify your school's status with Scout, please fill out the form below. If your school is eligible, a promotional code will be emailed to you. You will be able to use this during the registration process.

"

 

So-called "homeschool charters" are not umbrella schools. They are public schools with independent study programs in place for their students. So, yes, Scout would be free to a child enrolled in one, as the kids are legally public school students. Having said that, I expect that we will abandon our charter by high school, as the hoop-jumping becomes too onerous by that point for my blood.

[OlgaLA]

 

I don't know, though, if the a-g geometry requirement can be met through testing. The folks at the charter said no, but they've been known to be wrong. :)

 

 

This page http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/counselors/freshman/minimum-requirements/subject-requirement/index.html  says in bold letters that geometry cannot be satisfied by any testing. However, admission by examination states that if you have high enough test scores, you are exempted from these requirements. And the scores required for that, while not exactly low, are still lower than their average for admitted students. Of course, I still think it is better to cover the requirements, just in case. The less they have to ignore, the better, IMO.

 

 

[Ellie]

Do CA umbrella charters count as a "California Public School"?

If so Scout may be free??

 

"

If you are a California Public School student, parent, teacher or administrator you may be eligible for free access to our courses.

In order to verify your school's status with Scout, please fill out the form below. If your school is eligible, a promotional code will be emailed to you. You will be able to use this during the registration process.

"

 

Charter schools are public schools, not "umbrella" schools. Students enrolled in them are public school students and as such don't need any sort of "umbrella." An "umbrella" school (a term that does not exist in California, BTW) is an entity which fulfills the law regarding homeschooled students.

 

Also, in California there is a difference between an Independent Study Program (ISP) and a charter school. FYI. :-)

[SeaConquest]

Charter schools are public schools, not "umbrella" schools. Students enrolled in them are public school students and as such don't need any sort of "umbrella." An "umbrella" school (a term that does not exist in California, BTW) is an entity which fulfills the law regarding homeschooled students.

 

Also, in California there is a difference between an Independent Study Program (ISP) and a charter school. FYI. :-)

 

There is also a difference between an independent study program at a charter school and an ISP, which are private schools (hence my use of the lower case to denote the former). :)

[Ellie]

There is also a difference between an independent study program at a charter school and an ISP, which are private schools (hence my use of the lower case to denote the former). :)

 

"ISP" is a term that people began using back in the 80s to describe private schools which enrolled homeschoolers. The theory was that since public schools could have ISPs, then private schools could, as well. However, as time went on and there were more interactions between public school officials (and others, such as CPS) and homeschoolers, it became clear that using the term "ISP" was confusing to public school people, since they knew what an ISP was (something set up by an individual public school, a school district, or a county, the key words being "public school"), and private school programs didn't fit that paradigm. So Roy Hanson/Family Protection Ministries began encouraging people to say that their children were actually enrolled in...private schools, which is true: Private schools which enroll only children who are taught at home by their parents file exactly the same affidavit annually as private schools which are campus-based. Saying "ISP" was just muddying the waters. The court case some years ago cleared that up by using the term "Private School Satellite Programs." Some homeschoolers have been slow to make the change to PSP, as they were slow in changing from "ISP" to "private school."

 

The organizers of a charter school decide from the beginning whether the school will be campus-based or home-based; IOW, it is part of the charter. Charter schools have way more complex rules than ISPs do. Students enroll in charter schools. There's no need to say that students are enrolled in an independent study program of a charter school; the charter school itself is home-based, not campus-based.

 

Any public school may set up an ISP for a single student who is sick or injured or traveling with family. It may set up an ISP for students who are at risk, and there could even be a campus involved. A school district may set up an ISP specifically for children who are being taught at home by their parents. A county may set up an ISP for all of the children in the county, in which case children may enroll in that if their own school district does not have an ISP, or if the district they live in will give them transfers.

 

It is conceivable that a charter school might also have an ISP, but it isn't likely. It's usually one or the other: charter school or ISP.

[yvonne]

Do CA umbrella charters count as a "California Public School"?

If so Scout may be free??

 

 

Yes, CA charters are technically "California Public Schools," so, yes, Scout is free through a charter.

 

Although a CA charter is a "public school,"  you can still home school pretty freely under them from K-8. There are definite advantages to using a charter for high school in CA, beyond the student funds you can use toward classes/materials, but there are a lot of hoops at the high school level, as one would expect with any public/governmental organization.

 

If you use a charter in order to get that a-g designation, there are even more hoops. Having done a year of those hoops for my oldests' 9th grade year, if I absolutely had to get an a-g designation for a course, I'd use Scout (oh, the tedium!) or BYU instead of a charter.

 

[Roadrunner]

Yes, I hear there are more hoops in high school to jump. For K-8 our charter requires just testing, which in our case is welcome, because it really pacified the entire family to see the kids top out on those exams and gave me a rock star status. :) Our charter will pay for TWTM online classes, so I could really use $4k on those and private instrument instruction.

I have a friend doing an A-G foreign language class through a charter and she says it means a bit more documentation but still nothing overwhelming. My biggest problem is the textbook selection is limited in high school, so I don't think I would be willing to stay in the system just to have classes A-G approved, since if as it looks now, the A-G requirements are really not as big of the problem as they appear at first glance.

[SeaConquest]

 

The organizers of a charter school decide from the beginning whether the school will be campus-based or home-based; IOW, it is part of the charter. Charter schools have way more complex rules than ISPs do. Students enroll in charter schools. There's no need to say that students are enrolled in an independent study program of a charter school; the charter school itself is home-based, not campus-based.

 

It is conceivable that a charter school might also have an ISP, but it isn't likely. It's usually one or the other: charter school or ISP.

 

Every semester, we have to sign a Master Agreement that sets forth the terms of the independent study program at our charter. You work with your EF to decide on the modalities of learning, etc. Our charter is also a hybrid of (optional) campus-based learning centers throughout Southern California, and independent home study with parent teachers. It's not an either/or at many charter schools in California. Personally, I love the hybrid model. It gives us the best of both worlds -- enrichment classes with peers (stuff like art, music, foreign language, programming/robotics, etc.) and rigorous core subjects via our homeschool. I know that it doesn't work for everyone, and that we will likely leave the charter at some point, but it is a great fit for us at present.

[yvonne]

I love the hybrid model. It gives us the best of both worlds -- enrichment classes with peers (stuff like art, music, foreign language, programming/robotics, etc.) and rigorous core subjects via our homeschool.

 

I think we would have loved a hybrid model, too. How fun! I don't think there are any like that near us, though. Like any class, I'm sure quality is dependent on the individual teacher, but there can be some gems in those situations!

[yvonne]

Yes, I hear there are more hoops in high school to jump. For K-8 our charter requires just testing, which in our case is welcome, because it really pacified the entire family to see the kids top out on those exams and gave me a rock star status. :)

Here, too! :)  We do testing even when we're not in a charter because we want the standardized test practice.

 

I have a friend doing an A-G foreign language class through a charter and she says it means a bit more documentation but still nothing overwhelming. My biggest problem is the textbook selection is limited in high school, so I don't think I would be willing to stay in the system just to have classes A-G approved, since if as it looks now, the A-G requirements are really not as big of the problem as they appear at first glance.

It's charter dependent. At our charter last year, we had to submit a list of specific, non-negotiable "key assignments" for foreign language. We were able to substitute some of the assignments that our students were already doing for their class, but there were some silly assignments that an academically serious class wouldn't include that just added busywork. But we knew we'd have hoops when we signed up. This year, the charter's requirements have changed and there's supposedly more flexibility. It's hard to know how onerous any given charter will be, esp. with regard to a-g courses, until you do it or talk to someone who has used it for whatever grade you're looking at.

 

 

 

 

 

[Arcadia]

Yes, I hear there are more hoops in high school to jump.

 

For my oldest, the hoops for taking geometry in 5th grade would be that it would be daily online (Elluminate, fixed time) lessons,  daily written homework to be emailed to his assigned math teacher and his geometry grades would be counted in his high school GPA.  So the hoops increase substantially for what our previous charter count as high school subjects.  He could test out of algebra 1 since they don't count that as a high school subject.

 

At this point they are not interested in the local UCs and CSUs.  If they change their mind, we'll got for the SAT/ACT and two SAT subject tests route. UCB engin (and many others) wants SAT Math 2 and a science SAT anyway.

[MarkT]

Every semester, we have to sign a Master Agreement that sets forth the terms of the independent study program at our charter. You work with your EF to decide on the modalities of learning, etc. Our charter is also a hybrid of (optional) campus-based learning centers throughout Southern California, and independent home study with parent teachers. It's not an either/or at many charter schools in California. Personally, I love the hybrid model. It gives us the best of both worlds -- enrichment classes with peers (stuff like art, music, foreign language, programming/robotics, etc.) and rigorous core subjects via our homeschool. I know that it doesn't work for everyone, and that we will likely leave the charter at some point, but it is a great fit for us at present.

Can you take Derek Owens or other such providers for the home-school component of the charter?  If so then this is a very good charter model.

 

In AZ it is all or nothing

1)  regular public school taking all classes there*

2)  B & M charter public taking all classes there*

3) virtual charter public taking all classes there

 

   *  some schools allow community college courses for a Junior or Senior that has exhausted school offerings such as math (but you pay for most)

 

 I would have loved to outsource a few critical math and science classes

[Roadrunner]

For my oldest, the hoops for taking geometry in 5th grade would be that it would be daily online (Elluminate, fixed time) lessons,  daily written homework to be emailed to his assigned math teacher and his geometry grades would be counted in his high school GPA.  So the hoops increase substantially for what our previous charter count as high school subjects.  He could test out of algebra 1 since they don't count that as a high school subject.

 

At this point they are not interested in the local UCs and CSUs.  If they change their mind, we'll got for the SAT/ACT and two SAT subject tests route. UCB engin (and many others) wants SAT Math 2 and a science SAT anyway.

 

Daily???? Ga! That would put an end to it for us! 

 

We were told no high school credit until 7th grade at all, geometry or algebra. 

[SeaConquest]

Can you take Derek Owens or other such providers for the home-school component of the charter?  If so then this is a very good charter model.

 

In AZ it is all or nothing

1)  regular public school taking all classes there*

2)  B & M charter public taking all classes there*

3) virtual charter public taking all classes there

 

   *  some schools allow community college courses for a Junior or Senior that has exhausted school offerings such as math (but you pay for most)

 

 I would have loved to outsource a few critical math and science classes

 

Yes, you can, and if the provider is a vendor for the charter, they will pay for it as well. For high school, most people here who stick with the charter seem to mostly dual enroll at the community college for A-G. I just don't think we will to go the community college route in high school. I imagine that we will use a combination of outsourced APs and DE at the local UC school for added rigor. But, that is *very* far off for us, and I have no idea what the rules for CA charters will be in a decade. 

[SeaConquest]

Daily???? Ga! That would put an end to it for us! 

 

We were told no high school credit until 7th grade at all, geometry or algebra. 

 

I tried to talk to my EF about the policy for early high school courses, and she looked at me like I had two heads. It didn't bolster my confidence in sticking with the charter long-term. I figure that we will cross that bridge when we get to it.   

[Roadrunner]

I tried to talk to my EF about the policy for early high school courses, and she looked at me like I had two heads. It didn't bolster my confidence in sticking with the charter long-term. I figure that we will cross that bridge when we get to it.   

My ES is on top of things. She is also in charge of some subjects for high school for the charter. I must say I am lucky, because I really look forward to her monthly visits, so we could chat homeschool over a cup of coffee. Not a lot of people around me care to talk about homeschooling.  :D

[quark]

Of interest...

Fact Sheet: Geometry Requirements for Freshman Applicants Revised Sept 2015

[Roadrunner]

Of interest...

Fact Sheet: Geometry Requirements for Freshman Applicants Revised Sept 2015

This is even less trouble. Under their Principal Certification, we could just demonstrate comparability. Simple enough.

[yvonne]

This is even less trouble. Under their Principal Certification, we could just demonstrate comparability. Simple enough.

 

The Principal Certification option is not available after 2012-13.

 

"Important Note: Using principal certification for non-UC-approved online courses to fulfill the “a-g†subject requirements is acceptable only through the 2012-13 academic year. Beginning with the 2013-14 academic year, students may only use UC-approved online courses to satisfy their subject requirements. The principal certification process for online courses cannot be used for the laboratory science (“dâ€) and visual and performing arts (“fâ€) subject areas."

 

A UC, a-g approved geometry course must be critical to a human's future for them to put so much focus on it.

[Roadrunner]

The Principal Certification option is not available after 2012-13.

 

"Important Note: Using principal certification for non-UC-approved online courses to fulfill the “a-g†subject requirements is acceptable only through the 2012-13 academic year. Beginning with the 2013-14 academic year, students may only use UC-approved online courses to satisfy their subject requirements. The principal certification process for online courses cannot be used for the laboratory science (“dâ€) and visual and performing arts (“fâ€) subject areas."

 

A UC, a-g approved geometry course must be critical to a human's future for them to put so much focus on it.

I misread. :(

[quark]

I think they just want to see a year of geometry as opposed to no geometry or 1 semester.

[Chrysalis Academy]

 

 

A UC, a-g approved geometry course must be critical to a human's future for them to put so much focus on it.

 

I know, right? It's kind of weird. Maybe they are worried that with less math in the SAT, schools will de-emphasize geometry in their new CC Integrated Math courses? I haven't seen any other subject penned in quite so rigorously.

[quark]

I might be way off base but the geometry requirement might have something to do with breadth requirements/ gen ed requirements where students have to take and score (C and above?) in an approved quantitative reasoning course in order to graduate. Perhaps students were under prepared? Or they realized that their earlier requirement of 500 something on SAT subject test fulfilling 4 years (iirc) of high school math as being too geometry light. Maybe schools were skimping on geometry?

[quark]

DP

[yvonne]

I misread. :(

 

You were thinking there could be a logical solution to the problem.  :)  I'm cynical enough at this point that I went looking for the catch.

[Roadrunner]

. Maybe schools were skimping on geometry?

Interestingly integrated math 2 satisfies geometry requirement for UC. I once saw the textbook our school uses for that class, and i remember thinking that it didn't gave that much more than what my kid covered in geo in his aops prealgebra book.

[quark]

Interestingly integrated math 2 satisfies geometry requirement for UC. I once saw the textbook our school uses for that class, and i remember thinking that it didn't gave that much more than what my kid covered in geo in his aops prealgebra book.

 

I spoke to a couple of parents from a very top rated school district in the SF Bay Area about their children's HS geometry curriculum and apparently it was proof-free (proof-less? lacking-proofs? :glare: ). I think it's either something to do with $$ or low preparation for college level math or both.

 

[Arcadia]

I spoke to a couple of parents from a very top rated school district in the SF Bay Area about their children's HS geometry curriculum and apparently it was proof-free (proof-less? lacking-proofs? :glare: ).

 

The pearson common core text that is used for 8th grade geometry by my district does have the two column proofs. The older holt geometry textbooks have the two column proofs too.

 

It would be weird for the teacher to skip the simple two column proof chapters.

 

E.g (not my local school but same textbook)

http://www.fallriverschools.org/Homework%20on%20Proofs%20for%20Section%202_6.pdf

 

OT:

Oracle is going to build and fund a high school next to their redwood shores campus.

"The school will be free and open to any student living in California."http://m.sfgate.com/business/technology/article/Oracle-to-build-high-school-on-its-Silicon-Valley-6593434.php

[Arcadia]

UCB now might request recommendation letters. Only UC to do so at the moment according to LA Times

 

"In April 2015, UC Berkeley adopted a new freshman admission policy. Starting in fall 2015, some applicants to UC Berkeley will be invited to submit two letters of recommendation. This will be optional and not required."

 

http://admissions.berkeley.edu/freshmanpolicy

[Roadrunner]

UCB now might request recommendation letters. Only UC to do so at the moment according to LA Times

 

"In April 2015, UC Berkeley adopted a new freshman admission policy. Starting in fall 2015, some applicants to UC Berkeley will be invited to submit two letters of recommendation. This will be optional and not required."

 

http://admissions.berkeley.edu/freshmanpolicy

I thought all schools required letters of recommendation. I remember submitting them. Or is it usually just for grad school?

[Arcadia]

I thought all schools required letters of recommendation. I remember submitting them. Or is it usually just for grad school?

"UC does not require (nor read) letters of recommendation at the time of application. A campus may ask for them later as part of a supplemental review, so be sure to check your email."

 

http://admission.universityofcalifornia.edu/how-to-apply/apply-online/