mommymilkies Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 We will be moving to New York soon from a no-regulation state. I have the regulations copied from the state code. I was wondering some more specific things that are confusing me. You can pm me for my location. Not NYC. ;) 1. Does anyone have links to example IHIPs and plans for high school? I think I can do the younger kids, but high school is one I'm not sure about and couldn't find examples for. 2. Any idea how college credit already earned for a rising high schooler can be counted or recorded? We actually start her school years in January and school year round for my oldest child as that's her preference, so I'm not sure about moving into the school year there and how that will translate. 3. These requirements below-do they have to be formal curricula or is an informal survey of the topics good enough? Health will be covered by my 5th and 9th graders texts this year, but the other ones we just talk about anyway. If you've covered them on the quarterly reports, how have you recorded them? I know this sounds simple, but I'm just really overthinking all of this and I'm overwhelmed. Patriotism and citizenshipHealth education regarding alcohol, drug and tobacco misuse Highway safety and traffic regulation, including bicycle safety Fire and arson prevention and safety 4. For these requirements, what sources would you recommend? In particular for kids in grades K-8? New York State history Constitutions of the United States and New York State (I can probably use our US constitution books, but the NYS ones are an issue) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 We will be moving to New York soon from a no-regulation state. I have the regulations copied from the state code. I was wondering some more specific things that are confusing me. You can pm me for my location. Not NYC. ;) 1. Does anyone have links to example IHIPs and plans for high school? I think I can do the younger kids, but high school is one I'm not sure about and couldn't find examples for. 2. Any idea how college credit already earned for a rising high schooler can be counted or recorded? We actually start her school years in January and school year round for my oldest child as that's her preference, so I'm not sure about moving into the school year there and how that will translate. 3. These requirements below-do they have to be formal curricula or is an informal survey of the topics good enough? Health will be covered by my 5th and 9th graders texts this year, but the other ones we just talk about anyway. If you've covered them on the quarterly reports, how have you recorded them? I know this sounds simple, but I'm just really overthinking all of this and I'm overwhelmed. Patriotism and citizenshipHealth education regarding alcohol, drug and tobacco misuse Highway safety and traffic regulation, including bicycle safety Fire and arson prevention and safety 4. For these requirements, what sources would you recommend? In particular for kids in grades K-8? New York State history Constitutions of the United States and New York State (I can probably use our US constitution books, but the NYS ones are an issue) This is what my friend Amy recommended. She hsed in NY for a long time and was involved in leadership stuff. Please note that she is not an attorney and does not play one on TV. Also, a comment from Julie (ditto): You are required to keep attendance records and submit them upon request [which doesn't happen too often...]. print out a one-page year-long calendar. at the top, write "Attendance Record for [insert child's name here]" under that, write "Absences marked with an X" File it away and produce it if necessary. DONE. Note: you are NOT required to keep lesson plans or student work. Claim the work and move on. You do NOT have to document hours, so just claim them and forget about it :-) file it away Politics of the homeschool groups: There are 2 homeschooling “factions†in NY: LEAH [Christian] and NYHEN [secular]. LEAH has several chapters thru out the state. NYHEN is more of a loose coalition of independent secular groups and more Yahoo-groups-discussion oriented. I learned more about homeschooling in general thru LEAH, and more about the regs in specific thru NYHEN. NYHEN seems to have a bit of a beef against LEAH and HSLDA [i’ve seen it get down right vitriolic sometimes]; LEAH tends to lean towards placating school officials: i.e. send in your paperwork return receipt requested to cover your bu** [while NYHEN asserts that this is not necessary and puts you more in a defensive mode]. I’m more of an “assert your rights†kinda gal, and knew exactly what the school district can and can not do. My best advice for NY? learn your regs!!! be able to quote them! Check out this site first: http://nyhen.org/RegsSum.htm, *especially* read the part about “Revised Questions and Answers on Home Instruction -- 85 questions and answers on some aspects of the regulations which the State Education Department considers important†BECAUSE that is info straight from the state, not other homeschoolers. No bias problems there, eh? LOL! Print it out and have it on hand. I’m not sure if LEAH includes it in their own manual, but I suggest getting one of their manuals anyway. very helpful :-) Here are some basics: First, you need to notify the school district [*not* the local school or principal] every year. This is called your Letter of Intent [LOI]. The regs state that it should be in by July 1, but the regs also allow for it being in w/in fifteen days of deciding [or “commencingâ€] you will be homeschooling. You can simply take the position that you will be reassessing your child’s educational needs on a year-by-year basis and NOT worry about getting your LOI in till the end of August if that suits you better :-) Once you have sent in your LOI, you need to send in an Individual Home Instruction Plan [iHIP]. This is simply a one-page sheet [per child] that lists all subjects required to be taught [see the regs] and what you plan to use for instruction [curriculum, internet, library, co-op, etc etc]. The school district can NOT decide if what you use is “ok;†they can only check to make sure that the subject *will* be taught: YOU are in charge of deciding how to teach. You can unschool in NY if you write up your IHIP correctly :-) Don’t forget a disclaimer on your IHIP: “These plans are subject to change as needed for the child’s educational benefit.†You will need to pick 4 dates [somewhat evenly spaced] that tell when you will be sending in your Quarterly reports {Quarterlies}. Pick a time that you know will not be stressful; putting down December as a quarterly date is asking for STRESS, lol! Usually some time the beginning of November, January, March, and end of May/June. Your school year does NOT have to follow the school district’s. Quarterly reports: This is basically your IHIP’s subject list, accompanied by how much of your “curriculum†you’ve covered, like lessons 1-50 in a workbook [if using library books, maybe 5 topics covered], and an assessment/grade level. I always put down “satisfactory†even my kid is a flipping genius. Period. For “hours of instruction,†you are supposed to claim the hours but you are not required to DOCUMENT them anywhere except on those quarterlies and the state is NOT allowed to request “proof†of your hours; they can’t see lesson plans or daily schedules. Simply claim 255+ hours and be done w/ it. Many people use their IHIP that they typed up, copy it into another document, delete what they don’t need, and start updating it :-) Attendance records: You are required to document [and produce said documentation upon request] that your child attended 180 days of school. find a school-year calendar [9 months on one page]. --check donnayoung.org— At the top, write “Attendance Record for [child’s name]â€. Under that, write “Absences Marked w/ an Xâ€. File it. Done. You are required to do 180 days of school. YOU decide what counts as a day of school. You may decide to do 2 days’ worth of work in one day. Do your school work the way YOU want to do it, and don’t worry about the specific day count. Again: claim it, but you aren’t required to keep lesson plans, children’s work, or anything else except your attendance record. Testing: You are required to use a state-approved standardized test starting in 4th grade. Technically, you are s’posed to test “every other year beginning in 4th grade,†so 4th grade can be your “other†year and you can put off testing till 5th grade. there are about a dozen tests recognized by the state Ed. Dept., and the PASS test is one of them. Also, you do NOT have to send in your students’ results unless the district throws a fit; you simply have to say that they scored “at or above the 33d percentile.†For tests that require a certified teacher, ask your local groups or private Christian schools. More at NYHEN.org. End of year assessment: You are allowed to give a narrative of your child’s progress. The easiest? “[Child’s Name] has satisfactorily completed his school work for the 2004-2005 school year. Please see IHIP and Quarterly Reports for more details.†DONE! All in all, your file of “paperwork†for NY would look like this: one page w/ 3 sentences on it as your LOI one page for your IHIP. 4 one-page quarterly reports one page end of year assessment Home visits? Absolutely not allowed unless you are on probation [see the regs] AND they ARE REQUIRED to give you three days’ notice by certified mail. That’s what I remember being the stickler parts when i was in NY; i may be forgetting something, but you can always post a Q on the NYHEN board and get immediate -and usually very good- answers. More links: nyhen.org [join their NYHEN-support list and read the regs and State’s Q&A’s regarding homeschooling] leah.org [EXCELLENT convention in Syracuse! Highly recommended!] homeschooling in NY is really simple, surprisingly. And if you get a packet of info from your school district that requires lots of intrusive forms to fill out, simply IGNORE it. I take a very “make them prove they are communicating w/ me†approach :-). If you actually get a school district that asks you questions, simply quote the regs to them. If they persist, a simple “I will be having my attorney contact you if you continue to request information that is not w/in your rights to ask. Please contact the State Education Department to clarify what your responsibilities truly are. you can find these at [give them the state’s website on Q&A’s on homeschooling]. Have a nice day.†Click. I *never* had the school district call me. One gal actually stopped by once. Her: “We haven’t received your forms for homeschooling-- are you still doing that?†me: “Yes. I have sent them in. I can send a duplicate copy if you’d like.†Her: “That would be fine. Thank You!†Off she went. Easy peasy. Notice I didn’t offer her a copy then and there, lol! I do suggest joining HSLDA the first year-- at least until you are comfortable w/ your knowledge of the regs and know more about the atmosphere towards homeschooling in your district. From Julie in NY: In the area of end of the year testing: 4th - 8th requires every other year (and yes, 4th can be your other year so you can start in 5th and then in 7th). Narratives can only be done in grades 1-8. Yearly testing must be done in grades 9-12 using an approved test (such as Iowa, Standford, etc.) I have also used the ACT, PSAT, and Sat and they have never questioned me. You must notify them when you turn in your 3rd quarterly report of the test you will use for your end-of-year assessment. If they ask for your scores, you must submit them. I used to say "Scores available upon request" and often they never asked. The district I am in now always asks, so I just say "Scores available the end of August." Then I send them in. You are only required to submit Core test scores. Full scores (social studies, etc.) can be submitted or omitted according to your choice. (Sometimes it's easier to just xerox the whole thing - up to you.) IHIPs are due Aug.15 OR within 4 weeks after receiving notice from the school district that they received your letter of intent. Note: sometimes I put down a book that is supplementary and just say "selected portions". That way I'm not tied down to a specific amount and have to justify my 80%. Also, I often cite "topics covered" on my quarterlies if it fits better than "chapters covered". As to attendance, this silly regulation IS required, but I have never kept records and they have never asked. I always put down on my quarterlies “Days absent: 0“ and I've never had a problem. I figure if they are at home, they aren't absent regardless of whether we do any schoolwork that day or not. We make it up on another day if they are sick and just don't count the sick day as school. HTH! Julie 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparklyUnicorn Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 You can also join NYHEN and pose questions as needed. In general the regs are mostly busy work nonsense. Probably the only "problem" I've encountered is that I don't get responses to stuff anymore or if I do it's very late. For example, I got my "IHIP" is in compliance letter 2 days ago for the IHIP I submitted in 2014. So....yeah... I hate that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuzu822 Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 3. These requirements below-do they have to be formal curricula or is an informal survey of the topics good enough? Health will be covered by my 5th and 9th graders texts this year, but the other ones we just talk about anyway. If you've covered them on the quarterly reports, how have you recorded them? I know this sounds simple, but I'm just really overthinking all of this and I'm overwhelmed. Patriotism and citizenshipHealth education regarding alcohol, drug and tobacco misuse Highway safety and traffic regulation, including bicycle safety Fire and arson prevention and safety Most of these I roll into health. I just add on my quarterly when I list what we've covered. Patriotism and citizenship can be considered part of history and geography. Sometimes I add civic holidays to my quarterlies, and call that good (e.g. Martin Luther King, Jr. Day or Presidents' Day). 4. For these requirements, what sources would you recommend? In particular for kids in grades K-8? New York State history Constitutions of the United States and New York State (I can probably use our US constitution books, but the NYS ones are an issue) For NYS history, I would consider field trips to many of the great historic sites to be plenty. One fun idea is to list all the historic landmarks in your county and visit to learn the story behind them. I got that idea from my mom who taught in NY for 30+ years. There are usually dozens! I'm going to PM you too to see if we'll be neighbors and if I can help with this area specifically. And yes! Join NYHEN! http://www.nyhen.org 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommymilkies Posted August 9, 2015 Author Share Posted August 9, 2015 Thank you all so much! That's a lot of help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 If you scroll down some there is a link to a 5th grade unschooler's IHIP on this page: http://homeschoolnyc.com/homeschooling-ten-steps/records.html#ihip I listed a list of topics covered (kind of like the stuff about 1st grade math in the template). I didn't list the materials I'll use, but this is my first year submitting an IHIP and I haven't heard back yet. I have an unschooling friend and her IHIP is very bare bones and in Buffalo ISD they're cool with that (I'm not in that ISD though, but from what I heard none of the ISDs around here are hard to deal with - I haven't heard of anyone having problems around here, though most people do list textbooks). For NYS history/constitution I found a used 4th grade PS textbook at Savers for a few bucks. I'll read over some of the constitution stuff with C at some point. I already did a field trip for NYS history (school year starts July 1st, because the public school school year ends June 30th - of course, you don't have to do school in summer, PS doesn't even start until Sep 9th or something, but if you do anything after July 1st it counts toward the coming school year). It's also my understanding (and I'm not a lawyer either) that while the state says you need to teach a, b, and c, and says you need to teach 180 days/900 hours, they don't say you need to teach subject a for x hours and subject b for y hours or anything. So, yes, you need to teach arson safety (does the state even know what arson is? I mean, really, I have to teach arson safety? - kids, be careful to not burn yourself when committing arson!), and the NYS constitution, but you don't have to spend hours on them (if I'm wrong, someone please correct me). I just Googled and found this for NYS history: http://www.glencoe.com/sites/new_york/teacher/socialstudies/assets/NYStateHistory.pdf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 If you scroll down some there is a link to a 5th grade unschooler's IHIP on this page: http://homeschoolnyc.com/homeschooling-ten-steps/records.html#ihip I listed a list of topics covered (kind of like the stuff about 1st grade math in the template). I didn't list the materials I'll use, but this is my first year submitting an IHIP and I haven't heard back yet. I have an unschooling friend and her IHIP is very bare bones and in Buffalo ISD they're cool with that (I'm not in that ISD though, but from what I heard none of the ISDs around here are hard to deal with - I haven't heard of anyone having problems around here, though most people do list textbooks). For NYS history/constitution I found a used 4th grade PS textbook at Savers for a few bucks. I'll read over some of the constitution stuff with C at some point. I already did a field trip for NYS history (school year starts July 1st, because the public school school year ends June 30th - of course, you don't have to do school in summer, PS doesn't even start until Sep 9th or something, but if you do anything after July 1st it counts toward the coming school year). It's also my understanding (and I'm not a lawyer either) that while the state says you need to teach a, b, and c, and says you need to teach 180 days/900 hours, they don't say you need to teach subject a for x hours and subject b for y hours or anything. So, yes, you need to teach arson safety (does the state even know what arson is? I mean, really, I have to teach arson safety? - kids, be careful to not burn yourself when committing arson!), and the NYS constitution, but you don't have to spend hours on them (if I'm wrong, someone please correct me). I just Googled and found this for NYS history: http://www.glencoe.com/sites/new_york/teacher/socialstudies/assets/NYStateHistory.pdf The law doesn't require you to *prove* how many hours/days. You claim the hours and call it good. I would have no problems doing that. You also don't have to provide a list of curriculum materials, because "a list of the syllabi, curriculum materials, textbooks, or a plan of instruction." You complied with the law by listing topics covered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 The law doesn't require you to *prove* how many hours/days. You claim the hours and call it good. I would have no problems doing that. You also don't have to provide a list of curriculum materials, because "a list of the syllabi, curriculum materials, textbooks, or a plan of instruction." You complied with the law by listing topics covered. Yes, I got that you don't need to prove how many hours. My point was that you don't even have to do any specific number of hours on any specific subject either, as long as the grand total of teaching time adds up to enough hours. So, it's my understanding that I could spend one hour on math the coming year, doing a quick review of the topics I wrote down in the IHIP, and spend the remaining 899 hours on other subjects. Of course, I wouldn't want C to fall behind in math (unlikely to happen since he's ahead), but it's not like I have to do math for 100 hours or w/e either. I am planning on spending more than a single hour on mathy stuff though. :) When testing time comes, I want C's math scores to pull his overall percentile up because 33rd percentile is kind of scary when your kid has language issues. Of course, the plan is to be out of NYS by the time we *have* to test him, but still. Strong math skills never hurt anyone (afaik). And yes, it's my understanding that my IHIP complies with the law. I just don't want to tell someone new that my IHIP is all cool because I haven't heard from the school district yet. A disclaimer saying that I haven't had a response to what I did seemed in order. It might be easier to get a district to say "yep, looks good!" if you actually write down some materials (whether in the specific or in the general). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 Yes, I got that you don't need to prove how many hours. My point was that you don't even have to do any specific number of hours on any specific subject either, as long as the grand total of teaching time adds up to enough hours. So, it's my understanding that I could spend one hour on math the coming year, doing a quick review of the topics I wrote down in the IHIP, and spend the remaining 899 hours on other subjects. Of course, I wouldn't want C to fall behind in math (unlikely to happen since he's ahead), but it's not like I have to do math for 100 hours or w/e either. I am planning on spending more than a single hour on mathy stuff though. :) When testing time comes, I want C's math scores to pull his overall percentile up because 33rd percentile is kind of scary when your kid has language issues. Of course, the plan is to be out of NYS by the time we *have* to test him, but still. Strong math skills never hurt anyone (afaik). And yes, it's my understanding that my IHIP complies with the law. I just don't want to tell someone new that my IHIP is all cool because I haven't heard from the school district yet. A disclaimer saying that I haven't had a response to what I did seemed in order. It might be easier to get a district to say "yep, looks good!" if you actually write down some materials (whether in the specific or in the general). I mentioned it for the sake of others who might not be clear on those points. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 I mentioned it for the sake of others who might not be clear on those points. :001_smile: Okay, all good. :) ETA: and of course, don't write down anything not required by the state on the IHIP unless you want to feel like you're being "held accountable" to teach it. So, I wrote down Dutch, because it somehow has trouble being high enough up on my priority list otherwise (and that's the only thing I wrote down that wasn't on the mandatory list). But don't write down "underwater basketweaving" unless you're 100% sure you want to be compelled to teach it. If SHTF, it's easier to deal with just very minimal requirements. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Based on Faith Academy Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 I'm homeschooling in NYS. You are free to pm me with questions. I have a senior and 4th grader. Regarding the hours, some districts require more than others. The district we live in now requires you to say that you met the requirement for hours for that subject so in reality you do have to teach your dc for so many hours per subject. The last district I was in was more relaxed. This district requires you to kind of register the kids with them even though the regs say you don't really have to. The positive thing that came out of it was when they gave the student's dictionaries in school they also sent my dd one. Plus they will allow us to use their gym and science equipment. One thing to keep in mind since you are moving into one of the strictest states regarding home schooling, try to make it easier on yourself by letting the little things go in regards to arguing with your district about rules. I go to a church of 350 people and about 90% homeschool so if you pm me your district I can probably get an idea for you about how they are. In the 10 years of homeschooling here, I haven't heard of any districts that try to make you do more than is legally required or is unreasonable. Plus we have a homeschool group that meets at our church but you don't have to be a part of the church to join the group. I do want to say in regards to NYS requirements, I am glad they require us to be accountable. I have no doubt so many people would do the bare minimum if they could. I'm not looking to turn your thread into a personal rights arguement. I just wanted to say in my opinion accountability is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 The state regs supersede the district regs. I have found our school district just wanted the information. No one in the superintendents office has time to micromanage the homeschooling records. We stop sending in reports at the end of the year when the children reach 16, age to drop out. They have both been admitted into good state and private universities. ;) We have not found our district amenable to giving a high school diploma to home schoolers so the records in their office would not have helped us. We do not use curriculum for the safety stuff. We teach it and say it's done. The PASS test is easy to administer at home and is not timed. CAT tests worked well for high school. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Based on Faith Academy Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Agree with everything Starr said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luuknam Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Regarding the hours, some districts require more than others. The district we live in now requires you to say that you met the requirement for hours for that subject so in reality you do have to teach your dc for so many hours per subject. Except state law doesn't seem to say anywhere how many hours per subject are required, so the district can't legally make you do x hours per subject afaik. That said, I'm pretty go-with-the-flow... if they want me to say I met the required number of hours, I'll probably say I met the required number of hours. I'm not planning on sitting down and timing every subject though to see how many hours we've got. That was annoying enough when the district wanted C to read 30 min per day for homework. On the bright side, I haven't heard anyone here say that their district wants specific numbers of hours for each subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mommy to monkeys Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 When we moved to NY, I was soooo nervous about the regs. They really have turned out to be no. big. deal. I get a little annoyed when I do my paperwork, but it's really pretty quick once I get going. AND I have a pretty good relationship with my district. (knocks on wood) I agree with the recommendation to check out NYHEN. The yahoo group is very helpful with questions and has many MANY samples of people's IHIPs and quarterlies to look at. Seeing another mom's paperwork when we first moved here TRULY put my mind at ease. In terms of hours, I put "225+" on every quarterly. No problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommymilkies Posted August 10, 2015 Author Share Posted August 10, 2015 Thanks! I checked out the Yahoo group and since Yahoo switched things up, it's really hard on the eyes. I'm going to keep trying, though. PM'ing you, christina NY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Agree with everything Starr said I have a fan!! haha Why doesn't my family say this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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