8 yo boy question--whining, drama, crying

[Scarlett]

I'm determined to stop this behavior.

 

It goes something like this---

 

Ds, it is time to do our Lit lesson

 

Ok, can I just put this together first? (legos, which from my experience isn't a 15 second thing...more like if I say yes it will take him another 10 minutes. He's already been given notice that in 10 minutes school will resume)

 

No, come up here now and sit by me.

 

So he stomps to the sofa and sits down next to me very hard, crosses his arms angrily and screws his face up in fury. My NATURAL reaction is to yell and/or spank him. However, that is not the way I want to parent. So instead, I pause and say, 'you have just lost your legos for the rest of the day. Your attitude and behavior is unacceptable.'

 

Well, that sends him into fits. He wails and crys and sobs and begs. I send him to his room to calm down. 10 minutes later we try to start school again, but the crying resumes. So he is back in there now calming down. We've already lost 30 minutes of school....and I'm feeling my blood pressure begin to rise.

 

I feel like he needs a consequence for delaying school so long. Should I give him some housework after school (beyond his normal chores) and tell him since he wasted so much of my time this morning he has to help me get some of it back?

 

I want natural consequences...I want to parent with calmness. I also want a respectful and cooperative boy.

 

Please help.

[BMW]

I'm not the best in these areas because I am often asking for help along these lines, too, but one thing comes to mind...

 

When you call him away from the legos to come and sit with you, you don't have to tell him right then and there that he has lost his legos for the rest of the day. He sits angry next to you, smile, lovingly start the lessons. If he cooperates, you've just got school underway and then when it is time for a break or free time, then you scoop up the legos and take them away for the day - he wonders what you are doing and why and you remind him of the attitude and problem he gave you and that he must obey nicely. Now if he cries and cries, he's already done some school. Next time, give him the advance warning and remind him to come for lessons nicely... ??

 

The other idea I have, which I read about years ago, as to practice this type of obedience. So, take some training time and have fun with it. You can tell him ahead of time that you want to practice this - that he can play and that you will call him for lessons and what he is to do - and then practice it, happily encouraging the good attitude. Or you can also not tell him and not call him to lessons, but when he gets to playing, you call him to do something small (like take the bathroom trash out or something simple) and then he is practicing leaving an activity to obey.

 

It always looks so nice typed out, but it is sure frustrating to live through it!!

 

Hope you get some great ideas,

 

Bee

[obiandelismom]

I don't know if this is an option, but my almost 8yo ds does NOT like for me to dictate when school starts or stops. Sometimes, of course, things do have to happen on my timetable, but whenever possible I try to let him decide when he will do school. (Actually, he's back in ps right now, for other reasons, but this still applies to homework in our house).

 

As long as my ds continues to get his work done to my standards, it doesn't matter to me WHEN it happens. If he were to procrastinate or rush, then the natural consequence (me taking back the reins) would kick in. Then he would have to show me (with a pleasant attitude and diligent work) that he was "ready" to take back over the responsibility of scheduling his time.

[Kay in Cal]

Last year we used an idea from these boards... a chess timer.

 

 

When ds was behaving, one side timed. When he started fussing or causing disruption, the other side timed. All "fussing time" was subtracted from activities he enjoyed.

 

It worked pretty well, and he liked to be the one to hit the timer... so he would get it together, walk back, hit the "behaving" side and say "I'm ready to behave now!"

[sjp]

i would announce as soon as he got up in the morning what the schedule for the day will be, as in, get dressed, eat breakfast, then you may play with legos until such a such a time, at which time we will start school. prompt him before each time so he has plenty of time to adjust. at the school time, tell him, it's time to start. if you start now, you will be allowed to play legos again after school if you still want to. if we cannot start on time, school will run late and you won't have time to play again because of whatever activities or chores you regularly schedule in the afternoon. (schedule some if you need to so he sees that the day is full and he must play his part to keep the schedule running smoothly).

 

this does look nice on paper. doesn't it? but i think if regularly and consistenly implemented it will start to become routine.

[dawn of ns]

I was going to suggest a timer as well but used in a different manner. Give him his 10 or 15 minutes warning but then set up the timer clock and have him watch it. It just sounds like he needs a distraction to help him transition out of that focus and work he's putting into his Lego and having a clock or timer to watch might help him.

[Aunty Social]

not much help, but lots of :grouphug:.

 

My almost 7yo ds is very similar (I almost cried when I read 8 - two more years of this?!) The one thing that helps with my ds is a schedule. He is very rigid - which we are working on - but I've found that the same thing at the same time with the same rules and expectations works wonders for him. Unfortunately, it's the complete opposite of me. But when I am able to do this, he's a happy, cooperative, pleasant boy.

 

oh - and food. lots of it, often. low blood sugar and this boy do.not.mix. I can be doing the routine/schedule thing, but if he hasn't eaten in the last hour or two.....

 

Hope this helps, and you are able to have pleasant days with your ds soon.

[Danestress]

Not to blame you. I did this many many times to before my husband clued me into the problem, and ultimately your son is responsible for his behavior, so I am not blaming you but proposing a better way.

 

Here is the problem. Your son expressed his anger. You didn't like it. I personally think we should allow our children some room to be unhappy and not *always* call it disrespect. But I wasn't there and couldn't see the details, so I don't know if this was just "everyone is allowed to be angry at time" or "disrespect." But even apart from that, lets say for the sake of argument that we would all agree that your son's behavior was disrespectful and rude.

 

 

You didn't have to punish it right them. YOu could have just gone on with the lesson. Yes, it might have been a bit of a tough lesson because of his attitude. But what my husband would call the "instant gratification" need to punish immediately and show him your power made the situation way worse. You would have done better to go on with the lesson, trust that literature is great, a joy, a treat, and something that naturally pulls people out of bad moods.

 

Then later, you could have said, "Okay, let's talk about what happened earlier." It's possible your son would readily admit he acted badly and would apologize. It's possible he would't. You could decide if you wanted a consequence or just a discussion. But in any case, you would have gotten the lesson done and would have addressed the problem when his anger and emotions were already diminished and yours were too.

 

Make sense? I hate to sound like I have all the answers, but this has made SUCH a difference with my three boys, and the older my boys have gotten, the more the ability to say "hmmm, I will bring this up later" pays off.

 

[

[Adrianne]

When this happens in our home, the boys get sent to their beds. They are allowed to come down when their attitude changes. Depending on the child's temperment, it can take a few minutes to an hour or so. There is no anger or yelling, "just go to your room until you are ready to do -----".

 

When they do come down and are ready, we talk about why school is important and why a positive attitude is important.

 

This may take some time to work but works well after the initial period.

 

As a consequence, if school work is not done sometimes they do not get their free time in the afternoon that they usually spend watching TV or this time is delayed. So if we are not starting school until the afternoon, TV time or playtime does not usually happen until after dinner.

[Scarlett]

You didn't have to punish it right them. YOu could have just gone on with the lesson. Yes, it might have been a bit of a tough lesson because of his attitude. But what my husband would call the "instant gratification" need to punish immediately and show him your power made the situation way worse. You would have done better to go on with the lesson, trust that literature is great, a joy, a treat, and something that naturally pulls people out of bad moods. [

 

There is probably some merit to this. It will require more of ME because I have to really really swallow my anger at those times....he is pretty stubborn though and I 'm not sure if he would have come out of it on his own as we did the lesson. I wont' know for sure til I try though.

 

There were lots of suggestions for giving him more notice of the schedule and a more visual way of knowing how much time he has left. Honestly, I think he knows the schedule. It is posted---the general schedule. He knows what subjects we do on what days. And when I wake him in the mornings we go over any thing that will be different that day. It really feels like him delaying because he can or because he has picked up the habit of doing so.

 

I do allow him to feel anger, or whatever emotion. What I tell him is, 'you may feel what you feel, but you cannot behave disrespectfully and make others around you uncomfortable.' I tell him we all have to learn to control how we express our emotions. I say, 'only you are in control of what goes on in your head.'

 

The rest of the morning went fairly well. Now he is on a break, reading the comics while I cook him a bite to eat. It is always very hard to get him back on track. So I will see how it goes after lunch.

 

Delay gratification Scarlett. Delay gratification.

 

Thanks all.

[Soph the vet]

Glad to hear I am not alone with my ds7! Thanks for the helpful posts, I've benefited from them too.

[claire up north]

 

When you call him away from the legos to come and sit with you, you don't have to tell him right then and there that he has lost his legos for the rest of the day. He sits angry next to you, smile, lovingly start the lessons. If he cooperates, you've just got school underway and then when it is time for a break or free time, then you scoop up the legos and take them away for the day - he wonders what you are doing and why and you remind him of the attitude and problem he gave you and that he must obey nicely.

 

I love this suggestion! Often, announcing the punishment right then just fuels the flames of irritation. They will understand the consequence better when they are CALM and the situation has passed. This also gives you the option of quietly analyzing your punishment options. Yes, taking away the legos is one option, but that nasty toilet-scrubbing job might make the point AND help you with your duties, too.

 

Sometimes I choose the "job" punishment so that I can then use the Legos as a reward later in the day. "Now that we are all done with our schoolwork, NOW you are welcome to finish building your lego masterpiece..." This technique is not as effective if I just took the legos away an hour ago. Punishment needs to "hurt" enough to act as a negative reinforcement. :001_smile:

[tibbyl]

Not to blame you. I did this many many times to before my husband clued me into the problem, and ultimately your son is responsible for his behavior, so I am not blaming you but proposing a better way.

 

Here is the problem. Your son expressed his anger. You didn't like it. I personally think we should allow our children some room to be unhappy and not *always* call it disrespect. But I wasn't there and couldn't see the details, so I don't know if this was just "everyone is allowed to be angry at time" or "disrespect." But even apart from that, lets say for the sake of argument that we would all agree that your son's behavior was disrespectful and rude.

 

 

You didn't have to punish it right them. YOu could have just gone on with the lesson. Yes, it might have been a bit of a tough lesson because of his attitude. But what my husband would call the "instant gratification" need to punish immediately and show him your power made the situation way worse. You would have done better to go on with the lesson, trust that literature is great, a joy, a treat, and something that naturally pulls people out of bad moods.

 

Then later, you could have said, "Okay, let's talk about what happened earlier." It's possible your son would readily admit he acted badly and would apologize. It's possible he would't. You could decide if you wanted a consequence or just a discussion. But in any case, you would have gotten the lesson done and would have addressed the problem when his anger and emotions were already diminished and yours were too.

 

Make sense? I hate to sound like I have all the answers, but this has made SUCH a difference with my three boys, and the older my boys have gotten, the more the ability to say "hmmm, I will bring this up later" pays off.

 

[

 

What a beautiful nugget of wisdom. Children who feel they must suppress anger to avoid parental disapproval and/or punishment will sometimes find varying avenues to express their frustration. Some will turn it inward into depression. Some will direct it toward someone lesser than themselves in stature or status.

[Scarlett]

What a beautiful nugget of wisdom. Children who feel they must suppress anger to avoid parental disapproval and/or punishment will sometimes find varying avenues to express their frustration. Some will turn it inward into depression. Some will direct it toward someone lesser than themselves in stature or status.

 

There has to be a limit to expression of anger thought, right? I am not telling him he can't BE angry. I am telling him to curtail the expression. I don't care if he lets me know he doesn't want to sit for lit right then. I just don't want a stomping, arms crossed, head down to chin, faced distorted with fury blob sitting next to me. I've had some success with using a scale of reaction with him. 0-10 with 0 being no reaction and 10 being all out fit throwing screaming tantrum. I will say, 'ok, son, you are giving me a 8 and I think a 2 would be more appropriate.'

 

I need to try that again...I had forgotten about it until now.

[mktkcb]

Oh honey.......mine is almost 12 now, and we still deal frequently with this......I don't want to really discourage you, but with some kids you have to hunker down for the long haul. My best advice? do your best with it TODAY. Purpose in your heart to find positive things to say to and think about your child. Wildly celebrate tiny successes. Continue to tweak. Hug, kiss, and slurp up your child at least twice daily. Discipline as necessary, but connect at all costs. I have a now 17yo dd who just about did me in before age 13 when she became mostly rational (actually a bit over rational :o) ), and my ds 11 ranks right up there with his sister in difficulty level. Rotsa Ruck :o).

Kayleen

[Danestress]

I don't want you to feel like I am criticizing you at all, because I think your dynamic here is really normal, but I also think it's sort of an interesting topic - how mother's feel about their sons' anger, and I'd like to follow up but don't want you to think I am picking at you. So if I irritate you, ignore, but if you want to discuss it, read on:)

 

T

I do allow him to feel anger, or whatever emotion. What I tell him is, 'you may feel what you feel, but you cannot behave disrespectfully and make others around you uncomfortable.' I tell him we all have to learn to control how we express our emotions. I say, 'only you are in control of what goes on in your head.'

 

 

When I am honest with myself, I know that pretty much *any* expression of anger makes me feel uncomfortable. I don't do well with the anger of other people. Sad, I can handle. Angry? It makes me nervous and resentful. I think that makes me a normal woman.

 

You might articulate to him what expression of anger would be okay. It's hard for me to think of one. You know? I hate slamming doors, stomping, angry faces, crossed arms. All of it makes me nervous. So a standard that says you can't make others uncomfortable wouldn't work well in THIS house. It's probably not realistic to say "All you can do is politely say, 'this makes me feel angry.'" And it's also not really workable to say, "Since your anger is unreasonable, it's unacceptable to me."

 

I swear, there comes an age with some boys when they are angry just that they HAVE a mother, angry that she breathes his air. It's really super irritating to a mother, and I didn't deal with it well when my oldest went through that stage, and I'm just praying that my youngest won't. But I will say that as my son got to be 14 or 15, if I punished crossed arms and grumpy faces, it would have been a destructive relationship for us. It worked much better when I hit a good balance of being able to say,

 

"Yeah, sometimes I feel that way too," and

 

"I'm ignoring that," and

 

"Okay, that crossed the line."

 

I will say that my oldest and I had a few discussion about how you don't walk around displaying anger at a person and then ask to borrow their car, eat their food, spend their money. And if you are a Christian, there is so much in scripture about anger and the harm it causes in relationships and in our hearts. But I know that even at 41, I am not in perfect control of my anger. When I am angry, sometimes I even know I am being unreasonable or that I a angry at the situation, not the person, but the person feels uncomfortable with my reaction. And I just need space. If my husband were to insist on evaluating whether I have a right to be angry and whether my expression was reasonable in the heat of the moment, it would probably escalate the problems. I always always always go for deescalating conflict.

[Scarlett]

When I am honest with myself, I know that pretty much *any* expression of anger makes me feel uncomfortable. I don't do well with the anger of other people. Sad, I can handle. Angry? It makes me nervous and resentful. I think that makes me a normal woman. .

 

Hmmm....I guess this is true. Dh and I both are very verbal, dramatic often angry sounding people and I have struggled mightily in my life with controlling my temper, so I am just trying to guide ds to get a handle on it now.

 

You might articulate to him what expression of anger would be okay. It's hard for me to think of one. You know? I hate slamming doors, stomping, angry faces, crossed arms. All of it makes me nervous. So a standard that says you can't make others uncomfortable wouldn't work well in THIS house. It's probably not realistic to say "All you can do is politely say, 'this makes me feel angry.'" And it's also not really workable to say, "Since your anger is unreasonable, it's unacceptable to me." .

 

When I see it in him I just freak. And really, I guess MY reaction to his anger is the biggest problem. My thought process goes something like, 'you little ungrateful boy. I do everything for you and this is your response to me? I cut your Lit work in HALF this morning because you had to take that stupid test and THIS is your response!' You get the idea. When I tell mom these things she says, 'He doesn't behave like an 8 yo to make you miserable or as some sort of critisism of your mothering skills. He is just an 8 yo that needs love and direction.' Yeah, it's all coming back to me now. :tongue_smilie:

 

 

 

It worked much better when I hit a good balance of being able to say,

 

"Yeah, sometimes I feel that way too," and

 

"I'm ignoring that," and

 

"Okay, that crossed the line." .

 

These are good things to remember. Thanks for the specific things to say. That always helps me.

 

And if you are a Christian, there is so much in scripture about anger and the harm it causes in relationships and in our hearts. But I know that even at 41, I am not in perfect control of my anger. When I am angry, sometimes I even know I am being unreasonable or that I a angry at the situation, not the person, but the person feels uncomfortable with my reaction. And I just need space. If my husband were to insist on evaluating whether I have a right to be angry and whether my expression was reasonable in the heat of the moment, it would probably escalate the problems. I always always always go for deescalating conflict.

 

I keep thinking of the scripture that says 'an answer when mild turns away rage.' and I guess I could have the mild answer to his anger. I worry that by allowing that...or letting things slide I am allowing disrespect. Dh absolutely will NOT tolerate it and when he sees it ds is sharply disciplined. I do think anger is a very destructive force. I was in my late 20s before I was able to really get a grip on my temper. Of course, even now, I am not perfect in that area and have to apologize to ds for my words and actions to him at times.

 

And in general he is a very sweet, kind boy. Just yesterday, on the way home I told him not to drink all his drink down because it would ruin his dinner...He couldn't resist it and when we got home he confessed to me that he just couldn't stop drinking it...he said, 'will you forgive me mommy?' I couldn't begin to tell you all the wonderful things about this boy. He discusses scripture and doctrine and good vs. evil. He loves me so much and he is so affectionate.

 

And when I have kindness in my voice and approach him with gentleness, even, or especially when he is angry, I do see that I can calm him down. I think I am hearing 'tapes' of people who would see that as coddling a kid and fostering disrespect.

 

You've been a big help....:)