Would you give a school your child's NP report?

[Storygirl]

I'm filling in the application for a private Christian school where we hope to enroll the three youngest children in the fall. This school does have intervention services but, as a private school that does not accept government funding, they do not follow the IEP process but do their own evaluations. They ask if they can see any diagnostic reports.

 

Background:  A little over a year ago, DS was rejected from a different private Christian school. At that time, he was not medicated for his ADHD (he is now, and it makes a major difference), and we had not yet had him evaluated by a NP, so we did not yet have an understanding of all of his learning challenges. In fact, the rejection experience is what nudged us to get the full evaluations done, so in the end it was a good thing. But it also makes me very nervous about applying to another school.

 

I am really nervous. (Did I say that already?) Now that DS is taking meds,he is really like a different person. He tends to have a really assertive personality and challenges our authority as parents quite a bit, but when he is medicated, that impulsiveness, angryness, need to test and break every rule, and insistence on getting his way really fades, and he is much more pleasant and easy to get along with.

 

The thing is that there is quite a bit in the NP report about his aggressive behaviors. In fact, whenever it is discussed, those words, "aggressive behaviors" are italicized, so they stand out from the rest of the text. On meds, DS does not present as aggressive, though it still comes out when his meds wear off. He will be medicated at school, though, so they should not see this side of him. (And by aggressive, I don't mean that he is physically violent. He is just argumentative and quick to take offense and quick tempered and unable to let things go, so that he sometimes ends up yelling at people in frustration.)

 

Ugh. I'm so afraid to let them see this report, even though all of the screening result and diagnostic information will be very helpful to the school. I think the report misrepresents him a little, in that they are going to think he is too hard to manage. Now, it is balanced by the sections that say he "presented as a gentle and likeable child," etc. THAT is the boy that they are going to see at school. I'm sure he will save most of his naughtiness for home. But I'm afraid the report will scare them off.

 

Also because it says that they think he has a "low average" IQ. They could not calculate a true IQ, and I think they got it wrong. Average? Ok. Low? I don't see it. I think they saw a dull affect due to his adjustments to the meds and anxiety (they mention his dull affect in the report) and ascribed it to lower intelligence. The school we are applying to states that they are best for students of average to above average IQ, and during our visit they talked about how they want to be rigorous. But they have intervention services and also talked about how they had a student with autism who required a full-time aide, so they CAN and DO accommodate for learning differences.

 

So would you give them the report? If not, how would you explain your reluctance? Could I give it to them but block off sections that I consider too private (there is a lot of stuff in there about what he was like as a preschooler and toddler, which I also don't think they need to know)? I am writing a letter explaining his learning disabilities so that they will not be uninformed, but I'm sure they will still want to see the full report. Am I just nervous because of the previous rejection? Would you be concerned?

 

I would not enter him in this school if I thought it was not a good place for him. I think it is a better choice than our other options and believe that he can get some good intervention there, as well as a good general education. I'm not wanting to downplay his needs to them. In fact, I told them already that he has learning challenges. I just worry that the report makes him sound worse off than he is in actuality. But I don't want to appear to be hiding things from them, either.

 

Help.

 

PS -- DS has NVLD, ADHD combined type, SPD, dyspraxia, dyscalculia, LD in reading comprehension and written expression (dysgraphia), and several other impairments. So this list makes it seem like educating him would a huge challenge, which it is. And yet he is so much more than his diagnoses, and I really think he can be successful in school with support and a team of teachers and interventionists working with him. I'm finding it hard to do on my own, along with meeting the needs of my other kids. Honestly, though, he is not my hardest kid to instruct, despite all the labels.

[Heathermomster]

The NP provided me with a private report and a school report.  The school report omitted familial and background information that was not pertinent to accommodations.  Yes, I would give them the report and tell them that you'll answer any questions that they have.  Mention that the IQ score is low because the GAI was not calculated as it should have been.

 

My DS was in a private Christian school from pre-k through 6th grade.  The school insisted upon the NP eval but did not agree to all accommodations.  In their view, the accommodations were discretionary to what they were willing to provide.  Basically as long as the accommodations were OK with the teachers, they were accepted.  Believe it or not, some teachers balked at tiny printers being placed in their rooms that were provided at my family's cost.

 

I am going to tell you the absolute truth.  You are going to have to work very close with your son's teachers, and he will require tons of scaffolding.  If you get any push back at all, pull him and don't think twice about it.  DS tests gifted with maths/reading/handwriting disorders.  The last NP diagnosed inattentive ADHD, and I have been told by a PT that he looks to be dyspraxic.  My son was an A student because all that we did was homework.  As DS aged, teachers did not want to provide scaffolding and some of the teachers were just not very good.  They taught in one way and if the student didn't understand, well the student clearly wasn't trying hard enough.  In the meantime, I was reteaching everything at home.  Homeschooling is a cake walk compared to when DS was at school.  

 

In a classroom, I expect your child will struggle with math and handwriting across all subjects.  Does he type and use a portable word processor?  If the answer is no, seriously reconsider placing him in a classroom situation.  If the school is willing and able to help you, well that is awesome.  I just wouldn't be holding my breath.

[PeterPan]

Since they've said they would do their own evaluations, I would, ahem, show up at that meeting without the report.  People forget things all the time.  And then if they ask I'd say that the report was prior to meds and you were thinking it would be better for them to do their evals with how he is now and see where he's at. 

 

I agree with you that it could be very prejudicial.  Prejudice, as in pre-judging, is something our kids have to deal with constantly in these circles.  There's no need to feed that beast.  Simply showing up without the report, not as in you'll never bring it but just more like Oh I didn't bring it today...  kwim?

 

So was neither a GAI nor a full scale IQ appropriate?  That happens when there's a big spread, which there tends to be with NVLD.  That's kinda weird that they would conclude from that a low IQ.  Does he present that way?  Was the verbal score in an average range at least?

[PeterPan]

Btw, to pick up on what Heather said, I offer one piece of chaste advice.  Whatever you do, make sure it's resulting in an IEP that gives you the option to apply for the scholarship in November if you realize you want it.  I know this move towards school is supposed to help you.  I'm just saying the scholarship is there for a reason.  Can you apply for the scholarship using this private school IEP, or will it have to go through the ps?  So would you literally have to go through this and then go through it again?  I don't know, just something to sort out.

 

Hopefully SOME of your changes will work. I agree with Heather that it's a little concerning when the school says upfront they're all about the rigor.  I looked at a cs recently that seems well-heeled, and they said upfront they don't want anybody with learning disabilities or learning differences AT ALL.  I guess christianity doesn't require them to support the helpless and weak in their book, but whatever.  If you hit 2 for 3 or 3 for 4 with your kids, that will be something.  

[Heathermomster]

Story, I'm sorry if I missed this.  What is your son's age and grade?  Also, is dyslexia remediation completed?

[merry gardens]

I wouldn't give them the whole report. I'd fill in that information any place on the application that asked about learning disabilities or special concerns. If he's admitted, then I'd work with them and provide whatever documentation they need at that point.

 

Maybe it was my state's laws, but when my ds (with APD) attended a private school where I'd filled out all kinds of information, I later learned that the teachers knew nothing about his diagnosis. It was a small school. They told that was due to rules about his privacy. I learned later that he wasn't receiving some very simply accomodations, (like sitting towards the front and away from any obvious source of background noise and writing the homework assignments instead of just telling, which was already a school policy.) I needed to personally tell his teachers about his needs--and he's in high school, so there were several teachers to tell. Not all teachers responded as expected. Attempting to communicate with some of them was quite frustrating. He returned to homeschooling again.

[Storygirl]

Heathermomster, he is 11 and is going into fifth grade. He has not learned a typing technique, but he does like to write with word processing using the hunt and peck method. In fact, he loves it and often makes his own storybooks on the computer. He also likes drawing his own comic books by hand (his main character is a slice of pizza called Pizza Pete :lol: ). I've been impressed with his creative writing, actually. And he can write sentences with ease to answer questions in his school workbooks. His handwriting is a little awkward and not completely automatic but is legible with good spelling and mechanics. We have on occasion used some of the IEW materials, and he is able to make good sentences and build paragraphs with the key word outline method. I was a little surprised at first that he got the dysgraphia label.

 

BUT we recently switched to a different writing program that is teaching topic sentence/ three supporting sentences/ concluding sentence paragraphs (more typical of traditional school methods), and it's hard for him. Once he didn't have that structure IEW provided, he faltered, and I can see the writing LD more clearly. We recently studied a bit about George Washington and then I asked him to write a paragraph. He had three very simple sentences. And the first and last sentence were identical. His writing LD is actually related to getting his thoughts from his head to the paper. He has low processing for pen and paper work overall, and typing does seem to make a difference. I should have him work on typing this summer, and I'll definitely ask if he can utilize typing at the school.

 

He doesn't have dyslexia. My daughter is being evaluated for dyslexia (NP appointment this week!) though.

 

I'm really hoping that school will work for him, because homeschooling has not been working for our family overall. I think I could do a fabulous job homeschooling one child (even if they had special needs), but trying manage all the needs of all four of my children has overwhelmed me, and I know I'm not doing well enough for any of them. This next year I need to focus in on getting my oldest ready for high school work, because her needs have been put aside for the last few years while I put out fires with the other three. So I'm going to focus on being the very best homeschooling teacher for just one child this next year and see how school works for the others. If it doesn't work, we'll figure out Plan C.

 

All that said -- I'm not sure going to school will prove successful. We'll pull him back out if things don't work out. And before we actually enroll, we should know what services they will provide for him. With our other two school choices (one public, one private), we would have to go through the IEP process before getting extra services. So he would be in school for a couple of months before getting extra help. We like this school, because they would have services set up for him from day one.

 

merry gardens, thanks for the thought about making sure the teachers know what accommodations they should be using. I would have assumed that all staff would be on board with the same plan, but I can see that that might not be the case. And just because a teacher is supposed to be making the accommodations happen doesn't mean that they WILL, so I'll be sure to stay on top of it. Constant vigilance! I used to say that that was our parenting style for DS when he was a toddler and preschooler. I'll have to make that our byword for dealing with the schools, too.

[Storygirl]

Elizabeth, his full scale IQ was calculated at 82 and GAI was 91.

Verbal comprehension 102 (55th percentile)

Perceptual reasoning 77 (6th percentile)

Working memory 91 (27th percentile)

Processing speed 68 (2nd percentile)

I don't know enough about interpreting the numbers to know if they could get a good idea of IQ from that, but there are some big differences in ability there. If you can help me understand the scores better, that would be great.

 

So if we enroll in this private school, they won't do the IEP at all. If we change directions and decide to go back to homeschooling, we would have to start the IEP process from the beginning. I'm not sad about not doing the IEP at this point, because I do not relish working with the public school elementary principal. One more year, and we can go through the middle school for the IEP instead. I was fully prepared to pursue the IEP this year anyway, but if this private school is able to address our needs, I guess I'm willing to risk being without it for awhile longer.

 

We have neighbors who went to Other Christian School (our other choice) this last year and got IEPs, but it was a rocky process for them that took all year (she didn't know or push for their right to have it done more efficiently). And their mom said the fifth grade teacher (DS's grade next year) did not give their daughter enough support with EF things. So choosing the school that will use the IEP process won't necessarily get us better help.

 

Having the IEP would give us a step closer to the scholarship money if we decide to go back to homeschooling, though. You are right that we are giving that up for now. I wish we could just have it all line up in an easy little row for us, with everything we need in place.

 

 

[kbutton]

I think I would provide minimal information now and then see how much more they need. Let them come to their own conclusions first if at all possible.

 

I hope this turns out to be a good fit. It's hard to be in triage mode all the time.

[Storygirl]

So here is what I'm thinking. I will provide a list of his diagnosed special needs (written by myself), along with some suggested accommodations and/or ways that I see them potentially affecting his performance in the classroom.

 

Example: "ADHD -- Medication helps him focus, but he will do best if seated at the front of the class and given assignments in a written rather than oral form. Advanced notice of major projects is suggested. He does well in a structured environment with clear expectations and goals."

 

I won't mention the NP report to them. If they request it, I will say something like, "The report contains personal family information unrelated to his academic performance. We are willing to provide a copy of the report with this information removed for privacy."

 

What do you think? I want to be upfront and open. But not more open than needed to address his academic and social needs in the school setting. My husband is willing to give them the full report (but if he rereads it, he may change his mind).

[Storygirl]

I am pulling this quote from texasmama's EF thread, because it expresses what I feel about DS exactly.

 

 

Frankly, he is educationally functionally impaired by everything he has going on, and he does not have the gifted IQ to make up for this.  He is not ID by any stretch, just average.  Average is fine without all of the other labels, but average becomes below average in functioning with the other alphabet soup thrown in.

 

 

The NP thought that DS's IQ was closer to the lower full scale score than the higher GAI. I'm rejecting that. I'm going to believe that he has the higher IQ, because I see his abilities shining through his disabilities. His ability to demonstrate his skills in an academic way is diminished by his disabilities for sure. But I refuse to accept that it means he is less smart.

 

Hopefully his teachers will see the clever and witty boy I know and not let the disabilities define him in their classroom. I know that is probably a lot to expect, but I'm going to be optimistic. I hope so much that he can succeed at this.

[Heathermomster]

So here is what I'm thinking. I will provide a list of his diagnosed special needs (written by myself), along with some suggested accommodations and/or ways that I see them potentially affecting his performance in the classroom.

 

Example: "ADHD -- Medication helps him focus, but he will do best if seated at the front of the class and given assignments in a written rather than oral form. Advanced notice of major projects is suggested. He does well in a structured environment with clear expectations and goals."

 

I won't mention the NP report to them. If they request it, I will say something like, "The report contains personal family information unrelated to his academic performance. We are willing to provide a copy of the report with this information removed for privacy."

 

What do you think? I want to be upfront and open. But not more open than needed to address his academic and social needs in the school setting. My husband is willing to give them the full report (but if he rereads it, he may change his mind).

Sounds good...

 

Work on typing ASAP. In 5th grade, DS was hunting and pecking full pages of single spaced notes off the board for history and Bible.  Since typing wasn't automatic, he slowed the class down and missed lecture and recess to keep up.  Request a copy of all in class notes.  

 

BTW, Son's teacher and principal refused that accommodation.  I was told that I could seek the notes independently from another parent after school.  Needless to say, I pulled DS the 2nd half of 5th grade and taught him to type.  He returned to the 6th grade classroom typing 30 wpm and freely gave his notes to any student that ask.  Sorry for the rant.

[EKS]

The NP thought that DS's IQ was closer to the lower full scale score than the higher GAI. I'm rejecting that. I'm going to believe that he has the higher IQ, because I see his abilities shining through his disabilities. His ability to demonstrate his skills in an academic way is diminished by his disabilities for sure. But I refuse to accept that it means he is less smart.

 

One thing to remember is that while the GAI may tell us something about the spark underlying the processing/memory issues and the LD diagnoses, the FSIQ, even if it is technically invalid, does tell us something about how the child would function in a classroom where processing speed and working memory are critical to success.  Add in some LDs, and you have a child who is functioning lower in a classroom setting than even his invalid FSIQ might indicate.

 

So how to deal with this, when you know there is intelligence lurking in there?  In a homeschool setting it is possible to feed that intelligence while dealing with processing and memory issues and LDs.  It's not easy, but it's possible.  But in a classroom?  I don't know.  I know I had to make some pretty extreme modifications to get it to work, especially when my son was in the thick of his difficulties, before much remediation had taken place.  I honestly don't see how a classroom teacher, even with whatever support staff they might have in place could systematically modify lessons to feed the intelligence without overwhelming everything else.  There are so many expectations placed on children in classrooms that have nothing to do with intelligence, expectations that are difficult to meet for kids with this profile, for no matter how intelligent they are under it all, the classroom "game" rewards skills that they don't have.

 

To answer your original question, I would not give the report to the school.  I would decide what exactly I want from the school and then get documentation that specifically supports those things.  If that means paying the NP to write a brief report with the diagnosis (or diagnoses) and the suggested accommodations/modifications, then that's what I'd do.

[wapiti]

.

[OneStepAtATime]

For an application to the school? No don't show the report.

 

As for typing, I would encourage you to start him on a systematic typing program ASAP and have him do it daily. He needs to develop muscle memory and since he has already started making brain and muscle connections using a very inefficient method he will need to unlearn that as he tries learning the more efficient way. Don't let him hunt and peck once you start the typing program. Work hard at helping him get proper finger placement and posture. Emphasize accuracy not speed. Speed will come once accuracy is more solid.

 

Best wishes.

[kbutton]

So here is what I'm thinking. I will provide a list of his diagnosed special needs (written by myself), along with some suggested accommodations and/or ways that I see them potentially affecting his performance in the classroom.

 

Example: "ADHD -- Medication helps him focus, but he will do best if seated at the front of the class and given assignments in a written rather than oral form. Advanced notice of major projects is suggested. He does well in a structured environment with clear expectations and goals."

 

I won't mention the NP report to them. If they request it, I will say something like, "The report contains personal family information unrelated to his academic performance. We are willing to provide a copy of the report with this information removed for privacy."

 

What do you think? I want to be upfront and open. But not more open than needed to address his academic and social needs in the school setting. My husband is willing to give them the full report (but if he rereads it, he may change his mind).

 

I think this is excellent, but I would add a comment or two...

 

(Maybe) I suggest stating that meds and other supports have made some of the specifics in the report outdated.

 

At some point in the process, you might want to research and actually ask for a little bit bigger of a list of accommodations, which you can prioritize. You don't want to come across in a way that biases them against servicing your son, but they will probably whittle down any list you bring. If you start with a bigger list, you might have a bigger list of accommodations after they whittle. 

 

Someone else with more private school experience can probably offer a perspective on my suggestions though. We used a private school pre-diagnosis, K-2. They were not disability friendly, but I know of other schools that are.

 

I think you have reason for optimism with your son's IQ scores in regard to his future functioning and overall ability to learn, but the processing speed and such will be a challenge (and one of my kids has those sorts of processing speeds too). If you feel that you can help him with reviewing materials for tests, etc. to be sure he's remembering things once mastered, you might ask for him to do homework on a time basis rather than a completion basis. It's one accommodation I've heard of, and I think it's from a podcast on slow processing speed. In other words, he would be asked to spend x amount of time daily on homework, whether or not he actually completed it, and not be penalized when he can't get everything finished. I am assuming that either you or the teacher would prioritize the actual homework to be done during that time to be sure he's doing the work is most important for mastery of the material.

[Storygirl]

 

 

If the NP report comes from testing without meds, and since adding meds his performance is very different, it seems to me that the report isn't terribly accurate and therefore not worth providing.  It might be interesting to have new data on-meds - is there any possibility of that?

 

Eta, I noticed this is for application to the school - I don't think I'd give the report without new, more accurate on-med data (e.g. a recent on-med standardized test).

 

He actually started the meds right before the NP evals started. When he did the placement testing for the first private school in February 2014 (the one that refused to enroll him), he was not medicated. They ran the Woodcock Johnson, and we have that report.  By the time the NP testing began in April 2014, he had been on the meds for a few weeks, so the NP report is a reflection of his abilities while medicated.

 

Which provided an interesting contrast. The private school in 2014 saw his hyperactivity. He was actually very hyper that day, bouncing out of his seat to ask me questions while the principal was trying to talk to us as a family, continually getting up to get water from the dispenser, unable to answer some of her questions because he was not paying attention. I could understand why they were concerned, even though it broke my heart. I knew he could sit and listen, but he was not doing it that day. I was operating under extreme burnout that spring, and that meeting reinforced for me my need for help. Which I didn't end up getting.

 

But then, a couple of months later, he was so calm and compliant during the NP evaluations that they said in their report that they did not see the ADHD behavior, even though they acknowledged the diagnosis made by others. The meds just have such an extreme effect on him that he presents completely differently when he is on them.

 

The comments about his aggressive behavior, etc. in the NP report were notes from the intake forms that we filled out. The NP did not observe any of it herself but recorded it as information from the parents. Which is why I'm concerned about our current school application process. I want them to consider the boy sitting in front of them, not the problems that we revealed to the NP during the intake.

 

I anticipate that the school will see him as introverted and compliant and underachieving and inattentive and anxious, but not hyper and impulsive, due to the meds. And then the wild child will show up at home while we are trying to have family time and do homework after the meds have worn off. That won't be fun. We have an appointment with the doctor to discuss meds on Monday, and I'm going to ask if we can give him a supplementary dose during the evenings that he has to focus on work at home.

 

We did just complete the Standford (administered by me at home) a few weeks ago, but we don't have the results yet. I'm not sure if we will get the results before the admissions process has already been completed, but if we do, I'll let them have it.

[kbutton]

Oh, that does make things just a bit more complicated. I think I would give your take on things as they are now and then just see what else they need. You seem to have a really good handle on what he's like before and after. I would summarize some of that concisely (maybe give a snapshot of the "now" and an example or two of how it contrasts with before)--just enough to ease their minds about the reports if you don't want to provide them or to give them context for them if they insist on having them. Tell them that what they see in front of them is a result of meds and other interventions, but the underlying issues are still there and peek through in other ways (the inattentiveness, trouble in the evenings with homework, etc.). 

[Storygirl]

Thanks for your suggestions, kbutton. I've been wondering how many accommodations to ask for upfront. I want him to get every support that he needs, but I don't want to give them such a big list that they look at it and decide it is beyond their scope to help him. The NP report actually has many very detailed lists of suggested accommodations. I may be able to copy just that part of the report for them.

 

I'm nervous, but I'm hopeful. When we met the principal, she gave an example of one student that they admitted, even though they wondered if his needs were too great. They just felt strongly that they were meant to help him, and she said that he made great progress during the years that he was there. They also have paid for O-G training and other specializations for staff members and have actively sought to hire intervention specialists, because they want to have the ability to help students who struggle. So even though they emphasize rigor, they seem open to digging in and helping children with learning challenges. So even if they see a big need there with my son, maybe they won't automatically turn him away.

 

I don't know if this school will be the right choice for him forever. And even if it is a good fit, it only goes through eighth grade, so at some point we will have to consider other options. But I'm willing to try it. I feel a need for a team of people to help me educate DS and his siblings. We're hoping to find a good team at this school, but if not, we will start our search over and figure something else out.

[kbutton]

It is a difficult balancing act, but it sounds like your eyes are wide open. And that story is encouraging if they are willing to communicate openly about what is working and not working with your son.