QueenCat Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 OP: Post #34 is from BJU. You may want to update your original post to let everyone know that they do not endorse this guy. Do we know that this new poster is really who he says he is, though? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted March 27, 2015 Author Share Posted March 27, 2015 What kinds of notes? I mean, the bible itself arguably holds some pretty threatening ideas. Eternal flames for not believing? Ouch. I guess my question is, are these notes and signs extrabiblical, or just worded really offensively? I'm not arguing the Bible or religion in general with you, since we all know your stance there, and that wasn't what my post was about ;) If you read my initial post, you would see that the first signs were "God Damn America, In Jesus' Name", and similar such things, directly across from an elementary school play lot and walking area. My concern was not the Biblical content, or lack thereof, of the signs - they were the profanity and threatening nature ("repent or PERISH"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted March 27, 2015 Author Share Posted March 27, 2015 Do we know that this new poster is really who he says he is, though? Well, I suppose the Greenville PD plans to find out :D By that I only mean that they do not seem to care for the idea of young school children being exposed to these signs - public property and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I'm doing that now. For some reason for the past few weeks, I do NOT get quote notifications - only "like" notifications. Do we know that this guy is really from BJU? Weird that he, as a first time poster, found our thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Well, I suppose the Greenville PD plans to find out :D By that I only mean that they do not seem to care for the idea of young school children being exposed to these signs - public property and all. The Greenville PD is looking into the guy claiming to be from BJU and is posting on this thread? I meant poster as in the person claiming to be Randy Page, as I find it odd that this thread was found by an employee of BJU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 That's totally absurd, and since there are graduates of BJU on this board (including me!), it would be nice to be a little more polite or at least accurate. I don't really see much difference. Like I said, a difference of degrees maybe, but not in intention. But, don't feel singled out. I can't see much difference between Westboro Baptist and most fundimentalist sects. The desired results are all the same. Westboro might have more volume than some of the present time, but their heart is in the same place. They are on the same end of the spectrum. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 If you read my initial post, you would see that the first signs were "God Damn America, In Jesus' Name", and similar such things, directly across from an elementary school play lot and walking area. My concern was not the Biblical content, or lack thereof, of the signs - they were the profanity and threatening nature ("repent or PERISH"). So it's not like the van is painted with the F-bomb all over it, is it? I wouldn't consider "God damn America, in Jesus name" to be any different from "Jesus saves [from being damned]." I mean, they're two expressions of the same message, one just doesn't bother with diplomacy. Considering kids are exposed to and surrounded by this message from infancy, I didn't understand the hoopla. I can see why seeing the word "damn" in a public place would be an issue if one considers it a swear word. I'm not arguing the Bible or religion in general with you, since we all know your stance there, and that wasn't what my post was about ;) I know we don't have the same beliefs or thoughts about the bible, but we don't actually need to share beliefs and thoughts in order to ask and answer questions, do we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 So it's not like the van is painted with the F-bomb all over it, is it? I wouldn't consider "God damn America, in Jesus name" to be any different from "Jesus saves [from being damned]." I mean, they're two expressions of the same message, one just doesn't bother with diplomacy. Considering kids are exposed to and surrounded by this message from infancy, I didn't understand the hoopla. I can see why seeing the word "damn" in a public place would be an issue if one considers it a swear word. I know we don't have the same beliefs or thoughts about the bible, but we don't actually need to share beliefs and thoughts in order to ask and answer questions, do we? South Carolina has a law regarding using profanities in front of minors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrookValley. Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Do we know that this guy is really from BJU? Weird that he, as a first time poster, found our thread. While I can't speak to the legitimacy of the poster, I don't think it odd that the PR director for a school with some bit of controversy surrounding it found our thread here--meaning, I think it would be expected you'd occasionally or often Google BJU if you were in his position, and I think he could have hit on WTM fairly easily from there. Or, someone reading may have let him know. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted March 28, 2015 Author Share Posted March 28, 2015 The Greenville PD is looking into the guy claiming to be from BJU and is posting on this thread? I meant poster as in the person claiming to be Randy Page, as I find it odd that this thread was found by an employee of BJU. I don't find it odd. How often do we start a thread about a random curriculum or publisher, only for the publisher (or an employee) to pop in with an account to comment on it or answer questions? I've seen it several times. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrincessMommy Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 While I can't speak to the legitimacy of the poster, I don't think it odd that the PR director for a school with some bit of controversy surrounding it found our thread here--meaning, I think it would be expected you'd occasionally or often Google BJU if you were in his position, and I think he could have hit on WTM fairly easily from there. Or, someone reading may have let him know. I agree. It's not weird at all. I've seen people pop in as new posters just for one thread. It's a good reminder that this place isn't private and our threads are easily found via google. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 It's not at all strange for a BYU rep to have found this thread via a Google Alert or search. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueenCat Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 While I can't speak to the legitimacy of the poster, I don't think it odd that the PR director for a school with some bit of controversy surrounding it found our thread here--meaning, I think it would be expected you'd occasionally or often Google BJU if you were in his position, and I think he could have hit on WTM fairly easily from there. Or, someone reading may have let him know. I guess I really hadn't thought of that, but still somewhat skeptical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateReignRemix Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 That's totally absurd, and since there are graduates of BJU on this board (including me!), it would be nice to be a little more polite or at least accurate. Why is it absurd? Did BJ III say the quote below or not? "But it would not be a bad idea to bring the swift justice today that was brought in Israel's day against murder and rape and homosexuality. I guarantee it would solve the problem post-haste if homosexuals were stoned, if murderers were immediately killed as the Bible commands." Is it untrue that BJU previously had a policy against interracial dating until 2000? It is nice to see BJU finally start to catch up to the times, but saying that the school and its leadership has had policies not far removed from those of WBC is not inaccurate. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeannpal Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 I don't really see much difference. Like I said, a difference of degrees maybe, but not in intention. But, don't feel singled out. I can't see much difference between Westboro Baptist and most fundimentalist sects. The desired results are all the same. Westboro might have more volume than some of the present time, but their heart is in the same place. They are on the same end of the spectrum. You absolutely could not be more wrong about this! Westboro Baptist hates people and wants them to go to hell. You would not find attitude to be prevalent among most Christians at all. Having an opinion is one thing; spouting off untruths is another. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 You absolutely could not be more wrong about this! Westboro Baptist hates people and wants them to go to hell. You would not find attitude to be prevalent among most Christians at all. Having an opinion is one thing; spouting off untruths is another. According to whom? According to them, as revealed during interviews and what they write, they want to help people to avoid going to Hell. I defy you to find one thing WBC states that is contrary to scripture, your interpretation of said scripture notwithstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeannpal Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 According to whom? According to them, as revealed during interviews and what they write, they want to help people to avoid going to Hell. I defy you to find one thing WBC states that is contrary to scripture, your interpretation of said scripture notwithstanding. What they state and what they do are entirely different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 What they state and what they do are entirely different things. You're suggesting they want to send people to hell and so they publicly share what the bible says about sin, redemption, and then tell people that salvation comes through belief in Jesus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeannpal Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 You're suggesting they want to send people to hell and so they publicly share what the bible says about sin, redemption, and then tell people that salvation comes through belief in Jesus? No, I'm suggesting that most Christians don't run around with signs claiming "God hates f@#gs" or picket the burial of a fallen soldier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 No, I'm suggesting that most Christians don't run around with signs claiming "God hates f@#gs" or picket the burial of a fallen soldier. For sure most Christians don't do that, but that has no bearing on your comment that they hate people and want us to go to hell, or about redsquirrel's argument that popular or not, they have similar messages to BJU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 You absolutely could not be more wrong about this! Westboro Baptist hates people and wants them to go to hell. You would not find attitude to be prevalent among most Christians at all. Having an opinion is one thing; spouting off untruths is another. Where do I say that the beliefs and attitudes of Westboro church are prevalent among "most Christians"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 According to whom? According to them, as revealed during interviews and what they write, they want to help people to avoid going to Hell. Source? They don't believe they can help anyone avoid hell--they believe that has already been pre-ordained. You're either elected to be saved or you're not, and there's nothing you or they can do about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted March 29, 2015 Author Share Posted March 29, 2015 Well, this is devolving quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Source? They don't believe they can help anyone avoid hell--they believe that has already been pre-ordained. You're either elected to be saved or you're not, and there's nothing you or they can do about it. Their website, and interviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Well, this is devolving quickly. While an unpleasant idea has been raised, this thread is quite calm and polite, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 You're suggesting they want to send people to hell and so they publicly share what the bible says about sin, redemption, and then tell people that salvation comes through belief in Jesus? That is not their message to the public. “We don’t strive to change your hearts or minds,†Phelps wrote in a letter to the Capital-Journal. “Even if we wanted to, we couldn’t make you believe the truth. “Every person who is predestined for hell will remain in darkness.†Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 No, I'm suggesting that most Christians don't run around with signs claiming "God hates f@#gs" or picket the burial of a fallen soldier. And most Christians don't run around advocating for gays to be stoned to death, but that's what Bob Jones III did. The open and extremist racism and bigorty of BJU makes them just as unsavory as Westboro. Bill 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrookValley. Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Please link where they talk about belief in Jesus or redemption. “We don’t strive to change your hearts or minds,†Phelps wrote in a letter to the Capital-Journal. “Even if we wanted to, we couldn’t make you believe the truth. “Every person who is predestined for hell will remain in darkness.†First of their open letters: "We tell you the words in this response to help your soul and for no other reason." "The Lord Jesus Christ came the first time, 2,000 years ago with good news--to repent or perish, and that salvation through the blood of our dear Lord Jesus Christ is effectual for as many as are ordained to eternal life..." http://www.godhatesfags.com/letters/20140510_response-to-first-southern-baptist-church-junction-city.pdf They talk about belief in Jesus often in their letters. I'd quote more but my phone is acting wonky and I already feel dirty for clicking; I'm not sifting too deep. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 That is not their message to the public. “We don’t strive to change your hearts or minds,†Phelps wrote in a letter to the Capital-Journal. “Even if we wanted to, we couldn’t make you believe the truth. “Every person who is predestined for hell will remain in darkness.†This is their message to the public: Who are you, what do you do, and why do you do it? The Westboro Baptist Church (WBC) of Topeka, Kansas, is an Old School (or, Primitive) Baptist Church. We adhere to the teachings of the Bible, preach against all form of sin (e.g., fornication, adultery [including divorce and remarriage], sodomy), and insist that the sovereignty of God and the doctrines of grace be taught and expounded publicly to all men. These doctrines of grace were well summed up by John Calvin in his 5 points of Calvinism: Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, Irresistible Grace, and Perseverance of the Saints. Although these doctrines are almost universally hated today, they were once loved and believed. Even though the Arminian lies that "God loves everyone" and "Jesus died for everyone" are being taught from nearly every pulpit in this generation, this hasn't always been the case. If you are in a church that supposedly believes the Bible, and you are hearing these lies, then your church doesn't teach what the Bible teaches. If you care about your never-dying soul, you will carefully read every word of this web site, along with the entire Bible. WBC engages in daily peaceful sidewalk demonstrations opposing the homosexual lifestyle of soul-damning, nation-destroying filth. We display large, colorful signs containing Bible words and sentiments, including: GOD HATES FAGS, FAGS HATE GOD, AIDS CURES FAGS, THANK GOD FOR AIDS, FAGS BURN IN HELL, GOD IS NOT MOCKED, FAGS ARE NATURE FREAKS, GOD GAVE FAGS UP, NO SPECIAL LAWS FOR FAGS, FAGS DOOM NATIONS, THANK GOD FOR DEAD SOLDIERS, FAG TROOPS, GOD BLEW UP THE TROOPS, GOD HATES AMERICA, AMERICA IS DOOMED, THE WORLD IS DOOMED, etc. Perceiving the modern militant homosexual movement to pose a clear and present danger to the survival of America, exposing our nation to the wrath of God as in 1898 B.C. at Sodom and Gomorrah, WBC has conducted over 33,000 such demonstrations since June, 1991, at homosexual parades and other events, including funerals of impenitent sodomites (like Matthew Shepard) and over 200 military funerals of troops whom God has killed in Iraq/Afghanistan in righteous judgment against an evil nation. America crossed the line on June 26, 2003, when the Supreme Court (the conscience of the nation) ruled that we must respect sodomy. WBC teams have picketed all over the United States, and internationally (including Canada, Jordan and Iraq). The unique picketing ministry of Westboro Baptist Church has received international attention, and WBC believes this gospel message to be this world's last hope. They've got all kinds of information on their website for those curious about what they really say and do, and why. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan Wise Bauer Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 And we're done. The question's been asked and answered. SWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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