Math-U-See vs Math Mammoth for 1st grade?

[hisforhomeschooling]

We have been doing BJU for K5 this year. My kids love it but we got it for free and the prep can be overwhelming.

 

I think MUS or MM would be a good fit. Horizon and Singapore are my other thoughts, but I have heard that SM and MM are very similar. MM is reproducible and less expensive.

 

Pros and cons of MUS and MM for 1st grade? Has anyone switched from one to the other?

 

My kids enjoy math and catch on very quickly, so I am looking for something that will continue to challenge them.

 

BJU is very colorful and engaging and uses constant hands-on activities. Which might be part of our success with it. But, I feel like maybe my oldest would sacrifice that for being done with the lesson sooner.

[sweetpea3829]

MUS will not be much of a challenge, IMO.  Unless you plan on moving very quickly.  I am using it with DD9.  It's slow, methodical, incremental steps are perfect for DD.  Her math LD makes learning math a challenge.  I take two weeks per lesson, and school her year round.  She has done very well with it.  But it would be a disaster for eldest DS.  

 

I don't know much about Math Mammoth, other than it has been compared to Singapore.  We use Singapore with eldest DS, who is a mathy kid...and we love it for him.  

 

One other thing to consider regarding MUS is whether or not testing is required in your state/district.  If it is, MUS may not be a good fit, because of its sequence.  

 

We DO use Singapore in a reproducible way...my books are three-hole punched and the kids use dry erase pockets and Vis-a-Vis wet erase markers to complete their pages.  When they are done, I put that kids' initial in the upper corner and refile the page for the next kid.  

 

It IS more work on my end but...it saves a ton, lol.  

[EndOfOrdinary]

MUS can get spendy with the manipulatives. 

 

MM is easy to accelerate; MUS is not.

 

MUS is much more "hands on" if that is an important thing for your kids (it was for my son at that age).

 

MUS is slower and builds slower, so if you need repetition or have pacing stuff going on it is a good one.

 

Honestly, in first grade just about any math you pick, they like, and it is done regularly will work out in the end.  You have a lot of time.

 

[Stellalarella]

If your kids catch on fast, MM is a good choice.

 

I primarily use MUS and have gone through levels Primer to Geometry  with various kiddos.

 

I use MM to supplement so the kids meet all the learning points that their peers are "generally" learning in the local public schools. For instance, my 4th grader is getting 95% of what he needs from Delta--I'm just adding in more teaching on fractions and some extra portion of geometry from MM Grade 4.  

 

I also use MM for extension because I like how she presents doing double digit add/subtract problems mentally.  MUS does some of that as well, but MM is more explicit about it.

 

I had kids that needed an incremental approach, so MUS is our primary.  I had originally started the child who struggles the most on Singapore and she just couldn't do it.  So once I had  MUS for her, I just kept at it for the others because I understood and appreciated the approach.

 

I got into MM for extension purposes.  I like it.  It's affordable.  

 

But if your kids are zippy at math, I would just start with MM.  And remember to spiral back in review and spend extra time in getting basic facts down to automaticity.  (MUS does a good job of constant review and working on facts, but I don't think MM provides enough review, at least in the grade level and subjects I purchased. 

 

 

 

 

[RKWAcademy]

We are just barely into first grade math.  We did MUS Primer and Singapore Essentials for K.  My kids loved Singapore.  One did well with MUS primer for some basics but they dreaded the worksheets and the slow pace.  For first grade math, because they were still so young, I decided to experiment to see what would fit with them.  They HATED MM.  It took less than two weeks to determine those worksheets weren't for them, at that age.  Maybe I wasn't teaching it right.  But they went from loving math to hating it very quickly.  So, I went back to Singapore 1A.  They love it.  It works for all of us.  They like the colorful books, and I like the HIG.  But we also use some RightStart games and the abacus.  I never tried MUS Alpha because I didn't like the scope and sequence of MUS.  Not sure that helps with your question, but my answer would be neither MUS or MM.

[Gil]

Math Mammoth is an excellent program in my opinion. I don't know anything about the other programs because we started and stayed with Math Mammoth from 1A to the end. I don't know anything about the other elementary math programs that you mentioned so I don't know how extensive the coverage of BJUK5 is. There are a ton of samples for Math Mammoth on the website, so there is little guess work in whether or not "its for you." just go through the samples, print some off and give them a whirl.

 

Some people complain that the pages are "too cluttered" whatever that means. It wasn't a problem for us and we used an older version. Since then, the author has re-done the program and I understand that the newer versions aren't as "visually cluttered." Math Mammoth is essentially a bunch of graded worksheets with teaching notes and so it it easy to "hack" the way you use it.

 

In Math Mammoth the first grade book has...9 chapters I think. I know that the first one is completely optional and if you've done a K math you probably don't need it. So the core 1st grade MM book program is 8 chapters

1A has chapter 0-Kindergarten Review, 1-Addition, 2-Subtraction and 3-Math Facts for Addition and Subtraction.

1B has chapter 4-Place Value to 100, 5-Clock, 6-Shapes and Measuring, 7-Adding and Subtracting within 100, and 8-Coins

 

In the first grade book you can begin with the "Kindergarten Math Review" chapter OR skip it. You can do chapters 5,6 and 8 when ever you want and I think it helps to "peck away" at those topics after chapters 1 and 2 but as you work through chapters 3,4 and 7. But just doing the chapters in sequence is fine too. When you complete Math Mammoth your kid will likely be fluent at addition and subtraction.

We used Math Mammoth and personally, I loved it. We only got good things from it.

[Gil]

nm.

[3 ladybugs]

I just got it (on Thursday) but have you looked at Shiller Math? You can do assessments and figure out what your child actually needs to learn, then teach only that. It is expensive at first, but it includes 5 years of free downloads of the consumables. So you can get all you will need for all (soon to be, I have 2 sisters from China btw :) ) 4 children. It also is for 3 years. So you are paying for it all up front, but then you are good for 3 years for 4 children!

 

I have just done 2 lessons with my son so I can't say much about the coursework, but it seems like it should be great. It is also VERY low pressure, and very positive. Completely scripted too. 

 

Anyway, just thought I would throw it out there. :)

[KSinNS]

So, I really like MUS, but I don't adore Alpha. It's basically shapes, ?a bit on money (I'm not sure) and your math facts to 20. But it's not bad, but there are lots of confusing little tricks, which I don't like.

 

I also like MM, but the pages have little white space, and are overwhelming, and her explanations are sometimes very convoluted. Her word problems are very good. Anyway, my plan for my upcoming Ker is to do kindergarten math, math facts to 20 using Kitchen Table math (and some stuff I've picked up along the way including some MM worksheets) and then move into Beta. I keep using MM when I need extra work-sheets. 

[Five More Minutes]

Math Mammoth is an excellent program in my opinion. I don't know anything about the other programs because we started and stayed with Math Mammoth from 1A to the end. I don't know anything about the other elementary math programs that you mentioned so I don't know how extensive the coverage of BJUK5 is. There are a ton of samples for Math Mammoth on the website, so there is little guess work in whether or not "its for you." just go through the samples, print some off and give them a whirl.

 

Some people complain that the pages are "too cluttered" whatever that means. It wasn't a problem for us and we used an older version. Since then, the author has re-done the program and I understand that the newer versions aren't as "visually cluttered." Math Mammoth is essentially a bunch of graded worksheets with teaching notes and so it it easy to "hack" the way you use it.

 

I completely agree that Math Mammoth is excellent. I agree, too, with PPs that it's very similar to Singapore in approach. I love MM.

 

But ... we're among those people who found the pages too busy. To give some context, I was hyper-sensitive to the sense of overwhelm at the time we were trying out MM. We were switching from another program that *was* overwhelming in the wrong ways for my dd, and I needed make sure that whatever program we used brought back the math love. Her reaction to MM vs. her reaction to Singapore was what decided me to go for Singapore.

 

That's probably way more info. than you needed.  :001_smile:  But I do have a point! I'm suggesting that *if* you choose to try out MM, and *if* it just doesn't seem to click, then moving from MM to Singapore would be seamless because of their similar approaches.

[73349]

MUS is short and light, so it could be used as a supplement to something else (like MM or SM) if you like, especially if you do a longish or year-round school year. Alpha has only 30 lessons, and some of them are things like Adding Zero to Something--not really a week's worth of material. (Scope and sequence at http://mathusee.com/web-pdfs/TOCs/alphaTOC.pdf.)

 

Since your kids sound mathy, if you do pick MUS, you might want to do more than one level a year, or use something else for enrichment.

 

I used Primer and Alpha (videos only, not books) as supplements to Miquon and Singapore. I was able to buy them secondhand and resell them afterward. I haven't seen MM in person, so can't advise on that.

[morningcoffee]

MM would be my preferred math curriculum but my kids didn't do well with it.

 

If I were you, I would definitely start with MM because it is a great curriculum and so cheap :)  If it didn't work, then you could look at something else. You won't really know until you try it.   

[kateingr]

I recently wrote detailed reviews of Math Mammoth and Singapore, if you'd like some more details about the differences between the two of those. They have a lot of similarities in how they approach math (emphasizing concepts, lots of mental math) but they're very different in their teaching approaches. Singapore requires more preparation to teach, as well as more manipulatives. On the other hand, the home instructor's guide offers much more teaching guidance than you'll get from Math Mammoth, so it gives you more hand-holding if you want that.  

[Syllieann]

If you like math mammoth but want to add manipulatives or reduce the writing, it is fairly easy. The concepts are presented pictorially in the teaching box. To add manipulatives you just pull out whatever is pictured and plop it on the table, tadaa. Counters (or beans, paper clips, whatever), base ten blocks, some money, and a few geometric solids should suffice for most of level 1. The writing is easily reduced by doing some of the problems orally, using number stickers/stamps, etc. I do agree with someone up thread who said that facts might need to be drilled separately. They are presented conceptually in math mammoth, but some kids (like mine) will keep using the tricks indefinitely and not memorize the facts.

[hisforhomeschooling]

MUS will not be much of a challenge, IMO.  Unless you plan on moving very quickly. 

 

One other thing to consider regarding MUS is whether or not testing is required in your state/district.  If it is, MUS may not be a good fit, because of its sequence.  

 

We DO use Singapore in a reproducible way...my books are three-hole punched and the kids use dry erase pockets and Vis-a-Vis wet erase markers to complete their pages.  When they are done, I put that kids' initial in the upper corner and refile the page for the next kid.  

 

Sweetpea3829- You are so inventive! That's a very creative way to be frugal. I think my boys need to be challenged, so thanks for that point of view. 

 

MUS can get spendy with the manipulatives. 

 

MM is easy to accelerate; MUS is not.

 

MUS is much more "hands on" if that is an important thing for your kids (it was for my son at that age).

 

MUS is slower and builds slower, so if you need repetition or have pacing stuff going on it is a good one.

 

Honestly, in first grade just about any math you pick, they like, and it is done regularly will work out in the end.  You have a lot of time.

 

EndofOrdinary- Thanks for the comparison! Have you used both then?

 

If your kids catch on fast, MM is a good choice.

 

I primarily use MUS and have gone through levels Primer to Geometry  with various kiddos.

 

I use MM to supplement so the kids meet all the learning points that their peers are "generally" learning in the local public schools. For instance, my 4th grader is getting 95% of what he needs from Delta--I'm just adding in more teaching on fractions and some extra portion of geometry from MM Grade 4.  

 

I also use MM for extension because I like how she presents doing double digit add/subtract problems mentally.  MUS does some of that as well, but MM is more explicit about it.

 

I had kids that needed an incremental approach, so MUS is our primary.  I had originally started the child who struggles the most on Singapore and she just couldn't do it.  So once I had  MUS for her, I just kept at it for the others because I understood and appreciated the approach.

 

I got into MM for extension purposes.  I like it.  It's affordable.  

 

But if your kids are zippy at math, I would just start with MM.  And remember to spiral back in review and spend extra time in getting basic facts down to automaticity.  (MUS does a good job of constant review and working on facts, but I don't think MM provides enough review, at least in the grade level and subjects I purchased. 

 

Stellalarella- Thanks! I love the term "zippy at math" :) They definitely do catch on fast. Which I find amazing because I am not math-minded. I was a secondary English teacher in another life :p My husband is super "zippy at math" so that is where they get it from. 

 

We are just barely into first grade math.  We did MUS Primer and Singapore Essentials for K.  My kids loved Singapore.  One did well with MUS primer for some basics but they dreaded the worksheets and the slow pace.  For first grade math, because they were still so young, I decided to experiment to see what would fit with them.  They HATED MM.  It took less than two weeks to determine those worksheets weren't for them, at that age.  Maybe I wasn't teaching it right.  But they went from loving math to hating it very quickly.  So, I went back to Singapore 1A.  They love it.  It works for all of us.  They like the colorful books, and I like the HIG.  But we also use some RightStart games and the abacus.  I never tried MUS Alpha because I didn't like the scope and sequence of MUS.  Not sure that helps with your question, but my answer would be neither MUS or MM.

 

RKWAcademy- The scope and sequence of MUS concerns me a bit, too. What do you see as the differences between MM and SM? I find it interesting that they are allegedly so similar but your kids had very different feelings towards them.

 

 

Math Mammoth is an excellent program in my opinion. I don't know anything about the other programs because we started and stayed with Math Mammoth from 1A to the end. I don't know anything about the other elementary math programs that you mentioned so I don't know how extensive the coverage of BJUK5 is. There are a ton of samples for Math Mammoth on the website, so there is little guess work in whether or not "its for you." just go through the samples, print some off and give them a whirl.

 

Some people complain that the pages are "too cluttered" whatever that means. It wasn't a problem for us and we used an older version. Since then, the author has re-done the program and I understand that the newer versions aren't as "visually cluttered." Math Mammoth is essentially a bunch of graded worksheets with teaching notes and so it it easy to "hack" the way you use it.

 

In Math Mammoth the first grade book has...9 chapters I think. I know that the first one is completely optional and if you've done a K math you probably don't need it. So the core 1st grade MM book program is 8 chapters

1A has chapter 0-Kindergarten Review, 1-Addition, 2-Subtraction and 3-Math Facts for Addition and Subtraction.

1B has chapter 4-Place Value to 100, 5-Clock, 6-Shapes and Measuring, 7-Adding and Subtracting within 100, and 8-Coins

 

In the first grade book you can begin with the "Kindergarten Math Review" chapter OR skip it. You can do chapters 5,6 and 8 when ever you want and I think it helps to "peck away" at those topics after chapters 1 and 2 but as you work through chapters 3,4 and 7. But just doing the chapters in sequence is fine too. When you complete Math Mammoth your kid will likely be fluent at addition and subtraction.

We used Math Mammoth and personally, I loved it. We only got good things from it.

 

Gil- Thanks for the thorough response! I think I will print out sample pages of all the ones we are considering and let the kids at them. See which one they like. Thanks for that suggestion!

 

I just got it (on Thursday) but have you looked at Shiller Math? You can do assessments and figure out what your child actually needs to learn, then teach only that. It is expensive at first, but it includes 5 years of free downloads of the consumables. So you can get all you will need for all (soon to be, I have 2 sisters from China btw :) ) 4 children. It also is for 3 years. So you are paying for it all up front, but then you are good for 3 years for 4 children!

 

I have just done 2 lessons with my son so I can't say much about the coursework, but it seems like it should be great. It is also VERY low pressure, and very positive. Completely scripted too. 

 

Anyway, just thought I would throw it out there. :)

 

3 ladybugs- thanks for that suggestion :) I will look into it!

 

[hisforhomeschooling]

 

So, I really like MUS, but I don't adore Alpha. It's basically shapes, ?a bit on money (I'm not sure) and your math facts to 20. But it's not bad, but there are lots of confusing little tricks, which I don't like.

 

I also like MM, but the pages have little white space, and are overwhelming, and her explanations are sometimes very convoluted. Her word problems are very good. Anyway, my plan for my upcoming Ker is to do kindergarten math, math facts to 20 using Kitchen Table math (and some stuff I've picked up along the way including some MM worksheets) and then move into Beta. I keep using MM when I need extra work-sheets. 

 

KSinNs- Haven't heard of Kitchen Table math. What do you like about MM that you don't like enough to use it?

 

I completely agree that Math Mammoth is excellent. I agree, too, with PPs that it's very similar to Singapore in approach. I love MM.

 

But ... we're among those people who found the pages too busy. To give some context, I was hyper-sensitive to the sense of overwhelm at the time we were trying out MM. We were switching from another program that *was* overwhelming in the wrong ways for my dd, and I needed make sure that whatever program we used brought back the math love. Her reaction to MM vs. her reaction to Singapore was what decided me to go for Singapore.

 

That's probably way more info. than you needed.   :001_smile:  But I do have a point! I'm suggesting that *if* you choose to try out MM, and *if* it just doesn't seem to click, then moving from MM to Singapore would be seamless because of their similar approaches.

 

Five More Minutes- Same question for you as I had for someone else: What are the differences and similarities with SM then? You're the 2nd person on this thread to say they're similar but you prefer SM. 

 

 

MUS is short and light, so it could be used as a supplement to something else (like MM or SM) if you like, especially if you do a longish or year-round school year. Alpha has only 30 lessons, and some of them are things like Adding Zero to Something--not really a week's worth of material. (Scope and sequence at http://mathusee.com/web-pdfs/TOCs/alphaTOC.pdf.)

 

Since your kids sound mathy, if you do pick MUS, you might want to do more than one level a year, or use something else for enrichment.

 

I used Primer and Alpha (videos only, not books) as supplements to Miquon and Singapore. I was able to buy them secondhand and resell them afterward. I haven't seen MM in person, so can't advise on that.

 

whitehawk- I think I want to keep it simple and stick to one curriculum, so I am thinking MUS isn't for us. Thanks for your thoughts!

 

MM would be my preferred math curriculum but my kids didn't do well with it.

 

If I were you, I would definitely start with MM because it is a great curriculum and so cheap  :)  If it didn't work, then you could look at something else. You won't really know until you try it.   

 

morningcoffee- Why would MM be your preferred curriculum? I agree that I think, at the very least, it makes sense to give my kiddos the sample pages. 

 

I recently wrote detailed reviews of Math Mammoth and Singapore, if you'd like some more details about the differences between the two of those. They have a lot of similarities in how they approach math (emphasizing concepts, lots of mental math) but they're very different in their teaching approaches. Singapore requires more preparation to teach, as well as more manipulatives. On the other hand, the home instructor's guide offers much more teaching guidance than you'll get from Math Mammoth, so it gives you more hand-holding if you want that.  

 

kateingr- I will read your reviews! Thanks for the short version here. I think I want less prep, but I think probably the manipulatives and color are part of the reason my boys are succeeding with BJU. 

 

Math Mammoth has a ton of problems on the page, no hands on activities, and a lot of writing. My older dd decided to tough it out in MM4, but MM 2 was just too much writing for my ds. We switched to Rightstart and it has been the perfect fit for him. He loves the games and manipulatives.

 

fairytalemama- Thanks for your thoughts! Another vote for Right Start. 

 

If you like math mammoth but want to add manipulatives or reduce the writing, it is fairly easy. The concepts are presented pictorially in the teaching box. To add manipulatives you just pull out whatever is pictured and plop it on the table, tadaa. Counters (or beans, paper clips, whatever), base ten blocks, some money, and a few geometric solids should suffice for most of level 1. The writing is easily reduced by doing some of the problems orally, using number stickers/stamps, etc. I do agree with someone up thread who said that facts might need to be drilled separately. They are presented conceptually in math mammoth, but some kids (like mine) will keep using the tricks indefinitely and not memorize the facts.

 

Syllieann- I was wondering about that. We already have so many manipulatives from BJU. I feel like it is easier to add hands-on activities and manipulatives than it is to add content. I have heard there are reviews and drills available on the site with the extra stuff for MM. 

 

[sweetpea3829]

You know...one thing you could do is buy the MUS blocks and use them alongside Singapore or MM.  I think the MUS blocks are an excellent complement to the Singapore bar models and the Singapore number bonds.  

 

Course...it can get expensive, lol.  But we have so many math curricula in our home anyways.  

 

When your kids are old enough, you should look into adding Beast Academy.  Eldest DS LOVES Beast Academy.  

 

Speaking of....I saw that you would prefer to just run one curriculum.  One thing you should be aware of with Singapore is that there are a lot of components.  For some users, that's a benefit...as you can customize it to meet your student's needs, as there are several options (extras, if you will).  But for others, juggling all of the components can be tedious.  

 

Just to give an idea, for Eldest DS, 4th grade...I ordered:

 

HIG A, HIG B

Textbook A and B

Workbook A and B

Intensive Practice A and B

Tests A and B

Challenging Word Problems

Process Skills in Problem Solving

 

I rotate most of that all in, at different times of the year.  For example, this summer, DS will use much of Test A and B from 3rd grade, as review.  

 

We took a break last fall and focused on Process Skills.  After that, I began rotating CWP into his daily work folders, a couple of times a week.  I use IP and extra WB pages for spiral review throughout the school year.  Then...we also have Beast Academy, which we sometimes run concurrently, and sometimes we take a break from Singapore and run just Beast.  And Competitive Math.  

 

Eldest DS is VERY mathy, and this work load is great for him.  Its one of the reasons I love Singapore for him, because it gives me so many ways of enriching his math experience.  

 

For others, you might not need CWP AND IP.  Maybe just one or the other.  Not everybody buys the Testbooks.  Not everybody uses Process Skills AND CWP.  

 

So there's lots of options there.  

 

 

 

[EndOfOrdinary]

I was an at risk math teacher. Though many of my students were significantly older, they had numerous math issues and MUS really helped many. It handled concepts in a way that resonated with many kids who were rather clueless other than algorithms which they felt made no sense. I used this one the most when teaching. When I stopped teaching to homeschool, I started tutoring. MM worked better for tutoring as it was more topically organized. Many of the tutoring kids needed practice rather than instruction. MM works well for instruction too (so they could have some back up), but they were ideal for practicing concepts that were fuzzy.

 

My son uses AoPS. It is the only curriculum I used. Before AoPS, we just did living math.

[Five More Minutes]

 

Five More Minutes- Same question for you as I had for someone else: What are the differences and similarities with SM then? You're the 2nd person on this thread to say they're similar but you prefer SM. 

 

 

I found that the approach to introducing concepts was very similar in MM and SM. In Gr. 1, which is when I was comparing them, both emphasized the composition of numbers (number bonds) in understanding addition and subtraction. Students were taught and encouraged to find ways of rearranging number parts to find the whole or vice versa. I liked the emphasis on understanding of concepts as a way to mastery.

 

My general impression is that MM and SM cover similar topics in each grade level. I have used MM every year when we hit the currency unit (being Canadian, I really need my dds to understand loonies and toonies!). Each time I've pulled that MM unit out, I've been impressed all over again with how seamlessly it fits into our SM lessons and how well it meshes with the approach SM takes with currency.

 

There were a few differences between SM and MM that I experienced, and I'll admit right away that I probably didn't do MM justice!

 

First, Singapore was just more appealing to my dds. The pictures are cute and the pages have more white space. That was a Very Big Deal for my eldest, and the main reason why we used SM in the end.

 

Second, Singapore with the HIG made it easy for me to move from the concrete (manipulatives) to the pictorial to the abstract. *I* found it harder to add in the concrete at the right point for MM, so had I used it, my dd would not have benefitted from discovering topics with manipulatives first. That was especially important in the early levels.*

 

Third, MM is designed to give parents a break and is written so that kids can be more independent in math early on. On the one hand, I love that. On the other, my dds and I both enjoy it when I am more involved in math and am introducing topics. For us, SM was more social.

 

Those small differences pushed us towards SM.

 

*ETA: My go-to maniuplatives have been cuisenaire rods. They work brilliantly for introducing number bonds and multiplication and the bar model approach used by both SM and MM.

[Pen]

We have used both. MUS worked better for my particular kid, using more than one level per year, because he is good at math but has dyslexia and the page lay out and so on of MM was not good at all for him.   MUS was rather boring but he could accelerate in it easily and it got the job done.

 

If you have a child who is sharp in math I'd consider also looking at Beast Academy though I don't know if they have 1st grade materials done yet.  My son thought it was much better than either MM or MUS, but they did not have his level ready in time for him.

[morningcoffee]

hisforhomeschooling, you asked why MM would be my preferred curriculum. 

 

I'm not sure I can explain it adequately but my main reason would be the way the curriculum pushed the student to apply what they had learnt. There is no way the student could complete the problems without thinking. They weren't just filling in the blanks because there had been a gazillion questions like that before and they were doing it by rote. It had such a variety of ways of testing understanding. It "told" me that my dd (now 13) didn't actually understand decimals like I thought she did and really all she had been doing previously was moving a dot around  :tongue_smilie:

 

Unfortunately it just moved too quickly and it had too few practice sets of the simple problems for *my* kids before jumping into the challenging. 

 

I am using MUS with my youngest (age 9) because it works and I'm grateful for it. I would have been more grateful if MM had worked though :) 

[RKWAcademy]

 

RKWAcademy- The scope and sequence of MUS concerns me a bit, too. What do you see as the differences between MM and SM? I find it interesting that they are allegedly so similar but your kids had very different feelings towards them.

 

 

 

The content of MM and SM are very similar.  I don't think you can go wrong with either, if they work for you.  My kids are just about to turn 6 and technically still in kindergarten.  So, they are still young.  They enjoyed the color and pictures of SM.  SM has the home instructor's guide which really helped me, and walked me through the manipulatives (a lot of times I did my own thing but the HIG is good).  MM was boring for them.  I've seen mentioned that some people cover some of the problems or cut the pages to make MM less overwhelming.  At this point, we just all like the whole SM package.  For my kids, it was probably all about color and pictures and a gentler approach.  But, it moves swiftly and the kids are retaining it.  For what it's worth, we do the mental math a lot (from HIG).  they jump on the trampoline while they do it.  It works for us and they remind me to do it if I go too long without requiring it.

[Mommy2BeautifulGirls]

My oldest, let-me-do-it-on-my-own kid uses Math Mammoth, and I seriously wish it went all the way through high school, because it is SUCH a great fit. She reads it and does the assignments and asks for help when she needs it. She does not learn well from being lectured. She needs to read it and see it for herself.

 

It does NOT work for her sister. It frustrates her. For her, MUS works well. If it continues to work well, she will use it through high school. She likes watching the videos and likes the simplicity of the worksheets. She doesn't always need the blocks, but I think knowing they're there if she needs them helps her.

 

My 4-year-old will be doing MUS Primer next year, but I'm hoping he works well with MM when he's older, because it will be way cheaper than having to purchase the MUS workbooks again.

[Jess4879]

We used MM Gr. 1 for my middle kiddo and she just burnt out on it.  I think it's a solid program and we still pull word problems and money units from it, but as a core it was just not a good fit for us.  The pages are boring and have way too many problems on them.  I also found my mind doesn't "think" math the MM way, so even at the grade one level I was having to figure out exactly what was being explained and often struggled to help the kids understand exactly what was being taught.  It's also a lot of writing and use of manipulatives is not built in. 

 

My oldest used it as a core for a year as well (gr. 3...I think it was) and it just didn't work.  Both kids were just "getting through it."  They would figure out that days lesson and pump in the answers and then promptly forget. 

 

We switched my oldest to TT and my middle kiddo to BJU.  I have never used the K level, but the grade 2 & 3 levels have been very open and go once you get your materials packet ready. 

[Momto4inSoCal]

We used MUS last year and are using MM this year. MUS works very different that other math curriculum. MUS has you spend a year on each concept and fully learn that concept then move on to another concept. Last year my daughter used gamma which is pretty much all multiplication. We switched to MiF this school year (US version of Singapore math) and it was a bad fit for us. Tears daily, doing math till 5pm. I think part of the problem was she didn't cover most of the concepts normally introduced in 3rd grade since her book was all multiplication. I have a daughter a year behind her and watching her progression through MM I can see how much more she will be prepared for MM4. MM teaches step by step carefully guiding the student to harder topics and MiF doesn't break it down quite as much. I've watched my non mathy daughter go from not understanding anything other than algorithms to doing math problems in her head and understanding multiple step word problems. I do think if we had started with Singapore math at a younger age instead of trying MUS it might have worked out but we didn't and at this point I am sticking with what is working.

[hisforhomeschooling]

You know...one thing you could do is buy the MUS blocks and use them alongside Singapore or MM.  I think the MUS blocks are an excellent complement to the Singapore bar models and the Singapore number bonds.  

 

Course...it can get expensive, lol.  But we have so many math curricula in our home anyways.  

 

When your kids are old enough, you should look into adding Beast Academy.  Eldest DS LOVES Beast Academy.  

 

Speaking of....I saw that you would prefer to just run one curriculum.  One thing you should be aware of with Singapore is that there are a lot of components.  For some users, that's a benefit...as you can customize it to meet your student's needs, as there are several options (extras, if you will).  But for others, juggling all of the components can be tedious.  

 

Just to give an idea, for Eldest DS, 4th grade...I ordered:

 

HIG A, HIG B

Textbook A and B

Workbook A and B

Intensive Practice A and B

Tests A and B

Challenging Word Problems

Process Skills in Problem Solving

 

I rotate most of that all in, at different times of the year.  For example, this summer, DS will use much of Test A and B from 3rd grade, as review.  

 

We took a break last fall and focused on Process Skills.  After that, I began rotating CWP into his daily work folders, a couple of times a week.  I use IP and extra WB pages for spiral review throughout the school year.  Then...we also have Beast Academy, which we sometimes run concurrently, and sometimes we take a break from Singapore and run just Beast.  And Competitive Math.  

 

Eldest DS is VERY mathy, and this work load is great for him.  Its one of the reasons I love Singapore for him, because it gives me so many ways of enriching his math experience.  

 

For others, you might not need CWP AND IP.  Maybe just one or the other.  Not everybody buys the Testbooks.  Not everybody uses Process Skills AND CWP.  

 

So there's lots of options there.  

 

Sweetpea3829- I did notice that about SM. It seems like a ton to buy and get through! Rotating it makes sense when there is that much. If we use MM, I am definitely going to buy some kind of blocks to use with it. Base 10 at the very least. 

 

I was an at risk math teacher. Though many of my students were significantly older, they had numerous math issues and MUS really helped many. It handled concepts in a way that resonated with many kids who were rather clueless other than algorithms which they felt made no sense. I used this one the most when teaching. When I stopped teaching to homeschool, I started tutoring. MM worked better for tutoring as it was more topically organized. Many of the tutoring kids needed practice rather than instruction. MM works well for instruction too (so they could have some back up), but they were ideal for practicing concepts that were fuzzy.

 

My son uses AoPS. It is the only curriculum I used. Before AoPS, we just did living math.

 

EndofOrdinary- I feel like a lot of people are saying that MUS is great with kids who either a) don't like math b) don't get math and/or c) need/like the hands-on component. The only of those catergories my DSs fit into is possibly the hands-on thing, but since I have never done anything else with them for math yet, I don't know. And since adding manipulatives in is easy, I am thinking maybe MUS isn't the way for us to go. 

 

I found that the approach to introducing concepts was very similar in MM and SM. In Gr. 1, which is when I was comparing them, both emphasized the composition of numbers (number bonds) in understanding addition and subtraction. Students were taught and encouraged to find ways of rearranging number parts to find the whole or vice versa. I liked the emphasis on understanding of concepts as a way to mastery.

 

My general impression is that MM and SM cover similar topics in each grade level. I have used MM every year when we hit the currency unit (being Canadian, I really need my dds to understand loonies and toonies!). Each time I've pulled that MM unit out, I've been impressed all over again with how seamlessly it fits into our SM lessons and how well it meshes with the approach SM takes with currency.

 

There were a few differences between SM and MM that I experienced, and I'll admit right away that I probably didn't do MM justice!

 

First, Singapore was just more appealing to my dds. The pictures are cute and the pages have more white space. That was a Very Big Deal for my eldest, and the main reason why we used SM in the end.

 

Second, Singapore with the HIG made it easy for me to move from the concrete (manipulatives) to the pictorial to the abstract. *I* found it harder to add in the concrete at the right point for MM, so had I used it, my dd would not have benefitted from discovering topics with manipulatives first. That was especially important in the early levels.*

 

Third, MM is designed to give parents a break and is written so that kids can be more independent in math early on. On the one hand, I love that. On the other, my dds and I both enjoy it when I am more involved in math and am introducing topics. For us, SM was more social.

 

Those small differences pushed us towards SM.

 

*ETA: My go-to maniuplatives have been cuisenaire rods. They work brilliantly for introducing number bonds and multiplication and the bar model approach used by both SM and MM.

 

Five More Minutes- How convenient for me that you are comparing them from 1st grade! That's very helpful! Because of my kids' ages, homeschooling is definitely social more than independent at this point. I am either sitting with them, or doing one of those endless chores (laundry, I'm looking at you) if they are drawing a picture for notebooking or something like that. The option of having some level of independence built in is appealing though so DS5 can do something for a couple minutes by himself while I get DS3 or DS1 settled or read directions to DS3. I do a lot of going from one child to another, so MM appeals to me for that reason. 

 

We have used both. MUS worked better for my particular kid, using more than one level per year, because he is good at math but has dyslexia and the page lay out and so on of MM was not good at all for him.   MUS was rather boring but he could accelerate in it easily and it got the job done.

 

If you have a child who is sharp in math I'd consider also looking at Beast Academy though I don't know if they have 1st grade materials done yet.  My son thought it was much better than either MM or MUS, but they did not have his level ready in time for him.

 

Pen- Beast Academy looks like so much fun! The youngest one that they offer at the moment is 3rd grade. Boooooo. 

 

hisforhomeschooling, you asked why MM would be my preferred curriculum. 

 

I'm not sure I can explain it adequately but my main reason would be the way the curriculum pushed the student to apply what they had learnt. There is no way the student could complete the problems without thinking. They weren't just filling in the blanks because there had been a gazillion questions like that before and they were doing it by rote. It had such a variety of ways of testing understanding. It "told" me that my dd (now 13) didn't actually understand decimals like I thought she did and really all she had been doing previously was moving a dot around  :tongue_smilie:

 

Unfortunately it just moved too quickly and it had too few practice sets of the simple problems for *my* kids before jumping into the challenging. 

 

I am using MUS with my youngest (age 9) because it works and I'm grateful for it. I would have been more grateful if MM had worked though :)

 

morningcoffee- I really like your explanation. My DSs are both great memorizers, so the fact that MM forces them to think is appealing. 

[hisforhomeschooling]

The content of MM and SM are very similar.  I don't think you can go wrong with either, if they work for you.  My kids are just about to turn 6 and technically still in kindergarten.  So, they are still young.  They enjoyed the color and pictures of SM.  SM has the home instructor's guide which really helped me, and walked me through the manipulatives (a lot of times I did my own thing but the HIG is good).  MM was boring for them.  I've seen mentioned that some people cover some of the problems or cut the pages to make MM less overwhelming.  At this point, we just all like the whole SM package.  For my kids, it was probably all about color and pictures and a gentler approach.  But, it moves swiftly and the kids are retaining it.  For what it's worth, we do the mental math a lot (from HIG).  they jump on the trampoline while they do it.  It works for us and they remind me to do it if I go too long without requiring it.

 

RKWAcademy- Haha, love the trampoline idea. Whatever works! Thanks for your thoughts!

 

My oldest, let-me-do-it-on-my-own kid uses Math Mammoth, and I seriously wish it went all the way through high school, because it is SUCH a great fit. She reads it and does the assignments and asks for help when she needs it. She does not learn well from being lectured. She needs to read it and see it for herself.

 

It does NOT work for her sister. It frustrates her. For her, MUS works well. If it continues to work well, she will use it through high school. She likes watching the videos and likes the simplicity of the worksheets. She doesn't always need the blocks, but I think knowing they're there if she needs them helps her.

 

My 4-year-old will be doing MUS Primer next year, but I'm hoping he works well with MM when he's older, because it will be way cheaper than having to purchase the MUS workbooks again.

 

Mommy2beautifulgirls- The cheapness of MM is definitely a consideration with multiple kids. I wish more companies offered reproducible workbooks within a homeschooling family. I find it so interesting that people use different curricula with different kids. I wonder if this is specific to math or if, say, handwriting has similar issues. 

 

We used MM Gr. 1 for my middle kiddo and she just burnt out on it.  I think it's a solid program and we still pull word problems and money units from it, but as a core it was just not a good fit for us.  The pages are boring and have way too many problems on them.  I also found my mind doesn't "think" math the MM way, so even at the grade one level I was having to figure out exactly what was being explained and often struggled to help the kids understand exactly what was being taught.  It's also a lot of writing and use of manipulatives is not built in. 

 

My oldest used it as a core for a year as well (gr. 3...I think it was) and it just didn't work.  Both kids were just "getting through it."  They would figure out that days lesson and pump in the answers and then promptly forget. 

 

We switched my oldest to TT and my middle kiddo to BJU.  I have never used the K level, but the grade 2 & 3 levels have been very open and go once you get your materials packet ready. 

 

Jess4879- BJU is open-and-go once I have all the materials gathered, but I didn't like the 2D manipulatives, so I supplement with things I already had on hand for "tot school" from when my kids were younger. They enjoy the 3D objects but there is so much to do in the K. It seems like that's how BJU is across all subjects. Lots of extra materials and prep. They are learning a ton but I just don't think I can keep up with it even another year. 

 

We used MUS last year and are using MM this year. MUS works very different that other math curriculum. MUS has you spend a year on each concept and fully learn that concept then move on to another concept. Last year my daughter used gamma which is pretty much all multiplication. We switched to MiF this school year (US version of Singapore math) and it was a bad fit for us. Tears daily, doing math till 5pm. I think part of the problem was she didn't cover most of the concepts normally introduced in 3rd grade since her book was all multiplication. I have a daughter a year behind her and watching her progression through MM I can see how much more she will be prepared for MM4. MM teaches step by step carefully guiding the student to harder topics and MiF doesn't break it down quite as much. I've watched my non mathy daughter go from not understanding anything other than algorithms to doing math problems in her head and understanding multiple step word problems. I do think if we had started with Singapore math at a younger age instead of trying MUS it might have worked out but we didn't and at this point I am sticking with what is working.

 

Momto4inSoCal- Choosing a math curriculum is so stressful. I need to remember this thread, and remember to switch things up if they don't work. I wouldn't have realized how many families use different curriculum with different kids, or even trash one that isn't working and move on, unless I had brought this up. Glad I know this now!

[sweetpea3829]

Momto4inSoCal- Choosing a math curriculum is so stressful. I need to remember this thread, and remember to switch things up if they don't work. I wouldn't have realized how many families use different curriculum with different kids, or even trash one that isn't working and move on, unless I had brought this up. Glad I know this now!

 

 

Hah, wait until you try to find comprehensive language arts instruction.  We are starting 4th grade with the oldest two next year and I feel like I STILL haven't found what I'm looking for (absolutely sing that to the tune of U2s song).  

 

I will say...it is probably most likely that you will find math to be the subject that most folks will use varied curricula for, depending on their student.  For whatever reason, the range of ability in math seems to stretch much more widely than in language arts.  At least, to me it seems.

 

My kids are varied in their reading abilities, but it hasn't required me to switch up my reading curriculum, or language arts curriculum.  

 

Then again, my middle son has had a rough time with AAS, and my oldest two have flourished with it sooo....maybe he would benefit from a different spelling.  

 

Anyways, because of the need to provide multiple curricula for math, I really had no choice but to use our workbooks in such a way as to make them reusable.  There's no way we could afford to school them all, otherwise, lol.  

[hisforhomeschooling]

Hah, wait until you try to find comprehensive language arts instruction.  We are starting 4th grade with the oldest two next year and I feel like I STILL haven't found what I'm looking for (absolutely sing that to the tune of U2s song).  

 

I will say...it is probably most likely that you will find math to be the subject that most folks will use varied curricula for, depending on their student.  For whatever reason, the range of ability in math seems to stretch much more widely than in language arts.  At least, to me it seems.

 

My kids are varied in their reading abilities, but it hasn't required me to switch up my reading curriculum, or language arts curriculum.  

 

Then again, my middle son has had a rough time with AAS, and my oldest two have flourished with it sooo....maybe he would benefit from a different spelling.  

 

Anyways, because of the need to provide multiple curricula for math, I really had no choice but to use our workbooks in such a way as to make them reusable.  There's no way we could afford to school them all, otherwise, lol.  

 

Sorry it took me so long to respond! Thanks for the conversation :) We are going to do Math Mammoth for DS5 and let DS3 follow along again, and maybe let DS3 him do a K Star Wars workbook if he doesn't want to do MM. 

[momto3boys]

I haven't read through everything but wanted to chime in-this past year was our first homeschooling and I started my 1st and 3rd grade boys on Math Mammoth.  The math approach was great but they HATED it.  It was worksheet after worksheet and it just didn't work for them as far as enjoying learning.  I switched to SM and it was 100% better.  The manipulatives and the bright colorful text really make the difference for them.  Just my 2 cents. :)