Whereneverever Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 These threads come up a bit in google searches. If you go to the main forum page and scroll down to where you see who is on you can then click on "see full list." This will show you oodles of guests and MANY older threads of all sorts that end up being looked at on any given day. The writer could be someone who is here and just not that great at reporting accurately or it could be someone who found the thread via a search engine and assumed the whole forum deals motherhood rather than homeschooling - but of course, labeled it as anti-vac "forum" instead of thread to make it sound more impressive. Of course, they also might not know the difference between a forum and a thread if it's an older writer who isn't on much aside from quick searches. Ah, but searching on google and the like takes into account the sites you've previously visited. If I search incognito these forums don't come up in the vax debate stuff. Google metrics are a powerful thing. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 So you seriously see nothing wrong with the Hive being seen as a: "Looking at anti-vaccination and non-vaccination online forums" I see that label as identifying us (group) as anti-vac which is misleading. It could have been stated far more accurately without adding tons of text, but noting that there are just a few with those beliefs and oodles who aren't wouldn't get the author's biased point across as strongly as implying there are anti-vac FORUMS out there. I'm suggesting quoting comments from our community is neither a breach of privacy, implied or otherwise, or that arguments supporting vaccines in that thread negate the illustrative purposes for which those two posts were quoted and publicized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I don't follow. When we post on an open forum, we give permission for any and all of our words, images, and other content to be copied and used elsewhere. When the arguments were made against the benefits of vaccines here, the posters gave their consent to be quoted anywhere on or offline. Comments made here are public, and there simply is no indication or implication any poster should think otherwise. The article identified certain trends among anti-vaccine argument, and quoted concrete examples that illustrate these ideas. Conspiracy theories and dismissal of the dangers of contagious diseases are two that were illustrated from here. As awkward as it may feel, we shouldn't conflate the issues here. This isn't about being quoted out of context or about being quoted without permission. Perhaps it's about embarrassment for being associated with what many call anti-intellectual arguments. It is for me. I can understand this. The article made my shoulders sag a bit.I recognize the right of the individuals quoted to hold their beliefs and to express them, but those opinions can make my job defending my choice to homeschool a more difficult task. Sometimes when someone asks where ds goes to school and they inch away a few steps when I tell them, I feel like launching into a disclaimer, "He doesn't live in the broom closet, fed only bread and water; he has all of his shots, and he takes AP Biology, which is evolution-centered. Do you have any more questions?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Ah, but searching on google and the like takes into account the sites you've previously visited. If I search incognito these forums don't come up in the vax debate stuff. Google metrics are a powerful thing. :) I can easily get WTM threads to come up via google when I'm at school on very different computers where the cookies are erased daily. They may not be the top link, but they are often on the first page or two. I don't even have to be logged in as myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Sometimes when someone asks where ds goes to school and they inch away a few steps when I tell them, I feel like launching into a disclaimer, "He doesn't live in the broom closet, fed only bread and water; he has all of his shots, and he takes AP Biology, which is evolution-centered. Do you have any more questions?" Ok, so our minds don't always think alike. We always told anyone questioning that we let our kids out of their rooms once per week IF they were good... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I have never, in my entire life, seen a reporter get the facts right in a situation where I was a witness to events or had close friends who were witnesses. A lot of times, the errors weren't that important, just laughable. But it does make one realize that just about anything written by a reporter is suspect. Exactly. Usually the reporter makes me look smarter than I really am :P but still, it is uncomfortable knowing that just because they put quotes around it, everyone in the world believes I said that, and further, that I said it in the context in which the quoter is using it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Ok, so our minds don't always think alike. We always told anyone questioning that we let our kids out of their rooms once per week IF they were good... :rofl: No one in my family likes to use my laptop. Do you think it has something to do with the coffee I can't quite get off the screen? Thanks, Creekland! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Really? we do? to anyone and everyone? I don't mind if the owner of the board uses my words, but I'd be pretty upset if another poster was copying stuff from here to elsewhere. Sure, it might happen and you have to be careful. But that doesn't mean the people writing here have "given permission" to do it. As I understand, yes, permission is given to the forum, which makes it public to anyone and everyone. As per the terms of use (of which you confirm your acceptance when you post on the forums): BASIC CONDITIONS. These Terms of Use constitute a legally binding agreement between you and PHP.... PUBLICLY AVAILABLE SITE. The Site is not a password-protected site, and the Forums are not password-protected either. Anyone can access the Forums and read your Posts. INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY. PHP owns all rights in and to the Site... In other words, once you post to the forums, PHP owns your content. They make it public. There is no agreement between PHP and the public for the use of your content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I don't think what they did was illegal, just kind of mean. :/ As for me being dumb enough to post personal stuff here despite knowing it is public? What can I say ... I never assume the whole world would find my comments or life story interesting enough to repeat. I would feel terrible, though, if some stuff about my family came out in a widely read publication and they read it. Only my family would know whom it was talking about, but still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonfirmath Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 As I understand, yes, permission is given to the forum, which makes it public to anyone and everyone. As per the terms of use (of which you confirm your acceptance when you post on the forums): In other words, once you post to the forums, PHP owns your content. They make it public. There is no agreement between PHP and the public use of your content. To me THAT is a lot different from giving permission to everyone to reprint stuff they see here. Anyone can access the site and read your post. NOT anyone can reprint it. PHP (the owner of the site) owns it. Not anyone and everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmseB Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 I don't follow. When we post on an open forum, we give permission for any and all of our words, images, and other content to be copied and used elsewhere. When the arguments were made against the benefits of vaccines here, the posters gave their consent to be quoted anywhere on or offline. Comments made here are public, and there simply is no indication or implication any poster should think otherwise. The article identified certain trends among anti-vaccine argument, and quoted concrete examples that illustrate these ideas. Conspiracy theories and dismissal of the dangers of contagious diseases are two that were illustrated from here. As awkward as it may feel, we shouldn't conflate the issues here. This isn't about being quoted out of context or about being quoted without permission. Perhaps it's about embarrassment for being associated with what many call anti-intellectual arguments. It is for me. This isn't true. Public != for anyone and everyone to use as they see fit. The comments and things posted here may become IP of whomever owns the forum, but that doesn't mean anyone can copy them or use them for whatever they want. In this case, the author may not have violated fair use guidelines to the point of having a legal case, but that doesn't make your blanket statement true. Many people post photos on flickr and the like, but the photos are still the property of the person who took them, even though they are publicly viewable in an internet forum. Blog photos get published on pinterest, but the blog owner still holds the rights to their own work. I may be giving up my ownership of my words when I publish them here, but it's not If I post a picture I took here, the TOS may say that PHP or SWB can use the photo, but that doesn't mean anyone can come in and then, say, publish the photo or sell it. The TOS here say this (with site content defined as including our posts): OTHER LIMITATIONS ON USE OF THE SITE. You may not: Repost or distribute copies of any of any Site Content for any commercial purpose. I'm not embarrassed by comments that other people make on this forum, and I'm not conflating issues. They can own their words, I don't really care what they say. That's like saying I'd be embarrassed to have a twitter account because there's a lot of dreck that gets posted there. It has nothing to do with me. I just think the story is bad journalism and doesn't have a lot of merit. People on the internet say stuff -- story at 11!! Anonymous sources do have their place, but random internet comments from people the author can't even verify are anti-vax (as per the woman from mothering.com who was actually pro-vax, and apparently another person who was quoted under a different screenname) are not the place to use them for any type of article with integrity. If we want to "expose" anti-vax'ers as some kind of end goal, stories like the interview that CNN did with "Dr." Jack Wolfson are much more enlightening and helpful to show the public where people are getting this stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldberry Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Good reminders about privacy...glad I changed my user name to something more anonymous awhile back... Awkward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 If the quotes were longer I would say there might be a copyright issue. But they were pretty short excerpts. I would rather not fuss over the copyright since I don't want to be identified publicly ("given proper credit") as the author of stuff I ramble about here. I think it's in poor taste to do what they did, but so are a lot of things I see online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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