Other books like Divine Comedy or Paradise Lost

[Joules]

I just changed the topic from specifically American Lit., because we aren't finding anything, but are finding ourselves curious about other similar pieces. It would be particularly interesting from any other cultures.

 

Original message:

This one from ds, as we are looking for American lit. pieces to finish out the year. He would like to know if there is something like Dante's Divine Comedy or Milton's Paradise Lost in American literature. He thinks a uniquely American perspective on these things would be interesting. (This is way out of my wheelhouse.)

[Joules]

*little bump*

Sorry, I changed the title and question, but it didn't rise to the top. I'm hoping this insightful and well-read group can send me off in the right direction.

[Momling]

Why does he like them? Verse? Multiple volumes? Christian mythology?

 

I'm sure a devil character features in tons of literature, but all I can think of is:

Faust

The Mysterious stranger

Satanic Verses

Good Omens

The Stand

[Chrysalis Academy]

Right, what aspect are you wanting to explore?

 

American lit with devil as a character - something like The Devil and Daniel Webster by Steven Vincent Benet, or Young Goodman Brown by Nathaniel Hawthorne.

 

Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy has many flavors of both Divine Comedy and Paradise Lost, but a non-Christian POV.  He's British, his books are set in a paralell universe in Britain/Europe.

 

Frankenstein by Mary Shelly has a definite connection to Paradise Lost - the monster reads that book and tries to find a parallel to his own situation in the relationship between God, Adam and Satan

 

Faust, definitely.

 

The Master and Margarita is a 20th century Russian novel.  The devil visits Russia, where no one believes in him.

 

I think Blake's poetry has a ton of Christian mythology with images that are related to Divine Comedy and Paradise Lost.

[Julie in MN]

If you're willing to go outside of America, I was thinking about something from CS Lewis, like The Great Divorce or Screwtape.  GK Chesterton is also thought of as a very theology-oriented writer, but I haven't personally read anything very long by him. 

 

Many (including the author herself) see theological themes in the writing of Flannery O'Connor, who is American.  She is a good writer and very American, but personally I tend to think she takes a long ugly trip for a small point :(

 

There are lots of fairly recent American Christian analogies that use the theme of knights (e.g. the Kingdom Series and the Sword of Lyric series), but none that have the literary status of Divine Comedy. 

 

Interesting topic,

Julie

[Joules]

Why does he like them? Verse? Multiple volumes? Christian mythology?

 

 

Well, I asked and I will try to summarize what I understood (horribly paraphrased) with what I know:

 

He's fascinated with mythology and loves beautiful language and writing with depth. These books use stories that not only tell how the cultures view Heaven, Hell, and their relationships, but also give deeper insight into the cultures themselves. They ascribe human motivations to hypernatural manifestions of good and evil. The Illiad and the Bhagava Gita provide similar insights from non-Christian cultures.

 

So in looking for something from American culture, he's looking for literary insight into how Christianity evolved in the American context....America writing itself into the narrative with the pilgrims, Manifest Destiny, and American exceptionalism. Some perceived differences might be more focus on the end of times, different views of the old testament, and more focus on the war between heaven and hell. He's not interested in essays (I think he's already read some), he's interested in literature (allegory?) that conveys these beliefs (or provides more insight?)

 

Clear as mud? I'm a scientist and though I love reading, I don't LOVE literature or understand it on the level he does. When he gets on a roll, it's like listening to an English professor and the liberal quoting of Milton doesn't necessarily help my understanding.

 

 

 

BTW, he's not Christian, but interested from an academic perspective.

[Joules]

Thank you all so much for the suggestions!

 

He loved Faust and Good Omens. I can't say he loved Frankenstein (too painfully sad), but it is what made him want to read Milton.

 

All of O'Connor he's read is As I Lay Dying. He's gone again, so I can't ask if it fits. It was really sad, too, but I think my mom's recent death made that harder.

[8filltheheart]

I'm still not sure I understand what you are seeking.  But, maybe focusing on understanding American Romanticism http://www.westga.edu/~mmcfar/AMERICAN%20ROMANTICISM%20overview.htm  and reading the transcendentalist/universalist authors and poets like Emily Dickinson accompanied by reading about their lives and personal beliefs would be the umbrella he wants.

[katilac]

 Inferno, Paradise Lost, Iliad, Gita - these are all epics, and there is no American equivalent per se. 

 

Maybe I'm blanking, but I can't think of any great literature examples. I think the truest 'feel' for early American religious thought is probably gained through reading some of the famous sermons, like Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God. 

 

Of course there are strong religious themes in some American literature, but it's not as overt or encompassing as your examples. 

[Joules]

I'm still not sure I understand what you are seeking. But, maybe focusing on understanding American Romanticism http://www.westga.edu/~mmcfar/AMERICAN%20ROMANTICISM%20overview.htm and reading the transcendentalist/universalist authors and poets like Emily Dickinson accompanied by reading about their lives and personal beliefs would be the umbrella he wants.

Thanks for the link. I'm learning more every day and passing it on. I'm still not sure what he's seeking, a certain something that fills a certain niche, but not having read everything, I don't quite get it and am not sure it exists. (We likely start dual enrollment next year, so someone else can field these questions :) )

[Joules]

Inferno, Paradise Lost, Iliad, Gita - these are all epics, and there is no American equivalent per se.

 

Maybe I'm blanking, but I can't think of any great literature examples. I think the truest 'feel' for early American religious thought is probably gained through reading some of the famous sermons, like Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God.

 

Of course there are strong religious themes in some American literature, but it's not as overt or encompassing as your examples.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Maybe I'm not as poorly read as I thought. Maybe I can't think of one because it doesn't exist....An Amercian Christian allegorical epic??

 

On the upside, thanks to all for the suggestions. He is reading them, one by one. Not what he's looking for, but he is enjoying them. He finished The Mysterious Stranger and some short things yesterday and started on Satanic Verses last night (though he feels like he does not know enough Indian culture to get all of the humor.) Anyone know a great study guide for Satanic Verses?

[Joules]

Inferno, Paradise Lost, Iliad, Gita - these are all epics,...

 

 

One more question: Worldwide, what other books fit in this set?

[RootAnn]

I know nothing about the books, but thought of your request when I heard about author Walker Percy recently. Perhaps his first book, "the Moviegoer," would be a good one to add to his list?

[Farrar]

No one mentioned Hawthorne, but I feel like Twice Told Tales is just dripping with allegory. I'll bet he'd enjoy "Young Goodman Brown" and "The Maypole of Marymount."

[katilac]

One more question: Worldwide, what other books fit in this set?

 

Here are a few of the most famous/important epics that address some of those themes:

 

• Gilgamesh: the oldest known work of literature; strong themes of life/eternal life, man/god, and friendship. We liked the David Ferry translation - you don't want one intended for use in the classroom, b/c they have to remove all the interesting stuff  ;)
• Aneid: the Roman 'answer' to Iliad and Odyssey; influenced by them but intentionally written as opposed to flowing from oral tradition
• Beowulf: fate, bravery, monsters, good/evil, and so on; it began as an oral poem in the pagan tradition but was written down in a Christian era, which makes for odd reading sometimes 
• The Song of Roland: this might make a good comparison to The Iliad; it's based on the Battle of Roncevaux, Charlemagne's army battling the Muslims in Spain, with lots of similar themes of courage, honor, worthy opponents, the hand of god(s), etc 

If he's interested in the epic as a genre, I really liked the Monsters, Gods, and Heroes lectures from The Modern Scholar. I think they are only in audio; you can get them on Audible (at their site or via Amazon). It's Western centric but does a good job explaining what defines an epic. 

 

[Candid]

To repeat what others have said, what he likes in my opinion, is epic poetry. Milton really is the tale end of that, hence no American equivalent. However I'd challenge him to go back and pick up some of the things he missed. Iliad, Odyssey, Aeneid, Beowulf, The Fairy Queen. 

 

If he wants something that influenced Americans especially in regards to religion, then Pilgrim's Progress is the book. For a long time it was the number two best selling, most read book, especially by American Christians. He should remember that just because something isn't American doesn't mean that it isn't influential. Along the same lines, he can then go to Hawthorne's short stories and maybe Uncle Tom's Cabin. But those were much, much later in terms of influence and less religious in terms of their influence.