happyhome Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 DD and I are beginning to plan her freshman year. Can somebody help me understand the following: What is required for an English credit? Do you need separate literature, writing and grammar every year? For example, if an online English class counts as "1 Literature credit," then would we need a separate writing and grammar component? Or, if a class is called "Advanced Composition," does that mean we need to find something else for literature? I've heard many say that grammar is not needed in HS if skills are solid. DD has completed R&S 2-8. Would you feel comfortable ending formal grammar instruction? DD is a strong reader/writer and wants to pursue writing/storytelling through college and beyond. She's not sure if it will be novels, screenplays, film, magazines...she just knows she wants to write. With that plan in mind, what would you do in 9th and 10th grade to prepare for AP Comp in 11th and AP Lit in 12th? Is the traditional English track necessary for this kid? Could she do a CC screenwriting class and call that English or are we reaching? Does a Creative Writing class count as a credit? Are colleges flexible on what constitutes an English credit? I guess I'm just wondering how we can create tailored classes focused on her interests and not waste her time with research papers that she will never need? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiana Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 I can't answer some of your questions, but: If a student is able to apply grammar rules and create well-crafted sentences, I would consider grammar instruction done at high school. As far as "research papers she will never need", I would hesitate to completely eliminate them as whatever she majors in at university, she may end up completing them in other courses for general education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhome Posted November 26, 2014 Author Share Posted November 26, 2014 Thanks Kiana. I see your point on research papers. I want to keep her options open and still give her room for interest led courses. Kwim? It just seems that with all the "requirements" of HS English, she won't have the time to really pursue the writing she wants to do. I guess I'm trying to figure out how to follow her lead and still be able to count it as legitimate credit. I definitely don't want to cut corners and I'm not trying to play games on a transcript. I'm seriously wondering about the limits of creativity we have as homeschoolers. Do you have to have Lit and Comp every year to count it? Or could you do Shakespeare Lit with a screenwriting class instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie Q Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 It may depend on how you are registered as homeschoolers, but in general a 1-credit English course for high school includes literature, composition and grammar. You may not need to continue with formal grammar instruction if your child is strong in these skills, but she should continue to receive feedback on grammar usage in her compositions. If your daughter is considering writing as a career, I would think you would want to be sure all of her bases are covered in English each year so that she has no gaps to cause difficulties in her college years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverMoon Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 English here is generally half lit and half comp, with some grammar and vocab thrown in if needed. So far with my 9th and 10th graders, we've used Great Books that line up with the history period they're studying. In reality it looks more like a whole lit credit, half a comp credit, and half a history credit (using a history textbook and lectures), but it will be one English credit and one history credit on their transcripts. I can't help with the AP prep. We're not there yet. DS/10th could handle the lit, but prefers our quirky homemade courses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhome Posted November 26, 2014 Author Share Posted November 26, 2014 It may depend on how you are registered as homeschoolers, but in general a 1-credit English course for high school includes literature, composition and grammar. You may not need to continue with formal grammar instruction if your child is strong in these skills, but she should continue to receive feedback on grammar usage in her compositions. If your daughter is considering writing as a career, I would think you would want to be sure all of her bases are covered in English each year so that she has no gaps to cause difficulties in her college years. Oh yes. Definitely want to cover the bases. I'm just trying to do it in a way that is relevant for her. It sounds like my ideas may just be too far off the beaten path. She's leaning toward a small LAC for college so her English plan has to be strong. Our original plan was Honors English 1 and 2 followed by 2 years of literature-based AP coursework. Maybe that's the route we should stick with. We can move the creative writing/screenwriting back into the "elective" column. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fairfarmhand Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 WRT to research papers, it is really important that she knows HOW TO WRITE THEM. That's a huge focus of many college classes. Researching a topic, pulling it together in a coherent paper. I'd also focus on the mechanics of footnotes and accurate sources, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhome Posted November 26, 2014 Author Share Posted November 26, 2014 English here is generally half lit and half comp, with some grammar and vocab thrown in if needed. So far with my 9th and 10th graders, we've used Great Books that line up with the history period they're studying. In reality it looks more like a whole lit credit, half a comp credit, and half a history credit (using a history textbook and lectures), but it will be one English credit and one history credit on their transcripts. I can't help with the AP prep. We're not there yet. DS/10th could handle the lit, but prefers our quirky homemade courses. That was our original plan for history/lit. I think we'll probably stick with it. She would start Ancients again next year. How many great books and compositions constitute a credit though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverMoon Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 That was our original plan for history/lit. I think we'll probably stick with it. She would start Ancients again next year. How many great books and compositions constitute a credit though? As far as I know there isn't a firm X books and Y essays answer. It goes more by hours involved. Check out the sticky by Lori D for great info on those. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhome Posted November 26, 2014 Author Share Posted November 26, 2014 WRT to research papers, it is really important that she knows HOW TO WRITE THEM. That's a huge focus of many college classes. Researching a topic, pulling it together in a coherent paper. I'd also focus on the mechanics of footnotes and accurate sources, etc. I agree. I remember those papers well. I'll definitely work in the skills related to research papers. I was just wondering if an English credit requires year long coursework devoted to this type of writing, like I've seen in Advanced Composition course descriptions. Or could we just do a semester tutorial to teach the mechanics of a research paper. Is that a bad idea? Or could I teach the research component through a paper or two in history and let her English coursework be more in line with what she wants to write? I know she needs the skills. I just want to know how much latitude there is on where and how it gets taught. In other words, would a 4 year English plan seem lacking if Advanced Comp was not listed as a course, assuming the skills were taught in other ways? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhome Posted November 26, 2014 Author Share Posted November 26, 2014 As far as I know there isn't a firm X books and Y essays answer. It goes more by hours involved. Check out the sticky by Lori D for great info on those. :) Ok, I'll take a look. I envy the confidence of all you BTDT high school folks. I love the choices dd will have in homeschool but the responsibility and pressure I feel to get it right is overwhelming at the moment. Middle school seemed so much easier! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 I agree. I remember those papers well. I'll definitely work in the skills related to research papers. I was just wondering if an English credit requires year long coursework devoted to this type of writing, like I've seen in Advanced Composition course descriptions. Or could we just do a semester tutorial to teach the mechanics of a research paper. Is that a bad idea? Or could I teach the research component through a paper or two in history and let her English coursework be more in line with what she wants to write? I know she needs the skills. I just want to know how much latitude there is on where and how it gets taught. In other words, would a 4 year English plan seem lacking if Advanced Comp was not listed as a course, assuming the skills were taught in other ways? It is your homeschool. There are no transcript police. Colleges will want to see some kind of English credit, but usually do not examine in detail what exactly went on in your course - even if you provide course descriptions, they will most likely only give a subject like English a cursory glance and might look more closely at the descriptions for courses with unusual titles. It does not matter how the skill gets taught. It make a lot of sense to teach composition skills in connotation with a content subject. "Advanced Comp" does not need to be listed - often the transcript contains just bland sounding titles like "English 9, 10, 11 and 12". I do not teach grammar; I expect a high school student to be proficient in language mechanics. I do not teach vocabulary; I believe that a rich vocabulary is best developed through many years of reading widely. We did English integrated with history in 9th and 10th grade, for Ancients through Renaissance. We read the great books, listened to lectures about them, wrote about them. Often, it was impossible to say which activity belonged to history and which belonged to English - we did enough work for two credits and I gave one in history and one in English. In 11th grade, DD unschooled English. She discovered an interest in certain periods and authors, read copiously, and wrote - gasp - only at her discretion, what she wanted. She'd discuss literature in blog posts and have long written discourses with partners online. Totally on traditional In 12th grade, she took two literature courses at the university, one about Shakespeare and another about Fantasy Literature. So, her transcript looks unusual, and there is no "composition" course. In fact, she never completed a "writing program" of any kind. She got into great colleges, some extremely selective ones, nobody questioned her transcript - and all her college instructors praise her writing. Whatever she did worked fabulously well. So, if you have a strong writer with a natural talent, you can follow an unorthodox path and simply let her ... write. The important thing is that your DD spends time reading and writing. You have a lot of freedom how you want to accomplish this. At the end, I'd take a look and see how you best "package" what she did so the transcript shows her in the best light. With a student who has a natural inclination towards, and an interest in, English, I would not worry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 I guess I look at this a little differently. My answers are yes, she needs literature and writing each year to make an English credit. However, my kids have never done a research paper in ENGLISH class. Research papers have been part of history, science, and some elective classes, but never English. In English the read literature, poems, plays, short stories, non-fiction, essays, etc. They write in response to what they read. Some of that comes in the form of writing a poem, short story or play in the genre which they have just read, some comes in analyzing what they read. There is a great deal of latitude my mind about what can make an English credit for high school. You asked about reading Shakespeare and playwriting; Lightning Literature (not my favorite in general) offers a couple of semester long courses in Shakespeare which could be supplemented with a little playwriting (LL is weak in its writing) to make a very nice English credit. You don't have to stick with four years of literature tied to history. Certainly, you can be more flexible and let her find things that ignite her passion. You can also add creative writing on top of the standard English classes. That is what we did for my ds who wants to be a writer. He has something like 8 English credits. He had a creative writing class in addition to English every year. He took some online creative writing classes, did OYAN, NaNoWriMo, everything we could swing because that was the passion. We just used it as electives and kept the standard English credit in there too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhome Posted November 26, 2014 Author Share Posted November 26, 2014 It is your homeschool. There are no transcript police. Colleges will want to see some kind of English credit, but usually do not examine in detail what exactly went on in your course - even if you provide course descriptions, they will most likely only give a subject like English a cursory glance and might look more closely at the descriptions for courses with unusual titles. It does not matter how the skill gets taught. It make a lot of sense to teach composition skills in connotation with a content subject. "Advanced Comp" does not need to be listed - often the transcript contains just bland sounding titles like "English 9, 10, 11 and 12". I do not teach grammar; I expect a high school student to be proficient in language mechanics. I do not teach vocabulary; I believe that a rich vocabulary is best developed through many years of reading widely. We did English integrated with history in 9th and 10th grade, for Ancients through Renaissance. We read the great books, listened to lectures about them, wrote about them. Often, it was impossible to say which activity belonged to history and which belonged to English - we did enough work for two credits and I gave one in history and one in English. In 11th grade, DD unschooled English. She discovered an interest in certain periods and authors, read copiously, and wrote - gasp - only at her discretion, what she wanted. She'd discuss literature in blog posts and have long written discourses with partners online. Totally on traditional In 12th grade, she took two literature courses at the university, one about Shakespeare and another about Fantasy Literature. So, her transcript looks unusual, and there is no "composition" course. In fact, she never completed a "writing program" of any kind. She got into great colleges, some extremely selective ones, nobody questioned her transcript - and all her college instructors praise her writing. Whatever she did worked fabulously well. So, if you have a strong writer with a natural talent, you can follow an unorthodox path and simply let her ... write. The important thing is that your DD spends time reading and writing. You have a lot of freedom how you want to accomplish this. At the end, I'd take a look and see how you best "package" what she did so the transcript shows her in the best light. With a student who has a natural inclination towards, and an interest in, English, I would not worry. Thank you, thank you Regentrude. Your daughter's path looks more like what I had envisioned for mine. I am so encouraged to see that creativity and passion paid off for her. That is what I am trying to accomplish for my girl, hence this thread. There are so many great ideas in here. Thank you, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhome Posted November 26, 2014 Author Share Posted November 26, 2014 I guess I look at this a little differently. My answers are yes, she needs literature and writing each year to make an English credit. However, my kids have never done a research paper in ENGLISH class. Research papers have been part of history, science, and some elective classes, but never English. In English the read literature, poems, plays, short stories, non-fiction, essays, etc. They write in response to what they read. Some of that comes in the form of writing a poem, short story or play in the genre which they have just read, some comes in analyzing what they read. There is a great deal of latitude my mind about what can make an English credit for high school. You asked about reading Shakespeare and playwriting; Lightning Literature (not my favorite in general) offers a couple of semester long courses in Shakespeare which could be supplemented with a little playwriting (LL is weak in its writing) to make a very nice English credit. You don't have to stick with four years of literature tied to history. Certainly, you can be more flexible and let her find things that ignite her passion. You can also add creative writing on top of the standard English classes. That is what we did for my ds who wants to be a writer. He has something like 8 English credits. He had a creative writing class in addition to English every year. He took some online creative writing classes, did OYAN, NaNoWriMo, everything we could swing because that was the passion. We just used it as electives and kept the standard English credit in there too. I saw your post on my other thread on OYAN. Thanks for that too. I think I see what you're saying. She did NaNoWriMo for the first time this month. She loved it so that's probably going to be an annual thing. Do you assign partial credit for that? I like the LL idea and yes, I'd have to supplement quite a bit. We tried 7 last year and it quickly turned into a reading list😳. Lots to think about here. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Just to toss out a couple thoughts. Good vivid, understandable writing is very powerful, whether it is fictional literary writing or non fiction analytical or persuasive writing. I would encourage young writers to spend time on both fiction and non fiction writing. I do think a student should be able to write a long paper defending an argument on a topic they have read widely on. This can be a history paper or something in science or English. The two AP courses have some big differences. The English Language and Composition course is mostly non fiction essays. The English Literature and Composition course is more fiction literature. I've seen some schools that seem to really specialize the courses to dig into American, British or world writers. One school even used writings on science and nature. But it's worth looking into the courses some. Also some colleges will give six total credits (two courses worth) for scores in both exams. Some schools apply either test to the same college course, but only one semester worth. This is one of the many check the college policy topics where there's no uniform answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 I saw your post on my other thread on OYAN. Thanks for that too. I think I see what you're saying. She did NaNoWriMo for the first time this month. She loved it so that's probably going to be an annual thing. Do you assign partial credit for that? I like the LL idea and yes, I'd have to supplement quite a bit. We tried 7 last year and it quickly turned into a reading list😳. Lots to think about here. Thanks. We roll NaNoWriMo, OYAN and all other creative writing into one creative writing credit each year. He did a couple BraveWriter creative writing classes (way too basic), an Ed2Go class, a MOOC (I can't even remember which one or what class now). He takes November off from OYAN for NaNoWriMo (one novel at a time). We just roll all of those things, however many come together each year into one credit. It is really a credit plus lots of extra curricular because of the passion, but it all works. To me, those things are outside of the normal English credit. I really do think literature is important for a want-to-be author. Also, having to write a variety of non-fiction stretches him and broadens his skills. It also prepares him for college where he will have to take classes other than creative writing even for a writing major :). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine State Sue Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 I would suggest that you email some potential college admission's officers. (is that the right way to say it and punctuate it?) I have found them very helpful for out of the box ideas. Not nearly as out of the box as your example, but Ds's first 3 credits of HS English were: 9th grade - typical English class at home 10th grade - online HS Composition class 11th grade - Composition 1 at CC The CC does not offer many IRL Lit classes, but they offer many IRL Comp classes. I wasn't sure how favorably colleges would look upon a transcript with 1 year of typical English and 3 years of Composition. I contacted several (private, public, large, small) and asked. Not one of them cared. I had a hard time with it anyway, which is why ds took American Lit online. FWIW, my ds really needed the extra writing instruction. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhome Posted November 27, 2014 Author Share Posted November 27, 2014 We roll NaNoWriMo, OYAN and all other creative writing into one creative writing credit each year. He did a couple BraveWriter creative writing classes (way too basic), an Ed2Go class, a MOOC (I can't even remember which one or what class now). He takes November off from OYAN for NaNoWriMo (one novel at a time). We just roll all of those things, however many come together each year into one credit. It is really a credit plus lots of extra curricular because of the passion, but it all works. To me, those things are outside of the normal English credit. I really do think literature is important for a want-to-be author. Also, having to write a variety of non-fiction stretches him and broadens his skills. It also prepares him for college where he will have to take classes other than creative writing even for a writing major :). Ok, I see. That makes it easier. She loves lit so that will be an easy part of the plan. She's doing LTOW this year, and the freedom to pick topics is making her non-fiction writing grow quite a bit. I see in your signature that you've chosen Blue Tent. What did you think of that course for a natural writer? I think that will be mostly fiction writing right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhome Posted November 27, 2014 Author Share Posted November 27, 2014 I would suggest that you email some potential college admission's officers. (is that the right way to say it and punctuate it?) I have found them very helpful for out of the box ideas. Not nearly as out of the box as your example, but Ds's first 3 credits of HS English were: 9th grade - typical English class at home 10th grade - online HS Composition class 11th grade - Composition 1 at CC The CC does not offer many IRL Lit classes, but they offer many IRL Comp classes. I wasn't sure how favorably colleges would look upon a transcript with 1 year of typical English and 3 years of Composition. I contacted several (private, public, large, small) and asked. Not one of them cared. I had a hard time with it anyway, which is why ds took American Lit online. FWIW, my ds really needed the extra writing instruction. Good luck! That's a great idea Sue. We are starting to compile a (long for now) list of colleges that might work for her. It encompasses everything from small LACs to film schools to performing arts schools. I can certainly contact one from each group and start to understand what English content they're looking for. This will be particularly important for dd because she is a self described "storyteller," but she has not decided "how" she will tell her stories: film, screenplays, magazines, novels, blog??? So, depending on how she narrows/changes things over time, uniquely packaging her coursework will become an interesting task. Knowing what each type of school expects will provide a basic template. Also, I live in envy of the new dancing sun in your sig. I think I can, I think I can, I think I can...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom22ns Posted November 27, 2014 Share Posted November 27, 2014 Ok, I see. That makes it easier. She loves lit so that will be an easy part of the plan. She's doing LTOW this year, and the freedom to pick topics is making her non-fiction writing grow quite a bit. I see in your signature that you've chosen Blue Tent. What did you think of that course for a natural writer? I think that will be mostly fiction writing right? Blue Tent is my youngest, science kids. She spends a lot of time on the class. As a parent, I really have no view for what she is doing or how she is doing as there is no parent login provided. I don't think of it is a lot of fiction writing. They did do some poems, then an epic after Beowulf though. I'm not in love with it like I am the PA Homeschoolers AP English class my oldest is taking. However she just took the Compass test at the CC and got a 97/100 on the writing section and said it was because of the Blue Tent class. I love, love, love Maya Inspektor's AP English through PA Homeschoolers. The class is non-fiction reading and writing based, but it has really expanded ds's thinking and writing. She is terrific and I really like the PA homeschooler interface where the parents get a login so you can see exactly what the assignments are and how your kids are doing. Great experience from all sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckymama Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 I just use dd's login for Blue Tent Online :) Easy peasy Some of the writing assignments are more creative than others, but they all focus on exploring literary techniques. Dd is not a natural writer (unlike her older sister). She has stopped crying over the writing assignments so I call it a success ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kareni Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 What is required for an English credit? Do you need separate literature, writing and grammar every year? I believe that your child needs to cover literature and writing in high school but not necessarily in each class/year. Here is what my daughter did throughout her high school years: 9th: World Literature from 1700 to 2000 (0.5 credits) Literature: Fantasy (0.5 credits) Literature: Greek Plays (0.25 credits) 10th: College Preparatory Essay Writing (0.5 credits) Literature: Middle English (0.25 credits) 11th: WR 121: Comp. - Intro. to Argument (0.5 credits) WR 122: Comp. - Style and Argument (0.5 credits) ENG 109: Survey of World Literature (0.5 credits) 12th: ENG 215: Latino/a Literature (0.5 credits) ENG 250: Intro. to Folklore & Mythology (0.5 credits) WR 123: Composition - Research (0.5 credits) Some of these were done at home, others at a homeschooling resource center and still others at the local community college. As you can see, some of my daughter's years were heavier in Literature, others were heavier in writing (and one year only had 0.75 credits while another year had 1.25 credits). Had my daughter taken one whole year of literature or of writing, it would not have bothered me. Regards, Kareni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhome Posted December 3, 2014 Author Share Posted December 3, 2014 Blue Tent is my youngest, science kids. She spends a lot of time on the class. As a parent, I really have no view for what she is doing or how she is doing as there is no parent login provided. I don't think of it is a lot of fiction writing. They did do some poems, then an epic after Beowulf though. I'm not in love with it like I am the PA Homeschoolers AP English class my oldest is taking. However she just took the Compass test at the CC and got a 97/100 on the writing section and said it was because of the Blue Tent class. I love, love, love Maya Inspektor's AP English through PA Homeschoolers. The class is non-fiction reading and writing based, but it has really expanded ds's thinking and writing. She is terrific and I really like the PA homeschooler interface where the parents get a login so you can see exactly what the assignments are and how your kids are doing. Great experience from all sides. We are looking at Blue Tent 1 and 2 followed by PA Homeschoolers APs as one track to consider. Is Blue Tent enough prep? I've never seen the Compass test so I'm most sure how that compares to an AP. Another concern about Blue Tent is the asynchronous format. I'd love to see what natural writers think about it as opposed to science leaning kids. Does the format even matter if the content is engaging and challenging, which I understand BT is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhome Posted December 3, 2014 Author Share Posted December 3, 2014 I believe that your child needs to cover literature and writing in high school but not necessarily in each class/year. Here is what my daughter did throughout her high school years: 9th: World Literature from 1700 to 2000 (0.5 credits) Literature: Fantasy (0.5 credits) Literature: Greek Plays (0.25 credits) 10th: College Preparatory Essay Writing (0.5 credits) Literature: Middle English (0.25 credits) 11th: WR 121: Comp. - Intro. to Argument (0.5 credits) WR 122: Comp. - Style and Argument (0.5 credits) ENG 109: Survey of World Literature (0.5 credits) 12th: ENG 215: Latino/a Literature (0.5 credits) ENG 250: Intro. to Folklore & Mythology (0.5 credits) WR 123: Composition - Research (0.5 credits) Some of these were done at home, others at a homeschooling resource center and still others at the local community college. As you can see, some of my daughter's years were heavier in Literature, others were heavier in writing (and one year only had 0.75 credits while another year had 1.25 credits). Had my daughter taken one whole year of literature or of writing, it would not have bothered me. Regards, Kareni Thanks for this Kareni. This really helps me see the big picture. This is exactly what I was asking. My daughter would love entire lit semesters with comp/research added on a semester only basis throughout. Would you mind if I ask what your DD is looking to study in college? DD's possible prospective colleges state "4 English credits" as a minimum requirement and I'm trying to shed my "box checker" mentality and see how we can fill the requirement in a way that suits her interests. As I stated up thread, I just want to make sure I'm not getting "too creative." Your DD's path gives me hope that I may be on the right track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhome Posted December 3, 2014 Author Share Posted December 3, 2014 I just use dd's login for Blue Tent Online :) Easy peasy Some of the writing assignments are more creative than others, but they all focus on exploring literary techniques. Dd is not a natural writer (unlike her older sister). She has stopped crying over the writing assignments so I call it a success ;) Oh, that's a good idea. Question Luckymama, did your natural writer daughter take this class? Did she or would she have liked it? If not, what did her English track look like? This Dd is a natural writer, and I'm getting inspired by the paths others have outlined on this thread. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckymama Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Oh, that's a good idea. Question Luckymama, did your natural writer daughter take this class? Did she or would she have liked it? If not, what did her English track look like? This Dd is a natural writer, and I'm getting inspired by the paths others have outlined on this thread. Thanks. Older dd was not homeschooled--sorry! Younger dd is reading just about the same works (books, short stories, plays, poems) that her older sister did. The number of writing assignments is similar as well. However, younger dd's 8th grade (Blue Tent 1) was equivalent to older dd's 9th grade and her current 9th grade (Blue Tent 2) is equivalent to older dd's 10th grade. Older dd moved into a very rigorous Brit Lit class (and took the AP English Language and Composition exam) for 11th grade. In 12th grade she took AP English Literature and an elective Creative and Critical Writing course. She's now a double English-French major :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kareni Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Thanks for this Kareni. This really helps me see the big picture. This is exactly what I was asking. My daughter would love entire lit semesters with comp/research added on a semester only basis throughout. Would you mind if I ask what your DD is looking to study in college? My daughter has already graduated from college. She majored in Latin and minored in Geology at a somewhat selective liberal arts college. She applied to ten colleges was accepted at eight, wait-listed by the ninth, and denied by the tenth (an Ivy League school); I don't believe that her English path in high school weighed against her. Best wishes to your daughter (and to you) as you navigate the high school years! Regards, Kareni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhome Posted December 4, 2014 Author Share Posted December 4, 2014 My daughter has already graduated from college. She majored in Latin and minored in Geology at a somewhat selective liberal arts college. She applied to ten colleges was accepted at eight, wait-listed by the ninth, and denied by the tenth (an Ivy League school); I don't believe that her English path in high school weighed against her. Best wishes to your daughter (and to you) as you naviagate the high school years! Regards, Kareni Thank you Kareni. Stories like this are very encouraging. I am so very grateful for the wisdom on this board. Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbridgeacademy Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 FYI- I don't have a H.S. student yet but I thought I'd give my 2 cents worth anyway. Thanks Kiana. I see your point on research papers. I want to keep her options open and still give her room for interest led courses. Kwim? It just seems that with all the "requirements" of HS English, she won't have the time to really pursue the writing she wants to do. I guess I'm trying to figure out how to follow her lead and still be able to count it as legitimate credit.I definitely don't want to cut corners and I'm not trying to play games on a transcript. I'm seriously wondering about the limits of creativity we have as homeschoolers. Do you have to have Lit and Comp every year to count it? Or could you do Shakespeare Lit with a screenwriting class instead? So with the understanding that a H.S. English credit should include Literature, Composition, and Grammar, I think you still have a lot of flexibility. Shakespeare Lit and a Screenwriting course with a couple weeks of grammar review thrown in would IMO be a full English credit as long as the student spends about 130+ hours in actual instruction/class time. Doing 1 semester on say a specific genre (Science fiction, the 18th century, A-American writers, Brit Lit) followed by a creative writing class at CC would be perfectly fine too. She does need to learn research writing as well as all the other types of writing. I can't count how many research papers I wrote in college for history, or the expository type papers/short response I had to do for Science classes. Just gear her non-fiction reading (biographies of famous writers) and writing toward her interests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhome Posted December 10, 2014 Author Share Posted December 10, 2014 FYI- I don't have a H.S. student yet but I thought I'd give my 2 cents worth anyway. So with the understanding that a H.S. English credit should include Literature, Composition, and Grammar, I think you still have a lot of flexibility. Shakespeare Lit and a Screenwriting course with a couple weeks of grammar review thrown in would IMO be a full English credit as long as the student spends about 130+ hours in actual instruction/class time. Doing 1 semester on say a specific genre (Science fiction, the 18th century, A-American writers, Brit Lit) followed by a creative writing class at CC would be perfectly fine too. She does need to learn research writing as well as all the other types of writing. I can't count how many research papers I wrote in college for history, or the expository type papers/short response I had to do for Science classes. Just gear her non-fiction reading (biographies of famous writers) and writing toward her interests. I love the idea of gearing non-fiction to her interests. She has many non-fiction interests and writing about any of them could get the "research paper" job done. Thanks for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhome Posted December 10, 2014 Author Share Posted December 10, 2014 Just to toss out a couple thoughts. Good vivid, understandable writing is very powerful, whether it is fictional literary writing or non fiction analytical or persuasive writing. I would encourage young writers to spend time on both fiction and non fiction writing. I do think a student should be able to write a long paper defending an argument on a topic they have read widely on. This can be a history paper or something in science or English. The two AP courses have some big differences. The English Language and Composition course is mostly non fiction essays. The English Literature and Composition course is more fiction literature. I've seen some schools that seem to really specialize the courses to dig into American, British or world writers. One school even used writings on science and nature. But it's worth looking into the courses some. Also some colleges will give six total credits (two courses worth) for scores in both exams. Some schools apply either test to the same college course, but only one semester worth. This is one of the many check the college policy topics where there's no uniform answer. Sebastian, I don't know how I missed your post. I try to respond to everyone who helps me out. Sorry about that. Thanks for outlining the difference between the two APs. She will probably wait until junior year (I think) so we'll have time to decide which one. It's also interesting to know that some colleges will award six credits. I'll look into that. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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