Apologia Botony

[Coco_Clark]

Last thread about Botony, I promise  :blush: 

 

I'm hesitant to use Apologia, though the only one I've looked through is the Astronomy.  I am not a young-earther so obviously that one rankled.

But they are one of the very, very, few Botony options I'm finding and pulling together my own Botony course looks like it might be hard.  Our library is a little dry in that area.  So Apologia is looking better and better.  I'm wondering how much their slant will matter in this subject.  I am a Christian, so mentioning God or God's creation won't bother me.  But I do want my science spine to be, well, science.  

Any experience with this book?
 

[SorrelZG]

I haven't used it yet but flipping through I see it starts pretty early with a bit on Genesis and the day of creation but it seems brief. After that I didnt notice anything for a bit and was about to give up flipping through when I landed on a section entitled "Creation Confirmation", the wording of which would no doubt rankle ("Did you know that some people actually believe..."). I actually am on the other side of the subject than you but .. I don't really like the way it's talked about either.

 

I expect there are others with better info but your post reminded me that I have been long intending to get the book down off my shelf to check out. And I also felt obligated to say something after accidently liking and unliking your post with my clumsy thumb while zooming and scrolling on my ipad. :P

[Elisabet1]

There is plenty of science in that book. Some people are bothered if they see God mentioned at all. If that bothers you, this program won't work. 

[Penelope]

The elementary Apologia books can be a little much for K and first grade. You will have to judge based on your kids.

 

Based on your signature, you'd be reading it aloud, so you could edit the parts that bother you. But it's more than just mentioning God and the creation every now and then. The books are exceptionally wordy, and there are comments throughout every chapter. Whether you appreciate that, or are fine just editing, or whether it drives you completely crazy and makes the books unuseable obviously varies a lot among homeschoolers, even Christians.

[serendipitous journey]

I really liked their botany.  It is wonderful botany. 

 

If you are willing to gloss the bits you don't agree with, and esp. if you get the experiment kit that Nature's Workshop makes (Rainbow Resource sells it) I think you may like it.  There are "creation confirmations" that are incredibly unscientific -- most particularly, they represent as "evolution" ideas that no evolutionary biologist actually holds, not through deliberate obfuscation but clearly because the authors have never studied evolutionary biology; also, you miss some of the evolutionary thrust of biology, such as the idea that ferns are older than seed-bearing plants, which evolved later.  But I don't think that's a big thing in elementary. 

 

That said in the end it drove me nuts and we dropped it.  :)  still the best biology I've seen in many ways ... for next go 'round with olders, consider McHenry's botany; we have it in our sights for 5th ...

[cbollin]

agreeing with others...  there are parts of the creation confirmination sections that are unpleasant to read. I lean more young earth and found those parts as rude and did not read it out loud word for word because of that.  A few other sections irked me on the logic on something.  It wasn't huge, and was easy to reword when needed.  and level of the book will need adjusting for the ages you have. although book can be used with a range of ages/grade levels, I think that book works best when you have at least one student in 4th-6th.. maybe 3rd, and then youngers tagging along.  So if you keep that mind, and teach from the book, and use projects and photos..  it can be done.  be ready to alter wordings as needed.  be ready to scale down text.  enjoy the natue journaling and experiments.

[Coco_Clark]

Thanks.

 

So far I'm thinking Ill use this with the knowledge that I'll have to scale down/edit out. A spine that needs tweaking is better than no spine at all.

 

Zoology, astronomy, and anatomy were a cake to plan, so I'm a little flustered that my options for Botony are apologia, sassafras, or write it myself with the very little available at the library. I suppose this is why TWTM gives the subject a scant few weeks. No resources.

[blue plaid]

I tried Apologia botany a couple of years ago with my then 1st and 2nd graders. We only lasted a few days; my kids were definitely not interested (they probably were too young), but honestly I like science and found it pretty boring as well (perhaps it was the writing style which did me in.)

[....]

We did Apologia Botany a few years ago.  I think my kids were 4th and 3rd grade.  It really goes in depth.  I think 4th-5th grade is probably a good target for that book.  But for younger kids...there are some great experiments in there.  We did the flower dissection several times.  The moss demonstration was great.  I don't remember a ton of young Earth or whatever it's called stuff in there.  I have a degree in biological sciences (and I don't even want to guess how old the earth is) and I've been able to use Flying Creatures, Swimming Creatures, Land Animals, Botany and Anatomy & Physiology without a problem.  I DO skip over stuff that I think is just not relevant info for my kids.  You could skip over the Creation Confirmation sections.  Some of the arguments in the zoology books have actually been pretty interesting, even if I don't agree with them.  Some of the books have more of that stuff than others and I think Botany and Anatomy/Physiology were very light on that.

 

I may be using Botany next year with a 5th grader.  She's finishing up the zoology series this year, but I'm not sure if she's interested in plants.  I'll have to see if she wants to do Botany together.

[serendipitous journey]

We did Apologia Botany a few years ago.  I think my kids were 4th and 3rd grade.  It really goes in depth.  I think 4th-5th grade is probably a good target for that book.  But for younger kids...there are some great experiments in there.  We did the flower dissection several times.  The moss demonstration was great.  I don't remember a ton of young Earth or whatever it's called stuff in there.  I have a degree in biological sciences (and I don't even want to guess how old the earth is) and I've been able to use Flying Creatures, Swimming Creatures, Land Animals, Botany and Anatomy & Physiology without a problem.  I DO skip over stuff that I think is just not relevant info for my kids.  You could skip over the Creation Confirmation sections.  Some of the arguments in the zoology books have actually been pretty interesting, even if I don't agree with them.  Some of the books have more of that stuff than others and I think Botany and Anatomy/Physiology were very light on that.

 

I may be using Botany next year with a 5th grader.  She's finishing up the zoology series this year, but I'm not sure if she's interested in plants.  I'll have to see if she wants to do Botany together.

 

Evanthe, on reading your post and reflecting, I wanted to mention a few points about Apologia's elementary materials that seem important for Christian parents especially.  Again, I do find the materials have a wealth of information and a sophistication not seen in other elementary science (Bernoulli's principle explained, anyone?), and the hands-on elements are engaging and open-and-go with the excellent kits available from Nature's Workshop. 

 

My greatest concern with Apologia's material is theological.  The books seem to teach that the Lord's presence in, and actions through, nature are testable and measurable -- that the natural world conforms to a particular reading of the Bible and that this is material evidence of the presence of the Lord in our lives and the truth of the Scriptures.  There are two obvious dangers here.  One, there is the danger of idolatry: of substituting a trust and faith in a living Lord with a trust and faith something material, namely an interpretation of the Bible and an understanding of the natural world.  A second danger, probably more immediate in the minds of Christians who accept a literal view of the Bible, is that a child's faith in the Lord comes to be confounded with the child's knowledge of the physical world and dependent upon it.  We may raise a child who believes that if evolution is a physical truth, that is evidence against the Christian concept of the Lord, and whose faith in things eternal relies on a belief in things transient and fallible. 

 

This last is not a hypothetical concern, it is a real problem.  Adults are losing their faith when they come to believe that evolution is scientifically valid.   There are many Christians who are also scientists and believe that evolution is a natural reality, Christians quite conservative in their general beliefs -- the Veritas Forum is one source of videos &c of debates between such Christians [entirely Protestant, in the discussions I've watched so far] and secular academics. 

 

Second, Apologia writers simply do not understand evolutionary theory, or chemical/material science behind the theory of an ancient universe, even at a basic level.  So the Creation Confirmations refute positions that no competent scientist holds.  Again, a danger to someone who expects that the evolutionary/old earth positions are patently ridiculous. 

 

Finally, Apologia speaks very insultingly of scientists and continually implies that they are deliberately trying to disguise and hide religious and material truth.  This is an ugly, irresponsible position to take.  I am disappointed that they demonize the scientific community in this way.  The vast majority of scientists are actually trying to figure out what's going on in the world. 

 

So I disagree that the material is largely harmless, and  I am grateful for the opportunity to mention these concerns. 

 

ETA: I can't spend more time on this issue today, or this weekend, but will respond promptly to PMs and will come back next week.   Again, I am very glad of the opportunity to discuss these issues and to see the variety of interpretations in our community here, and I do not believe that every one should think as I do, but that it is valuable for us to share the truth that we see. 

[....]

Evanthe, on reading your post and reflecting, I wanted to mention a few points about Apologia's elementary materials that seem important for Christian parents especially.  

 

Really, it's fine.  Most of the Apologia reviews on this forum are negative, so I wanted to add that I have been able to use them without much of a problem.

 

As always, the best thing is to just go to the homeschool store and look at them in person.  I wish there were more secular science textbooks out there for homeschoolers, but there isn't.  *shrug* 

[MiMi 4under3]

Hmmm. This thread is making me second-guess my curriculum choice. I just ordered Apologia's Botany and we are not Christian.

 

I usually gloss over or skip stuff I don't agree with or I explain the differing beliefs to my kids. No problem.

 

I've never had an issue before, but I've also never used Apologia before, either - but I have used other Christian currics... Hmmm...

 

 

 

I've never heard of McHenry's until this thread today. Maybe we'd be better off with that?

 

[....]

Hmmm. This thread is making me second-guess my curriculum choice. I just ordered Apologia's Botany and we are not Christian.

 

I've never heard of McHenry's until this thread today. Maybe we'd be better off with that?

 

You might have a hard time with Apologia if you're not Christian.  Have you looked through the book, yet (or is it on its way)?  Although, of all the Apologia elementary books, the botany seemed to have the least amount of religious content (IMO).  

 

Ellen McHenry is awesome.  We've used a couple of her programs - chemistry and Mapping the World with Art.  Great customer service and her stuff is very creative and hands-on.  We love EM here.   :001_wub:   

 

Edited to add:  You mentioned explaining differing beliefs to your kids.  We're the same way.  We are just constantly discussing stuff.  It's exhausting.  I think my tweens could get jobs as professional debaters/negotiators.  I guess it's that logic stage thing.