Preparation for Monday re: Algebra1 issues

[LisaKinVA]

First...this is for another child, not my own.  I'm simply looking to you guys to help me make sure I'm looking at this objectively and from the right angles.

 

Background:  Female 9th grade student.  Has moved around and been in various curricula including: Everyday Math (5-6), Math-U-See (Pre-Algebra) and now, Algebra 1 (Saxon).  Math has been a struggle since middle school (grades 5/6).  Did not do well on the placement test for Saxon Algebra 1, but mistakes made seem to be careless in nature vs. lack of understanding (teachers and tutors have all said this, as well).

 

 

I'm meeting with the student on Monday.  I've asked her to bring: text, graph paper, colored pencils and regular pencil and a timer.  Before we start, I want to talk to her (get where she's coming from, what she thinks about math, what her goals are, etc.).  I'm well aware that it could be a phase, there could be underlying skills that are lacking, or it could be a mis-match of the curriculum to student.  This is what I'm trying to nail down.  I'm also considering skipping to a chapter test to see how she does there (vs. an individual lesson)  FWIW, I'm doing this as a favor.  There is nothing in it for me.  Mom is stressed out.  I'm trying to come in and help with strategies.

 

So my basic questions are:

 

1) If you were looking for strategies to reduce simple errors, would you suggest something other than what I've listed above?

2) If you suspected a mis-match between the curriculum and the student, would you bring a sample lesson from a different text (I own TT Algebra 1, Life of Fred and Foerster's)?

3) If you suspected a problem with underlying skills, is there something different you would do (other than looking at her work thus far)?

 

The student says the problem is she just "didn't think," or when she is shown how to do a problem she misses, she says, "OH!" -- I have children who don't really like to fail, and don't like to admit they don't understand something.  So, they have said things like this before to deflect.  

 

Thank you.

 

Lisa

 

 

 

 

 

[LisaKinVA]

I would suspect an underlying skills problem. I would pull out a placement exam and have her work that on the whiteboard.

 

I would show her Foersters if she enjoys the verbal approach, Dolciani if she is visual.

 

This was my suspicion as well...mainly due to timing of the beginning struggle, placement test, and prior curriculua.  I'll bring my whiteboard, as I don't think the library has one we can use.  I'll print out a placement test as well (I already know she bombed the Saxon one...so I'll use something different).  

[Lanny]

She may need to back up and repeat Pre Algebra or possibly even before that? If she has been struggling since 5th or 6th grade, her underlying understanding of basic arithmetic may be extremely weak.    Some Amazon Sellers will ship books to APO/FPO addresses. 

[Starr]

Who is going to work with her this year? If she's pretty much on her own I would look at TT.

[LisaKinVA]

My gut says there is an issue with the underlying skills. I think we are all pretty much in agreement. However, I need more than my gut (because so many people have already said the problem isn't understanding, it's a willingness to do think through the work and do it properly). I've got to be objective, though. That's why I want to start out by talking to her about math. How she feels about it, if she's ever enjoyed it, what changed...and then, what her goals are with school I feel like if I start out by having THAT conversation it will give me a clue to how she's thinking...how she perceives herself in relation to math, etc.

 

I have a few solid math programs I could back her up into, if that's an issue. I have ChalkDust Basic Math, Saxon 1/2, TT Pre-Algebra/Algebra 1; LoF, AoPS (but I don't think AoPS is in the cards)...I also have Abeka Basic Math I/II and Pre-Algebra. I could meet with her twice a week -- but she'd be with her mom the rest of the time. We can get Lial's to ship here (I've ordered Lial's Intermediate Algebra while we were here). My experience with Dolciani is non-existent. My experience with Lial's is very limited. I also thought about Math Mammoth (the new series) and focus on concepts where she's weak, or maybe Alex. I also have Math-It and Math-It Advanced. That is all based upon this being a skills issue.

 

If it's NOT a skills issue -- my feeling is that the colored pencils and graph paper should pretty much solve it (other than the general, "I just don't wanna" attitude, which is a discipline thing).

[kiana]

Is this just a one-time thing, or will you be tutoring on an ongoing basis?

[LisaKinVA]

Is this just a one-time thing, or will you be tutoring on an ongoing basis?

 

I may be meeting with her every Tuesday & Thursday.  It really depends upon what I see & how much help is necessary.  If it's underlying skills, mom and I will work out a strategy to "catch her up" and move forward from there.  Honestly, we won't know until I can see what is going on.

[kiana]

I think going from MUS pre-algebra to Saxon alg 1 might be too challenging for most students. MUS is very much on the light side and Saxon is not.

 

Given that math has been a struggle since middle school, I would suspect that there are holes in math from 4th-5th grade that did not show up at the time but have compounded in future years. I might be wrong and it might just be a carelessness and I don't wanna issue, but usually a struggle for that long indicates some lack of skills. 

 

I would definitely bring a placement test -- since you own TT, I think I'd bring that. Once you look at it, don't tell her WHAT is wrong -- but tell her "this problem is not right, can you try again?" -- if she can find the errors working more carefully, then I would suspect carelessness. If she cannot find the errors but can understand your explanation of the errors, then I would actually consider that a skills issue. 

 

[JanetC]

Close and careful grading of "careless errors", as in post #41 here.

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/520899-im-scared-not-to-use-saxon-with-questions/

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I might consider a multi step assessment of where she needs help. Back way up into pre algebra or earlier topics like fractions and decimals and percentage. How does she do with those? Can she translate word problems into the appropriate mathematical expression?

 

You might find underlying problems. You may also be able to start with where she is strong and move forward with some confidence.

 

Danica McKellar books might be a good fit. Good chance the base library has them.

[Reefgazer]

I would think the most likely problem is a lack of skills in some area. Like a PP suggested, this student may need to back up substantially if that's the case. So I would give her a placement test and see where she landed. But don't discount the fact she may have multiple issues; for example, a skills issue and not being well-matched to her current textbook. SO I would also bring several texts of different styles (same level), ask her to look through a lesson (similar lesson, if possible), and ask her which text she finds it easier to learn from.

[MamaSprout]

I would give her the Math Mammoth Grade 5 placement test. You might need to take the top off the page that says Grade 5. I've tutored several PreA students with MM 5, especially when I think skills are lacking. I even started one 14 year old with MM 1-3 fractions book. Math Mammoth works well printed to take home and on iPad Mini with a white board (I enlarge so there's only one problem visible at a time.)

 

HTH

[LisaKinVA]

Meeting with young lady and mom went well. There aren't any huge gaps, and what is there(algebraic applications to geometry) can be addressed as they go. Major suggestions wound up being:

 

Check and correct before moving to next lesson.

Show all work, including the starting point (copy the problem/formula)

Use colored pencils for signs

More space between problems, work on left side of paper only (work gets crowded, and distracting...too much in small space)

Mom can selectively reduce problems she consistently gets correct, and look for extra problems for areas of specific weakness.

Slow down the pace a little to rebuild confidence. Learn to take a break when hitting that wall of frustration.

Mom isn't to explain what is wrong, let daughter go back over it first, explaining how she arrived at her answer.

 

She was able to work problems fairly quickly and accurately with me, and I do think some of it is just a learning curve for working with Saxon. Thank you everyone!

[butterfly113]

Last year we discovered ds was making some careless mistakes and a couple of underlying skills were understood, but not SOLID. We went through the Key to book of whatever the skills that needed some more work. This helped him greatly. We also worked on sequencing and multiple task issues... such as bouncing a ball while saying the multiplications tables or spelling words, etc. WE also did some cross hemisphere work to make sure both sides were working well and simultaneously.

 

After some time, he was able to write out problems and show work more efficiently. HTH